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Posted: 6/17/2003 12:33:08 PM EDT
[#1]
whisper when you go to gilberts be sure and check out the small vertical case to the left of the main cases. Theres a Liberator and a S&W .500. There is also a .500 round sitting out that if you put a ledge on it would make a dandy ashtray!
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Posted: 6/17/2003 9:27:57 PM EDT
[#2]
ok, ok I am really excited. Have no clue if receiver has the carry handle but at this point I couldn't care less, hee hee just happy that it is in and waiting for pickup.
If you guys want to go ahead and start without me I have no problem. It may even be best to do so to iron out any kinks or figure out what we may be missing. Also what are we doing about locking shoulders? I read somewhere in the FAL files that it is not recommended to try and modify what you have, but better to get specific one. Do we have a source nearby or do we have to wait and mail them out? My kit is still almost two weeks out unfortunately, something held Ken up on it a bit. Steve the folder looks GREAT. Can't wait to see it in person! I am busy the next few days and may not be able to pick up my receiver till friday or sat. Wish I could start both rifles rifht now but second one is gonna have to wait a bit. |
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Posted: 6/18/2003 5:19:16 AM EDT
[#3]
On the LS issue, we have a few options. First, I'm not opposed to filing them. They are hardened all the way through so there is no risk of screwing up surface strength. The only trick is to maintain the correct angle. I'm also figuring we can exchange them between ourselves. I have one extra that I will bring and between the three of us, hopefully, we'll have luck here. If not, Jen at the FALfiles does mail exchanges for a nominal fee.
You might want to see if Ken can ship out at least your barrel. The rest of the kit is pretty simple. I can even provide the bolt and carrier from a spare kit I have, as long as you replace it when yours comes in. |
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Posted: 6/18/2003 8:11:04 AM EDT
[#4]
Heres the link to falfiles describing the LS deal: FAL File LS
Cliffy yes you're right about filing the LS, it can be done although you had better have a good file. I also have a bench grinder. I myself will wait for the LS if we don't have one between us for mine, maybe we'll get lucky. I would suggest that everyone needs to headspace with the bolt and carrier they intend to use. There has been a thread on FAL Files about folks trying different bolts and experiencing only a mil or two of difference, me i'd prefer to use the bolt i HS with. Sounds like you like to WECSOG, good for you, i'll be glad to stand by and offer useless advice while drinking a beer  . This is gonna be fun.
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Posted: 6/18/2003 9:13:09 AM EDT
[#5]
Yes, I am a WECSOG type, but only to a degree. I agree on the bolt thing. I wouldn't suggest changing it out without checking the headspace again. My offer to Whisper was to give him one of mine with the understanding that he gives me his when it comes in. I doubt that will be an issue anyway because I can't see Ken shipping the barrel without the rest of the kit.
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Posted: 6/18/2003 9:29:14 AM EDT
[#6]
If you want some of my WECSOG credentials, take a look at these threads:
www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72384 www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73190 www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=74633 Oh and... what kind of beer. I'm buyin' |
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Posted: 6/18/2003 9:51:02 AM EDT
[#7]
cliffy,
I see you have the credentials! Sounds like you had more "learning experiences" than i did on my first build, glad you'll be around for my second. Yeah the bolt thing, i misunderstood. I'm not picky on beer, the only thing i haven't been able to drink was milwaukee's best, and if you drink that i ain't giving you directions to my house. |
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Posted: 6/18/2003 9:22:38 PM EDT
[#8]
Ok since you guys are supplying beer I will drag some food along. Steve, I am soo happy you have a 'clue' cause otherwise I would just let Ken put this gun together for me. I need to make some time and familiarize myself with all the steps involved in putting this thing together before I get to Curts house.
Kit should be here sometime next week from Ken.  Anybody got a problem, with Pork? Curt how many members of your family should I account for, I make a mean Souvlaki and I want to make sure I have enough for everyone! |
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Posted: 6/19/2003 3:54:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Souvlaki sounds good, the wife would eat some. no telling about the 3 kids as some days they won't eat ice cream, maybe that's a slight exageration.
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Posted: 6/20/2003 10:35:44 AM EDT
[#10]
Well, I got my SAR48 back from Ken yesterday which means I also got back two of the barrels I will be using for the build.
Last night, I sat down with the three barrels and three receivers they will be going on. The two Coonan receivers hand times to 10:30. I found the consistency encouraging, especially since one barrel is an Imbel from Dan's kit and the other is an STG barrel from a VERY old DSA kit. The Imbel kit concerns me though. The barrel is a take-off from the SAR48 and it is on a Gear Logo Imbel receiver. It times to 9:30 at best. I tried the other barrels on the same receiver and got the same result. What do I need to be before the 6th so we can install these? |
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Posted: 6/20/2003 11:56:49 AM EDT
[#11]
cliffy, as i remember it you want your barrel to handtime to btween 11:30 & 11:45 so you'll have to remove shoulder on all of them. The way i did it on mine was careful use of a bastard file using a marker to make sure i was taking it off evenly. another method is to poke a hole in a sanding disk and rotating it to shave off a few mils. I may try the sanding disk approach this time if mine hand times nicely, tho the bastard worked fine.
You may want to make sure that your barrels aren't bottoming out inside your reciever, if they are then it will be time for judicious dremmeling. |
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Posted: 6/20/2003 10:41:03 PM EDT
[#12]
Dammit, you guys are doing stuff and I'm still waiting on my parked kit. Oh well, soon enough.
BTW picked up my receiver. I think it is the type that allows for the handle, just not sure if I want to use it that way yet. |
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Posted: 6/21/2003 3:48:12 AM EDT
[#13]
If it had the cut then its no big deal if you want to change the carrying handle config later, its not like you have to pull the barrel off.
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Posted: 6/21/2003 5:09:22 AM EDT
[#14]
If you want a non-carry handle one, let me know. I'll swap one of mine. They didn't have the option when I ordered mine and I would have liked one of the two to have it.
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Posted: 6/23/2003 3:21:21 PM EDT
[#15]
The build party is shping up nicely. I went to Whisper's house last night and we made sure he knew what he needed to bring. I also gave him some quick lessons on assembling everything except the barrel. He's ready for this.
We did discover that he was missing a trigger return plunger and spring but I've got extras for him, as well as a spare butt pad. Is this just Curt, Nick and myself or is anybody else planning on stopping by? |
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Posted: 6/23/2003 3:56:28 PM EDT
[#16]
cliffy, i'm curious. Does nick really look like cartman, or does he just not photograph well?
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Posted: 6/23/2003 4:02:36 PM EDT
[#17]
I'll plead the 5th on that one, but I will tell you that he can cook like you wouldn't believe. His idea of "whipping something up" last night entailed a perfectly seasoned steak, potatoes, grilled asparagas and a beet salad. I don't even like asparagas but he actually made it good.
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Posted: 6/23/2003 7:31:18 PM EDT
[#18]
Sounds like you guys have things well in hand. BTW, the guy who was supposed to buy my receiver wrench never sent the money, and I lost track of who wanted it...so it's available, if you need it. I've seen the date, July 6, but where are you guys getting together? I may roll on down just to watch, and I can bring my parts kits if there's anything someone needs at the last minute...I got spare buttstocks, pistol grips, buttpads, assorted bits and pieces.
I still have the Entreprise brake, too, and the PSG-1 style pistol grip if anyone is interested, and I can grab one of my DSA scope mounts if need be. Of course, once you all get done with the build, your gonna have to schedule the SHOOT lol. |
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Posted: 6/24/2003 3:56:10 AM EDT
[#19]
We'll be doing this in Lorton, just off of pohick road. Let me know if you want to come and i'll PM you with directions a few days before when i PM nick and steve.
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Posted: 6/24/2003 6:27:27 AM EDT
[#20]
Curt, yeah, I am starting to look like Cartman, add a goatee and a flattop to him and we could be twins. My wife keeps bugging me about getting back into shape, I am in shape, ROUND is a shape.
Steve, I know dropping by was a real last minute decision and I am sorry I kept you so late, but thank you for all the help, I really appreciated your eagerness to help me figure out what I am doing! (sorry about the Asparagus, I need my veggies  .)John, happy to have you along will add more food to the list for you too. Spare parts would be alot of help! I will make sure to bring my good micrometer and calipers for accurate measurements. |
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Posted: 6/24/2003 7:23:05 AM EDT
[#21]
If anybody is interested, there are a couple of remaining R1/R3 kits available from Double G gunsmithing. He has had these things advertised for about a week. He started off with 100 of them is is now down to about 10. If you want one, order it TODAY.
www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=78271 |
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Posted: 6/24/2003 8:45:03 AM EDT
[#22]
Lorton, for sure...as long as your AC works lol! Go ahead and send me the directions...I'll bring the receiver wrench, the kits, and whatever else I think someone might need/want. What time?
Cliffy109, why don't you email your FAL smith, the one in Alexandria, and ask him where he got that barrel shoulder shaving tool...one might come in handy, and there's probably still time to order one and have it arrive in time. |
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Posted: 6/24/2003 8:50:30 AM EDT
[#23]
No need. I ordered one from the guy that makes them last week. It has been sent already. I'm also orering a timing tool from PA Patriot right now. I'm glad you're coming. I suspect we can use an extra receiver wrench and its always nice to meet the guys from this board. |
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Posted: 6/24/2003 8:52:57 PM EDT
[#24]
Great minds think alike! |
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Posted: 6/25/2003 5:06:09 AM EDT
[#25]
When I picked up my mail last night, I found the shoulder shaving tool in my mailbox. That was fast. I sat down and started checking barrel timing. At first, the metal on the shoulder seemed too hard. I was just twising the tool by hand and not making any progress. It was too big to fit in any sockets I have so I did the WECSOG thing. I took the largest socket I have (13/16) and set it on top of the shaving tool. I then used duct tape to join them together. I chucked the socket into the drill and went to work.
Within a minute, I had removed enough metal on the first barrel to hand time it to a bit past 11:00. The next one was the Imbel that was hand timing at 9:30. Two minutes later and we are just past 11:00. Set number three was already where I needed it. I'll be bringing this to the build. It is an awesome tool. |
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Posted: 6/25/2003 10:11:16 AM EDT
[#26]
sounds a lot better than my file and majic marker!
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:33:26 AM EDT
[#27]
First off I want to say thank you guys for being so forthcoming with all your equipment and knowledge.
Next I want to say that I have really put myself into the doghouse with my wife and my finances with this project. I should have opted to just build one rifle but I thought I could sneak in two since we had all the tools and stuff together. As fate would have it other expenses came up unexpectedly also and now we will be paying off C/C's for a while. Well my stuff should be here just in time to build two pretty ugly and somewhat incomplete but hopefully functioning rifles. Next on the list will be a parking party, hopefully that will not be as expensive as this turned out. Big thank you to: Cliffy109 Curt Fenian Ken at GlobelMilitarySurplus.com Templar (Degeofs, mechanichsville, VA) Ernie (@Gilberts, NOVA) Tapco George & DSA Everyone has been super to deal with so far. Also Shivan, will you be joining us to photo-op the events as they transpire. It would be cool to have an album of the mess we are gonna make on the 6th of July. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 10:05:35 AM EDT
[#28]
I hear ya' man. My latest Tapco package arrived on Wednesday and they sent two parts that will not work and I discovered two others that I still needed. Another $100 to DSA and I hope I'm done.
I did play around with Gun Kote last night. It seems to work great on surfaces that are already parked. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 8:45:54 PM EDT
[#29]
I am getting jumpy. 1 week to go and I am still waiting on some major pieces here. Stuff should all be here by Thursday but I will not know what small stuff I am missing till then.
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Posted: 6/28/2003 7:00:35 AM EDT
[#30]
I may have a solution to the finish issue for you guys. I bought an air brush and some Gun Kote. Normally, you would need to sand blast the parts and parkerize them before applying the Kote. There is an alternative. Strip the lower using a wire brush on a drill. Then, coat it with K-Kote. I have a bottle of this and it is a pre-treatment for Gun Kote for non-parkerized surfaces. Finally, spray on the Gun Kote and bake for an hour.
On the receivers, you don't need to strip them. The Kote will apply directly to the parkerizing. Now... I bought gloss black to match the lower receiver I have. It turns out, it is too glossy so I need to order the regular black or just live with it. It isn't perfect but it is FAR better than the messed up looking lowers from some of these kits. |
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Posted: 6/29/2003 8:19:30 PM EDT
[#31]
Time to start finalizing this thing.
Curt please let us know what is best for you, as far as when we should start showing up on Sunday. [email protected] |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 4:37:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Steve, nick, fenian i've emailed you directions (fenian i emailed yours via the ar15.com email feature).
As for time anytime after 10:30 am is fine with me, let me know. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 9:46:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Well, 10:30 or 11:00 would work for me. If we finish in time, we may even be able to make a trip to the NRA range for function testing. I'm not holding my breath on this becasue I know these things always seem to take longer than anticipated.
Nick, you may want to hook up a wire stripping brush to a drill and strip down that G1 lower you have. We'll K-Phos it and then Gun Kote and bake it. I have a bottle to the satin black on the way. Just strip the thing down and totally degrease it (including the CLP). We can do the same to a top cover as well. |
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Posted: 6/30/2003 10:28:43 AM EDT
[#34]
hmmmm...haven't seen the directions yet...just hit the email user option on one of my posts...should get you to my regular email, which is [email protected].
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Posted: 6/30/2003 9:20:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Steve working on the lower, actually now it looks pearl black, big improvement.
That complete G1 kit I paid too much for earlier, upon closer inspection, seems to be missing a bunch of small parts, I will try to order some stuff express mail from gun things but I don't know if they will make it. I am hopeing to be able to cobble up enough parts from you guys, I will replace or pay for anything you guys supply me with. On a better note, those DSA imbel uppers and the refinished barrel are beautiful and ready to go. (thanks Steve, good idea)Gotta remove the stub off the upper but finish on it is very good. Gonna have an extra 2, 21" barrels if anyone is interested. Still waiting on my kit from KEN, post office will not drop off without a signature and we are now playing cat and mouse with the postman.  Update: Almost everything here. Tapco holding me up with a few small pieces. |
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Posted: 7/1/2003 7:41:42 AM EDT
[#36]
I've got a fair number of spare parts laying around that I'll bring. No worries Nick.
On another note... I couldn't wait to see how light weight I could get one of these so I took all the parts to my LW project and put them together. Obviously, the barrel was only hand tight but all the parts were there. Ones that could not be affixed were laying in the mag well for the weigh in. (drum roll) 7.75 pounds! I didn't think it was possible to get it under 8. The trick was to not compromise a single ounce. I did a non-carry handle Coonan receiver, DSA aluminum lower, charging handle, top cover and trigger guard. The barrel is an Imbel non-bipod cut shotened to 17" and no muzzle device. Stock is the Penguin economy and the forend is the Century cheap shit with the STG profile. Keeping in mind that the barrel was a few degrees off TDC, I shouldered it a few times. It balances better than any battle rifle or carbine I have ever had my hands on. I'm shocked at how nice it feels and how quickly it jumps to the shoulder. I am really excited. I can't wait to get it assembled this weekend. |
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Posted: 7/1/2003 11:15:56 AM EDT
[#37]
Here is a pic of the stock that is going on one of the other builds that will be done this weekend. MisterJG shipped it today and I should have it by Thursday.
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Posted: 7/1/2003 4:47:12 PM EDT
[#38]
Is that Zebrawood Cliffy?
Lookin' GOOD..............!! Oh, and Whisper, your Imbel receiver is in and ready to be picked up! 
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Posted: 7/2/2003 3:27:18 AM EDT
[#39]
cliffy i can see you're going to be a bad influence.
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Posted: 7/2/2003 4:41:39 AM EDT
[#40]
I'm pretty sure Whisper's wife agrees with you. |
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Posted: 7/3/2003 8:26:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Ugghh, CC bill came in today. Did not realize I was into this for almost $1500 so far. Steve do me a favor and build at least one ugly rifle so I don't feel too bad about mine.
Oh well, Sunday is coming and I want to get my stuff ready. I am going to attack the receiver stubs with my dremill to get them off. Any words of advice before I attack 'em Saturday evening???? BTW: do any of you guys have a digital camera so we can run some real time or soon after pics of all this stuff after we are done. This thread has been read over 600 times since we started it, I am sure a few people would like to see the finished products. |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 4:03:26 AM EDT
[#42]
I got a camera, i can even record directly to an .mpeg file so we can catch those arterial sprays (good for a WECSOF PHD).
Hold off dremeling and we'll take care of it sunday. I may not get my stub off till then myself. |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 8:00:36 AM EDT
[#43]
Well, everything is now ready to go. The BBT brought me the satin black GunKote which now means the upper now perfectly matches the SAR48 take offs. I've never seen such a perfect color match.
Also, for you Nick, I Koted an Imbel lower. If you want to trade one of your roughed up looking G1s I'll do it. The Imbel lower is type 3 and will match your Imbel upper. The mailman also deliverd my zebrawood stock set so the STG is ready to go as well. All three are ready for assembly. I've got everything done except for the barrels. So... did we decide on a time? 10:30 or 11:00 is good for me. |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 9:04:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Steve, What can I say you have brought a tear to my eye with your kindness.
Oh and yeah I'll be there by 11.... |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 10:11:24 AM EDT
[#45]
Before you go gettin' too emotional on me, you should know that it is just a spare part from a Dan's kit that I wasn't using anyway. Its yours though. I need to do a touch up on it tomorrow night but it will be ready and in decent shape by Sunday.
I'm bored today. The FALfiles are down and work is slow, so I'm just gonna brag now. The three I am assembling are going to be out of this world awesome! Each is unique and all will lack nothing. [brag] 1. The lightweight. This is a parkerized finish with a 17" Imbel barrel, new DSA LW lower, type 1 Coonan receiver and new furniture. It will weigh in under 7.5 pounds including an empty magazine. 2. An STG58 with a 20.5 barrel. It will be built on a Coonan with carry handle. The finish on the STG parts is excellent, save for a few scrathes on the barrel. The furniture is the zebrawood that I posted pics of earlier. I may add a scope to this one later. This will be the beatuy queen of the batch. 3. An all Imbel in 50.00 configuration. The furniture, barrel and lower are take-offs from the SAR58 and are essentially new. The upper is a GL Imbel that I used black satin Gunkote which is a perfect match for the factory Imbel lower and top cover from the SAR48. I'm particularly happy about this one because it will be a perfect copy of the most widely issued variant of the FAL. There is something about a historicly accurate rifle that gets to me. [/brag] |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 10:17:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Hey Curt. Are you going to allow baking? I certainly wouldn't blame you if you didn't because it does leave a rather pungent odor for an hour or so. If you want, I'll bring the air brush and GunKote and we can finish as much stuff as y'all want. It takes only minutes to apply, but you need to allow an hour to air dry and another hour of bake time and then cool down. Any parts we do should be ones that are to be used later in the day.
Any parts that this is to be done to need to either be parkerized or stripped of any paint. The Imbel lower I did was stripped with a wire bruch on a drill. It was still black but the paint was removed. You can see some of the lines left by the brush if you look real close but its pretty damn good. Perkerized surfaces look perfect. Let me know. |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 11:00:02 AM EDT
[#47]
Cliffy, uum i don't know about the oven expecially since its likely that the house will be closed up with a/c on. I didn't think that gunkote needed to be baked. Can the gun be heated up first and then sprayed? Anyway i'm hoping on some good news next week that will allow me to begin accumulating stuff for parking etc. so i think i'll wait,
Anyway, I figure with all the guns we are building that we're gonna be busy beating back mr. murphy, surely someone's barrel will bottom out before timing. So i guess i'll see you guys 10:30 or 11 or so. |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 11:08:18 AM EDT
[#48]
Yeah, the GK needs baked. You first pre-heat the metal to 120 then apply it. Let it air dry for about an hour. It will still be tacky at that point. In fact, it will still be tacky the next day unless you bake it. The odor is not overpowering but does smell like melting plastic. If you are married, there ain't a chance you should do it when she will be home. The odor doesn't really start until about 45 minutes into it. That's how you know its about ready.
So I'll leave the GK at home. I'm single so if you guys want anything done, give it to me and I'll get it done during the week. I just can't fit a barreled receiver into my oven. At least not with a 21" barrel and muzzle brake. Anything else is fine. Sounds like thing are looking up for you Curt. That's great. |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 2:29:13 PM EDT
[#49]
Steve,
If you can make a trip to my house tonight or tomorrow we can bake the hell out of anything we want to in my ovens. What the hell do you think I had that 1200CFM hood installed for!!! That Imbel lower is exactly what I needed. I will use it with the Imbel receiver, the STG58 front end with the freshly parked barrel and all that is left is to find some black furniture or to later on order some of that gorgeous wood like you have. I have some small parts that go on the lower that are worn but they do not bother me, gives the rifle some character. The 16" GI kit from Ken looks perfect with the Coonan receiver and the Arms scope mount, and the Holosight on top of the arms looks good and works 100% My biggest worry will be locking shoulders and timing the barrels, hopefully that tool you picked up will make this go smoothely. I think we will have small issues to work out, but hopefully Lady luck will smile on us Sunday. Will need to go to HD and Lowes tomorrow is there anything I can pick up that will help us file those LS's properrly?????? |
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Posted: 7/4/2003 3:19:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Just make sure one of you brings a 27mm or 1-1/16" open end wrench to help in case the barrel starts spinning in the blocks, it will need to be one that we can grind on.
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