Quoted: Where do I send my money for an open carry defense fund?

So who is willing to open an account at the bank? Who is willing to keep up with the record keeping, tax filing status, determining who money should go to and all of the other BS?

Not me, I've already got more than enough of that crap to deal with. I will send to it tho.

I'm glad to see that some folks are moving ahead with an open carry march.

As I mentioned in earlier posts, it was an idea that was discussed, but just fell by the wayside. Too much happening way too fast.

If any of you would like input from folks in Ohio who did such marches, email me and I'll put you in contact with those people.

Just a word of caution: I don't know the tax status, or the status based on WI ethics laws, or the status based on WI elections laws for a legal defense fund for such a march. It's so easy to trip over WI state law that what would seem to be legal is not.

You would do well by consulting an attorney who specializes in firearms issues before proceeding further. The NRA has three recommended attorneys in WI. If the organizers of the march want the names of any of those attorneys, again, please email me.

One of the organizers of the open carry marches in Ohio advised me that such marches are "a bell that can only be rung once." By that, he meant that the media will pay attention to the first few marches. After that, they lose their effectiveness.

That's one reason why I and other WCCA volunteers put such marches on the back-burner: it seemed like we had more pressing issues. The Personal Protection Act wasn't to be introduced when it was. Many people working for the bill were caught by surprise. It just wasn't supposed to go the way it did.

I would also like to remind you again that one of the WCCA's volunteers is a county prosecutor, and a prosecutor in a very anti-gun county. He advised me to not go forward with such marches in any county where we could not get an absolute written guarantee from the sheriff and DA that people in the marches would not be arrested. Even then, he advised me as to which DA's might sign such an agreement, and then go ahead and tell the police to arrest everyone.

Judging from most of the posts I've read here, I'm not a particularly popular person, at least on AR15.com. That doesn't matter.

What matters to me is that people attending any event run by the WCCA/WCCM understand that they are either attending an event that I and other volunteers have cleared with law enforcement as 150% legal, or that they are attending an event that may result in their arrest.

To imply otherwise is simply misleading, or worse.

If the organizers of this march get all their paperwork in order, I'll do everything I can to help promote it. What's more, there are many, many WCCA volunteers who want to do an open carry march. They're itching for it.

Bear in mind, though, what the Ohio volunteer said about ringing a bell once. A march in April will be forgotten by the public by the next time our CCW bill comes before the legislature. The timing needs to be taken into consideration.

But, all of the above is just my opinion, and my opinion here doesn't seem to be held in very high regard.

Quoted: I would also like to remind you again that one of the WCCA's volunteers is a county prosecutor, and a prosecutor in a very anti-gun county. He advised me to not go forward with such marches in any county where we could not get an absolute written guarantee from the sheriff and DA that people in the marches would not be arrested. Even then, he advised me as to which DA's might sign such an agreement, and then go ahead and tell the police to arrest everyone.

As far as DA's and all that shit goes, read these two opinions.
There is no need to get permission or any thing signed by a DA for this, the only required paperwork will be the permits nessesary to have the rally.

U.S. Supreme Court- ZWICKER v. BOLL, 391 U.S. 353 (1968)


RALPH OVADAL v. CITY OF MADISON, WISCONSIN,RICHARD WILLIAMS, CHRISPAULSON, and PATRICK GRADY

photoman, those rulings do go in our favor but that wont stop some "nut case DA"(™ MGLouie) from going after us and wasting our time and money in court. It wont even get us favorable media coverage.

Even tho normal Joes would be on our side, they're not willing to invest time and money into something that could end up looking bad.

I'm not negative on the idea at all. We just need to make sure it works out in our favor as much as possible.

On the permits part, have you had a chance to check into getting permits yet. Most cities base the cost of the permit on a "Event Classification" like Green Bay's permit application. What do you think they'll charge us?

We would be better off having a rally in my back yard.

Quoted: But, all of the above is just my opinion, and my opinion here doesn't seem to be held in very high regard.

You're being much too hard on yourself.  

Quoted: (snip) But, all of the above is just my opinion, and my opinion here doesn't seem to be held in very high regard.

I do disagree with some of the caution-- getting spooked by every possibility out there practically stops us from exersizing our First OR Second amendment rights to protest peacefully or to openly carry a firearm!  

I also believe that the rules have been stacked against us and that it's time to open up a multiple-front war against our enemy-- anti-rights zealots.

But no matter what, please do not confuse my disagreement with disregard.  I personally hold you in VERY high regard.  Without you and the WCCA, we'd still be fighting like it was 1996-- our progress would be a decade (or more) behind were we are today.

Mike

Thanks for the positive comments, Mike.

There are ways to make full-auto fund-raising shoots 150% legal, so that even if Doyle were God Himself (God forbid), he can't touch us.

I can't emphasize this point enough: I was not going to send out a blanket invitation to everyone in the Midwest, inviting them to a shoot where there was even a remote possibility of arrest or harassment. It would have been unfair to the attendees of such a shoot, and would have blown up in the face of the concealed carry effort.

Again, having events like this one are completely different than the usual full-auto events that go on every weekend in WI. This was in Doyle's face, especially since he and AG Lautenschlager were looking for ways under WI statutes to prosecute full-auto owners back in 2003. For anything they could get them on. That's Doyle.

I appreciate the fact that there are members of this forum who are willing to go to the wall. Unfortunately, you folks are in the minority.

Unless you have the power of someone like Governor Doyle to sell indian casino compacts, energy company rate increases, nuclear power plant sales, and other items of interest to the very rich and powerful, it's awfully damned hard to raise tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars at a crack. Doyle does it every day.

I want to set up another full-auto shoot. I want it to be in Doyle's face. I want it to be 150% legal. And I want it to raise multiple thousands of dollars, not a couple of hundred bucks. I can raise a couple of hundred bucks just by spending an hour or so sending out emails; that's chickenshit. Hell, I can raise $1000 a person by making just a few phone calls.

I want Doyle's goons to show up at the event, and our attorney shows them a legal document that says, "tell your governor to fuck off. This is legal."

Ideally, I'd like to hold this event during the May NRA convention. I'd like to have WCCA volunteers outside with their cars, ready to escort NRA members back and forth to the shoot.

And, instead of having subguns, I'd like to have the heavy stuff---.50 cal's, M60's, SAW's, and other exotica--that people would pay $75 or even $100 to shoot.

I know that I can get some Class III dealers to bring such guns to the event.

What I don't know is how many people are willing to help.

Talk is cheap.

So, for all of you who have said you're willing to do what it takes: this is what it takes.

What are you willing to do?

If you're willing to help out with such an event, please email me at [email protected]

If, with your help, we can pull off this event, every other pro-gun group in the state will disavow themselves from any involvement.  They will distance themselves.

And that's okay. As Mike (prebans) surely already knows, one of the purposes of the WCCA's existence was to be able to do things that the mainstream gun groups could not.  I've already told one AR15.com member what we (I) were preparing to do. And it was waaaayyyyyy outside the mainstream.

Maybe we haven't been far enough out there. If that's your opinion of the WCCA, here's your chance to change that opinion.

Dick, if I owned heavy stuff, I'd gladly drive up there and donate my time and guns for the cause.

Let me make a few phone calls and see what I can do from a distance.

Mike