I don't think you guys have anything to worry about - the package is NOT going to pass.  the numbers are strong against it and getting stronger each day.

Now...

When it fails and the Legislature passes an additional two cent sales tax as an "emergency stop-gap measure" in the special session, I hope and pray you guys will be as hard on the Legislature as you have been on the Governor.

As long as Riley's ads are lying and calling it a tax cut, we have something to worry about!  My daughter got the survey today and was told during the interview that it would mean a tax cut for her & her family.  Only problem was that the interviewer was unable to explain just how her taxes would go down instead of up.

Also my daughter & son-in-law's business is heavily involved in service work, so that would be another problem for them.

Rick

We need a constitutional amendment that makes the present year's budget NOT to exceed the previous year's revenue. And the governor needs a line item veto.

Quoted: We need a constitutional amendment that makes the present year's budget NOT to exceed the previous year's revenue. And the governor needs a line item veto.

I agree - but try getting that past our legislature!  Ain't gonna happen.

Well HARDSHELL, You've certainly opened up a big can of worms! But here's my 2 cents, I'll be voting NO!!!! I work hard for my money and those so-n-so's in MONTGOMERY should work for theirs. This is the first state that I've lived in (out of 5) where I NEVER get a state tax refund! I always owe. And at that, the schools are awful, the roads are full of pot holes and litter and the tax money that we all pay just evaporates.  WELL MR. RILEY, I'VE GOT ONE WORD FOR YOU----LOTTERY!!!! ---At least the lottery would give people the small hope of somehow winning and getting something back for every dollar that they spend on lotto tickets. With the tax system as it stands today, I feel like I've been raped in the rear every time that tax time comes around. So, there you have it! If you want me to agree to being raped--- it ain't gonna happen!!!!! I encourage everyone to vote NO!

Let Riley hang on his campagne promise-- to fix Alabama without a lottery AND without raising taxes.

Quoted: Well HARDSHELL, You've certainly opened up a big can of worms! But here's my 2 cents, I'll be voting NO!!!! I work hard for my money and those so-n-so's in MONTGOMERY should work for theirs. This is the first state that I've lived in (out of 5) where I NEVER get a state tax refund! I always owe. And at that, the schools are awful, the roads are full of pot holes and litter and the tax money that we all pay just evaporates.  WELL MR. RILEY, I'VE GOT ONE WORD FOR YOU----LOTTERY!!!! ---At least the lottery would give people the small hope of somehow winning and getting something back for every dollar that they spend on lotto tickets. With the tax system as it stands today, I feel like I've been raped in the rear every time that tax time comes around. So, there you have it! If you want me to agree to being raped--- it ain't gonna happen!!!!! I encourage everyone to vote NO! Let Riley hang on his campagne promise-- to fix Alabama without a lottery AND without raising taxes.

But didn't studies show that in order for the lottery to net only $100 million dollars, every man, woman, and child in the state would have to purchase 100 lottery tickets a year?

the lottery for alabama is useless. too little too late.

why the hell would someone play the al. lottery for a few hundred thousand tops when they can make a short drive to florida and georgia and play for a few million.

what we NEED is true spending reform and REAL cutbacks at the state, county, city levels.

mike

Quoted: the lottery for alabama is useless. too little too late. why the hell would someone play the al. lottery for a few hundred thousand tops when they can make a short drive to florida and georgia and play for a few million. what we NEED is true spending reform and REAL cutbacks at the state, county, city levels. mike

I'm all for a lottery.

A Lottery is nothing more than a Voluntary Tax on Stupid People.

SG

i am not against a lottery and if it can support itself without taxpayer funding go for it.

I just don't think it will actually solve any of the states financial problems.

mike

Quoted: <<<<  snip  >>>> what we NEED is true spending reform and REAL cutbacks at the state, county, city levels. mike

Amen brother, can I get a hallelujia (or however you spell it)?!?!?!  But I say this not because I'm fed up with watching MY money get wasted (even though I am).  I have information which brings the question "what the hell is going on?" to mind.  For example:

Alabama (in 2001) ranked 23rd in the country in Total Revenue Amount (not limited to income taxes) but only ranked 25th in Expenditure Amount.  Of the neighboring states (Florida, Mississippi, Georgia, and Tennessee), only Mississippi ranked higher than Alabama.  Alabama ranked 28th in the country in Revenue per capita (WHILE RANKING 43rd IN PER CAPITA INCOME), but ranked 34th in Expenditure per capita.  Again, of the neighboring states, only Mississippi ranked higher than Alabama.

From 1992 to 2001 (10 year period), total revenue for the state of Alabama increased from $10.5 billion to $17.9 billion (increase of 70%)
From 1992 to 2001 (same 10 year period), Alabama's per capita income increased from $17400 to $24500 (increase of 40%)
Adjusted for inflation (25%) and population growth (9%) results in state reveue increased by 30% while incomes only increased by 15%.  Where is the $$ going?  I can only assume waste.

Also, FWIW, I used to work for the School Board in Mobile County.  Before someone says that the county runs that, let me say that the paychecks say State of Alabama.  We were state employees using state $$$.  If I had a dollar for every 50 that I saw wasted, I could afford that PSG1 I would love to have.  There were 2 sets of books kept at one point.  The real numbers, and the public numbers.  

I voted for Riley.  Now I have been betrayed by the man who said that he was going to clean house and take the pork out.  There are other things that I disagree with in the tax proposal, but I've spent enough time here.  Just thought you all might like some interesting figures to chew on....

Quoted: Well HARDSHELL, You've certainly opened up a big can of worms!...

As they say:  You ain't seen nothin' yet!  The following article is from Time Magazine Online:

www.time.com/time/columnist/frank/article/0,9565,476249,00.html?cnn=yes

Alabama's Most Courageous Politician Faced with a mounting deficit and declining services, governor Bob Riley dares to think big Friday, Aug. 15, 2003 Alabama’s Republican Governor Bob Riley is either politically suicidal or the bravest chief executive in the country. He could be both. Riley campaigned in 2002 by appealing to the state’s upper- and middle-class, white suburbanites, while his opponent lobbied for support from blacks and poor, rural whites. Riley’s strategy worked — he defeated incumbent Democrat Don Siegelman by just 3,120 votes. Now the Governor seems bent on ticking off all the people who supported him. Before coming to Montgomery, Riley was congressman for the state’s third district, and while in Washington he was a strong supporter of tax cuts and school prayer. He campaigned on a platform of cutting spending and freezing taxes. Now Riley has proposed a revenue and education plan that will phase in tax increases totalling $1.2 billion by 2007. It’s passed the Democrat-controlled legislature, but must be approved by voters in a state referendum on September 9th. So what made Riley move away from his conservative roots? Riley may have realized desperate times call for desperate measures. Like most states, Alabama faces budget problems, specifically a $675 million shortfall next year. Riley saw three solutions to the problem: He could gut state services, eliminating health care for thousands of seniors and endangering public safety. He could raise taxes just enough to fill the fiscal hole, but then, as he told his constituents, “We would still be last in education, last in social services, last across the board.” Alabama does suffer from some of the lowest quality of life standards in the nation. The economic boom that swept the South during the '90s bypassed this state somewhat, though in recent years new residents, some from the North, some Hispanic, have moved in, and the government did lure Mercedes and Honda to build new factories near Tuscaloosa and Birmingham. But now that the boom is over, the state needs a shot in the arm even more. So Riley went for option three: He proposed the $1.2 billion plan, which not only fills the fiscal hole, but raises new revenues Riley plans to put toward helping the state’s poorly funded schools and establishing an extensive college scholarship program. It does all this by raising property, income and sales taxes, particularly on the wealthy, while at the same time cutting income taxes for the poor. In any state, this would be ambitious. Most governors are handling the budget crisis by making painful cuts or by playing elaborate shell games with budget money; none are trying to use the crisis as an opportunity to reform their tax codes, shift the burden from the poor and strengthen public education all in one move of political jujitsu. What makes Riley’s plan courageous bordering on suicidal is the fact that Alabama is one of the most anti-tax, anti-government states in America. If Riley needs an example, he only has to look at what happened to his predecessor Siegelman, who came into office promising to fix the schools by establishing a state lottery. The measure had to be approved in a referendum, which began a bitter campaign between the lottery’s supporters and groups who opposed it on moral grounds. One distributed bumper stickers that read, “The Lottery — What Would Jesus Do?” The referendum failed and Siegelman threw up his hands for the next three years, failing to come up with an alternative. The debacle led to his defeat by Riley. A similar fight is now being waged, as grass roots organizations campaign for or against the plan, spending tens of thousands of dollars on television ads. Business and education advocates support the amendment, the farm and timber industries oppose it because the property taxes will hurt them. The steering committee of Riley’s own party opposes the amendment, while Democrats can’t decide whether to support the plan or stay on the sidelines, hoping Riley impales himself on the referendum. The latest polls show the amendment losing by 20 points. One reason for Riley’s struggle to win voters’ support is the plan’s complexity. He has to explain how it will help the state and make the tax burden more equitable (Riley is running 15 minute infomercials on statewide TV to do just that); all his opponents have to do is say it raises taxes. Of course, most provisions of the plan simply bring Alabama's tax code in line with other Southern states: the cigarette tax will rise to 31 cents a pack (Georgia’s is 37 cents); poor families won’t pay income taxes until their income hits $20,000 a year, similar to most states. Currently they pay after $4,600 a year, lowest in the nation. There’s a tradeoff here — Alabamans pay the lowest state taxes in the nation, but they also rank near the bottom in quality of education. If the referendum loses, Riley and the legislature will have three weeks to find another solution to the budget crunch. But Riley will know he took his best shot at helping his state. Such political courage is hard to find these days; in California, they’re trying to kick the governor out of office, partially because he lacks such courage. Win or lose, Riley has shown he’s got bravery to spare.

Like most states, Alabama faces budget problems, specifically a $675 million shortfall next year.

Please. Revenues are expected to, like last year, increase.  The legislature simply spent $675 million more than it knew the state would take in.  They knew riley would take the fall for either a tax increase required to pay it off or for the resulting pro-ration.  Instead of pointing out the Legislature's over spending, Riley fell for it.

Alabama does suffer from some of the lowest quality of life standards in the nation.

What a total crock of shit! yeah, maybe for the people who don't work and thus don't get the free ride like in other states! My quality of life is much better than people in other states making the same salary, as I get to keep my money! Sure we don't have free sex change operations for state employees, and worthless "arts" programs, but that tends to INCREASE the quality of my life!

Alabama is one of the most anti-tax, anti-government states in America.

And Time acts like this is a BAD thing! Shows the worth of its opinion!

UAB Alumni Society Backs Riley Tax Plan The UAB National Alumni Society has thrown its support behind Governor Bob Riley's tax-reform plan for Alabama. At its annual retreat in July, the Alumni Society Board approved a resolution supporting Riley's $1.2-billion tax and accountability plan to resolve the state's most serious budget crisis since the Great Depression. Alabamians will vote on the Riley plan in a September 9 referendum. The plan would raise state property, income, and sales taxes, and other levies, by more than $1 billion a year and local taxes by another $123 million a year when it is fully phased in. Alabama has by far the lowest property taxes in the nation, while an unusually large share of the overall tax burden falls on middle- and low-income groups. Riley's plan is designed to make the state's tax system more fair, with large landowners and big timber companies taking on larger shares of the overall tax burden. Even if Riley's plan is fully implemented, Alabama's per capita property taxes will still be well below the Southeastern average and lower than every bordering state. Riley's plan will reform Alabama's K-12 education system both in the classroom and at the administrative level. Tenure will be reformed, and local school systems will have more flexibility, while being held strictly accountable for financial management. Classroom instruction time will be increased, and the plan calls for new initiatives in reading; math, science, and technology; and distance learning, along with a college-scholarship program. This is an important issue for this state, UAB, and for all of education in the State of Alabama," says Joe Davidson, executive director of the UAB Office of Alumni Affairs. "I know this is the most important vote in my adult life as a citizen of this state." The Constitution of Alabama requires the state to have a balanced budget, but a projected $700-million shortfall is looming. Riley's office says that unless appropriate action is taken, critical state services will have to be cut by October 1, 2003. The projected cuts would: - Eliminate nursing-home eligibility for 6,900 seniors on Medicaid. - Allow 25 of the state's poorest school systems to go bankrupt, affecting 100,000 children. - Make drastic cuts in classroom instruction. - Threaten health-care access for 450,000 citizens. - Cause the release of more than 5,000 prisoners. - Cut an already understaffed state trooper force by one-third. - Indefinitely suspend jury trials. The Alumni Society resolution notes that the Riley plan creates a more fair and equitable tax structure, bans pass-through pork and creates criminal penalties for legislators who attempt it, and requires school systems to be more accountable for their financial and hiring practices. This is for the future, and it sets a foundation for our state," Davidson says. "I hope everyone will take a real hard look at the issues and do the right thing, which I feel is a yes vote on September 9." August 27, at 12:00 noon, a rally will be held in support of Governor Riley's tax reform package in the Alumni Auditorium at the Hill University Center. Governor Riley will be there to speak in support of his plan. Please come out and say "yes" to Alabama's future.

With all the Riley-bashing that has gone on in this thread, I thought you guys might enjoy this e-mail a friend sent me today:

A little boy from Brundidge, Alabama, wanted a $100 bill very badly and prayed for weeks, but nothing happened. Then he decided to write God a letter requesting the $100 bill. When the postal authorities received the letter to God, they decided to  send it to Governor Bob Riley.  The governor was so amused that he instructed his secretary to send the little boy a $5 bill.  Governor Riley thought this would seem like a lot of money to a little boy. The little boy was delighted with the $5 bill and sat down to write a thank-you note to God, which read: "Thank you very much for sending the money.  However, I noticed that for some reason you sent it through Montgomery and that Bob Riley deducted $95.00 in TAXES!!!"

saw a bumper sticker today: "Bush giveth, Riley taketh away!"

Yeah?  Well this is one UAB alumnus who is NOT in favor of the tax plan!

WOW!! Some strong opinions posted here. I have no problem saying I voted for Governor Riley, and will do so again. I have met him and have always been impressed with him as a man and a politician. I will not be voting in favor of his tax plan and I do agree that we need to do something. As most of you here have stated the problem is in Montgomery, in the Legislator not the Governors office. The most outragious group in this state is the AEA, these folks need to be thrown out of the state, PERIOD! I have many friends in education and they all agree that the AEA is way too strong on the state house. I live in a small county in north Alabama and the Superintendent of education gets paid more than the Governor, a lot more! The teachers are on the low end of the scale and always get the dirty end of the stick. The education system here in Alabama is dismal, youngsters graduate from high school and have no more than a fifth grade education. Most have no math skills, no social skills, and no sense of this countries history. I see this each and every day in my travels around the state as I come in contact with these youngsters. We, as tax payers need to call a halt to this type of low level education for our children. I will always be against almost everything I see that says "it is for the children", HOGWASH!! It is for the politicians and the AEA to line their pockets. Y'all have a nice day.

Tony G

I did/will not vote for a liar. Riley lied. He also sold out to the AEA. Education and other problems start at the top. He should have come out firing against the AEA, too many 2 & 4 year colleges, wasteful spending, etc. Instead, he made promises, lied, and is now part of the establishment.  I voted Liberterian because both the elephants and jackasses appointed liars.

My wife & I have spent this lovely day driving around N. Alabama.  I've seen around a thousand "Vote NO" signs while I've only seen two "Vote Yes" signs.  Reckon this is any indication of how the vote will be?  

Rick