Quoted: I was stopped in the Fall on the way back from the Hun Farm.  I know I was not speeding, but.. it was a motorcycle cop, and I knew I would be ticketed. ... Instead..?  Ticket for speeding and a day at Defensive Driving.

So you went ahead and agreed to take defensive driving for a ticket you recieved unjustly?

Whenever I get one of those I usually opt for the not guilty request trial by jury route.

Wow - and just to add gas to the flames, we arrest people all the time for traffic charges.  Our policy states - if a person can not provide ID for a traffic violation, then they will post a bond (get arrested).  

Quoted: Wow - and just to add gas to the flames, we arrest people all the time for traffic charges.  Our policy states - if a person can not provide ID for a traffic violation, then they will post a bond (get arrested).

Geez I'd be arresting half the people I stop.  

Quoted: Quoted: However, things are going to get really nasty if I catch you in a lie.   You see,  criminals lie.  Honest gun owners don't.   Honest people do lie.  Honest people get scared and do stupid shit at times.

Ding ding ding, we have a winner.

Quoted: However, things are going to get really nasty if I catch you in a lie.   You see,  criminals lie.  Honest gun owners don't.

This is a perfect example of JohnInAustin's attitude toward the mere subjects of the Great State of Texas.

Cedar Park Choppers:  Hey JohnInAustin, did you stop in at the Gun Store yet?

Quoted: I am still trying to figure out why you would blatantly lie about what is in the vehicle, especially if it is perfectly legal. If you are afraid of your property being seized by an uninformed officer, you have every right to insist on the supervisor/BATFE option. If it is discovered that you are not being truthful, you have just given the officer reasonable suspicion to investigate further. Why dig yourself into a deeper hole?

Where I work, I will be fired (yes, fired) if I'm arrested.  It doesn't matter if I'm innocent.  If I'm booked into a jail of any type, I'll be fired and lose my livelyhood.  I'll have no recourse, because Texas is a right to work state, and I work in a sensitive industry that is heavily regulated by the federal government.  My criminal history is clean, except for a speeding ticket from a few years ago, but I would not openly offer up any information, even if asked by a police officer, that could be used against me in any way.

Remember the Alamo, and God Bless Texas...

ok....i don't post here alot, but i am a C3 dealer in Austin and i know David (the owner of The Gun Store in Cedar Park).

i didn't bother asking him about the DPS Trooper and his alleged comment.  but i can tell you this:

1. LE can arrest you for having a C3 weapon in your possession, regardless of whether or not you have an ATF registration form in hand or not.  it is a defense to prosecution, so ultimately the charges would be dropped.  if you have a piss-poor attitude, an officer just may take you into custody.

2. that being said, DPS specifically has no civil service protection.  that means, if they arrest someone for the above-stated offense, he could be out of a job the next day.  i mean, like if they arrest someone like a lobbyist, politician, high-powered attorney, etc, who knows someone high up in the state government, DPS Trooper _____ could be former DPS Trooper ______ tomorrow.

3. in regards to the officer who pulls people over to do inventory searches.  i am a former LE officer from California.  i can say in my career i did the same, not necessarily an "inventory" search but my goal on a car stop was to search the vehicle.  that is simply good police work.  if i can legally get into the car i would search.  a good FTO will teach his trainee to look past the ticket and look for a real crime.  Constitutionally, however, if you are going to perform an "inventory" search, it must be pursuant to towing the vehicle for storage purposes.  meaning, you have to complete the tow, not just search the car on the premise of an "inventory" when you have no intention of towing it to begin with.  if you are the habit of ripping a car and not towing it if you don't find anything, then you are indeed violating someone's 4th Amendment right.  just be sure you tow the car EACH and EVERY time you perform a vehicle search for "inventory" purposes.

my two cents.  i have no reason to be anti-LE or anti-citizen carrying lawfully.

Quoted: Quoted: However, things are going to get really nasty if I catch you in a lie.   You see,  criminals lie.  Honest gun owners don't.   This is a perfect example of JohnInAustin's attitude toward the mere subjects of the Great State of Texas. Cedar Park Choppers:  Hey JohnInAustin, did you stop in at the Gun Store yet?

And this is a great example of YOUR attitude,  especially since you have already admitted your ignorance on the subject matter.

Kind of hard to visit a store when it's closed.  Do you have 24 hr gun shops in Houston?

This is quite interesting...

Dave should be open tomorrow.  I think he takes Monday and Tuesday off.  Just seeing if you actually knew where the store was.

As far as 24hour gunshops in Houston, I know one or two that would open up for me anytime.  well, actually one, but I have to bring refreshments.

Quoted: Dave should be open tomorrow.  I think he takes Monday and Tuesday off.  Just seeing if you actually knew where the store was. As far as 24hour gunshops in Houston, I know one or two that would open up for me anytime.  well, actually one, but I have to bring refreshments.

Whatever.  It's already been established that you didn't know where the store was yourself.  I think a simpler explanation is that you are lying.

Quoted:
3. in regards to the officer who pulls people over to do inventory searches.  i am a former LE officer from California.  i can say in my career i did the same, not necessarily an "inventory" search but my goal on a car stop was to search the vehicle.  that is simply good police work.  if i can legally get into the car i would search.  a good FTO will teach his trainee to look past the ticket and look for a real crime.  Constitutionally, however, if you are going to perform an "inventory" search, it must be pursuant to towing the vehicle for storage purposes.  meaning, you have to complete the tow, not just search the car on the premise of an "inventory" when you have no intention of towing it to begin with.  if you are the habit of ripping a car and not towing it if you don't find anything, then you are indeed violating someone's 4th Amendment right.  just be sure you tow the car EACH and EVERY time you perform a vehicle search for "inventory" purposes.quote]

Unless your department has a written policy requiring you to inventory every vehicle on arrest, then you can inventory without towing, we do.

Quoted: Quoted: Wow - and just to add gas to the flames, we arrest people all the time for traffic charges.  Our policy states - if a person can not provide ID for a traffic violation, then they will post a bond (get arrested).   Geez I'd be arresting half the people I stop.

We do arrest alot of people for traffic violations.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Wow - and just to add gas to the flames, we arrest people all the time for traffic charges.  Our policy states - if a person can not provide ID for a traffic violation, then they will post a bond (get arrested).   Geez I'd be arresting half the people I stop.   We do arrest alot of people for traffic violations.

In my county it's too much of a pain in the ass to instanter often.  

Quoted: Quoted: Dave should be open tomorrow.  I think he takes Monday and Tuesday off.  Just seeing if you actually knew where the store was. As far as 24hour gunshops in Houston, I know one or two that would open up for me anytime.  well, actually one, but I have to bring refreshments. Whatever.  It's already been established that you didn't know where the store was yourself.  I think a simpler explanation is that you are lying.

I don't know who you are, but I know sc, he doesnt lie. Cops like you are the reason honest, law abideing people have to be less than honest because of people who are in your position and have your temper and nasty attitude, I hope you leave law enforcment before you ruin some honest persons life

Quoted: Quoted: Dave should be open tomorrow.  I think he takes Monday and Tuesday off.  Just seeing if you actually knew where the store was. As far as 24hour gunshops in Houston, I know one or two that would open up for me anytime.  well, actually one, but I have to bring refreshments. Whatever.  It's already been established that you didn't know where the store was yourself.  I think a simpler explanation is that you are lying.

Dude, aren't you the supposedly knowlegable person whodidn't know that Texas law prohibited Class 3 firearms.  

Don't you have some parking tickets to write?  You must be the local meter maid in your department.  

Where did you get your training?  The K-Mart Police academy?

BTW:  I have been in David's shop, but back when it was in Houston.  Haven't been to the one in Cedar Park. Never said that I had.  I just know its in the Austin area.

John,  Go back to writing parking tickets, something that your mentality seems to be expecially suited.

Found a picture of your patrol vehicle right here:


Edited to add:  I met NFAInvestments in David's "The Gun Store" when it was in Houston which led to my machinegun addiction.  

www.houstonattorney.org/images/A-Mardi%20gras/sprintpicture-17-Cop%20Scooters/56075475077.jpg



Don't mess with NOPD, they will beat the hell out of you and put you in jail.

Quoted: www.houstonattorney.org/images/A-Mardi%20gras/sprintpicture-17-Cop%20Scooters/56075475077.jpg Don't mess with NOPD, they will beat the hell out of you and put you in jail.

lol, where?

How come there is always one LEO who turns out to be the fly in the ointment?his
http://www.houstonattorney.org/images/A-Mardi%20gras/sprintpicture-17-Cop%20Scooters/56075475077.jpg

I think John-In_Austin has been  http://houstonattorney.org/images/potatowned.gif

Quoted: Quoted: www.houstonattorney.org/images/A-Mardi%20gras/sprintpicture-17-Cop%20Scooters/56075475077.jpg Don't mess with NOPD, they will beat the hell out of you and put you in jail. lol, where?

NOPD at MArdi Gras- they will beat the shit out of you if you run your mouth.

"YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORATAE!"

Quoted: How come there is always one LEO who turns out to be the fly in the ointment? I don't want this thread to turn into an LEO bashfest, but John-In_austin has come in and made several statements that are simply incorrect and started bashing other members.  Makes me wonder if he is really a LEO or if he is some teenage cop groupee. www.houstonattorney.org/images/A-Mardi%20gras/sprintpicture-17-Cop%20Scooters/56075475077.jpg I think John-In_Austin has been  houstonattorney.org/images/potatowned.gif

This was a LEO bashfest long before I turned up.  At YOUR request in the BOS forum I might add.

Show me my "incorrect statements".  Show me the "bashing".

I'm also quite interested in the fact SC is a Houston attorney and Frylock posts pics whose ID's are labeled "houstonattorney.org".

Troll account anyone?




(edited to add)

I'm still waiting for those links to the Arfcom member(s) arrested in Austin.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Dave should be open tomorrow.  I think he takes Monday and Tuesday off.  Just seeing if you actually knew where the store was. As far as 24hour gunshops in Houston, I know one or two that would open up for me anytime.  well, actually one, but I have to bring refreshments. Whatever.  It's already been established that you didn't know where the store was yourself.  I think a simpler explanation is that you are lying. I don't know who you are, but I know sc, he doesnt lie. Cops like you are the reason honest, law abideing people have to be less than honest because of people who are in your position and have your temper and nasty attitude, I hope you leave law enforcment before you ruin some honest persons life

Good for you. Go right on believing that.  I've already caught SC in a lie.    As for your opinion.,  It's been noted, and discarded.

John-In-Austin

Have you ever heard the term:  "Quite while you are losing"?  You are simply digging yourself deeper my friend.  

1.  I have not been caught in any lies.  What is up with your name;  "John-In-Austin"?  Isn't that a lie?  You have stated that you are in Cedar Park haven't you?  "5 Minutes from The Gun Store"?

2.  The Potatowned is off of www.m-aparts.org, which is my tribute to how not to do business at gunsshows.

3.  As far as the ARFCOM member arrested in Austin:  I'll let you find it since you consider yourself to be such a heap-big-an-smart Texas Lawman.  Use some of your heap-big Injun investigative skills here in the Texas forum.

4.  You have, however, shown the members of this board that you don't know squat about the laws that you are paid to enforce with your comment on Texas law and NFA items.  Congratulations.  Its always best when you put your own foot in your own mouth.  We used to call that Hoof-in-Mouth disease out on the farm.  

Maybe that's a new board name for you:  Hoof-In-Mouth.  It may be more accurate than John-In-Austin.

Don't you have some parking tickets to write?

scubatexas wrote:

Unless your department has a written policy requiring you to inventory every vehicle on arrest, then you can inventory without towing, we do.

It's not department policy, it is the law.  Your department can't write a policy that conflicts with the law.

You cannot simply "inventory" a vehicle pursuant to arrest and not tow it.  That's like performing a search incident to arrest but not making a custodial arrest, or searching something first and then if you find something, go back outside, seal it up, and go get a search warrant.

The intent of performing a vehicle inventory is to cover the department when you tow a vehicle for storage that an accurate inventory of the contents of the vehicle is performed to prevent claims later than something was missing.

Unless:  your department will not allow you to charge anyone with a crime if they find anything illegal in the course of the vehicle inventory.

Otherwise, you cannot inventory a vehicle without towing it.  If you aren't towing the vehicle there is no need to inventory the contents inside the vehicle.  Thus you are performing an illegal search and violating someone's 4th Amendment rights.

I welcome you to tell me what department allows such a violation of the 4th Amendment right.  I will then take that to the local ACLU and see that it is corrected.

I beleive Spreadfire nailed this one on the head.

It is sad but it has become "Us against Them."

Mostly because so many of "Them" believe they are no longer one of "Us."   They (many of them) think that because they are Law Enforcement they are not "civilians" anymore.

I’m sure "Us" the regular guys deserve some of the blame too.

It’s unfortunate that it is this way and i have no idea how to fix it.   I do know one thing, a good place to start:  "They" need to be reminded that they are still civilians too and the law apply to them just as much as us.

Ben, The_Emu

Quoted: It is sad but it has become "Us against Them." Mostly because so many of "Them" believe they are no longer one of "Us."   They (many of them) think that because they are Law Enforcement they are not "civilians" anymore. I’m sure "Us" the regular guys deserve some of the blame too. It’s unfortunate that it is this way and i have no idea how to fix it.   I do know one thing, a good place to start:  "They" need to be reminded that they are still civilians too and the law apply to them just as much as us. Ben, The_Emu

+1

Spreadfire is a RKI and I have found him to know his stuff whenver I have talked to him at gunshows.

We've done well so far.  This hasn't been an LEO bashing thread with the exception of JohnInAustin gracing us with his presence.

Sorry for the rant.  I know there are good ones out there too.  Im related to one.

Ben, the_Emu

My Sister and some randon kid.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry for the rant.  I know there are good ones out there too.  Im related to one. Ben, the_Emu My Sister and some randon kid. www.njfishandwildlife.com/images/derby/2004-3/pleasant_valley_pond3lg.jpg She's cute, you must be adopted or something. TRG

You stay away form my sister!

Quoted:

Is this the guy from Austin who said that Texas doesn't have any laws concerning machineguns and then told me that I wasn't welcome in his jurisdcition becasue I was going to break his laws and then told NFAInvestments to carry a gun in a national Park even if it was against the law?

Quoted: You see,  criminals lie.  Honest gun owners don't.

So when you say you know the law, are you lying, and therefore a criminal, or just painfully ignorant?

and for those of you (no names listed) who believe SC-Texas is not an attorney, you're flat wrong.  i've met the guy, he is an attorney in the Houston area.  that means:

1. he went to an accredited school of law
2. has a J.D. postgraduate degree
3. passed the Texas BAR exam which is about 100 times more difficult than the TCLEOSE exam
4. is a practicing attorney

i am a former LE officer from California.  this issue isn't about citizens against cops or vice versa.  what this is, is simply about correct information.

all bashing aside, i don't know of too many LE officers who are well-versed in NFA unless that happens to be their hobby.

if they happen to arrest you for possessing NFA legally, it is written in the Texas penal code that they can.

but to search a vehicle on the pretext of an "inventory" without actually towing a vehicle for storage clearly violates the 4th Amendment.  if your department allows it, then i'd suggest to your superiors there that it may be in violation of the 4th Amendment and that it puts officers and the department at risk of being sued in civil court.  fact is, as an officer you are expected to know if it's illegal and your department policy won't cover you.

Quoted: ... violation of the 4th Amendment and that it puts officers and the department at risk of being sued in civil court.  fact is, as an officer you are expected to know if it's illegal and your department policy won't cover you.

Does anyone ever actually get sued over this?  Seems like there are far more reasons and opportunities to sue police for bogus arrests (as in the case in Austin that SC-Texas refers to above).

Quoted: Quoted: ... violation of the 4th Amendment and that it puts officers and the department at risk of being sued in civil court.  fact is, as an officer you are expected to know if it's illegal and your department policy won't cover you. Does anyone ever actually get sued over this?  Seems like there are far more reasons and opportunities to sue police for bogus arrests (as in the case in Austin that SC-Texas refers to above).

Generally not.  Searches incident to an arrest, or arrests for the purpose of getting around a refusal to consent to a search are illegal and generally dealt with in a motion to suppress.

Unfortunately, most of these, like 90% of arrests, are of bad guys and they have multiple charges and a long rap sheet.  They proabably wouldn't get much love from a jury.

Quoted: and for those of you (no names listed) who believe SC-Texas is not an attorney, you're flat wrong.  i've met the guy, he is an attorney in the Houston area.  that means: all bashing aside, i don't know of too many LE officers who are well-versed in NFA unless that happens to be their hobby. if they happen to arrest you for possessing NFA legally, it is written in the Texas penal code that they can.

And just because I am an attorney doesn't mean that I cannot be quite wrong on occasion.  Just ask Mrs_SC-Texas.

Further, I know several LEOs that I don;t hesitate to go to to get their impression about a law and its enforcement.  Just because they are not attorneys doesn' t mean that they aren't reasonbly knowlegable individuals.  

true, but all you need to do as a LE officer is violate the 4th amendment rights of an attorney (knowing my luck if i was a cop it would be a criminal defense attorney at that) and watch him sue you.

not all attorneys specialize in criminal law, but they sure can go to the Texas BAR and go find another attorney who does.  the thing about an attorney is that they don't have to hire someone to sue you, they can do it themselves.  so if you've pissed one of them off enough, they may make it their mission to not only end your LE career, but also take your house, car, and gun collection away. h

i'd also call every news organization i could.  i used to work for a major radio network here so i still have a few media connections.  the press in Austin LOVES to take a dump on LE when they have the opportunity to.

that being said, i wouldn't go out of my way to give an LE officer a hard time.  i support what they do, since i am a former LE officer and may even be going back as a reserve officer in the near future.

but if you VIOLATE THE LAW, cop or citizen, you deserve to have your ass handed to you.

Quoted: This was a LEO bashfest long before I turned up.  At YOUR request in the BOS forum I might add.  Show me my "incorrect statements".  Show me the "bashing".hr

This hasn't become an LEO bashing thread, simply a JohnInAustin bashing thread and that was brought on by your attitude.  

Incorrect statements?:  This isn't going to take that long
1.  I am not SC-Texas.  Just because I pulled the Potat-owned gif off M-Aparts.org doesn't mean that I and SC-Texas are the same person.  I thought the Potat-owned gif was quite appropriate in your case.

2.  Your misstatement of the law regarding NFA weapons in Texas.  "You are under no obligation to tell me what's in the cases. (Not that I'd ask in the first place, I couldn't give a rat's ass whether you have a suppressor or not. [b]I do not enforce Federal law)"  You obviously didn't know that Texas has a law governing machine guns and other NFA items.  Also, are drinking laws and state speed limits federally mandated and therefore essentially federal laws?

3. About the arrest in Austin:  Did you even bother to look around in the forum?  Did you get the feeling that maybe everyone knew something that you had completely missed?  I understand that is probably a familiar feeling for you.

4.  The Gunstore:  I don't know where the Gunstore is, but since you "live 5 minutes away from it" and promised us that you would stop in to verify the truth of SC-Texas' statements, where is your report?  Did you make the stop or was that more hot air on your part?

5. Your apparent hipocrisy regarding the breaking of laws in your jurisdiction verses other people jurisdiction:   "things are going to get really nasty if I catch you in a lie"

From your post above to SC-Texas:  "when you profess the desire to perform criminal actions (As you specifically stated in the thread in question) I certainly do NOT want you in my jurisdiction. "

From your post in NFAInvestment's thread about carrying a gun in a National Park:  "A gun is an absolute requirement. If it [sic] carried concealed, no one will be the wiser. Be VERY aware of folks you meet along trails and such."   Note that several people had posted links to the laws that clearly state that firearms are not permitted in National Parks above your response.

Why would you post these two contradictory statements?  Is it OK to break the law in a national park (someone else's jurisdiction) but not OK to break it when travelling through your little ville of Cedar Park?

6. I could go on, but I have a life outside of the internet.

If I had known that you would come over and be such a horse's ass, I would never have posted anything in the Brother's of the Shield Forum and inadvertently invited you into this thread.  

JohnInAustin, you give Law enforcement a bad name.  You should find another line of work.

Basically JohnInAustin, Thank you for coming over to play.  Now go home.  

Ouch. It is so nice to see that EVERYONE realizes that John-in-denial is a booger head.

Why is it OK for cops to lie but not for John Q public?

I know for a fact that lying while questioning people is done everyday.

JohninAustin, why is it ok for Cops to lie to me while questioning me?

Why do you not understand why a greater good is being served by me
wanting to lie by omiting the truth? Especially, given the state of our
society.

I find it very sad, depressing and frustrating that I have to teach my
kids to be very leery of law enforcement.  They are under  the strictest
of orders to divulge NO information if questioned and request for their mom to be called,
she being the family attorney.

You calling my kids crooks for following their fathers orders?

You know of any stories from the Bible where a greater good was served
by lying?  Food for thought.

Just for fun check out:

Matt. 7 :6; 15 :1- 6 ; 21 :23-27
John 7 :3-10
Gen. 12:10-19;  20; 26:1-10
Josh. 2:1-6
Jas. 2:25
2 Ki. 6:11-23