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Posted: 2/5/2020 4:50:58 PM EDT
[#1]
I could be wrong but i think it really depends on where you live. Lake stevens PD has done 2 different ones in 24 hours for me at Sound loan also.
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Posted: 2/5/2020 5:34:07 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
This is the first time I had to deal with this crap. I ordered a Beretta ARX-100, had it sent to Sound Loan, did paper work...blah blah blah. I am now on workday 17 (23 days total) and still nothing. I called last week, and they assured me they would call when it was clear. I’ll call again. I have no reason to be delayed, background is spotless. What’s the deal? I just think about how my last form 1 a couple months ago was 13 days from start to finish. This is retarded, lol. |
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Posted: 2/5/2020 7:32:30 PM EDT
[#3]
RCW does allow dealer to deliver after business days. Up to dealer if they want to or not. LEO in my area will send me a delay and hold for 30 days right around the 10 day mark anyways, so i must be held by law.
I do not release firearm til response from LEO, my reasons: 1. No NICS number is provided to dealer until response. 2. No state protection for dealers in the event gun was release and then denied response is received after the 10 days. The only written protection against lawsuits on the books is for LEO. 3. LEO do not keep records of responses and can deny they ever received firearm transfer form in the event the denial is investigated 4. I have had a few transfers come back close to the 30 day mark and have a denied response. Its just not worth the headache for dealers, even if its a slim chance. All the dealers that I know in my area only release when response is received from LEO. I know the law is the law, but as we know that can be changed in a court ruling by a King county judge as we have witnessed recently with the $30 car tabs. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 12:35:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
RCW does allow dealer to deliver after business days. Up to dealer if they want to or not. LEO in my area will send me a delay and hold for 30 days right around the 10 day mark anyways, so i must be held by law. I do not release firearm til response from LEO, my reasons: 1. No NICS number is provided to dealer until response. 2. No state protection for dealers in the event gun was release and then denied response is received after the 10 days. The only written protection against lawsuits on the books is for LEO. 3. LEO do not keep records of responses and can deny they ever received firearm transfer form in the event the denial is investigated 4. I have had a few transfers come back close to the 30 day mark and have a denied response. Its just not worth the headache for dealers, even if its a slim chance. All the dealers that I know in my area only release when response is received from LEO. I know the law is the law, but as we know that can be changed in a court ruling by a King county judge as we have witnessed recently with the $30 car tabs. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 2:04:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are required by law to release after 10 business days. Please read and familiarize yourself with RCW 9.41.090, specifically 6(c): https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.090 Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are required by law to release after 10 business days. Please read and familiarize yourself with RCW 9.41.090, specifically 6(c): https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.090 RCW 9.41.090 Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery—Fees authorized. (Contingent expiration date.) (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until: (a) The dealer is notified in writing by (i) the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (ii) the state that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040, as provided in subsection (3)(b) of this section; or (b) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. (2) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a semiautomatic assault rifle to the purchaser thereof until: (a) The purchaser provides proof that he or she has completed a recognized firearm safety training program within the last five years that, at a minimum, includes instruction on: (i) Basic firearms safety rules; (ii) Firearms and children, including secure gun storage and talking to children about gun safety; (iii) Firearms and suicide prevention; (iv) Secure gun storage to prevent unauthorized access and use; (v) Safe handling of firearms; and (vi) State and federal firearms laws, including prohibited firearms transfers. The training must be sponsored by a federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, a college or university, a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training. The proof of training shall be in the form of a certification that states under the penalty of perjury the training included the minimum requirements; and (b) The dealer is notified in writing by (i) the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (ii) the state that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040, as provided in subsection (3)(b) of this section; or (c) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. Licensed dealer deliveries—Background checks. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter and except for semiautomatic assault rifles under subsection (2) of this section, a licensed dealer may not deliver any firearm to a purchaser or transferee until the earlier of: (a) The results of all required background checks are known and the purchaser or transferee (i) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal or state law and (ii) does not have a voluntary waiver of firearm rights currently in effect; or (b) Ten business days have elapsed from the date the licensed dealer requested the background check. However, for sales and transfers of pistols if the purchaser or transferee does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, then the time period in this subsection shall be extended from ten business days to sixty days. (2) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a licensed dealer may not deliver a semiautomatic assault rifle to a purchaser or transferee until ten business days have elapsed from the date of the purchase application or, in the case of a transfer, ten business days have elapsed from the date a background check is initiated. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 2:21:22 AM EDT
[#6]
I process transfers all around Snohomish County and none have been over 10 working days. Either you got a delay or a paperwork issue.
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Posted: 2/6/2020 10:42:32 AM EDT
[#7]
Haven't had a issue of waiting more than 10 business days.
Also these dealer is not required to release the firearm after those 10 business days. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 11:37:37 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"May/May not" not "Shall/Shall not". There is no requirement for a dealer to deliver after the 10th business day. They just can't deliver before the 10th business day. RCW 9.41.090RCW 9.41.092 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You are required by law to release after 10 business days. Please read and familiarize yourself with RCW 9.41.090, specifically 6(c): https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.090 RCW 9.41.090 Dealer deliveries regulated—Hold on delivery—Fees authorized. (Contingent expiration date.) (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until: (a) The dealer is notified in writing by (i) the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (ii) the state that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040, as provided in subsection (3)(b) of this section; or (b) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. (2) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a semiautomatic assault rifle to the purchaser thereof until: (a) The purchaser provides proof that he or she has completed a recognized firearm safety training program within the last five years that, at a minimum, includes instruction on: (i) Basic firearms safety rules; (ii) Firearms and children, including secure gun storage and talking to children about gun safety; (iii) Firearms and suicide prevention; (iv) Secure gun storage to prevent unauthorized access and use; (v) Safe handling of firearms; and (vi) State and federal firearms laws, including prohibited firearms transfers. The training must be sponsored by a federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, a college or university, a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training, or a firearms training school with instructors certified by a nationally recognized organization that customarily offers firearms training. The proof of training shall be in the form of a certification that states under the penalty of perjury the training included the minimum requirements; and (b) The dealer is notified in writing by (i) the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or (ii) the state that the purchaser is eligible to possess a firearm under RCW 9.41.040, as provided in subsection (3)(b) of this section; or (c) The requirements or time periods in RCW 9.41.092 have been satisfied. Licensed dealer deliveries—Background checks. (1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter and except for semiautomatic assault rifles under subsection (2) of this section, a licensed dealer may not deliver any firearm to a purchaser or transferee until the earlier of: (a) The results of all required background checks are known and the purchaser or transferee (i) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under federal or state law and (ii) does not have a voluntary waiver of firearm rights currently in effect; or (b) Ten business days have elapsed from the date the licensed dealer requested the background check. However, for sales and transfers of pistols if the purchaser or transferee does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, then the time period in this subsection shall be extended from ten business days to sixty days. (2) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a licensed dealer may not deliver a semiautomatic assault rifle to a purchaser or transferee until ten business days have elapsed from the date of the purchase application or, in the case of a transfer, ten business days have elapsed from the date a background check is initiated. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 12:02:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shall means must in laws 090.6(c) says that the dealer shall deliver following the period of time specified. Technically, any delivery of a SAR after the 10th business day is delivery following the period of time specified as the restriction is that a dealer "may not" deliver before the 10th business day has elapsed. I know it is a crappy way to look at it, but some of these shops are playing it safe. We aren't one of those shops. As soon as we pass the 10th business day, your butt is getting a call 
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Posted: 2/6/2020 12:08:05 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, and that is where we run into these issues. 090.6(c) says that the dealer shall deliver following the period of time specified. Technically, any delivery of a SAR after the 10th business day is delivery following the period of time specified as the restriction is that a dealer "may not" deliver before the 10th business day has elapsed. I know it is a crappy way to look at it, but some of these shops are playing it safe. We aren't one of those shops. As soon as we pass the 10th business day, your butt is getting a call Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Shall means must in laws 090.6(c) says that the dealer shall deliver following the period of time specified. Technically, any delivery of a SAR after the 10th business day is delivery following the period of time specified as the restriction is that a dealer "may not" deliver before the 10th business day has elapsed. I know it is a crappy way to look at it, but some of these shops are playing it safe. We aren't one of those shops. As soon as we pass the 10th business day, your butt is getting a call |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 3:09:55 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They're not playing it safe. They are purposely infringing on our rights even more than 1639 requires. They are losing business and don't seem to even care. The law can even be read that as soon as the FFL receives notice of the BG result, they can release the SAR, even if 10 business days haven't elapsed. But given that our AG HATES guns, gun owners and dealers, why should the FFL take the risk by not interpreting the law as strictly as possible. All downside, no upside in that equation. As pointed out, the RCW doesn't say "shall release after 10 business days, and no more than 10 business days, have elapsed". 12, 15, 30 business days all satisfy the requirement of "shall release after 10 business days." Ultimately, sounds like a huge business opportunity for you. Why not open your own FFL and advertise "we do the the bare minimum requirements"? You'll make a mint! |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 3:13:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Come on guys remember who the real enemy is. I'm not doing it on purpose to infringe on my customers rights and besides I rarely see any go over 10 business days and if it does, its most likely a denied response anyways. If you haven't had to deal with an ATF audit, then you don't know how easily they can change the definition of a regulation. In the event there is a problem, who is the first people they are going to go after? The gun dealer and manufacturer.
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Posted: 2/6/2020 3:16:26 PM EDT
[#13]
That's not even close to accurate. You think gun shops are purposely infringing your rights? To what purpose or for what gain? It's all about balancing risk and reward. They have no reward for delivering your SAR "early", but a ton of risk. Do you as the buyer/transferee face a ton of risk if the dealer releases early? Nope. There have been examples made of dealers who did everything RIGHT, and they are still out of business after a high profile event was connected to them.
The law can even be read that as soon as the FFL receives notice of the BG result, they can release the SAR, even if 10 business days haven't elapsed. But given that our AG HATES guns, gun owners and dealers, why should the FFL take the risk by not interpreting the law as strictly as possible. All downside, no upside in that equation. As pointed out, the RCW doesn't say "shall release after 10 business days, and no more than 10 business days, have elapsed". 12, 15, 30 business days all satisfy the requirement of "shall release after 10 business days." |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 7:43:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As pointed out, the RCW doesn't say "shall release after 10 business days, and no more than 10 business days, have elapsed". 12, 15, 30 business days all satisfy the requirement of "shall release after 10 business days." They write these laws poorly on purpose. They want the FFL to be damned if they do, damned if they don't (oh, lets sprinkle some extra taxes in there too). We can argue both sides and all be 'correct' The point made that we are all on the same team is paramount. We all know these are crap laws. We may have different interpretation of how things should proceed but ultimately we need to be pounding on lawmakers doors to get the mess cleaned up. I've been working on the mess with 80% receivers lately but I'll start including this in my emails |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 7:52:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not even close to accurate. You think gun shops are purposely infringing your rights? To what purpose or for what gain? It's all about balancing risk and reward. They have no reward for delivering your SAR "early", but a ton of risk. Do you as the buyer/transferee face a ton of risk if the dealer releases early? Nope. There have been examples made of dealers who did everything RIGHT, and they are still out of business after a high profile event was connected to them. The law can even be read that as soon as the FFL receives notice of the BG result, they can release the SAR, even if 10 business days haven't elapsed. But given that our AG HATES guns, gun owners and dealers, why should the FFL take the risk by not interpreting the law as strictly as possible. All downside, no upside in that equation. As pointed out, the RCW doesn't say "shall release after 10 business days, and no more than 10 business days, have elapsed". 12, 15, 30 business days all satisfy the requirement of "shall release after 10 business days." Ultimately, sounds like a huge business opportunity for you. Why not open your own FFL and advertise "we do the the bare minimum requirements"? You'll make a mint! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They're not playing it safe. They are purposely infringing on our rights even more than 1639 requires. They are losing business and don't seem to even care. The law can even be read that as soon as the FFL receives notice of the BG result, they can release the SAR, even if 10 business days haven't elapsed. But given that our AG HATES guns, gun owners and dealers, why should the FFL take the risk by not interpreting the law as strictly as possible. All downside, no upside in that equation. As pointed out, the RCW doesn't say "shall release after 10 business days, and no more than 10 business days, have elapsed". 12, 15, 30 business days all satisfy the requirement of "shall release after 10 business days." Ultimately, sounds like a huge business opportunity for you. Why not open your own FFL and advertise "we do the the bare minimum requirements"? You'll make a mint! |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 8:59:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's not correct. Day 11, if the purchaser tries to pick up a firearm and the FFL refuses then they are in violation of the RCW. It's a catch 22 because of federal law though They write these laws poorly on purpose. They want the FFL to be damned if they do, damned if they don't (oh, lets sprinkle some extra taxes in there too). We can argue both sides and all be 'correct' The point made that we are all on the same team is paramount. We all know these are crap laws. We may have different interpretation of how things should proceed but ultimately we need to be pounding on lawmakers doors to get the mess cleaned up. I've been working on the mess with 80% receivers lately but I'll start including this in my emails RCW 9.41.090, section 6(c) says, "The dealer shall deliver the pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle to the purchaser following the period of time specified in this chapter unless the dealer is notified of an investigative hold under subsection (5) of this section in writing by the chief of police of the municipality, the sheriff of the county, or the state, whichever is applicable, or of the denial of the purchaser's application to purchase and the grounds thereof." "Following" is not modified by "immediately" or "within 24 hours" or "within x days" or any other qualifier. It merely states "following" without any quantitative specification. Does 1 business day more constitute "following the period of time"? Yes. How about 10 more business days? Yep, still "following", the FFL is still in compliance with the law, not in violation of it. So you are correct, it is a shit law, written by shit people, with shit language. But you can't add language that isn't there. It doesn't say the FFL is violating the law by not giving it to the customer on business day 11. And frankly, no court is going to side with the customer in this instance, should a lawsuit be brought by the customer against the FFL, to force it. |
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Posted: 2/6/2020 9:19:44 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Show me where in the RCW it says the FFL is in violation if not released on day 11, because that is not at all what the RCW says with regards to deliveries after the waiting period. RCW 9.41.090, section 6(c) says, "The dealer shall deliver the pistol or semiautomatic assault rifle to the purchaser following the period of time specified in this chapter unless the dealer is notified of an investigative hold under subsection (5) of this section in writing by the chief of police of the municipality, the sheriff of the county, or the state, whichever is applicable, or of the denial of the purchaser's application to purchase and the grounds thereof." "Following" is not modified by "immediately" or "within 24 hours" or "within x days" or any other qualifier. It merely states "following" without any quantitative specification. Does 1 business day more constitute "following the period of time"? Yes. How about 10 more business days? Yep, still "following", the FFL is still in compliance with the law, not in violation of it. So you are correct, it is a shit law, written by shit people, with shit language. But you can't add language that isn't there. It doesn't say the FFL is violating the law by not giving it to the customer on business day 11. And frankly, no court is going to side with the customer in this instance, should a lawsuit be brought by the customer against the FFL, to force it. The period of time specified is 10 business days. There are some "unless" provisions but failure to perform the BGC is not one of them You're absolutely correct that no court will side with the customer in this state. That's the sad part. Still doesn't change the law as written |
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