DOJ Update on Status - UPDATE 2/2 - Page 2

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Posted: 1/29/2006 10:43:00 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Individual FAL-related models - or as a series - must go thru a PC 12276.5 add-on motion in certain superior courts.

Bill - Is this a quick process? Could a temporary ban be put in place in like a few days??

I think it indeed could. And you might well not hear of it until after it happened, when the temporary ban kicks in.

I do not expect this to happen before AR/AK matters are dealt with via Kasler list update(s), though.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Posted: 1/29/2006 10:49:50 AM EDT

[#2]

come on Lauer Custom Weaponry! hail.gif

Posted: 1/29/2006 12:10:36 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
come on Lauer Custom Weaponry!

Please do not wait for a specific brand of lower. Get any lower as soon as you can.

All off-list lowers today will build 100% functional, accurate rifles.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Posted: 1/29/2006 10:01:40 PM EDT

[#4]

I have a bushmaster carbon 15 m4 in nevada, do I just need to remove the upper, stock and pistol grip, bring the lower to my house in cali. and register it if it is listed?

Posted: 1/29/2006 10:55:46 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
I have a bushmaster carbon 15 m4 in nevada, do I just need to remove the upper, stock and pistol grip, bring the lower to my house in cali. and register it if it is listed?

You won't be able to reg, i believe, unless you are a CA resident - if & when that happens.

I also assume this is a Bushy Carbon 15 m4 that has an open magwell (that is, NOT Californicated).

You may likely be legal. Please let me know EXACTLY what the sideplate on your receiver says. If is says "Professional Ordnance" no way, otherwise it should be good.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Posted: 1/29/2006 11:08:29 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a bushmaster carbon 15 m4 in nevada, do I just need to remove the upper, stock and pistol grip, bring the lower to my house in cali. and register it if it is listed?

You won't be able to reg, i believe, unless you are a CA resident - if & when that happens.

I also assume this is a Bushy Carbon 15 m4 that has an open magwell (that is, NOT Californicated).

You may likely be legal. Please let me know EXACTLY what the sideplate on your receiver says. If is says "Professional Ordnance" no way, otherwise it should be good.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

It does not say P.O. , Bushmaster carbon-15 ( open magwell ). Do you know how they qualify a resident? I do not have a CA drivers license, I do have utility bills, etc. in my name with my CA address. Thanks

Posted: 1/30/2006 1:29:05 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a bushmaster carbon 15 m4 in nevada, do I just need to remove the upper, stock and pistol grip, bring the lower to my house in cali. and register it if it is listed?

You won't be able to reg, i believe, unless you are a CA resident - if & when that happens.

I also assume this is a Bushy Carbon 15 m4 that has an open magwell (that is, NOT Californicated).

You may likely be legal. Please let me know EXACTLY what the sideplate on your receiver says. If is says "Professional Ordnance" no way, otherwise it should be good.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Bill, What about those people who bought the Californicated Carbon 15's? Could one modify it to accept removable 10 RD Mag after DOJ list the Carbon 15 receiver? (providing they re-register it as a AW within the 90 days)

Posted: 1/30/2006 7:50:47 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
It does not say P.O. , Bushmaster carbon-15 ( open magwell ). Do you know how they qualify a resident? I do not have a CA drivers license, I do have utility bills, etc. in my name with my CA address. Thanks

Well a Bushmaster carbon-15 is not listed.

You could fix that nondetachable 10rd mag. Since you have the CDL etc you could reg it if this particular make/model gets listed.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Posted: 1/30/2006 7:52:49 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Bill, What about those people who bought the Californicated Carbon 15's? Could one modify it to accept removable 10 RD Mag after DOJ list the Carbon 15 receiver? (providing they re-register it as a AW within the 90 days)

I believe Californicated rifles will NEVER be declared AWs. So the Calif Carbon15s, the FAB10s etc. will never get declared as AWs by DOJ (because they certified them for sale in CA). Thus they could never have a removable mag..... so modifying one of these would just tear it up for no reason.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Posted: 1/30/2006 8:24:19 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Do you know how they qualify a resident? I do not have a CA drivers license, I do have utility bills, etc. in my name with my CA address. Thanks

I know a person who is a legal resident of two states. He has a DL for one state and a state ID card for the other. Its federal law that you can have only one DL. The state ID card lets him cash checks etc. when he's there.

Posted: 1/30/2006 2:22:55 PM EDT

[#11]

<------------Kali escapee

Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you know how they qualify a resident? I do not have a CA drivers license, I do have utility bills, etc. in my name with my CA address. Thanks

I know a person who is a legal resident of two states. He has a DL for one state and a state ID card for the other. Its federal law that you can have only one DL. The state ID card lets him cash checks etc. when he's there.

Not quite accurate--FL, for example, will issue a "valid in FL only" DL so you can keep another state's DL to drive in the other 49 states.

Quoted:
That sucking sound you here is all the lowers available getting sucked in to CA now. That blup you might hear will be that last one flying by. (Yeah I'm a believer now.)

Still plenty of receivers floating around N.C. at the fun shows and dealers here.........

Bill W.......Glad to see you're still on top of things for the CA guys, I still think you should break into the law field regarding 2A rights...you'd be a valuable asset

Posted: 1/30/2006 6:24:15 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
<------------Kali escapee

Quoted:
Quoted:
Do you know how they qualify a resident? I do not have a CA drivers license, I do have utility bills, etc. in my name with my CA address. Thanks

I know a person who is a legal resident of two states. He has a DL for one state and a state ID card for the other. Its federal law that you can have only one DL. The state ID card lets him cash checks etc. when he's there.

Not quite accurate--FL, for example, will issue a "valid in FL only" DL so you can keep another state's DL to drive in the other 49 states.

Quoted:
That sucking sound you here is all the lowers available getting sucked in to CA now. That blup you might hear will be that last one flying by. (Yeah I'm a believer now.)

Still plenty of receivers floating around N.C. at the fun shows and dealers here.........

Bill W.......Glad to see you're still on top of things for the CA guys, I still think you should break into the law field regarding 2A rights...you'd be a valuable asset

Not surprising if they are from mfrs that are already on the list, I should have said CA potential lowers.

Posted: 2/1/2006 12:27:39 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

I believe Californicated rifles will NEVER be declared AWs. So the Calif Carbon15s, the FAB10s etc. will never get declared as AWs by DOJ (because they certified them for sale in CA). Thus they could never have a removable mag..... so modifying one of these would just tear it up for no reason.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Hi. I don't understand your comment. Wouldn't a Californicated Carbon-15 have exactly the same status as an offlist lower, since in theory off list lowers must be built into exactly what a Californicated rifle is - a fixed magazine top-loading rifle? I also thought I specifically saw mention of the Carbon-15 in DOJ internal documents. Or am I missing something here? Any help would be appreciated as I'm concerned about the future status of my Carbon-15 Cali version.

On another note, the Carbon-15's fixed magazine does not have a base plate, so for the other individual that discussed modification, you'd more than likely have some problems doing the modification.

Posted: 2/1/2006 7:23:01 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I believe Californicated rifles will NEVER be declared AWs. So the Calif Carbon15s, the FAB10s etc. will never get declared as AWs by DOJ (because they certified them for sale in CA). Thus they could never have a removable mag..... so modifying one of these would just tear it up for no reason.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Hi. I don't understand your comment. Wouldn't a Californicated Carbon-15 have exactly the same status as an offlist lower, since in theory off list lowers must be built into exactly what a Californicated rifle is - a fixed magazine top-loading rifle? I also thought I specifically saw mention of the Carbon-15 in DOJ internal documents. Or am I missing something here? Any help would be appreciated as I'm concerned about the future status of my Carbon-15 Cali version.

On another note, the Carbon-15's fixed magazine does not have a base plate, so for the other individual that discussed modification, you'd more than likely have some problems doing the modification.

Actually there really isn't a problem doing the modification. I bought one in december along with a friend. This friend has since moved to AZ. He brought his Carbon with him and we took it apart. The interal magazine is just a 30 rd mag with half of it taken off. He took a dremel and cut the bottom out and now it takes magazines. I was hoping when CA DOJ adds the Carbon-15 to the list, I could do the same. But oh well... I'm in CA.

Posted: 2/1/2006 10:18:33 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I believe Californicated rifles will NEVER be declared AWs. So the Calif Carbon15s, the FAB10s etc. will never get declared as AWs by DOJ (because they certified them for sale in CA). Thus they could never have a removable mag..... so modifying one of these would just tear it up for no reason.

I don't understand your comment. Wouldn't a Californicated Carbon-15 have exactly the same status as an offlist lower, since in theory off list lowers must be built into exactly what a Californicated rifle is - a fixed magazine top-loading rifle? I also thought I specifically saw mention of the Carbon-15 in DOJ internal documents. Or am I missing something here? Any help would be appreciated as I'm concerned about the future status of my Carbon-15 Cali version.

While naming issues do apply in general, the Californicated Carbon15 is substantively different from a regular Bushy Carbon 15. [The original Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 was banned by name on original Kasler list in 2000.]

I believe anything that was 'approved' for sale in CA (FAB10, Californicated Carbon15, etc.) will not be made eligible for registration. The DOJ is not gonna want to reverse itself saying it actually approved some assault weapons - they will say these are substantially different from open magwell guns.

The fact that naming can sometimes be irrelevent is demonstrated by the fact that GB Sales is welding up Colt and Bushmaster lowers for Californicated fixed-mag setups - and this was APPROVED by DOJ. These guns are banned by make/model yet legal to acquire after 2000.

(Being approved is much different than a grudging letter saying that what you are buying is technically not illegal but it will be declared as an AW soon - which is what folks who were asking about off-list lowers were receiving.)

Bottom line: if you have a Californicated Carbon 15, it is most likely going to remain a regular rifle in CA. The ban will be for the regular Bushy Carbon 15 open-magwell. I am wondering how DOJ will specify this - there may be a slight model # difference between these two lowers?

Even if you opened the CA Carbon 15 magwell yourself and affixed a 10rd fixed mag, it won't be eligible for registration - this is kinda like the 80% lower situation I wrote about (and which you should not do).

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Posted: 2/1/2006 9:55:33 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have a bushmaster carbon 15 m4 in nevada, do I just need to remove the upper, stock and pistol grip, bring the lower to my house in cali. and register it if it is listed?

You won't be able to reg, i believe, unless you are a CA resident - if & when that happens.

I also assume this is a Bushy Carbon 15 m4 that has an open magwell (that is, NOT Californicated).

You may likely be legal. Please let me know EXACTLY what the sideplate on your receiver says. If is says "Professional Ordnance" no way, otherwise it should be good.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

didnt need to necessarily be a resident to register with california..
i know some people out of state who did it. but if its already listed , forgetboutit. if off list register when and if our time comes. if its listed already, it can only enter PRK with a fixed 10 rnd mag, or remove the pistol grip

Posted: 2/2/2006 12:42:32 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

I believe Californicated rifles will NEVER be declared AWs. So the Calif Carbon15s, the FAB10s etc. will never get declared as AWs by DOJ (because they certified them for sale in CA). Thus they could never have a removable mag..... so modifying one of these would just tear it up for no reason.

I don't understand your comment. Wouldn't a Californicated Carbon-15 have exactly the same status as an offlist lower, since in theory off list lowers must be built into exactly what a Californicated rifle is - a fixed magazine top-loading rifle? I also thought I specifically saw mention of the Carbon-15 in DOJ internal documents. Or am I missing something here? Any help would be appreciated as I'm concerned about the future status of my Carbon-15 Cali version.

While naming issues do apply in general, the Californicated Carbon15 is substantively different from a regular Bushy Carbon 15. [The original Professional Ordnance Carbon 15 was banned by name on original Kasler list in 2000.]

I believe anything that was 'approved' for sale in CA (FAB10, Californicated Carbon15, etc.) will not be made eligible for registration. The DOJ is not gonna want to reverse itself saying it actually approved some assault weapons - they will say these are substantially different from open magwell guns.

The fact that naming can sometimes be irrelevent is demonstrated by the fact that GB Sales is welding up Colt and Bushmaster lowers for Californicated fixed-mag setups - and this was APPROVED by DOJ. These guns are banned by make/model yet legal to acquire after 2000.

(Being approved is much different than a grudging letter saying that what you are buying is technically not illegal but it will be declared as an AW soon - which is what folks who were asking about off-list lowers were receiving.)

Bottom line: if you have a Californicated Carbon 15, it is most likely going to remain a regular rifle in CA. The ban will be for the regular Bushy Carbon 15 open-magwell. I am wondering how DOJ will specify this - there may be a slight model # difference between these two lowers?

Even if you opened the CA Carbon 15 magwell yourself and affixed a 10rd fixed mag, it won't be eligible for registration - this is kinda like the 80% lower situation I wrote about (and which you should not do).

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Awesome explanation as usual, thank you. :) Dissapointing for me however. I recall during the last registration period in 2000, I simply filled out a white card and shot it back to the DOJ. Would it be feasible to "force" registration of my Carbon-15 by filling out the form anyways? LOL

At any rate, I guess I'll go pickup a Vulcan carbon then. Heh.

Posted: 2/2/2006 9:43:59 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Awesome explanation as usual, thank you. :) Dissapointing for me however. I recall during the last registration period in 2000, I simply filled out a white card and shot it back to the DOJ.

Would it be feasible to "force" registration of my Carbon-15 by filling out the form anyways? LOL

At any rate, I guess I'll go pickup a Vulcan carbon then. Heh.

No, please do NOT try to 'force' a reg. Regs are only for the guns specified and intended to be reg'd - it does not allow anything & everything to be reg'd, nor is it an amnesty or 'catch-up' reg period.

Even if you managed to get reg papers back it could, on audit, be ruled invalid. And at that time you'd then be possessing an unreg'd lower with evil features (assuming you dropped the fixed mag once you'd had your papers back).

Go get a true off-list receiver. I hope you are getting some real metal receivers too as this is a purchase for a lifetime. Get a C15 off-list lower for fun, but don't make it your only one. I do not know how reliable/tested C15 lowers are, how they handle stress in the rear ring, how resistant to wear they are on pin holes, etc. While Bushmaster has likely improved the original design, regular AR lowers have been improved over the past 30 years of harsh use and a huge amount of data exists on the design. The fact it's gone since the mid-80s with no (or minor) changes means they've done pretty well...

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Posted: 2/2/2006 1:48:47 PM EDT

[#19]

Bump for update 2/2/06, page 1

Posted: 2/2/2006 2:00:58 PM EDT

[#20]

I wonder if DSA is also goldenempirearms' source for this information. If it isn't, and both of you have different sources, then I would be more inclined to believe that its credible information.

In any event, thanks for the update. Even if it doesn't come tomorrow, it's still interesting to know what information is being spread among manufacturers and dealers.

Posted: 2/2/2006 2:09:48 PM EDT

[#21]

DSA shipping no FAL receivers either, DAMN!, fellas I think we are going in to lockdown mode. Please prepare registration cards for proper postage.

If the fal is included by some friggin act of satan, does this mean no more fixed mag fals into the state?

Posted: 2/2/2006 2:32:56 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
DSA shipping no FAL receivers either, DAMN!, fellas I think we are going in to lockdown mode. Please prepare registration cards for proper postage.

If the fal is included by some friggin act of satan, does this mean no more fixed mag fals into the state?

Misinformation is likely to have been given to DSA and/or DSA lost something in translation.

DOJ cannot 'name' non-AR/non-AK guns without going thru a separate add-on motion in certain superior courts. The DOJ can ONLY name new AR/AK 'series' members. This was confirmed by Harrott decision.

I do not believe they have done the add-on court procedure yet - I think they are still getting handles around the off-list AR/AK situation.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Posted: 2/2/2006 2:35:40 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
DSA shipping no FAL receivers either, DAMN!, fellas I think we are going in to lockdown mode. Please prepare registration cards for proper postage.

If the fal is included by some friggin act of satan, does this mean no more fixed mag fals into the state?

Misinformation is likely to have been given to DSA and/or DSA lost something in translation.

DOJ cannot 'name' non-AR/non-AK guns without going thru a separate add-on motion in certain superior courts. The DOJ can ONLY name new AR/AK 'series' members. This was confirmed by Harrott decision.

I do not believe they have done the add-on court procedure yet - I think they are still getting handles around the off-list AR/AK situation.

Bill Wiese
San Jose

Bill, I'm tending to think that the DSA person was misinformed by whatever DOJ person called. Gosh this is such a pain in the butt.

Posted: 2/2/2006 2:40:48 PM EDT

[#24]

ACK!!!! Everytime theres a new post in this topic my heart damn near stops... As long as no action is taken Tomorrow, (cuz we all know they arnt going to do anything on the weekend) I'll be safe since I'm DROS'ing two Lauers on Saturday..

If it wasnt for 2 people being on Vacation at work I could've taken a day off and done it.. X's fingers...

Posted: 2/2/2006 5:03:39 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

2/2/06 v2. Alright! I've got an update from a real, live person at the DOJ, and I know I'm going to be flamed for this but so be it.

Bonnie, at the general information number for the Firearms division of the DOJ who is a phone answering person and wouldn't know an assault weapon from a curling iron has stated to me that as far as she has been informed (in other words, Rossi's secretary told Merilees's secretary, who told Bonnie, about a Post-It note she saw on her boss's desk after the staff meeting) (and apparently there was some staff meeting about this very recently), the hammer does NOT fall tonight, however the DOJ website will be updated TONIGHT with a notice stating that the receivers will be updated soon (this is their pubic notice).

She has said that all dealers will be NOTIFIED when the ban is in place and the list is updated, which was estimated at "three to four weeks out" however it could come sooner.

Geez Leelaw, and you acused me of stirring the pot. After all the people over at at Calguns who have said STOP CALLING THE DOJ!, you go and call them

Posted: 2/2/2006 5:06:58 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Geez Leelaw, and you acused me of stirring the pot. After all the people over at at Calguns who have said STOP CALLING THE DOJ!, you go and call them

When you were accused of stirring the pot, there was little knowledge of this buying frenzy at the DOJ.

Are you honestly going to accuse me of "stirring the pot" by calling the DOJ to get the word from the horses' mouth when a ban is imminent, and rumored to be tomorrow?

What are they going to do, make the ban happen 6 hours early?

And I think I was drooling over your 18 receivers, not bitchin' mmm..

18...

Posted: 2/2/2006 6:00:51 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Geez Leelaw, and you acused me of stirring the pot. After all the people over at at Calguns who have said STOP CALLING THE DOJ!, you go and call them

When you were accused of stirring the pot, there was little knowledge of this buying frenzy at the DOJ.

Are you honestly going to accuse me of "stirring the pot" by calling the DOJ to get the word from the horses' mouth when a ban is imminent, and rumored to be tomorrow?

What are they going to do, make the ban happen 6 hours early?

And I think I was drooling over your 18 receivers, not bitchin' mmm.. 18...

Well I'm glad I only showed you 18 of them. Was bad enough to clean the drool off those. I hate to think how long it would take to clean up 27

BTW, speaking of updates, have you checked the DOJ Firearms page. Next to Info Bulletins it says in red "UPDATED"
WHOOSH

Of course it's said that for a while now

leelaw?
leelaw?
Where the heck did he go?

Posted: 2/2/2006 6:54:05 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
BTW, speaking of updates, have you checked the DOJ Firearms page. Next to Info Bulletins it says in red "UPDATED"

WHOOSH

Of course it's said that for a while now

leelaw?
leelaw?
Where the heck did he go?

Yea, it's had updated information on assault weapons storage for FFLs, as well as the new handgun requirements for 2006, posted since mid-January, dated Jan 1, 06.

ETA: I ran out of drool from the first 18.. I had to do something else to the other 9.

Posted: 2/2/2006 7:18:23 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I ran out of drool from the first 18.. I had to do something else to the other 9.

too much information

Posted: 2/2/2006 8:11:03 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I ran out of drool from the first 18.. I had to do something else to the other 9.

too much information

He's just jealous, and salivating because he doesn't own a real AR (yet)

Posted: 2/2/2006 8:14:50 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
He's just jealous, and salivating because he doesn't own a real AR (yet)

Bastard...

Posted: 2/2/2006 8:52:02 PM EDT

[#32]

quickly scanned the thread and didn't see anyone mention this, but the DOJ has issued a new update on "New and Amended Firearms/Weapons Laws for 2006" (hit "Information Bulletins from the DOJ's main page). A quick glance through shows no mention of the AR/AK craze, but I could have easily missed it. You can see it here in PDF:

ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0602.pdf

Posted: 2/2/2006 9:03:26 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
quickly scanned the thread and didn't see anyone mention this, but the DOJ has issued a new update on "New and Amended Firearms/Weapons Laws for 2006" (hit "Information Bulletins from the DOJ's main page). A quick glance through shows no mention of the AR/AK craze, but I could have easily missed it. You can see it here in PDF:

ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0602.pdf

I didnt see anything either.

Posted: 2/2/2006 9:09:46 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
quickly scanned the thread and didn't see anyone mention this, but the DOJ has issued a new update on "New and Amended Firearms/Weapons Laws for 2006" (hit "Information Bulletins from the DOJ's main page). A quick glance through shows no mention of the AR/AK craze, but I could have easily missed it. You can see it here in PDF:

ag.ca.gov/firearms/infobuls/0602.pdf

That's the updated FFL storage laws, and the handgun requirements (the magazine catch or CLI requirement)

Posted: 2/2/2006 9:20:49 PM EDT

[#35]

So the list wasnt updated and there was no new notice posted tonite. There are multiple dealers saying that DOJ told them not to ship today because the list would be updated tonite. WTF? Are we still in highschool playing little games or what.

Posted: 2/2/2006 9:24:09 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
So the list wasnt updated and there was no new notice posted tonite. There are multiple dealers saying that DOJ told them not to ship today because the list would be updated tonite. WTF? Are we still in highschool playing little games or what.

Who knows.. I'm very relieved now, though maybe it's an automatic update at midnight, or maybe the first order of business in the morning.. who knows

Posted: 2/2/2006 9:36:46 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So the list wasnt updated and there was no new notice posted tonite. There are multiple dealers saying that DOJ told them not to ship today because the list would be updated tonite. WTF? Are we still in highschool playing little games or what.

Who knows.. I'm very relieved now, though maybe it's an automatic update at midnight, or maybe the first order of business in the morning.. who knows

Well we will soon find out. Nothing surprises me anymore.

Posted: 2/2/2006 10:13:23 PM EDT

[#38]

So does that mean I can't DROS my RRA's tommrow?

Posted: 2/2/2006 10:19:51 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
So does that mean I can't DROS my RRA's tommrow?

Log on CalGuns tomorrow. If the list is updated it bound to be posted there.

Posted: 2/3/2006 3:25:04 AM EDT

[#40]

hyAren’t you guys at least as important as the IRAQies?
Or better yet cross the border into AZ and request political asylum?
Or I guess you can fight them from within by taking over government jobs slowly until
You guys are in charge……….

Sorry guys, I feel for ya.

“Fire for effect”

Posted: 2/3/2006 4:45:37 AM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Why don’t you poor b----rds in California write a formal letter to the U.S. state department and demand they invade California and liberate you.
Aren’t you guys at least as important as the IRAQies?
Or better yet cross the border into AZ and request political asylum?
Or I guess you can fight them from within by taking over government jobs slowly until
You guys are in charge……….

Sorry guys, I feel for ya.

“Fire for effect”

Why don't you quit flappin your trap, and put up or shut up.
Why is it you out of state trolls never want to help out? You're good at pointing out that we're not a free state , but all you have to offer is lip service.
Don't you realize, what happens in a liveral state , is cancer, and unless treated, cancer grows.
If you want to help, organize, and start sending us off list lowers, so the revolution can continue, otherwise keep your advice in your "free state"

Posted: 2/3/2006 5:43:55 AM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:

Why don’t you poor b----rds in California write a formal letter to the U.S. state department and demand they invade California and liberate you.
Aren’t you guys at least as important as the IRAQies?
Or better yet cross the border into AZ and request political asylum?
Or I guess you can fight them from within by taking over government jobs slowly until
You guys are in charge……….

Sorry guys, I feel for ya.

“Fire for effect”

If you want to help how about locating a bunch of non-listed receivers

I am surprised the DOJ would inform FFLs not to ship receivers, which could be returned once the list is updated. It's not required by the DOJ so I find this odd...in many ways BS

Posted: 2/3/2006 6:50:08 AM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
hyAren’t you guys at least as important as the IRAQies?
Or better yet cross the border into AZ and request political asylum?
Or I guess you can fight them from within by taking over government jobs slowly until
You guys are in charge……….

Sorry guys, I feel for ya.

“Fire for effect”
hr

Why don't you quit flappin your trap, and put up or shut up.
Why is it you out of state trolls never want to help out? You're good at pointing out that we're not a free state , but all you have to offer is lip service.
Don't you realize, what happens in a liveral state , is cancer, and unless treated, cancer grows.
If you want to help, organize, and start sending us off list lowers, so the revolution can continue, otherwise keep your advice in your "free state"

Posted: 2/3/2006 6:58:11 AM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
Quoted:
hyAren’t you guys at least as important as the IRAQies?
Or better yet cross the border into AZ and request political asylum?
Or I guess you can fight them from within by taking over government jobs slowly until
You guys are in charge……….

Sorry guys, I feel for ya.

“Fire for effect”
hr

Why don't you quit flappin your trap, and put up or shut up.
Why is it you out of state trolls never want to help out? You're good at pointing out that we're not a free state , but all you have to offer is lip service.
Don't you realize, what happens in a liveral state , is cancer, and unless treated, cancer grows.
If you want to help, organize, and start sending us off list lowers, so the revolution can continue, otherwise keep your advice in your "free state"

here,Quit asking everyone else to take care of the cancer you sat on your a--es and let grow.
When are people going to start and taking care of their own problems instead of crying for everone else to do it for them?

That is exactly why I live FL. where people have the right to defend themselves and their families.

We are making headway, we are expanding our gun rights while CA are giving them up.
we are taking charge ourselves by using the voting booths.

Take a good look at FL gunlaws and our concealed carry laws and our new Castle Doctrine that now extends beyond allowing us only defend our selves on our own property.

Do something for your selves you can vote for your government we can't.

Or suffer for doing nothing.

BTW

I will have receivers not on the list available soon.

"Fire for Effect"

Posted: 2/3/2006 7:50:57 AM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Why don’t you poor b----rds in California write a formal letter to the U.S. state department and demand they invade California and liberate you.
Aren’t you guys at least as important as the IRAQies?
Or better yet cross the border into AZ and request political asylum?
Or I guess you can fight them from within by taking over government jobs slowly until
You guys are in charge……….

Sorry guys, I feel for ya.

“Fire for effect”

Why don't you quit flappin your trap, and put up or shut up.
Why is it you out of state trolls never want to help out? You're good at pointing out that we're not a free state , but all you have to offer is lip service.
Don't you realize, what happens in a liveral state , is cancer, and unless treated, cancer grows.
If you want to help, organize, and start sending us off list lowers, so the revolution can continue, otherwise keep your advice in your "free state"

You live there, I don't, take care of your own mess.
Quit asking everyone else to take care of the cancer you sat on your a--es and let grow.
When are people going to start and taking care of their own problems instead of crying for everone else to do it for them?

That is exactly why I left my home state and moved to FL. where people have the right to defend themselves and their families.

We are making headway here by taking charge ourselves.
Take a good look at FL gunlaws and our concealed carry laws and our new Castle Doctrine that now extends beyond allowing us only defend our selves on our own property.

Do something for your selves you can vote for your government we can't.

Or suffer for doing nothing.

BTW

I will have receivers not on the list available soon.

"Fire for Effect"

I think what he meant by "help out" is help out by letting us buy these off list lowers not change our legislature. Some sellers hear CA and AR stripped lower in one sentence and immediately shut the door. We know our gun laws suck, we've heard it before and some of us ARE trying to make a change. Others cant move (and probably dont want to) because of various reasons. For me, liberal gun laws arent the deciding factor. Shoot, if that was the only thing important to me, I'd move to Somalia or someother God awful place where I can stroll down to the local marketplace and buy anything I wanted.

So spare us your "CA Sucks our state doesnt" rhetoric. If you are willing to sell us some of the receivers while we still are legally able to, many thanks and we appreciate your assistance. If you're not willing, leave us well enough alone and go back to your hometown forum....

Posted: 2/3/2006 8:04:04 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
You live there, I don't, take care of your own mess.
Quit asking everyone else to take care of the cancer you sat on your a--es and let grow.
When are people going to start and taking care of their own problems instead of crying for everone else to do it for them?

Why is it that arrogant trolls always fall back onto the "I don't live there" bullshit when their unsolicited and inherently stupid opinion is not given the kind of respect their warped mind thinks it deserves?

Really funny coming from a guy who fled a problem rather than staying and fixing it, a position he apparently really believes in.

After new information (below) I rescing this post. We get a little defensive around here when someone does the "get Free America to come liberate your shithole state" stuff.

Posted: 2/3/2006 8:10:20 AM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

I think what he meant by "help out" is help out by letting us buy these off list lowers not change our legislature. Some sellers hear CA and AR stripped lower in one sentence and immediately shut the door. We know our gun laws suck, we've heard it before and some of us ARE trying to make a change. Others cant move (and probably dont want to) because of various reasons. For me, liberal gun laws arent the deciding factor. Shoot, if that was the only thing important to me, I'd move to Somalia or someother God awful place where I can stroll down to the local marketplace and buy anything I wanted.

So spare us your "CA Sucks our state doesnt" rhetoric. If you are willing to sell us some of the receivers while we still are legally able to, many thanks and we appreciate your assistance. If you're not willing, leave us well enough alone and go back to your hometown forum....

hI was trying to inspire you guys to make a real effort to change the way the gun laws are going in CA.

FL is living proof it can be done if effort is applied.
It's not easy but you have to start doing real work not just jaw flapping.

I am a 07 FFL and a 02 SOT and I will have 50 Stripped lowers to send to an FFL dealer who is willing to pay for them and legally transfer them to you guys.
hook me up with an FFL dealer in your state and provided it is still leagal to do so I will send him 50 stripped lowers.

"Fire for Effect"

Posted: 2/3/2006 8:44:43 AM EDT

[#48]

^^^

Dude, we try. Its easy for you to talk about how you pass gun legislation when you have a state that is primarily republican.

Over here we have sheeple and they dont care what we do. Everyone on this board gets out and votes and signs petitions and so on.

We need numbers and unfortunately Conservatives arent the ones popping out babies and that only ensures a future of further liberal ownage.

It also doesnt help when people up and leave to go to a free state, though I dont blame them.

If we are going to get anything done, it has to be in courts because the people here dont know right from wrong and there is no way they are going vote pro gun. Period.

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:03:52 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:

I think what he meant by "help out" is help out by letting us buy these off list lowers not change our legislature. Some sellers hear CA and AR stripped lower in one sentence and immediately shut the door. We know our gun laws suck, we've heard it before and some of us ARE trying to make a change. Others cant move (and probably dont want to) because of various reasons. For me, liberal gun laws arent the deciding factor. Shoot, if that was the only thing important to me, I'd move to Somalia or someother God awful place where I can stroll down to the local marketplace and buy anything I wanted.

So spare us your "CA Sucks our state doesnt" rhetoric. If you are willing to sell us some of the receivers while we still are legally able to, many thanks and we appreciate your assistance. If you're not willing, leave us well enough alone and go back to your hometown forum....

Look my original intent was to side with you guys and offer support.
I was trying to inspire you guys to make a real effort to change the way the gun laws are going in CA.

FL is living proof it can be done if effort is applied.
It's not easy but you have to start doing real work not just jaw flapping.

I am a 07 FFL and a 02 SOT and I will have 50 Stripped lowers to send to an FFL dealer who is willing to pay for them and legally transfer them to you guys.
hook me up with an FFL dealer in your state and provided it is still leagal to do so I will send him 50 stripped lowers.

"Fire for Effect"

I sincerely appreciate your effort then and thank you for your supporting us!

Posted: 2/3/2006 9:19:16 AM EDT

[#50]

NavyGunner

I hope the list isn't updated this week and someone hooks you up with an FFL.

Not to rub it in but as I recall, back when red was blue and blue was red

, Jimmy Carter was elected by the southern states including FL and TX, and CA went to Ford. My point being, FL caused CA to become the Caliban you rat bastards

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