This is something I've always wondered about especially with foreign militaries and LE.

Price?

9mm mo betta

Buncha bitches

Not metric.

Caliber

Pussies, pussies everywhere.

I'm surprised many don't stop at .380 Kurz.

You mean 11.45mm?

Aside from Norway, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina, Greece, Turkey, Taiwan, Thailand, Philippines and so on?

Where you get that nonsense from?

I think a number of countries limit civilian possession of handguns made in military cartridges.  Like Mexico, which is why 38 Super was popular in 1911s instead of .45ACP.

This might be internet myth though.

All the Columbian/Mexican cartel movies I have seen, the cartel dudes love them some 1911s…the flashier the better. Of course, don’t know if that’s actually the case or it’s a Hollywood thang…

Big, scary, recoil, loud, and so on.

Sure it it.  It's the common 11.43mm.

1911's in .38 Super are common in Mexico because "military calibers" are banned for civilians

Too boku for limp wrists.

What 45's were used/popular in those countries?

Don’t forget the .455 Webley revolver and semi auto.

Former colonial states will carry what their colonizers carried.

That's my suspicion.

Also, Asians are small........and thank God.  How else could I get an Asian to fall for this average-sized American?  

1911s including license built versions or versions there of (1927, Ballister-Molina, Obregn, etc.).

There's this cool new fad called "the internet"  which would help you find information.

Do the Japanese still use the P220?

Isn't 38 super the preferred choice in 1911s in Mexico?

I posted my question on the internet. Isn't that the purpose of discussion forums? Sorry I struck a nerve. I'm not denigrating the cartridge. In fact, I'm a fan of it.

45 ACP has been around for 116 years and all you can come up with is limited 1911 use from a century ago? The Luger chambered in 45 ACP was made for US military trials. Nobody else wanted it. The 9mm has seen far greater use worldwide. Why?

They produce a licensed copy called the Minebea P-9, but I believe it is in 9mm.

A little guy called 9x19 was already huge.

Because in all reality it doesn't do anything a 9mm won't do. Most people can't shoot pistols very well, even if it's their job to carry one. Smaller and lighter recoiling guns allow more people to be proficient with them. 9mm is also pretty big when you consider that 32 acp and 380 acp were popular police calibers for many countries in Europe.

Mostly in .38 super for the reason listed above.

Mexico bought 5,400 Colts in .45 ACP 1922-41.  The domestic Obregn was also in .45 ACP but there was only about 1000 made.

Is that a list of 1921 users?

The Type 86 is current equipment with it's using country.   Others, like the T51, are being replaced (in recent times).  And only one specific military command uses the GRSAN .45.  

There's a bunch more users that have a mix of pistols that includes (usually) 1911s.  

Do 90 or so countries militaries use 9mm?  Yes.  Why?  Since 1962 it's NATO standard.  That means the major military pistol makers (who are European or European-derived in the case of SIG USA) make and market 9mm service pistols. And the ammunition is cheaper.  Not that pistols are ever a massive deal with military forces (even tiny countries that have 50 pistols - all 1911s they got from foreign aid).

Police go with (a) whatever they can get for free (3rd world) or (b) the cheapest pistol that's "reliable" - which is why Glocks are so popular.

Over seas the 9mm is considered like a 44 magnum.
For years the .32 acp was like the big European cartridge.

"Why was 45 ACP never popular outside the US?"

Because nobody else is man enough!

the 45 does nothing 9mm doesn't do and 380 and 9 para were the dominant calibers so most didn't see a need to switch

For the same reason that 9mm was not popular in the US in the early days...

NOT INVENTED HERE!

Nationalism is a powerful force.

Kinda like how we went with the M14 instead of the FAL.

Bingo!

Because in the end, handguns are pretty useless, and tended to be valued for being handy, more than for actual combat effectiveness as primary arm while being charged by hordes of depraved enemy.  The US was about the only country who's spec was: :your handgun will be your primary arm defending against drugged out Philipina Islamic Terrorists charging you in mass."   Everyone's else' spec was - your rifle and machine-gun is your primary arm, and the handgun is to be something light and handy showing status for the officer to waive around and point at stuff to indicate where the troops are to fire.

Rifles are for actual combat. Pistols are for Oh-shit last ditch.  

The .45 was huge, making it a terriblly viewed every-day carry gun for polite society or officers who aren't supposed to fight, yet still has the range of just being a pistol.  

It also was developed when the rest of the world was transition from slow-heavy, to light-fast philosophy in all arms.  Compounded by the SMG advent.  Where a 45 SMG is a heavy recoiling low-round short range SMG.  A fast 9mm carried more, held more, was easier to keep on target, and fired farther.  

Where .45 ACP shines, is in comparing the terminal performance of FMJ shot-for-shot compared to 9mm (or .38 Special, which is what it was really compared to).  Aside from 1 shot to 1 shot comparison of FMJ ball, the actually performance effectiveness of .45 to 9mm falls off fast.

even when comparing only one shot of fmj, the 45 does nothing the 9mm won't

True. Especially in countries where police/gov't types are using the guns against unarmed populations. In 90% of the world (especially in Europe) it is very unlikely for police to face someone armed with a firearm. So shooting some rowdy drunk with a .32, .380 etc was good enough. And despite the folklore a FMJ 45 is not much better than an FMJ 9mm: If you hit bone or vitals, they will stop otherwise they just run around continuing mischief. If it wasnt for the ferocious (and highly drugged) Moros Warriors in the Phillipines, the US would most likely have stuck with a .38/9mm cal. The US Army felt that the 38 cal revolvers were just not putting them down fast enough and re-issued .45 Colt revolvers. Just a few years later, the 45 ACP was adopted. But I think this was more due to a really anemic .38 loading and tactics rather then any great capability of .45 cal slugs.

Heathens

I'm just spitballing here, but I suspect that there is also a "raw material cost" related to cartridge selection.  That isn't a big deal to a peacetime military, especially one using handguns primarily as status symbols or last ditch weapons for people who have jobs other than firing small arms.  However, consider that in a conflict like WWII a country could make two 9mm bullets for the same material cost as 1 .45 caliber bullet.  Over billions (or trillions) of rounds of ammunition that is a huge difference in material requirements.  Sub machineguns played a huge role in WWII and being able to make twice as much ammunition for a 9mm one over a .45 ACP one using the same materials is significant.   Then there are issues like similar effectiveness, ammunition capacity, feed reliability, etc.  Hell, the Soviets used the same bore diameter for handguns, SMGs, rifles, and machineguns at least in part because doing so made for more efficient manufacturing.  Even making 1.4 bullets to 1 bullet (86 grain 7.62x25mm vs. 115-124 grain 9mm) is significant over billions (or trillions) of bullets.

NATO/WWII

Before NATO’s formation everyone used their own off the wall cartridges or WWII leftovers. WWII taught a lot of countries that standardization is a good thing.

There was an awful lot of surplus 9mm after 1945. Germany had arms treaties and lots of their weapons went to rebuilding/developing countries as well as here in the states. Hell, most of it was outright given away.  

Add to it you had a few existing 9mm auto pistols versus pretty much only the 1911 in 45, and it all adds up. Free 9mm ammo and guns, or expensive 45 and only one type of gun.

They were in use all over the world for a few years in the 1940's.  

Maybe most countries aren't as kick ass/blood thirsty as a bunch of pissed of US soldiers/marines.  Hurry up, get the job done and get home again.

Pretty useless

" When last seen alive, Sergeant Baker was propped against a tree, pistol in hand, calmly facing the foe. Later Sergeant Baker's body was found in the same position, gun empty, with eight Japanese lying dead before him. His deeds were in keeping with the highest traditions of the U.S. Army."

Full citation

"or .38 Special, which is what it was really compared to"
Im not sure if you mean in the Philippines or just in general. The .38 special was not what was issued at the time of the moro insurrection. The .38 long colt was either a 125 or 150gr bullet in the mid 700fps.

Because, 'Merica! That's why.

With all the knowledge we have about modern self defense incidents, I'm a bit skeptical of stories like these (Sgt York killing 6 Germans with 6 shots from his pistol). Not saying these things didn't happen as cited, but I can't help but wonder about the details.

I saw an insurgent drop dead from a single 9mm.

Handguns dont suck as much as people here like to perpetuate. All the stories of bad guys taking dozens of hits to stop are the outliers.

Small arms do weird things sometimes though. I nailed a guy at 10-15 yards in the face with buckshot once and he kept trying to pick up his AK but he couldn't find it because he didn't have eyeballs anymore.

I saw guys get stitched center mass with a 240 at close range and keep going.

My brother in law took a 762x54 to the grape but it just knocked him out and gave him a nice scar.

Because it's God's caliber and God doesn't love other countries like he loves us, it's also why he told St Browning how to design the 1911.

Wimpy Euros

Filipinos like it

Shit, a lot of Euros used 380 because 9mm Luger was outlawed as a "war" round.
Lame

Well, yes and no, from my reading.

If you shoot people in the nonvitals, then taking dozens of hits is likely the norm barring psychological stops. I could probably put 10, 20 rounds of 230 gr +P HST into someone's arms, legs, intestines and superficial muscle walls and I imagine they'd still have the mental faculties to act for a while as long as you didn't hit the major arteries of the trunk or legs. Of course if you shoot their limbs that many times they may end up being crippled from mechanical damage, but that's not the same thing as oxygen deprivation.

If you shoot people in the vitals then incapacitation can be expected to occur much faster with fewer rounds. The 'vitals' for this purpose though are largely limited to the heart, great vessels, and (though it takes more damage) the lungs. Shots to the mid-abdominal organs like the kidneys and liver might be highly lethal but are probably not very quickly incapacitating in most cases, especially with handgun rounds - blood flow is much lower, the shots don't directly cut off the cardiac-pulmonary pressure circuit, they serve no immediately necessary purpose, and the effect of adrenaline further reduces blood flow to (and, therefore, blood loss out of) these organs.

Usually bad guys taking dozens of hits has something to do with poor shot placement and/or poor bullet performance. In 1986 Miami, for instance, one robber took 12 hits and the other took 6, but each only took a single potentially fatal hit prior to the delivery of the final CNS shots. James Gilkerson was shot 18 times - only 2 of those rounds hit vitals. Even Timothy Gramins landed only 3 shots out of 14 in the thoracic cavity.

The other takeaway however is that while these suspects didn't actually take dozens of vital hits as often pervades in popular conception, one should also not sway too far in the other direction and assume a double tap to the chest is reliable for physically incapacitating an opponent. It may not take a lot of vital hits but it may take more than many people think, and in the case of FMJ, it may end up being a lot after all since they only create a wound a fraction as voluminous as premier JHPs.

Personally, I am willing to believe that York & co. may have indeed dropped a man with every shot, but my guess is that many of those enemy soldiers may have been hit in the CNS or just fainted or voluntarily stopped due to psychological reasons.

their husbands said "no"

Interestingly, at one time the Mexico City police issued 10mm Delta Elites,  and the 10mm AUTO was never a designated 'military' cartridge other than on Miami Vice.

So maybe the idea isn't an Internet myth.