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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:13:31 PM EDT
[#1]
It's abit warm in my opinion.
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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:21:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Ever hear of .38 super?
Quite a few warmer loads run 124 grain at 1350 FPS and +500 FPE. |
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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:31:55 PM EDT
[#3]
But 357 Mag can spit a 125 gr at 700 ft-lb from a service revolver fairly easily.
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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:36:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Because chamber pressure is a thing.
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Posted: 3/26/2020 10:53:40 PM EDT
[#5]
357 Sig is higher than 357 Mag and still can't perform as well due to case volume.
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Posted: 3/26/2020 11:39:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Because the 357 magnum case is 1.29" long, and the only semi-auto rimless case that long is the 9mm Magnum - which can duplicate 357 Magnum power levels (you use the same loading data) but only was ever chambered in a very few Wildey semi-auto's that take huge hands to hold and fire.
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Posted: 3/26/2020 11:42:22 PM EDT
[#7]
It’s almost like someone should make a 10mm loading with a light JHP instead of heavy bullets. Oh wait, they do. But only little companies.
Anyone want to carry some Underwood Ammo up on their flight to Alaska? |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 4:29:17 AM EDT
[#8]
The 9x23mm Winchester cartridge does a good job of replicating the 125 grain .357 magnum.
For various reasons it did not become a commercial success, but ballistically it performs like most 4 inch .357s do. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 6:58:16 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Why was the 125 grain .357 magnum never successfully replicated in a rimless semi-auto? The .357 Sig was a heroic attempt, but it fell short. Why did it prove an impossible feat? To a certain extent even if it were replicated now it wouldn’t matter. The famous .357 Mag made its name when bullet technology was primitive. Raw velocity helped a lot in those days. Today bullet technology is much advanced. We don’t NEED Uber high speed to get bullet expansion. The 147 grain JHPs most serious 9x19mm fanboys load up usually saunter out of the barrel at subsonic velocity and yet still perform just fine. Does that make the .357 Magnum obsolete? Certainly not. I carry it daily. I prefer wheelguns at least partially because the bullet profile doesn’t matter for feeding. YMMV. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 7:21:55 AM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Why was the 125 grain .357 magnum never successfully replicated in a rimless semi-auto? The .357 Sig was a heroic attempt, but it fell short. Why did it prove an impossible feat? .357 SIG does replicate / exceed .357 magnum; underwood is launching 125gr @ 1500fps from a 4" barrel; typical 125gr .357 mag is 1400-1450fps. https://youtu.be/ughIFOrIP_w?t=81 Out of a G35 (same weapon size as a 4" .357 Revolver) its clocking 1600-1625fps. The biggest issue is the projectile.  The reason the .357 Mag 125gr was so effective was not just the velocity/energy, but also the super nasty SJHP projectile. 125gr SJHP explosively expands, then the front 1/2 of the bullet fragments off in fairly spectacular fashion. Then the base continues to penetrate and re-expand, ending up at around 80gr / 0.56" expansion / 12-14" penetration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8WNQxIjutc  What's needed is for a .357 SIG to be loaded with a a remington 125gr SJHP. Then performance would be identical. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 10:03:07 AM EDT
[#11]
As stated above, in barrels of comparable size the 357SIG and the mag are almost identical. Shooting a 357Sig should be compared to a revolver with a 2.5" barrel since the cylinder is not included when measuring length. So a Glock 35 would be a fair comparison to a 4" revolver (except holding 16 and lighter).
The 357Mag has a big advantage in bullet weight though. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 10:18:40 AM EDT
[#12]
Buffalo Bore has two different 125gr 357 Mag load doing ~1600 fps from a 4-inch barrel (service size) revolver.
357 Sig is good but just shy of 357 Mag and no where nearly as flexible and capable when you look at the broad range of loads you can shoot in the 357 Mag. From 38 Short Colt all they way up to 200+ gr projectiles. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 10:34:10 AM EDT
[#13]
IMO, when the round was originally developed, the wheel gun was the favored weapon of the LEO crowd.
Rimless cases don't work so well in revo's. Revolvers were THE police weapon of the time. Colt had already come out with the 38Super but it didn't do well in any platform except the 1911. My guess is no one wanted to bother with developing a semi pistol that could handle the round. Probably based on poor sales expectation. A semi pistol would of been massively heavy due to the tech of the time. Long guns were more in more powerful calibers so going that way didn't make a lot of sense either. I always thought a rimless .357 in the Winchester 1907/10 semi rifle would've been neat-o. Alas we'll never know. |
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Posted: 3/27/2020 10:45:23 AM EDT
[#14]
.40 Super and 9x25 Dillon both spank the .357 Mag. Dillon is 1700fps and 800ft/lbs while the Super is nearly 1800 fps and 1000ft lbs.
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Posted: 3/27/2020 12:44:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .357 SIG does replicate / exceed .357 magnum; underwood is launching 125gr @ 1500fps from a 4" barrel; typical 125gr .357 mag is 1400-1450fps. https://youtu.be/ughIFOrIP_w?t=81 Out of a G35 (same weapon size as a 4" .357 Revolver) its clocking 1600-1625fps. The biggest issue is the projectile. https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/420x420/f71b9ce6ba28c65e4f068b37f230a20d/4/8/485d3c0088fbe8f30fb0d3a415af3a10.jpg The reason the .357 Mag 125gr was so effective was not just the velocity/energy, but also the super nasty SJHP projectile. 125gr SJHP explosively expands, then the front 1/2 of the bullet fragments off in fairly spectacular fashion. Then the base continues to penetrate and re-expand, ending up at around 80gr / 0.56" expansion / 12-14" penetration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8WNQxIjutc https://i.ibb.co/r4VvFp2/Screen-Shot-2020-03-27-at-4-15-16-AM.png What's needed is for a .357 SIG to be loaded with a a remington 125gr SJHP. Then performance would be identical. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why was the 125 grain .357 magnum never successfully replicated in a rimless semi-auto? The .357 Sig was a heroic attempt, but it fell short. Why did it prove an impossible feat? .357 SIG does replicate / exceed .357 magnum; underwood is launching 125gr @ 1500fps from a 4" barrel; typical 125gr .357 mag is 1400-1450fps. https://youtu.be/ughIFOrIP_w?t=81 Out of a G35 (same weapon size as a 4" .357 Revolver) its clocking 1600-1625fps. The biggest issue is the projectile. https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/420x420/f71b9ce6ba28c65e4f068b37f230a20d/4/8/485d3c0088fbe8f30fb0d3a415af3a10.jpg The reason the .357 Mag 125gr was so effective was not just the velocity/energy, but also the super nasty SJHP projectile. 125gr SJHP explosively expands, then the front 1/2 of the bullet fragments off in fairly spectacular fashion. Then the base continues to penetrate and re-expand, ending up at around 80gr / 0.56" expansion / 12-14" penetration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8WNQxIjutc https://i.ibb.co/r4VvFp2/Screen-Shot-2020-03-27-at-4-15-16-AM.png What's needed is for a .357 SIG to be loaded with a a remington 125gr SJHP. Then performance would be identical. That bullet gets vaporized when shot from a 20" barrel |
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Posted: 3/28/2020 6:08:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .40 Super and 9x25 Dillon both spank the .357 Mag. Dillon is 1700fps and 800ft/lbs while the Super is nearly 1800 fps and 1000ft lbs. If we're playing that game then .460 Rowland for the win. |
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Posted: 3/28/2020 6:22:50 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If we're playing that game then .460 Rowland for the win. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: .40 Super and 9x25 Dillon both spank the .357 Mag. Dillon is 1700fps and 800ft/lbs while the Super is nearly 1800 fps and 1000ft lbs. If we're playing that game then .460 Rowland for the win. I prefer .40 Super. 135gr @ 1800FPS or 200gr @ 1400FPS. Not sure if there is a fast .460 Roland loading. |
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Posted: 3/28/2020 6:46:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I prefer .40 Super. 135gr @ 1800FPS or 200gr @ 1400FPS. Not sure if there is a fast .460 Roland loading. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: .40 Super and 9x25 Dillon both spank the .357 Mag. Dillon is 1700fps and 800ft/lbs while the Super is nearly 1800 fps and 1000ft lbs. If we're playing that game then .460 Rowland for the win. I prefer .40 Super. 135gr @ 1800FPS or 200gr @ 1400FPS. Not sure if there is a fast .460 Roland loading. 185gr JHP @1575fps 1019ft/lb. |
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Posted: 3/28/2020 7:05:59 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 3/29/2020 6:22:00 AM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 3/29/2020 9:08:16 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryThose ballistics via the chronograph are not realistic. Nobody loads a 125 grain bullet to 1830 fps in a 357 Sig, let alone Winchester. That would exceed 9X25 Dillon pushing a 125 grain bullet at 1700 fps as loaded by Doubletap and Underwood. Also, a 125 grain bullet at 1830 fps produces 929 ft lbs of muzzle energy - in the realm of 44 magnum - and it wouldn't produce the type of recoil seen in the video in an uncompensated pistol. |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 9:23:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s almost like someone should make a 10mm loading with a light JHP instead of heavy bullets. Oh wait, they do. But only little companies. Anyone want to carry some Underwood Ammo up on their flight to Alaska? Which Underwood load are you describing? |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 9:34:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those ballistics via the chronograph are not realistic. Nobody loads a 125 grain bullet to 1830 fps in a 357 Sig, let alone Winchester. That would exceed 9X25 Dillon pushing a 125 grain bullet at 1700 fps as loaded by Doubletap and Underwood. Also, a 125 grain bullet at 1830 fps produces 929 ft lbs of muzzle energy - in the realm of 44 magnum - and it wouldn't produce the type of recoil seen in the video in an uncompensated pistol. Yeah, something was funky with that chrono. 1400fps would be appropriate not 1800, even from a 16" barrel. |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 10:08:58 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryDaaaaaaannnngggg.... 
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Posted: 3/29/2020 10:09:43 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 185gr JHP @1575fps 1019ft/lb. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: .40 Super and 9x25 Dillon both spank the .357 Mag. Dillon is 1700fps and 800ft/lbs while the Super is nearly 1800 fps and 1000ft lbs. If we're playing that game then .460 Rowland for the win. I prefer .40 Super. 135gr @ 1800FPS or 200gr @ 1400FPS. Not sure if there is a fast .460 Roland loading. 185gr JHP @1575fps 1019ft/lb. Too slow. I had the option to convert my FNX-T to .40 Super or .460 Roland, and although the Roland is a tiny bit more powerful, i liked the larger range of bullet weights available with the .40 Super: 135 grain up to 220 grain hardcast. 99% of the time i shoot 135 grain load. It's a freaking laserbeam, has comparatively light recoil, and completely detonates jackrabbits and coyotes.  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/29/2020 8:36:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .357 SIG does replicate / exceed .357 magnum; underwood is launching 125gr @ 1500fps from a 4" barrel; typical 125gr .357 mag is 1400-1450fps. https://youtu.be/ughIFOrIP_w?t=81 Out of a G35 (same weapon size as a 4" .357 Revolver) its clocking 1600-1625fps. The biggest issue is the projectile. https://cdn-secure.luckygunner.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/420x420/f71b9ce6ba28c65e4f068b37f230a20d/4/8/485d3c0088fbe8f30fb0d3a415af3a10.jpg The reason the .357 Mag 125gr was so effective was not just the velocity/energy, but also the super nasty SJHP projectile. 125gr SJHP explosively expands, then the front 1/2 of the bullet fragments off in fairly spectacular fashion. Then the base continues to penetrate and re-expand, ending up at around 80gr / 0.56" expansion / 12-14" penetration. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8WNQxIjutc https://i.ibb.co/r4VvFp2/Screen-Shot-2020-03-27-at-4-15-16-AM.png What's needed is for a .357 SIG to be loaded with a a remington 125gr SJHP. Then performance would be identical. This... the bullet in a revolver doesn't need to reliably feed, like in a semi auto. I remember... decades ago, testing a 2 1/2" Ruger in 9x19 v. a 2 1/2" .357 Mag. ... same velocities ( 9MM Winc. 127gr +P+ v. .357 125gr Rem. SJHP... 1250ish for both ) fired into soggy dripping wet newspaper ( '80s DIY ballistic media, Lol ) ... the .357 left a massive hole in the first 6" section.. the 9x19 was about half the size... both penetrated about the same. The dramatic explosive expansion of the 357 mag left a VERY vivid impression on me.... and helped feed my pursuit of LtWt .40S&W 135gr loads. ( Back then load data was available for magnum powders, and when combined with fully supported barrels, very impressive velocities could be obtained from a 5" barrel. ) But , while those 135gr bullets expanded and fragmented wildly... ( more soggy wet newsprint testing )... they still never quite worked like the Semi-Jacketed Hollow Point .357 bullets. The .40S&W 135gr and 155gr loads worked quite well, and produced much better temp. cavities then 9MM bullets available at the time. So... IMHO, bullet designs helps take advantage of the .357 magnum velocities. Remove the issues involved with trying to feed a soft lead tipped bullet and focus on the easy consistent SJHP bullet... and you have a winner. Modern Poly Coated lead cored ammo shows promise... remember the Nyclad ammo from back "then"... one of the most consistent expanding 9MM rds available at one point in time. Segmented bullets will help with easy expansion and fragmenting. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 12:10:16 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which Underwood load are you describing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It’s almost like someone should make a 10mm loading with a light JHP instead of heavy bullets. Oh wait, they do. But only little companies. Anyone want to carry some Underwood Ammo up on their flight to Alaska? Which Underwood load are you describing? 135gr at 1600fps. https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/10mm-auto-135-grain-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785725284409 |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 5:41:10 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .357 SIG does replicate / exceed .357 magnum; underwood is launching 125gr @ 1500fps from a 4" barrel; typical 125gr .357 mag is 1400-1450fps. Fwiw underwood .357 mag will smoke that too. 125gr @1700fps. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 6:18:30 AM EDT
[#29]
There is a theory in some circles that the impressive stop statistics from 125 grain .357 magnum are due in part to the muzzle flash and muzzle blast, as many of the shootings took place at night, resulting in a psychological stop
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Posted: 3/30/2020 10:24:37 AM EDT
[#30]
Was just thinking and kind of laughing at how impressive .357 magnum is out of a rifle [and it is] while .30 carbine is laughed at for how weak it is and how it couldn't even penetrate Chinese quilted coats.
with a modern bullet design, .30 carbine would seriously mess up a persons day at 2K FPS. |
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Posted: 3/30/2020 11:47:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: It’s almost like someone should make a 10mm loading with a light JHP instead of heavy bullets. Oh wait, they do. But only little companies. Anyone want to carry some Underwood Ammo up on their flight to Alaska? Which Underwood load are you describing? 135gr at 1600fps. https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/10mm-auto-135-grain-jacketed-hollow-point?variant=18785725284409 This was the first thing that popped into my head when I saw this thread. |
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Posted: 3/31/2020 7:15:40 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fwiw underwood .357 mag will smoke that too. 125gr @1700fps. Well as I mentioned, there's the issue of weapon size, and how revolver vs pistol barrels are measured. First: Ruger GP100 4" = 9.5" OAL Glock 35 w/ 5.35" .357 SIG barrel = 8.82" OAL Ruger SP101 2.25" = 7.2" OAL Glock 32 4" = 7.36" The reason for that disparity is that Pistols are measured at the chamber, while revolvers do not measure the chamber area.  So in effect, in a direct comparison, you end up with: Ruger GP100 "4" = 4" barrel + 1.59" chamber = really a 5.59" barrel Notably, when working with Quickload, that is how you measure the 'barrel length' for working up revolver loads. Trying to use the Revolver barrel length without the chamber area gives incorrect data. So getting back to it, the actual fair comparison ends up: .357 SIG Underwood 5.3" = 1625fps .357 Mag Underwood 5.59" = 1700fps Which is really a pretty meaningless difference in performance. Getting even more into it, we have the OP's question, which really pertains to the legendary 'street stopper' performance of the .357 Magnum. While the .357 can be max loaded to 1600-1700fps, the actual rounds that built the magnums street performance (Remington and Federal 125gr SJHP) were all loaded to 1400-1450fps from a 4" revolver. In which case, the answer to OP's question is that while .357 SIG and 9x23 comfortably achieve the velocity of the .357 street loads, they lacked the same spectacular performance due to using wildly different projectiles. |
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Posted: 4/1/2020 4:37:40 PM EDT
[#33]
I've loaded actual .357" JHP bullets in the 357 SIG and from a 4.5" (KKM) barrel it will run:
125gr JHP @ 1600+ fps 140gr JHP @ 1450 fps 158gr JHP @ 1385 fps So yes it can be done with actual .357" bullets, now as to why they chose the .355" 9mm bullets, well I don't really know, maybe to make it possible to use some existing 9mm bullets and perhaps it helps with reloading. I wouldn't say the 357 SIG was a failure to get there, while yes the bullets used are typically .355", I don't think there's going to be a world of difference between .355" and .357" other than slight variations in bullet design. But again, if you reload, you can run .357" bullets in it. (BTW some have used 180gr .357 in 357 SIG but I never did) Also, those loads above from a 6" barrel (note loads above are average velocities from a 4.5", so the 6" added more) were all within 50 fps of a 357 Magnum GP100 6" using hot handloads as well. SO yes the 357 Mag is more powerful, but oddly enough, not by that much. |
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Posted: 4/1/2020 4:48:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've loaded actual .357" JHP bullets in the 357 SIG and from a 4.5" (KKM) barrel it will run: 125gr JHP @ 1600+ fps 140gr JHP @ 1450 fps 158gr JHP @ 1385 fps That's awesome. Which 125gr were you using? I've always wanted a 125gr SJHP SIG using the Remington projectile. |
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Posted: 4/1/2020 5:05:29 PM EDT
[#35]
Those were done using .357" Hornady XTP but so long as the profile works for feeding, I don't see why a SJHP wouldn't work just as well. Powder used was 800X
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Posted: 4/12/2020 10:21:58 AM EDT
[#36]
You guys can argue velocity all day long, that's not the issue. It's all about the bullet design.
Take a look at those old Federal and Remington bullets, both sported a semijacketed hollowpoint that had lots of soft, exposed lead. When it opened at magnum velocities, that lead created secondary shards really made a mess of things while the bulk of the bullet cut and tore tissue. Today's modern autos can get close enough to those velocities but few of them can reliably feed a soft tipped semijacketed hollopoint. |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 10:28:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys can argue velocity all day long, that's not the issue. It's all about the bullet design. Take a look at those old Federal and Remington bullets, both sported a semijacketed hollowpoint that had lots of soft, exposed lead. When it opened at magnum velocities, that lead created secondary shards really made a mess of things while the bulk of the bullet cut and tore tissue. Today's modern autos can get close enough to those velocities but few of them can reliably feed a soft tipped semijacketed hollopoint. They’re also not limited to 6 or 7 shots before a slow reload, hence why even the anemic 9mm is super popular. I’ll take 15rnds of 9x25 or 10mm Auto over a .357 revolver any day of the week |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 3:32:47 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They’re also not limited to 6 or 7 shots before a slow reload, hence why even the anemic 9mm is super popular. I’ll take 15rnds of 9x25 or 10mm Auto over a .357 revolver any day of the week If you can't hit what you're aiming at with 6 shots from a .357 you probably need a rifle. If you can't stop whatever you're shooting with 6 rounds of .357 you definitely need a rifle. |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 3:51:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can't hit what you're aiming at with 6 shots from a .357 you probably need a rifle. If you can't stop whatever you're shooting with 6 rounds of .357 you definitely need a rifle. That's fine for 1 on 1 maybe, but what if you must defend against multiple attacker's, which seems to be increasingly common with home invasions and robberies? Probably still fine if your location and patterns of travel are in low crime areas, but as it is, it's unlikely any of us will be in a self defense shooting, but we all know it can happen to anyone at nearly any time. and has to several on this forum, so rather than telling someone what to use, maybe just advocate a person analyze their patterns of life and likely worst and most likely threats and decide for themselves eh? |
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Posted: 4/12/2020 4:14:06 PM EDT
[#40]
woudlnt 9x25 fit the bill? 1700 FPS 8oo lbft energy, 125 JHP. high capacity automatic capable(in a 1911 it would be like 8 rounds), in a double stack it would be like 12.
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Posted: 4/12/2020 4:31:30 PM EDT
[#41]
30 carbine M1
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Posted: 4/12/2020 5:45:36 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you can't hit what you're aiming at with 6 shots from a .357 you probably need a rifle. If you can't stop whatever you're shooting with 6 rounds of .357 you definitely need a rifle. Sort of like “nobody needs more than 10 bullets in a magazine” right? You do realize there are thousands of examples of multiple assailants, druggies, and four legged critters that fail to go down after several solid hits from respectable calibers right? Leave the revolvers to the cowboy action larpers, or for the cartridges with enough oomph to matter. Anything under 44mag in a revolver tends to be a waste of effort...unless it’s a .22 revolver for plinking. All handguns are poor performers in general, so capacity wins the game of the day... |
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Posted: 4/16/2020 11:56:46 PM EDT
[#43]
38 Super in a 1911 way back when. It seemed to do the trick.
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Posted: 4/17/2020 8:47:33 AM EDT
[#44]
Underwood 10mm 135 grain? 1600 FPS
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Posted: 4/17/2020 11:31:02 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: Why was the 125 grain .357 magnum never successfully replicated in a rimless semi-auto? The .357 Sig was a heroic attempt, but it fell short. Why did it prove an impossible feat? Case capacity: For equal pressures and equal bore diameters the larger capacity case will have more energy to give the projectile The .357 Mag. has a volume of 1.70 cm3 max pressure 35k psi .357 Sig 1.27 cm3 40k psi 9x25 Dillon 1.48 cm3 37k psi .38 Super 1.14 cm3 36.5k psi Case volume % diff .357 MAG VS. .357 Sig +25% .357 MAG VS. 9x25 +13% .357 mag vs .38 Super +33% Pressure % diff .357 MAG VS. .357 Sig -14% .357 MAG VS. 9x25 -6% .357 mag vs .38 Super -4% Percentage wise the .357 Mag wins with its case volume making up for it's lower operating pressure. |
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Posted: 4/18/2020 11:49:57 PM EDT
[#46]
in all the GSW patients I have worked on in 27 years at 4 hospitals ( 2 trauma centers), the 357 magnum has shown to be a huge difference that other calibers. that 125gr remington load was/is perfect for human incapacitation. every 66 in the house is loaded with it.
torso wounds are DOA or die in surgery. several have died from arm/shoulder and leg wounds after going into a wicked shock and DIC. thats from 1 wound, not 4 or 5. BITD I was working in areas where LEO's still could carry revolvers. TPD, OKCPD and OHP, so we worked on quite a few. 357 mag- gives all its energy in a massive dump. those patients were never coherent and talkative like GSW patients from other calibers. without a doubt, the most respected caliber and much talked about when working on those people. I've given more blood products trying to save those people in mass transfusions than any other caliber. I would love to see a really good test with those remington SJHP 125 bullets in a 357 sig. that would be very interesting. |
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Posted: 4/19/2020 8:44:01 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: in all the GSW patients I have worked on in 27 years at 4 hospitals ( 2 trauma centers), the 357 magnum has shown to be a huge difference that other calibers. that 125gr remington load was/is perfect for human incapacitation. every 66 in the house is loaded with it. torso wounds are DOA or die in surgery. several have died from arm/shoulder and leg wounds after going into a wicked shock and DIC. thats from 1 wound, not 4 or 5. BITD I was working in areas where LEO's still could carry revolvers. TPD, OKCPD and OHP, so we worked on quite a few. 357 mag- gives all its energy in a massive dump. those patients were never coherent and talkative like GSW patients from other calibers. without a doubt, the most respected caliber and much talked about when working on those people. I've given more blood products trying to save those people in mass transfusions than any other caliber. I would love to see a really good test with those remington SJHP 125 bullets in a 357 sig. that would be very interesting. Very interesting! Thanks for sharing. |
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Posted: 5/5/2020 8:17:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By redloh: You guys can argue velocity all day long, that's not the issue. It's all about the bullet design. Take a look at those old Federal and Remington bullets, both sported a semijacketed hollowpoint that had lots of soft, exposed lead. When it opened at magnum velocities, that lead created secondary shards really made a mess of things while the bulk of the bullet cut and tore tissue. Today's modern autos can get close enough to those velocities but few of them can reliably feed a soft tipped semijacketed hollopoint. I fully agree with this. Years ago, my friend and I both had Ruger SP101's .. his is .357, mine 9MM, both have 2 1/2" barrels He fired a SJHP 125gr , I fired a Winc. 127gr +P+.... velocity was close enough between the 2 , that any difference could be attributed to standard deviation. We fired both rounds into the same 24hr soaked , soggy, dripping wet newsprint. The difference between the 2 bullets designs .. was dramatic. The .357 Magnum SJHP produced a massive temp cavity, and penetrated as far as the 9MM 127gr +p+ The 9mm 127gr +p+ was great, but know where near the size of the .357 temp cavity. For those of you not familiar with soggy dripping wet newsprint testing.... the temp cavity and wound channel remain in place, and you can flip through the stack of newsprint to look at the results. |
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Posted: 5/5/2020 10:21:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By OKnativeson: in all the GSW patients I have worked on in 27 years at 4 hospitals ( 2 trauma centers), the 357 magnum has shown to be a huge difference that other calibers. that 125gr remington load was/is perfect for human incapacitation. every 66 in the house is loaded with it. torso wounds are DOA or die in surgery. several have died from arm/shoulder and leg wounds after going into a wicked shock and DIC. thats from 1 wound, not 4 or 5. BITD I was working in areas where LEO's still could carry revolvers. TPD, OKCPD and OHP, so we worked on quite a few. 357 mag- gives all its energy in a massive dump. those patients were never coherent and talkative like GSW patients from other calibers. without a doubt, the most respected caliber and much talked about when working on those people. I've given more blood products trying to save those people in mass transfusions than any other caliber. I would love to see a really good test with those remington SJHP 125 bullets in a 357 sig. that would be very interesting. Thank you for sharing. Clearly, the world needs a SJHP .357 SIG. |
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Posted: 6/2/2020 11:11:52 AM EDT
[#50]
If you want the .357 Magnum in a semi-auto pistol there is Desert Eagle and Coonan Arms.
I like and use the 9x23, it fits in a .38 Super type pistol and offers .357 Magnum performance. |
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