I could only afford two, so my opinion is buying three more lowers should be considered hoarding receivers and that person is not going to heavenhinking.gif

Quoted: I could only afford two, so my opinion is buying three more lowers should be considered hoarding receivers and that person is not going to heaven

Haha. Since I have 7 reg'd ARs already my 4 new lowers are just frills.

But then St Peter is gonna kick my ugly arse out for a variety of other reasons anyway ;)

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: scream about what?  Scream that you can buy the raw componnets of a FABforgery?  the law already prevents anyone from assembling them into an AW. Addidnt them to the list presumably allows them to be built into AW's. HCI & VPC will have more to scream about if the list is updated than if it is not. Option 1.  Do nothing and people are stuck with FABforgeries with no new assaut weapons in the state. Option 2.  Update the list and DOJ has allowed the manufacture of thousands of new AWs in the state. Apparantly, you still don't get it... Sheesh, man! *sigh* Someone else summed it up this way. Reporter: "AG Lockyer, we've heard that you allowed untold thousands of of new, un-named assault weapons into the state. Would you care to respond to that?" Lockyer: "Senate bill SB23, which went into effect in the year 2000, prevents the importation or assembly of any new assault weapons into the great state of California, and provides for the felony prosecution of doing so. The only thing we are aware of is the sale of non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon. Anyone who converts one into an assault weapon will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." Thats the smartest way for DOJ to respond. Then... Reporter: AG Lockyer, it's it true that these so called "non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon" are IDENTICLE to the ASSAULT WEAPONS already listed on the Kassler list except that they merely are marked with either a different manufacturer name and modle name or both? Lockyer: Uhh, well, yes, they are. Reporter: Again, the statement you just made, these are your own words, where you said they were "non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon" can be readily made to be ASSAULT WEAPONS, barring Police Agencies having a crystal ball to "detect" those who won't obey SB23, since we all know people who commit murder already disobey the law regarding murder, what's to stop them from making these "non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon" into actual assault weapons? Lockyer: Well, we have the law, SB23 says that they can't make them into assault weapons, so, we're counting on the citizens of California to obey the law. Reporter: That is like saying "Excuse me Mr. Badguy, but you CANT kill your boss and coworkers with that home made ILLEGAL assault weapon, but it's ok to use a weapon that is NOT an assault weapon, such as a Mini-14 or a SU16 to kill them. That's just not going to work. What do you think you could have done to prevent these unlisted recievers that are in essence, assault weapons, just not yet listed, from arriving in California placing Californians in further danger from these weapons? Lockyer: Well, *cough*, umm, well, uhhh, we could have done our jobs and continued to list these "variants" individually thus preventing them from becomming the commerce that they have become. Reporter: That sounds great, in a perfect world. Why didn't you? Lockyer: We were analyzing the problem to determine what would have been the best course of action. Reporter: In otherwords, you could have done something, but instead, you chose to do nothing. Lockyer: We are doing something.... We're still analyzing the problem. Reporter: Of course, and do you think that our current Assault Weapons laws in California have erradicated assault weapons and the threat of new assault weapons into California. Lockyer: Umm, well, *cough* umm, no. I'm sorry, I'm very busy working on this issue, no more questions... But remember to VOTE FOR ME for TREASURER! Reporter: Thank you AG Lockyer, in being asleep at the wheel, we now have many more of these potential BULLET HOSES flooding the streets...... Do you get it yet???

First of all... I like you Wizard and this is NO shot to you.

YOU give reporters tooooo much credit. Reporters are fucking stupid. They fucking get lost when giving them directions to the bathroom. When I was interviewed for Dateline NBC the reporter was asking me questions on the SKS... as I was talking his eyes just fucking glazed over.

Perhaps you're discounting the fact that lockyear has screwed enough gun owners in his career and had made the proposition of him attaining even higher elected office sufficiently scarry to gun owners, that a po'd gunny might pull a reporter aside and school them enough to torpedo him.  

Quoted: YOU give reporters tooooo much credit. Reporters are fucking stupid. They fucking get lost when giving them directions to the bathroom. When I was interviewed for Dateline NBC the reporter was asking me questions on the SKS... as I was talking his eyes just fucking glazed over.

Wow, you actually SPOKE to media?

I try to avoid them like the plague. When one of my patients passed away with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, the media called my office, basically local news and Telemundo... I told them to call the CDC.

Quoted: Wow, you actually SPOKE to media?

Dunno about DrFridge, but a couple of LA Times reporters have me on a list of gun nuts to call whenever there's a gun-related story.

I'm thinking of calling them about this "loophole."  Might be fun to watch the ants run around.

Quoted: .... a couple of LA Times reporters have me on a list of gun nuts to call whenever there's a gun-related story. I'm thinking of calling them about this "loophole."  Might be fun to watch the ants run around.

Hi Mesa...

Please, please, do NOT call them (yet)...  please check your IM.  Please coordinate w/Calguns folks.

Let's not let things get outta hand in a direction we don't want.  It's only been around 30 days since off-list lowers really started flowing in, and it was a holiday season.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Quoted: Quoted: .... a couple of LA Times reporters have me on a list of gun nuts to call whenever there's a gun-related story. I'm thinking of calling them about this "loophole."  Might be fun to watch the ants run around. Hi Mesa... Please, please, do NOT call them (yet)...  please check your IM.  Please coordinate w/Calguns folks. Let's not let things get outta hand in a direction we don't want.  It's only been around 30 days since off-list lowers really started flowing in, and it was a holiday season. Bill Wiese San Jose CA

Not to mention you might light a fire that could burn you as well.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: scream about what?  Scream that you can buy the raw componnets of a FABforgery?  the law already prevents anyone from assembling them into an AW. Addidnt them to the list presumably allows them to be built into AW's. HCI & VPC will have more to scream about if the list is updated than if it is not. Option 1.  Do nothing and people are stuck with FABforgeries with no new assaut weapons in the state. Option 2.  Update the list and DOJ has allowed the manufacture of thousands of new AWs in the state. Apparantly, you still don't get it... Sheesh, man! *sigh* Someone else summed it up this way. Reporter: "AG Lockyer, we've heard that you allowed untold thousands of of new, un-named assault weapons into the state. Would you care to respond to that?" Lockyer: "Senate bill SB23, which went into effect in the year 2000, prevents the importation or assembly of any new assault weapons into the great state of California, and provides for the felony prosecution of doing so. The only thing we are aware of is the sale of non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon. Anyone who converts one into an assault weapon will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law." Thats the smartest way for DOJ to respond. Then... Reporter: AG Lockyer, it's it true that these so called "non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon" are IDENTICLE to the ASSAULT WEAPONS already listed on the Kassler list except that they merely are marked with either a different manufacturer name and modle name or both? Lockyer: Uhh, well, yes, they are. Reporter: Again, the statement you just made, these are your own words, where you said they were "non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon" can be readily made to be ASSAULT WEAPONS, barring Police Agencies having a crystal ball to "detect" those who won't obey SB23, since we all know people who commit murder already disobey the law regarding murder, what's to stop them from making these "non functioning, unassembled, firearm recievers which do not meet the classification of an assault weapon" into actual assault weapons? Lockyer: Well, we have the law, SB23 says that they can't make them into assault weapons, so, we're counting on the citizens of California to obey the law. Reporter: That is like saying "Excuse me Mr. Badguy, but you CANT kill your boss and coworkers with that home made ILLEGAL assault weapon, but it's ok to use a weapon that is NOT an assault weapon, such as a Mini-14 or a SU16 to kill them. That's just not going to work. What do you think you could have done to prevent these unlisted recievers that are in essence, assault weapons, just not yet listed, from arriving in California placing Californians in further danger from these weapons? Lockyer: Well, *cough*, umm, well, uhhh, we could have done our jobs and continued to list these "variants" individually thus preventing them from becomming the commerce that they have become. Reporter: That sounds great, in a perfect world. Why didn't you? Lockyer: We were analyzing the problem to determine what would have been the best course of action. Reporter: In otherwords, you could have done something, but instead, you chose to do nothing. Lockyer: We are doing something.... We're still analyzing the problem. Reporter: Of course, and do you think that our current Assault Weapons laws in California have erradicated assault weapons and the threat of new assault weapons into California. Lockyer: Umm, well, *cough* umm, no. I'm sorry, I'm very busy working on this issue, no more questions... But remember to VOTE FOR ME for TREASURER! Reporter: Thank you AG Lockyer, in being asleep at the wheel, we now have many more of these potential BULLET HOSES flooding the streets...... Do you get it yet??? First of all... I like you Wizard and this is NO shot to you. YOU give reporters tooooo much credit. Reporters are fucking stupid. They fucking get lost when giving them directions to the bathroom. When I was interviewed for Dateline NBC the reporter was asking me questions on the SKS... as I was talking his eyes just fucking glazed over.

Doc,

Ya got me there! Reporters are fucking stupid. Hmm, well, that shoots my thoughts all to hell. I just heard the sound of brakes screeching in my head.

Quoted: Quoted: YOU give reporters tooooo much credit. Reporters are fucking stupid. They fucking get lost when giving them directions to the bathroom. When I was interviewed for Dateline NBC the reporter was asking me questions on the SKS... as I was talking his eyes just fucking glazed over. Wow, you actually SPOKE to media? I try to avoid them like the plague. When one of my patients passed away with Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease, the media called my office, basically local news and Telemundo... I told them to call the CDC.

Yeah I was in Turners picking up an SKS and there they were trying to find someone that would talk to them. Mind you this was like the 3rd gun i EVER bought so I didnt know much about the anti-gun media. After I was interviewed, I was all excited that I was gonna be on Dateline. manager of the store says, "the closest you are gonna get is on the editing room floor"

I was confused and asked "why?" He said " That was NBC and they are anti gun. Everything you said about the SKS was positive and you sounded like a responsible gun owner. Dont get your hopes up"

Well like 3 months later when they aired the story, They showed the store, they showed all the pretty SKS's on the rack... But NO DR FRIGE!!"

Letters sent to individuals regarding this matter from the California Dept of Justice do not provide any type of protection in this matter. AR 15 lower receivers that are not currently named specifically can be legally imported into the state of California. The Harrot decision makes this legal and possible. These lowers can be built into rifles utilizing a “fixed 10 round” magazine, thus complying with SB 23.  

The California DOJ has not added these “unnamed” lowers to the list at this time. A friend of mine is an FFL and has considered importing them into the state of California for his customers. I have known him for over six years, and would find it hard to believe that he would lie to me for any reason. He called the California DOJ to receive confirmation as any responsible business person would do. He was told that at this time the receivers were legal to purchase, but warned him of 58 DA’s that would be sure to prosecute him. The representative told him that all 15 plus different brands at this time were legal to purchase, but that may change sometime in the future. My friend was a little stunned at the amount of different types of lowers, but the representative stated that individuals would either write or call asking if a specific model was legal and the DOJ would make note of it.

The representative also stated that at one point, in early December that the small handful of lowers that were known at the time would be added to the list. The representative then explained that the surge of activity in this matter has forced them to reconsider the matter of adding them to the Kasler list. There could be nearly 20 different brands. My friend thanked her for the information and continued about his business.

The California DOJ has plenty of time to decide the best course of action in this matter. There are probably some 4000 “unnamed” receivers that have been brought into the state of California, and the California DOJ has not updated the “list”. The sun has not exploded, and most residents of the state of California go on oblivious to the fact that any receivers have entered the state. I have seen plenty of the new “carbon 15 Bushmaster” in stores, yet I have seen no news reports about “black rifles”. I am not sure if the California DOJ will add these “unnamed lowers” to the list. SB 23 pretty much makes these into FAB 10 lowers. I can tell you that it might be a while if they do, just to make sure they have as many receivers as possible.

Quoted: Letters sent to individuals regarding this matter from the California Dept of Justice do not provide any type of protection in this matter. AR 15 lower receivers that are not currently named specifically can be legally imported into the state of California. The Harrot decision makes this legal and possible. These lowers can be built into rifles utilizing a “fixed 10 round” magazine, thus complying with SB 23.   The California DOJ has not added these “unnamed” lowers to the list at this time. A friend of mine is an FFL and has considered importing them into the state of California for his customers. I have known him for over six years, and would find it hard to believe that he would lie to me for any reason. He called the California DOJ to receive confirmation as any responsible business person would do. He was told that at this time the receivers were legal to purchase, but warned him of 58 DA’s that would be sure to prosecute him. The representative told him that all 15 plus different brands at this time were legal to purchase, but that may change sometime in the future. My friend was a little stunned at the amount of different types of lowers, but the representative stated that individuals would either write or call asking if a specific model was legal and the DOJ would make note of it. The representative also stated that at one point, in early December that the small handful of lowers that were known at the time would be added to the list. The representative then explained that the surge of activity in this matter has forced them to reconsider the matter of adding them to the Kasler list. There could be nearly 20 different brands. My friend thanked her for the information and continued about his business. The California DOJ has plenty of time to decide the best course of action in this matter. There are probably some 4000 “unnamed” receivers that have been brought into the state of California, and the California DOJ has not updated the “list”. The sun has not exploded, and most residents of the state of California go on oblivious to the fact that any receivers have entered the state. I have seen plenty of the new “carbon 15 Bushmaster” in stores, yet I have seen no news reports about “black rifles”. I am not sure if the California DOJ will add these “unnamed lowers” to the list. SB 23 pretty much makes these into FAB 10 lowers. I can tell you that it might be a while if they do, just to make sure they have as many receivers as possible.

the number of brands are way over 20 dude

20.30. Whatever. The more lowers they have to add, the longer it will take, and the more time the DOJ will have to reconsider putting these lowers on the list. If the CA DOJ thought that this was such an "emergency", I think they would have added these lowers immediately.

The Department of Justice is smart enough to know that this is not an emerency, but it is an urgent matter for them.  

The DOJ will do a first cut with the 10-15 or 20 lowers they've seen in commerce and/or have ordered themselves (the DOJ has an FFL license - they can order guns & receivers themselves, apparently for official work).  

They will then just peruse this and other websites and Shotgun News and Gun List for new models/brands.  

Their goal will not necessarily to be 100% ban but just to do an ongoing damned-good job.  If a few off-list lowers here and there get sold, that's fine.  They might miss a few.  (In fact these few may stay in limbo for some time and not get declared as AWs.)   Another cycle of name games may begin but last a much, much shorter time.  They'll have their policies & procedures in place, and can probably streamline the CCR updates into Secy of State's office...

Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

How popular do you think Star-15's are. Do you think those will be added to the first batch?

Quoted: How popular do you think Star-15's are. Do you think those will be added to the first batch?

My friends and I all bought Doublestars and according to my FFL, they now make up the majority of his incoming brands.  There are also a couple group buys of DStars going on right now at Calguns so I think they're pretty well represented.  Mine look great.

Quoted: The DOJ will do a first cut with the 10-15 or 20 lowers they've seen in commerce and/or have ordered themselves (the DOJ has an FFL license - they can order guns & receivers themselves, apparently for official work).   They will then just peruse this and other websites and Shotgun News and Gun List for new models/brands.

Hey, DoJ, don't forget SunDevil Manufacturing out of Arizona!

LMAO!!!!!!!!!


Hey, DoJ, don't forget SunDevil Manufacturing out of Arizona! www.okaygood.com/icons/wave.gif