I'm still toying with commercial loads in my pocket gun, a Magnum Industries DE Micro 380.

I never have feed issues. What's the best combo of weight and powder? And no saying 9mm...

Underwood Xtreme Defender 65gr

Thanks. It has quite the generic description lol:

The Xtreme Defender is based on the popular Xtreme Penetrator product line. The XD ammunition has an optimized nose flute, total weight, and velocity to achieve a penetration depth up to 18 inches* with a permanent wound cavity (PWC) that is just simply enormous; no other expanding hollowpoint comes close to achieving anywhere near this diameter and volume. Not only is the PWC over 100% larger than any other expanding bullet, expansion is achieved despite being shot through barriers. The solid copper body ensures that wallboard, sheet metal, and automotive glass will have no effect on the Permanent Wound Channel.

Critical Defense.

Hornady xtp

XTP bullet loaded by whoever you want.

And, I saw a SHOT press release on some new load that’s supposed to meet the FBI standard in gel and heavy clothing. Don’t remember which company.

But currently, XTP.

.380 is a hard cartridge to find good ammo for. It really doesn't have enough energy to both expand well and penetrate well. 9mm and above typically do, but not .380, especially when you consider the micro pistols with barrel lengths less than 3".

To understand why, we have to kinda get off into the weeds a little. As a result, the tl;dr crowd might as well scroll on down.

Human tissues are typically very elastic and will stretch quite a bit before tearing. The threshold for exceeding the elastic limits of human tissues is generally around 2200 feet per second of velocity. Below 2200FPS, all you are doing is punching a hole in the tissues. That's it, just punching a hole. Tissue that the bullet doesn't physically touch isn't harmed because they just kinda flow out of the way, then snap back into place. Above 2200FPS, when you start to exceed the elastic limits of the tissues, you start to get ripping and tearing of the tissues and you start to get damage to tissues that the bullet doesn't physically touch. Typical service caliber pistols don't get anywhere near 2200FPS, so all you are doing is punching a relatively small diameter hole. Hollow points help a little, because they expand a little and make a little bigger hole. This is why people in the know say that pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles. Rifle cartridges typically exceed 2200FPS and cause quite a bit more damage to human tissues.

As said above, .380 typically doesn't have enough energy to both expand well and penetrate well. Typically, you will either get good expansion and poor penetration or poor expansion and good penetration. Examples of good expansion and poor penetration is Federal's HST. In service calibers, HST is one of the standards by which handgun cartridges are compared. They expand VERY well while offering very good penetration. The problem is that service calibers have enough energy to both expand well while also penetrating well. .380 does not have that much energy. In .380, HST expands very well (I think I remember that it expands to .6" or larger) but penetration is grossly inadequate, with only 8-9" of penetration, WELL below the FBI's recommended minimum penetration of 12" of organic ballistic gel. At the other end of the spectrum (poor expansion and good penetration) is FMJ. Absolutely no expansion at all and, usually, over 24" of penetration, which grossly exceeds the FBI maximum penetration value of 18".

Adequate penetration with minimal expansion is the key when dealing with the limited energy if the .380 cartridge. .380 will never be equivalent to the other, larger service calibers (9mm and above), but careful selection can get bullets that penetrate at least 12" with some modest degree of expansion, but which will reliably expand. Minimal expansion, but some. Based on gel testing, the best cartridges seem to be any of those loaded with Hornady's XTP bullet. Some are loaded a little faster than others, and those will usually expand a little more and penetrate a little less, but testing of all them I have seen says that they will all exceed 12" of penetration with some expansion, even through heavy clothing. Any of the loadings using the XTP bullet seem to be the best currently available. Myself, I am currently loading my Glock 42 with Hornady's American Gunner. It uses the XTP bullet and is pretty cost effective while still being adequate for penetration and expansion.

Honorable mention goes to Speer Gold Dot and Federal's original, old school Hydra Shok. Gold Dots will typically expand more than XTP and penetrate a little less. Gold Dots typically penetrate to 11" or so, which should be close enuogh to 12" to still work reasonably well, but technically they fail because they don't reach 12". They also expand well even though heavy clothing. Hydra Shoks expand reasonably well in bare gel, but don't expand well through heavy clothes. They will, however, reach a minimum of 12" of expansion, while usually not exceeding 18".

I'm very eager to see what the newly announced Fedreral Hydra Shok Deep will do in .380. In the calibers it is currently produced in, it expands modestly and penetrates more deeply than other hollow points. If they can keep that performance in .380, it may be the best option.

On the subject of the Lehigh Xtreme Defense cartridges, I'm VERY leery of the performance claims. Keep in mind, .380 bullets are way too slow to cause ripping and tearing in human tissues. Their claim is that the bullet design redirects fluids and tissues to cause larger wound channels. If the bullet is going too slow to rip and tear, the redirected fluids are also going too slow to cause ripping and tearing. In tissues, they should perform about like a FMJ bullet. I want them to work because if they do, they may well be the best option. However, I highly doubt they will. Myself, I'd hold off on carrying them until there are some actual shootings with them and we see how they really work.

In the end, shot placement is king, adequate penetration is queen and everything else is way down the list. Pick a good cartridge, even if you end up picking FMJ, and practice, practice, practice. Even with bigger, service-sized guns, you need to be able to draw and place a bullet in a vital area quickly, accurately and on demand any time you draw the gun. The smaller, micro sized guns are even harder to shoot and you need to train and practice more with them and the same standards apply to them, as well. If you can do that, every time, on demand, and load with good quality, reliable ammunition, you will be good to go.

TL;DR = XTP

Right gives good results in the various testing.   But kinda whatever feeds and penetrates

This, American gunner 90 grain

I use good regular ball ammo. Haven't found any hp ammo in 380 that penetrates deep enough.

Yes pistols are typically far less lethal than rifles, but there is more to it than just velocity. I keep hearing people throw out this "magical" fps threshold 2xxxfps  to achieve rifle ballistics.

Bullet weight, dimensions, construction, and energy on target are part of the equation as well. The bullet also needs a mechanism inside of the target that abruptly slows it down to dump its energy.

A fmj traveling 3000fps that doesn't yaw, expand, or fragment is just going to ice pick. A spitzer bullet moving 1900fps that does one of the above and dumps 800+ft.lbs into the target is going to create far more damage.

Exit wound on a hog from a 110g Tac-TX (9"barrel) at 70 yards moving approximately 1940fps and 920-ft.lbs at impact.


Much larger hole than the size of the expanded bullet.

ETA: I apologize OP for derailing your thread. As mentioned above, the XTP does pretty good and is what I have in my .380. Shooting the Bull's test show them as having the best combination of expansion and penetration.

This.

It's probably the best thing for 380.

.380 is the only caliber I Dutch load.

After the first 3 or 4 XTP rounds I alternate FMJ with XTP

My wife carries the Glock 42 because she prefers it and she’s confident with her skills with it.

The .380 XTP load from Hornady

Straight ball.  Or +p ball too.  Go for penetration cuz .380 doesn't have the velocity to expand reliably and most .380's don't feed HP's reliably enough to make it worth the trouble.

When it comes to low power rounds just go with what feeds the pipe every time.

I have had LCP's, Cheetas, 81's, P238's, PPK's to base this from.  Ball is the only way to use .380's from with any chance of reliability.

What you failed to mention is that since the Lehigh bullets are so light they USUALLY penetrate less than ball. Even if as you say, "they are way too slow to cause ripping and tearing", you still have a .355 caliber hole in someone that doesn't leave their body. Since they are about as barrier blind as FMJs this is a good thing, except for the fact that they WILL NOT overpenetrate.

I too would like to see some street results on this, but am not willing to go to jail for shooting people with them. Usually I carry a larger caliber for self defense......

I've been using the Hornady Critical Defense

This video is worth the watch.
Paul Harrell on 380 ammo

XTP

Good stuff here.

Anything XTP

Buffalo Bore or Underwood 100gr flat nose hardcast

HST or Ranger, its always the same from me regardless of caliber...

Very impressive looking on YouTube testing videos. I'm considering this for my BU 380 as well as my primary 9/357 sig.

If you want tried and true, conventional ammo the clear winner is the XTP bullet ammo as loaded by various manufacturers. If you feel you want something more cutting edge the Underwood Defender 65gr is an alternate choice.

I'm waiting for test results from the new hydra-shok deep.