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Posted: 3/19/2019 8:10:17 PM EDT
Just picked up a VOPO Luger...typical Russian black finish, with the reddish "bullseye" grips. Comes with 2 mags and a holster. Should be arriving at my FFL soon.
I've found a little background information on the VOPO Lugers as follows: Imported between 1996 and 1999, primarily by Miltex of La Plata, Maryland. These Russian re-worked 9mm Luger pistols, were the first surplus Lugers imported to the United States since 1960s military surplus boom. Primarily captured by Soviet troops during WWII, these Lugers may be found with original matching or non-matching numbers. Many were re-marked by the Russians, with examples having re-stamped matching numbers done by steel die or electro penciling. Issued to East German military and Volks Polizei (hence the People's Police, nickname VOPO), most had the walnut grips removed by the Russians, and were stored in barrels of oil to preserve them until they were re-issued to the German Democratic Republic in 1946. It is believed they were removed from East German service by 1958. Black-lined hard rubber or plastic grips made both in Russia and Hungary were fitted to these pistols, as well as the more commonly encountered, East German-made brown checkered plastic grips that has a target-style design at the top. Many VOPO Lugers have Nazi Waffenampt "scrubbed" or a remaining Reich's Eagle with an obliterated swastika. Many are found with no German proofs at all. Snubbed by collectors at first, they now have a following and are a complete area of Luger collecting all to their own. Some re-barreled examples have an East German Crown over N marking on lower barrel, reflecting a replacement. Anyone have anything to add? Anything else interesting or significant about these particular pistols or their use by the Volkspolizei? What did they use after withdrawing the Luger from service, did they go to P38s at that time? |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 7:36:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Report back once you get it, if a true VOPO pistol it should have East German proof marks.
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Posted: 3/22/2019 12:36:37 AM EDT
[#2]
Picked it up from my FFL today. It's actually my second Luger, but first in 9mm.
There is a "crown over U" with another symbol in several places. The barrel has a "crown over N" stamp on the underside. Came with the holster and two magazines. The auction said the holster was pigskin....I kind of believe that as it has a "pebble grain" texture similar to a football. Both mags are aluminum based, both numbered on the bottom although they match neither the pistol nor each other. Both have code stamps 2/1001, which I have read denotes post-war East German (DDR) manufacture, by Haenel.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/22/2019 12:59:09 AM EDT
[#3]
 Attached File Attached FileNo idea what the stamp below the takedown lever is supposed to be. If you'd like to see anything else, let me know and I'll do my best to get a photo of that area. Thanks for anything you can tell me about this one or about VOPOs in general! |
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Posted: 3/23/2019 7:14:08 PM EDT
[#4]
@P08
I tried to take some better pictures of a few things after looking at some of the markings under magnification at a friend's place. The eagle over the "crown U" on the side of the receiver looks like it has a shield-shaped marking on its chest.  Attached FileLittle better shot of the stamps on the right side of the receiver.  Attached FileStill can't get a great picture of this "starburst" or "spoked wheel" looking stamp below the takedown lever, but this is a better photo than before.  Attached FileSo.....what do I have here? |
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Posted: 3/23/2019 7:57:26 PM EDT
[#5]
I believe the proof below the take down lever is a East German mark. The Crown U is mostly found on pre WWI commercial guns, not sure of the stamp in front of it, but probably another post WWII stamp. The fractur proofs on the right side are WWI Imperial marks for military acceptance. The Crown N proof under the barrel is usually seen on 1920 Commercial Alphabet guns.
You never did mention what the toggle markings and receiver ring markings were. |
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Posted: 3/24/2019 7:36:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By P08:
I believe the proof below the take down lever is a East German mark. The Crown U is mostly found on pre WWI commercial guns, not sure of the stamp in front of it, but probably another post WWII stamp. The fractur proofs on the right side are WWI Imperial marks for military acceptance. The Crown N proof under the barrel is usually seen on 1920 Commercial Alphabet guns. You never did mention what the toggle markings and receiver ring markings were. Toggle marking is DWM in script, with another crown N lightly stamped just above that (above meaning toward the muzzle end of the pistol). Receiver ring is stamped 1914. I believe it was probably re-barreled as the barrel finish doesn't quite seem to match the rest of the gun, it's slightly "glossier". I've read that a re-barrel was typical for the VOPO guns so that would line up if this is one. Whatever its service life, it's seen a lot of history....WWI military service, possibly WWII, captured or otherwise taken in by the Russians and then issued in East Germany? |
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Posted: 3/24/2019 8:13:44 PM EDT
[#7]
I can remember looking at boxes of these years ago and bypassing them. ( Facepalm)
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Posted: 3/24/2019 8:46:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sajer:
I can remember looking at boxes of these years ago and bypassing them. ( Facepalm) |
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Posted: 4/14/2019 7:56:44 PM EDT
[#9]
@P08
Guys over at the Lugerforum gave me a little more info. Said the eagle/crown/U is definitely an East German proof mark and the little round symbol near the takedown lever appeared to be a VOPO "sunburst" that had been defaced. So that's good to know, looks like it's probably a VOPO gun after all. Breechbolt may be Erfurt manufacture based on the eagle stamped on it. Still obviously a parts gun, upper is 1914, but I wish I knew when the lower was made based on S/N. Here's my Lugerforum post on the pistol: http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=39506 |
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Posted: 4/14/2019 8:56:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Most VOPO guns were a hodgepodge of parts from different guns. Most are not matched or forced matched, it really does not affect the value though. As for the frame most were not marked with many proofs. It is anyone's guess?
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Posted: 4/16/2019 1:17:37 AM EDT
[#11]
Yeah, I wish it had unit markings or something so it would help me nail down a little more of its history. But it's cool as it is, and obviously has seen a lot of use in different time periods, even if it spent most of its time in a holster. I bought it to have a good shootable Luger in 9mm, so I wasn't expecting a collector grade piece anyway.
I may not be able to know much about it as Ian's "Well Travelled Luger", but it's a cool old pistol, just the same. It's amazing to me how much firearms technology progressed from the late 1800s to the early 1900s. When I was a kid in the 80s if you thought of a "100 year old gun" it was nearly always something like a Colt Single Action Army. Now a 100 year old gun could be a M1911, a Luger, or any number of things. https://www.forgottenweapons.com/a-well-travelled-luger/ |
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Posted: 7/21/2019 7:23:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Andyd]
[#12]
The VOPO acceptance mark is the little sunburst under the take down lever, the barrel is an East German replacement that was manufactured in the former Czechoslovakia by the same company that had made the barrels for the Spreewerke P.38.
The guns were refinished in East Germany periodically and were not only used by Volkspolizei but also by the Betriebskampfgruppen, the worker's brigades and the technical universities and some P.08s were in use there until the fall of the wall. My good friend Peter Dietrich was trained to shoot handguns in the Gesellschaft fuer Sport und Technik in the GDR in the 1970s with one of those P08 pistols. East Germany produced a Walther PP copy as the model 1001 and had even manufactured a few complete P.08s and many new parts in the 1950s that are very sought after collectibles and can be identified easily by the differently shaped take down lever. Many VOPO Lugers had matching numbers, not force matched, but all were dipped and all were maintenanced by trained EG personnel from the former Haenel factory, or Wehrmacht Waffenmeister, so that the force matching was done by qualified gun smiths. |
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Posted: 7/21/2019 7:32:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grendel_J:
... I've read that a re-barrel was typical for the VOPO guns so that would line up if this is one. .... |
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