KICKED OUT OF AMC THEATRES! - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - KICKED OUT OF AMC THEATRES! (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 8/14/2004 12:24:41 AM EDT

[#1]

Sorry to hear about this SR.

This week I will call both Vestar and that AMC theater and let them know my feelings.

I cannot believe they wouldn't even go in and get your friends for you.

I'm pretty much exclusively a Harkins customer anyway, but I most definitely will be from now on; and I'll be telling my heat-packing nonARfcom friends (have a few) about this too. Even though I mostly carry concealed, I prefer not to patronize establishments like this. I also think I'm gonna carry open a little more often.

Posted: 8/14/2004 4:40:31 AM EDT

[#2]

They have the right to deny me carrying open, I have the right not to patronize their buisness.
Screw em, Harkins popcorn is better anyway.

Posted: 8/14/2004 9:27:04 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
I posted this on the AZRKBA list........alot of Az gun rights "heavy hitters" read that, mayhaps they can help out.

Oh yeah? Do tell? Is this a mailing list? Where do I signup?

Posted: 8/14/2004 5:43:43 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
As I posted in teh general forum:

Well, I finally made it to the 9th page and read every message. Simply amazing that folks would denigrate someone for doing something legal, something he's done for 3 years. There was no argument, he complied with management's request. His beef is that there was no sign and an unevenly enforced "policy".

Now, if AMC's policy is NOT no guns, and they are in control of their premises, how can they claim Vestar as the bad guys unless they want to deflect culpability and hide behind laws and such? I am no lawyer, but unless there is an EXPLICIT prohibition in the lease agreement they signed, then AMC can do whatever they want. If there IS a prohibition in the agreement, then it needs to be evenly enforced...everywhere on that property. So, job one is to see whose policy it really is then act from there.

Then there's this:

R, I'm conflicted by your story. I support the RKBA and I carry concealed almost everywhere I go. In principal, I support your position. However, I'm not so sure I like how you allowed things to go down in practice. Civil rights arguments aside, you probably did more harm than good to our cause.

This is one of those "discretion is the better part of valor" situations. You need to carefully consider the fallout from your actions: is this situation more likely to make the average person see open carry as normal, or is it more likely to turn them off ? I'd be willing to bet that most of the sheeple here in AZ don't even know open carry is legal; a few more incidents like this could conceivably trigger a push in the legislature to ban open carry ("with CCW, why do they need open carry" etc.). Remember we live in a Representative Republic and, as the demographics of AZ change, we will be increasingly vulnerable.

Also, to some extent you are spoiling things for the rest of us. Those of us who carry concealed can often do so in places that, at least nominally, prohibit carry but don't post the fact with signs... a kind of "don't ask, don't tell" situation. Pushing open carry in such places will probably do nothing for our rights, but WILL force more property owners to post "no weapons" signs, thus formally closing those venues to us.

Lastly, if you are ever found to be carrying at this same theatre location, even concealed, you can no longer plead ignorance of their "no weapons" policy.

Let's replace the general "open carry", "gun owner" and such with "person of color/negro/African American" to see about a similar situation some 50 years ago.

"You shouldn't ride in the front of the bus, Rosa...you're just hurting our cause...people aren't used to seeing Negroes in the front of the bus. Why can't you just sit in the back or not take the bus.?"

Do NOT try and use the argument that these situations are not the same..they are exactly the same. The ability to exercise a right is based on folks actually exercising that right.

How would civil rights have gone had them "uppity Negroes" decided to be "covert" about their sitting in the bus. Should they have used theater makeup and CCW'd by making themselves look white THEN sitting at the Woolworth's counter for lunch? I mean, nobody would have known they were black...so no harm, no foul.

But the essence of it is they wanted to be treated, oh I dunno, like human-fucking-beings. Just like gun owners.

With a few more incidents like this, why do we need open carry if we have CCW?"

Say what? If nobody openly carries, then it doesn't matter if there are laws allowing it, so they can decide it's no longer necessary anyway. That argument makes no sense.

Sinistral: You openly carried, which is your right, and you were asked not to, which was the theatre's right. No harm no foul. If I owned a private business and 2 people openly carried into my establishment, id ask them to leave/disarm: how the hell do I know they are stable enough to safely bring firearms openly into my place? Its not the firearms im against, its the people behind the trigger...I dont see what the problem is? Its an establishment for the public...meaning your catering to everyone, by making sure everyone is comfortable and satsified with the experience. Your right, you are the minority in this situation...but irrationally you think you need to make a statement in that sense...you didn't need to.

As a private business person, I wholly support your right to exclude anyone from your business. However, your statement reminds me of a story: Wife and I were at a local gun store one evening. Scruffy lookin' fella with long hair is wandering the aisles, looking at ammo, holsters and such. Ohhhh...even guns. Looks like someone in your description above...I mean, how can I be sure he's stable? Wife says "wow....they'll let anyone in here..." kind of jokingly, but I could see a little apprehension (this was in 1995 or so).

I asked my wife "do you know who that is?"
"No."
"Alice Cooper"

So, you can't judge a book by its cover. The above statement by the writer shows a great deal of the elitism we see from Feinstein, etc. "It's ok for me to have a gun in my store, because I know I am stable. However, I don't want 'regular people' to have them." Again, your store, your rules and I've no problem with your right to exclude them from entering. However, if they were carrying concealed, just how would you know, and then deal, with this situation? Does having a tshirt over their gun remove any instability they might have, making them suddenly more trustworthy?

Middle Eastern men carrying openly, in the absence of any other "information" won't cause me to be suspicious. Neither would armed bikers, armed Mexicans or armed anyone else deciding to carry openly absent other circumstances. Hell, for all I know, they could be carrying concealed, whether legally or not, and I wouldn't know the difference. It's what people DO, not how they're dressed, that should be of concern. Absent other actions, merely wearing a gun isn't a crime or issue.

TimW
Phoenix
Practical Tactical, LLC

An excellent post that says everything that needs saying. Good job, sir. For those of you that shun open carry, I ask you this: What are those of us to young for a CCW suppsed to do? Are we to be second class citizens, old enough to die in defense of our country, but not old enough to defend our own lives in that very same country?

Posted: 8/14/2004 5:50:35 PM EDT

[#5]

13-3111. Minors prohibited from carrying or possessing firearms

A. Except as provided in subsection B, an unemancipated person who is under eighteen years of age and who is unaccompanied by a parent, grandparent or guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with the consent of the unemancipated person's parent or guardian, shall not knowingly carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place that is open to the public or on any street or highway or on any private property except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian.

Posted: 8/14/2004 6:01:01 PM EDT

[#6]

13-3111. Minors prohibited from carrying or possessing firearms

A. Except as provided in subsection B, an unemancipated person who is under eighteen years of age and who is unaccompanied by a parent, grandparent or guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with the consent of the unemancipated person's parent or guardian, shall not knowingly carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place that is open to the public or on any street or highway or on any private property except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian

AFAIK you have to be 21 to CCW in Az, so open carry is the only option for those 18 to 20 yrs of age.

The horror........

Biggame223

Out

Posted: 8/14/2004 6:01:16 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
13-3111. Minors prohibited from carrying or possessing firearms

A. Except as provided in subsection B, an unemancipated person who is under eighteen years of age and who is unaccompanied by a parent, grandparent or guardian, or a certified hunter safety instructor or certified firearms safety instructor acting with the consent of the unemancipated person's parent or guardian, shall not knowingly carry or possess on his person, within his immediate control, or in or on a means of transportation a firearm in any place that is open to the public or on any street or highway or on any private property except private property owned or leased by the minor or the minor's parent, grandparent or guardian.

Last time I checked, 18 was considered an adult. One must be 21 to obtain a CCW. I'm still waiting for an answer.

Posted: 8/14/2004 7:00:08 PM EDT

[#8]

Ask yourselves this....is it really a right when the government makes you pay for a class and pay a fee to exercise that right?

Let's start taxes for voting again! We can keep some of those unsavory people on welfare from voting then!

Let's charge people a tax if they want to have children. That ought to help keep the population down!

Let's charge newspapers a fee to be licensed newspapers and allowed to be published.

It's all the same thing. CCW is a privilege not a right as far as the state is concerned....just look on that little ID card they make you carry.

Let's start making Jews, Homosexuals and other undesireables carry "papers" again too....its the same thing, gun owners are the one minority it is OK to discriminate against.

If the theatre told me I couldn't wear my cross or star of david in there I could sue the shit out of them....denying me my right to carry is no different, yet somehow those among us believe it is.

The thing I love about this site is on one side of the spectrum people say I am the same thing as a gun grabber because I think blowing things up with tannerite is not constitutionally protected and irresponsible....then on the other side others think I am extremist for exercising my rights (so we do not lose them) and that by exercising these rights I am hurting everyone else's rights. No wonder half the time we lose battles for the RKBA.

We should be lobbying the state government to make concealed carry legal without a permit so long as you have no criminal intent. The people in other states in GD criticizing me are joyous at the fact that their states give them this "privilege" at all of hiding their self defense tools and at such a reasonable price too!...if freedom is your masters deciding you can do something, I want none of it!

How many of us (gun owners) would not support CCW without permits because we make money on charging people for classes? How many people that own machine guns will never lobby for the '86 ban to be lifted or for an amnesty because their $10,000 colt will only be worth $700? How many are bemoaning the AWB sunsetting because their "pre-ban" guns will be worth as much as a used post ban AR is now? Few people want to pay a personal price for liberty.

I know by open-carrying I risk being thrown out of any public establishment I go into. The price of exercising my rights and attempting to help the cause of freedom in this case was very low...a spoiled evening. However, what happenned to me and my friends has alerted everyone else to this business' policies, and that is a good thing! They are going to at the least be forced to put up signs now so that everyone knows they have a NO WEAPONS policy, and open-carriers and CCW holders alike can make an informed decision on where to spend their money.

When one lives in fear of exercising their rights, freedom no longer exists.

Posted: 8/14/2004 7:41:49 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Ask yourselves this....is it really a right when the government makes you pay for a class and pay a fee to exercise that right?

Let's start taxes for voting again! We can keep some of those unsavory people on welfare from voting then!

Let's charge people a tax if they want to have children. That ought to help keep the population down!

Let's charge newspapers a fee to be licensed newspapers and allowed to be published.

It's all the same thing. CCW is a privilege not a right as far as the state is concerned....just look on that little ID card they make you carry.

Let's start making Jews, Homosexuals and other undesireables carry "papers" again too....its the same thing, gun owners are the one minority it is OK to discriminate against.

If the theatre told me I couldn't wear my cross or star of david in there I could sue the shit out of them....denying me my right to carry is no different, yet somehow those among us believe it is.

The thing I love about this site is on one side of the spectrum people say I am the same thing as a gun grabber because I think blowing things up with tannerite is not constitutionally protected and irresponsible....then on the other side others think I am extremist for exercising my rights (so we do not lose them) and that by exercising these rights I am hurting everyone else's rights. No wonder half the time we lose battles for the RKBA.

We should be lobbying the state government to make concealed carry legal without a permit so long as you have no criminal intent. The people in other states in GD criticizing me are joyous at the fact that their states give them this "privilege" at all of hiding their self defense tools and at such a reasonable price too!...if freedom is your masters deciding you can do something, I want none of it!

How many of us (gun owners) would not support CCW without permits because we make money on charging people for classes? How many people that own machine guns will never lobby for the '86 ban to be lifted or for an amnesty because their $10,000 colt will only be worth $700? How many are bemoaning the AWB sunsetting because their "pre-ban" guns will be worth as much as a used post ban AR is now? Few people want to pay a personal price for liberty.

I know by open-carrying I risk being thrown out of any public establishment I go into. The price of exercising my rights and attempting to help the cause of freedom in this case was very low...a spoiled evening. However, what happenned to me and my friends has alerted everyone else to this business' policies, and that is a good thing! They are going to at the least be forced to put up signs now so that everyone knows they have a NO WEAPONS policy, and open-carriers and CCW holders alike can make an informed decision on where to spend their money.

When one lives in fear of exercising their rights, freedom no longer exists.

Posted: 8/14/2004 7:48:39 PM EDT

[#10]

Unalienable rights are just that unalienable; they cannot be taxed, restricted or legislated. If any of these happens we no longer have a right only a privilege. Becuase Gun owners like those in GD is why we are at the sorry state of affairs we find ourselves in.

Posted: 8/14/2004 9:24:14 PM EDT

[#11]

That is total bs about amc theatre, the same same happened to me at dennys open carrying

Posted: 8/14/2004 10:02:15 PM EDT

[#12]

same happened to me at dennys open carrying

FWIW

There are a some Denny's here in Tucson that have license for alcohol consumption on premisis, they sell little bottles of wine IIRC.

Posted: 8/14/2004 10:47:47 PM EDT

[#13]

Tagged for excellence! This is some of the best stuff I've ever seen on AR15.com

Posted: 8/14/2004 11:05:38 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Ask yourselves this....is it really a right when the government makes you pay for a class and pay a fee to exercise that right?

Let's start taxes for voting again! We can keep some of those unsavory people on welfare from voting then!

Let's charge people a tax if they want to have children. That ought to help keep the population down!

Let's charge newspapers a fee to be licensed newspapers and allowed to be published.

It's all the same thing. CCW is a privilege not a right as far as the state is concerned....just look on that little ID card they make you carry.

Let's start making Jews, Homosexuals and other undesireables carry "papers" again too....its the same thing, gun owners are the one minority it is OK to discriminate against.

If the theatre told me I couldn't wear my cross or star of david in there I could sue the shit out of them....denying me my right to carry is no different, yet somehow those among us believe it is.

The thing I love about this site is on one side of the spectrum people say I am the same thing as a gun grabber because I think blowing things up with tannerite is not constitutionally protected and irresponsible....then on the other side others think I am extremist for exercising my rights (so we do not lose them) and that by exercising these rights I am hurting everyone else's rights. No wonder half the time we lose battles for the RKBA.

We should be lobbying the state government to make concealed carry legal without a permit so long as you have no criminal intent. The people in other states in GD criticizing me are joyous at the fact that their states give them this "privilege" at all of hiding their self defense tools and at such a reasonable price too!...if freedom is your masters deciding you can do something, I want none of it!

How many of us (gun owners) would not support CCW without permits because we make money on charging people for classes? How many people that own machine guns will never lobby for the '86 ban to be lifted or for an amnesty because their $10,000 colt will only be worth $700? How many are bemoaning the AWB sunsetting because their "pre-ban" guns will be worth as much as a used post ban AR is now? Few people want to pay a personal price for liberty.

I know by open-carrying I risk being thrown out of any public establishment I go into. The price of exercising my rights and attempting to help the cause of freedom in this case was very low...a spoiled evening. However, what happenned to me and my friends has alerted everyone else to this business' policies, and that is a good thing! They are going to at the least be forced to put up signs now so that everyone knows they have a NO WEAPONS policy, and open-carriers and CCW holders alike can make an informed decision on where to spend their money.

When one lives in fear of exercising their rights, freedom no longer exists.

Well said!

Posted: 8/14/2004 11:07:56 PM EDT

[#15]

This was my response to the thread about this on Arizonashooting.com, wanted to share it here also!

Well I respect your opinion I must disagree comletly! I might not be understanding you correctly but as I read it your saying to hide our guns because if they dont see them maybe the'll forget we have that right and not try to change it or take it away! IMO a right is a right and in no meens should you be scared to exercise it because it might just offend someone! If we start thinking this way maybe next people will be saying "well yeah we have the right of freedom of speach, but you shouldnt say that because it might offend someone and get that right taken away"! Again I do respect your opinion but I totally dissagree!
There are many people that move here from places that dont allow open carry and just assume laws are the same here! If people would just be willing to help educate insted of trying to "hide" their rights I truly beleive many people would be understanding!
I'll give an example of an experiance I had while heading up North for a camping trip! We stopped in at the McDonalds in CampVerde "I was open carrying as I always do when I camp" and a young boy noticed my gun and I overheard him ask his mother why I had a gun! Her answer was "Well he must be a police officer"! I felt it appropriate to interject so I turned and told the mother "No M'am I'm not, just a citizen" she looked puzzeled and kind of freaked out so I talked to them for awhile and explained some of the gun laws in Arizona! I dont remember where she said she was from but she said they have only lived here a few months and where she came from NO ONE carried guns! We talked some more and she told me she grew up with guns and wasnt afraid of them but seeing someone carrying she just assumed they were a cop! She also explained how she was a single mother with a child and had thaought about buying a gun for protection but figured it was a large investment just to have around the house! To make a long story short our talk helped educate someone and she even asked me where a good place to get a CCW would be!
I dont buy into the idea that people cant be converted, after all I'm a transplant from an anti-gun state and never even owned a gun till I moved to Arizona!

Oh yeah! I got into guns when I asked my neighbor if he was a cop, since he was open carrying!

A right is a right! Exercise it or lose it! Educate or lose the battle!

Posted: 8/14/2004 11:32:29 PM EDT

[#16]

Good post AZGunnut.

Your story exemplifies why it is important to do so....the fact you yourself were "converted" because you saw your neighbor carrying going about his business.

Gun owners are too often put on the defensive from the get go. Take a look at most of our slogans and bumper stickers "From my cold dead hands" "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" to name a couple...these phrases are defensive and in even our own minds make us think we are fighting a losing battle.

how about "firearms safety begins with you!" "respect my rights and I'll respect yours" "ask me about the constitution."

Every time one of us goes to the range we should try to take a new shooter with us. One reason I try to get everyone here to come to the local matches is not only to improve their own skills, but to have a broader base of experience to talk to people about firearms from. People that don't understand carrying a gun for self defense, usually do understand competition, get them into it from there because it is fun and challenging and it will bring them around to seeing self defense as a valid reason too.

I'm an NRA certified Safety, Rifle, Shotgun, Pistol, and Personal Protection instructor....if anyone ever needs help taking out a group of new shooters I will volunteer my time and firearms for the instruction. All I ask is that they pay for ammunition.

Posted: 8/15/2004 1:37:24 AM EDT

[#17]

Of topic maybe????
I heard a story a while ago from some state (NH or Vermont?) where a politician (senator?) proposed that a tax be levied on anyone who "did not" own a gun.
Citing some old forgotten part of the state constitution or other law he proposed that everyone had a duty to be able to defend the state and therefore had a duty to bear arms....
Those who could not or chose not to where required to pay a tax instead... to make up for their inability/unwillingness to arm themselves....

Posted: 8/15/2004 9:57:31 AM EDT

[#18]

Sinistral wrote:

If the theatre told me I couldn't wear my cross or star of david in there I could sue the shit out of them....denying me my right to carry is no different, yet somehow those among us believe it is.

Going the full route of private property rights, I would argue that the theater SHOULD be able to prohibit you in these instances. Their property, their rules.

However, can you imagine anyone actually going someplace where a business did this? It wouldn't be a long-lasting business, that's for sure.

When I ran for Mayor of Glendale in 2002, I spoke before the state meeting of the Arizona Confederation of Motorcycle Clubs quarterly get together. This is a gathering of all officers from the state's MCs...from Sober Riders to Hell's Angels. It was held in one of the more "stereotypical" motorcycle clubhouses. Booze and guns, the aroma of leather and tobacco filled the air, and there were more people WITH tattoes than without.

And one person in a suit. Me.

During the course of my stump speech and Q&A, I was asked if I would support a city ordinance. Seems that Glendale PD is "asking" bars and such to prohibit the wearing of motorcycle "colors". Would I support a city ordinance, or take some other official action, that would PREVENT these business owners from discriminating against bikers.

Before I gave a direct answer, I relayed the plight of the gun owner...how I am discriminated against going into Fry's Electronics and other places that post No Gun signs...that I have to make a decision whether to cover my gun (and be illegal), put my gun in my car, or shop somewhere else. Depending on circumstances, I've done all three. But that I support the right of the business owner to make any decision about runnig their business.

This is the same thing. If AMC wanted to ban everyone but bald, overweight Jewish accountants, fine. Their business will soon go downhill. And, as I told the bikers, I'd certainly be out in front making a big stink about any business who did do that.

Now, this isn't going to be a popular opinion, I realize that. However, as I ALSO told the bikers, "The government powerful enough to dictate how a business is run is also powerful enough to force you to wear helmets."

So, while I agree that AMC has the right to do this, it doesn't make it morally right. And they know that now. :)

Posted: 8/15/2004 10:43:09 AM EDT

[#19]

In the end what will be accomplished?

AMC will put up no gun signs and those who normally carry CCW will be now be prohibited from carrying inside. Do you think AMC's insurance carrier will continue coverage if it becomes known to them that AMC is allowing armed guests in their theater? It is a domino effect possibly one day resulting in everyone being subject to metal detectors before entering so the theater can maintain insurance coverage.

Those of you that believe AMC putting up no gun signs will actually have an effect on business.....guess again.

CCW has been great for us because what they don't see can't hurt them or us.

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:04:10 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
In the end what will be accomplished?

AMC will put up no gun signs and those who normally carry CCW will be now be prohibited from carrying inside. Do you think AMC's insurance carrier will continue coverage if it becomes known to them that AMC is allowing armed guests in their theater? It is a domino effect possibly one day resulting in everyone being subject to metal detectors before entering so the theater can maintain insurance coverage.

Those of you that believe AMC putting up no gun signs will actually have an effect on business.....guess again.

CCW has been great for us because what they don't see can't hurt them or us.

However, CCW holders are ALREADY PROHIBITED from carrying in their theaters. Just because they "don't see it", doesn't mean you are not violating their policy and, therefore, ARS tresspassing statutes.

Let's see...what businesses have been affected by having "no gun" signs or, by extension, being overtly anti-gun:

Citibank - when a branch manager axed a FFL's account, gun owner calls changed their policy.

Wal-Mart - when Arizona (and other) stores posted "No Gun" signs, calls to Bentonville showed that this wasn't corporate policy. the local managers were admonished and "no gun" signs came down. Granted, they still dissaprove of open carry.

K-Mart - when Rosie O'Donnell made her collosal anti-gun statements on her show when Tom Selleck was guest, calls and letters got her fired from her job as the company's "spokesmodel"

Blockbuster Video - "No guns" signs went up all over hte US. Calls, letters and boycotts got them removed.

Fascinations (an AZ=based adult "toy" store) - posted "no guns" signs. Same thing. Concerted effort by gun owners got the signs removed.

So, yes Virginia, a concerted effort by gun owners CAN have an effect....

TimW
Phoenix
Practical Tactical, LLC

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:22:35 AM EDT

[#21]

So, Tim, youo were victimized by that damn Fascinations ban eh?

Bastards... how dare they!

Y-

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:25:12 AM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
So, Tim, youo were victimized by that damn Fascinations ban eh?
Bastards... how dare they!

Y-

Yes...and since Castle Boutique is posted, I can now shop for your ball gags at Fascinations. Did you get that brown-paper wrapped package yet?

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:26:57 AM EDT

[#23]

Yeah, thanks for the Coyote Brown ball gag... now I can S&M tactically..."Bring out the gimp!"

Ok, back to the main subject!

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:28:58 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Yeah, thanks for the Coyote Brown ball gag... now I can S&M tactically..."Bring out the gimp!"

Ok, back to the main subject!

Or that bondage harness made out of MOLLE webbing and fastex buckles....how'd that fit? :)

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:29:42 AM EDT

[#25]

But some of you are not getting the bigger picture.

Can AMC afford to operate without liability insurance? Probably not. Would an insurance company continue to offer liability coverage to AMC if they allow open carry? Again, probably not.

It isn't allways just a simple we hate guns. Maybe AMC was trying not to prohibit CCW by not having signs posted. Now someone comes along and decides to test them with open carry. Now AMC is forced into a corner with their insurance carrier. You know who will be the loser here. Yup, we will as gun owners.

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:42:44 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
But some of you are not getting the bigger picture.

Can AMC afford to operate without liability insurance? Probably not. Would an insurance company continue to offer liability coverage to AMC if they allow open carry? Again, probably not.

It isn't allways just a simple we hate guns. Maybe AMC was trying not to prohibit CCW by not having signs posted. Now someone comes along and decides to test them with open carry. Now AMC is forced into a corner with their insurance carrier. You know who will be the loser here. Yup, we will as gun owners.

AMC was trying to allow CCW by not posting their policies? Then why have the policy at all?

Posted: 8/15/2004 11:51:55 AM EDT

[#27]

Because they know what their customers don't see doesn't scare them and also wouldn't draw them undue attention from their insurance carrier.

We are just speculating but you can see the trouble that a business could have with allowing open carry.

Posted: 8/15/2004 1:19:59 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
But some of you are not getting the bigger picture.

Can AMC afford to operate without liability insurance? Probably not. Would an insurance company continue to offer liability coverage to AMC if they allow open carry? Again, probably not.

Well there are plenty of large corperations in Arizona that allow open carry and I'm sure they all have Insurance!
My Mother In-Law works for an insurance company so I asked her this question and she told me her company would not drop them for allowing the practice of open carry!
I do believe the theatre has the right to post signs but we also have the right to do something about it! As stated above when Wal-Mart posted their signs a big enough fuss was made that they took them down!
Never be scared to exercise your rights just because it might offend someone! Hell I see people with there pants hanging down to there knees and their underwear showing and that offends me but I still see it as there right to do it!

Posted: 8/15/2004 2:11:39 PM EDT

[#29]

Again, what is the 18-20 crowd supposed to do? Are we not entitled to personal protection? I waited a long damn time to be allowed to carry, and I'll be damned if I'm to go around unarmed for even longer just so I can be "PC".

Posted: 8/15/2004 2:24:38 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Because they know what their customers don't see doesn't scare them and also wouldn't draw them undue attention from their insurance carrier.

We are just speculating but you can see the trouble that a business could have with allowing open carry.

I don't agree with that assesment at all. You are fabricating an issue that doesn't exist. Lets take Walmart for example, they sell food, clothes, movies, appliances and kids toys. They also carry ammunition, knives and firearms. Not to mention I have carried several times into Walmart stores. They are for the most part a one stop shop for the entire family. They seem to be doing quite well and are insured.

Insurance companies are not stupid, they spend alot of money assesing risks and gains. Do you think they have somehow overlooked the fact Arizona is an open carry/ccw state? I hardly think so. So the theory of AMC "not drawing attention to themselves" is malarky.

Posted: 8/15/2004 2:25:44 PM EDT

[#31]

But some of you are not getting the bigger picture.

Some of us are getting the big picture.............are you?

Posted: 8/15/2004 3:09:23 PM EDT

[#32]

Biggame223.

You are a fuckhead for posting such a picture.

Posted: 8/15/2004 4:00:46 PM EDT

[#33]

Biggame223.

You are a fuckhead for posting such a picture

Well..........maybe you might finally realize what compromise brings to the "big picture"

You are ashamed to be a gun owner, and it appears you are willing to compromise MY rights......that is pathetic.

Have a nice day

Posted: 8/15/2004 4:14:19 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Biggame223.

You are a fuckhead for posting such a picture.

Innocent Bystander,

I would posit that it is YOU who are the fuckhead. I suppose you'd have counseled Rosa Parks to sit at the back so as to not upset the White Folk.

You would have likely told Susan B. Anthony to hold her tongue like a good woman should, so as to not upset the political machines.

18 year olds vote? Hell no, those immature brats.

A right unexercised might as well NOT be a right at all. AMCs policy EXCLUDES ALL GUNS, even those carried CCW. If you do go to AMC theaters, esp. now that you know, you are committing tresspass.

BG223 shows the end-game of compromise.

Just ask Neville "Peace in our Time" Chamberlain.

Just ask the Catholics, Gypsies and Jews under the Third Reich.

Or look at the picture.

Posted: 8/15/2004 4:25:22 PM EDT

[#35]

Innocent Bystander... you are a sheeple if I have ever seen one.
Yes, its a fucked up picture... but, its what is needed to get folks
like yourself and others here... to wake the hell up.

I can't fathom that some here...many here... want SR to be quiet about this
matter and not to raise the issue...Affraid that the added pressue and AMC will
somehow cause them some discomfort...

Wake the fuck up people...

Y-

Posted: 8/15/2004 4:40:25 PM EDT

[#36]

I have decided to open carry alot more often now. I agree with SR.

Posted: 8/15/2004 4:45:40 PM EDT

[#37]

Nevermind.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:03:59 PM EDT

[#38]

Trying to keep up with three threads going on the subject.

My personal belief is that CCW should be allowed without permit to all law abiding citizens. Open carry should be reserved for LEO, security and others with special needs to open carry. This is the way that the carry law in (pre Mandella) South Africa was written. Jeff Cooper was a strong proponent of the law being written this way.

I apologize for the name calling but trying to compare my beliefs to those of the Nazis set me off.

Twenty years ago I had gun racks in my '73 Bronco and they were filled with rifles on the weekends. Twenty years ago open carry would not have set off alarms. Arizona is becoming more like California every day. Open carry scares the sheeple and the result is them trying to strip us of more of our rights.

These threads are going the same way the old threads did when I tried to persuade the protesters of the MMM not to show up armed. They screamed it was their right to show up with ARs across their backs to walk around Patriot's Square protesting MMM.

A right it was. Sensible it was not.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:17:24 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
These threads are going the same way the old threads did when I tried to persuade the protesters of the MMM not to show up armed. They screamed it was their right to show up with ARs across their backs to walk around Patriot's Square protesting MMM.

A right it was. Sensible it was not.

Who did the police have to restrain at the MMM? The Million Moms that cursed at us screamed profanities. We simply went about our business, protested peacefully. The Million Moms made themselves look like the irrational fools more prone to violence that they are. Has there been another MMM in AZ since then? Nope, none. There are annual second amendment freedom confrences held in Phoenix that are national events. There haven't been any gun laws passed here since then either....that was 4 years ago.

Myself and my family were there, as were many other members of the forum. They didn't stay at home because they were afraid the million moms would make false accusations of assault against them, nor because they were afraid the government would be photographing them and taking records of who attended.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:19:28 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Trying to keep up with three threads going on the subject.

My personal belief is that CCW should be allowed without permit to all law abiding citizens. Open carry should be reserved for LEO, security and others with special needs to open carry. This is the way that the carry law in (pre Mandella) South Africa was written. Jeff Cooper was a strong proponent of the law being written this way.

I apologize for the name calling but trying to compare my beliefs to those of the Nazis set me off.

Twenty years ago I had gun racks in my '73 Bronco and they were filled with rifles on the weekends. Twenty years ago open carry would not have set off alarms. Arizona is becoming more like California every day. Open carry scares the sheeple and the result is them trying to strip us of more of our rights.

These threads are going the same way the old threads did when I tried to persuade the protesters of the MMM not to show up armed. They screamed it was their right to show up with ARs across their backs to walk around Patriot's Square protesting MMM.

A right it was. Sensible it was not.

I respect your opinion, but I will say I don't agree with it. I do agree people should be able to carry concelaed without a permit, but I don't think open carry should be reserved for anyone. Its our right as free citizens here. If you compromise on the little things, it will snowball into the bigger ones. Just my opinion.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:19:46 PM EDT

[#41]

Russ,

As I recall you were one of the sensible ones that did not protest while armed.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:27:32 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
Russ,

As I recall you were one of the sensible ones that did not protest while armed.

I wasn't 18 at the time either...later protests I did attend open carrying.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:40:26 PM EDT

[#43]

Open carry has saved me from unnecessary confrontations in the ghetto-hood. At times it is more valuable than concealed carry, unless one is hell bent on ambushing trolls and being late for supper.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:47:04 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Open carry has saved me from unnecessary confrontations in the ghetto-hood. At times it is more valuable than concealed carry, unless one is hell bent on ambushing trolls and being late for supper.

I have had similar experiences.....walk into a gas station and see "questionable looking" individuals decide it is time to leave, or see them walk in spot me and decide to go someplace else.

As I posted before many businesses and store employees are more than happy to have you carry in their locations. Many of the restaurants around or shop welcome the presence of my friends and myself open carrying in there.

Posted: 8/15/2004 5:57:51 PM EDT

[#45]

Imagine if someone had their gun...open carry or concealed when that guy drove his pick-up into the Luby's in Kileeen, Tx. and killed so damn many people.

It all in the past... but... I'm sure you see the point I am attempting to make.

Y-

Posted: 8/15/2004 8:16:56 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
But some of you are not getting the bigger picture.

Can AMC afford to operate without liability insurance? Probably not. Would an insurance company continue to offer liability coverage to AMC if they allow open carry? Again, probably not.

It isn't allways just a simple we hate guns. Maybe AMC was trying not to prohibit CCW by not having signs posted. Now someone comes along and decides to test them with open carry. Now AMC is forced into a corner with their insurance carrier. You know who will be the loser here. Yup, we will as gun owners.

Glad to hear you’re more concerned with the AMC (an anti-gun establishment) then with your “friend” Russell…

Well lucky for them...there is an insurance program backed by the NRA... How do I know this? This is where I get our multimillion-dollar policy from...

Posted: 8/15/2004 10:06:26 PM EDT

[#47]

I apologize for the name calling but trying to compare my beliefs to those of the Nazis set me off.

No one called you a nazi, no one inferred you were a nazi.......

The pic is disgusting, but it is required from time to time to remind some of us of the folly of compromise when it comes to ones rights.

Posted: 8/16/2004 5:14:00 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:

Glad to hear you’re more concerned with the AMC (an anti-gun establishment) then with your “friend” Russell…

Well lucky for them...there is an insurance program backed by the NRA... How do I know this? This is where I get our multimillion-dollar policy from...

Shawn,

That's not the case at all. I am concerned about Russ' well being.

Edited................

I also agree that the mixed 18 and 21 years of majority written into ARS 13:31 are wrong. Eighteen, the point at which you can serve in the US military, should be the age of majority for everything.

edited for spelling

Posted: 8/16/2004 6:33:56 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Well, School starts again soon... maybe some of the problem will have to go back. But I'm afraid we might have a liberal infestation.

It's more like a "Sportsman" infestation. Like that group of guys that think 2A is about being able to hunt pheasant or shoot at spinning disks.

Hey, a pest is a pest, an infestation is an infestation. We are having similar problems here in Ohio.... people dissing open carry because "CHL" is now legal, all this "just CHL, don't make waves" BS... I say you don't exercise a right, you soon LOOSE that right.... plus OPEN carry doesn't COST as much... ;)

_I'm_ a liberal, but I'll be damned if I stop open carrying because a few bully types try to intimidate me by inciting police harrasment etc... where is the holder of the RAID anyway?!? ;)

Phoque that. I'm gonna be tracking down the "reality" of the situation then help organize a boycoott against someone... AMC or Vestar - and/or Vestar's holdig company... we

Krogers, and MicrioCenter... what's AMC? ;)

Posted: 8/16/2004 7:37:45 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
I say you don't exercise a right, you soon LOOSE that right....

+1

The more people open carry, the more normal it will be. And that's the truth we have to get across to the sheep - that it's not just crooks-n-cops that carry, it is fine, upstanding citizens that carry.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - KICKED OUT OF AMC THEATRES! (Page 2 of 4)

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