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Posted: 7/19/2019 4:32:23 PM EDT


Test Gun: Colt Delta Elite
Barrel length: 5 inches.
Ammunition: Underwood 200 and 220gr Hard Cast
Test media: 10% Clear Ballistics Gel.
Distance: 10 feet.
Chronograph: Caldwell Ballistic Precision Chronograph G2.
Five shot velocity average: 1191, 1139fps
Gel Temperature 74 degrees

This test has to be one of the biggest pain in the ass test I have ever done. This is the third and last in the Underwood woods loads. The 10mm is probably the most recommended woods carry round for semi-auto pistols and for good reason. The 10mm is a powerful round capable of sending heavy bullets at high velocity giving deep penetration. However, as we have seen in the past test with the .45, .40 and 9mm provide a very good alternative.

With the 200gr loading, I got an average velocity of 1191fps with a high of 1200 and a low of 1183fps.


Ten yards off hand five shots 200gr

The 220gr round had a four-shot velocity (chorny problems) of 1139fps with a high of 1162fps and a low of 1108fps.


Ten yards off hand five shots 220gr



When shooting the 200gr load on paper at 10 yards I was having issues with the slide locking back with a loaded magazine. I decided to modify the slide lock to prevent this from happing. Once completing the modification, I had no more slide lock issues. I remember committing when I tested the Double Tap hard cast loading should not be necessary. However, if I wanted to shoot this type of ammo I guess it was necessary for my gun.



I also had two failures to eject with both the 200 and 220gr loadings. I have never had this happen in this gun before but I’m not convinced it was an ammo issue.



In the bare gel, the first found of the 200gr hard cast hit the gel at a velocity of 1189fps and 58.5 inches and had a recovered weight of 195.4 grains. The second round has a velocity of 1204fps and penetrated to 58 inches. The recovered weight of that bullet was 196.7 grains.



I had many issues shooting through the sheet metal. I tried three rounds and all of them curved to the left and exited the about midway through the second block.

I had similar issues with the 220gr bullets. Where the 200gr penetrated straight in the bare gel both of the 220gr bullets took a significant curve to the left also. Luckily I had shot both of them on the right side of the blocks or they wouldn’t have been recovered either.

The first shot in the bare gel had a velocity of 1146fps and penetrated to 60 inches. Recovered weight was 217.7 grains. The second round’s velocity was 1160fps and penetrated to 59.75 inches. Recovered weight was 216.6 grains.



With the 220gr shot through the sheet metal, I had very similar problems as with the 200gr loading. Three rounds were shot and only one was recovered. The one recovered bullet’s velocity was 1172fps and it penetrated to 25 inches. Recovered weight was 202.4 grains. The second round curved upward and exited the top of the block about midway through the second block. The last round curved to the left, just like the 200gr bullets, and exited about midway through the second block.

Link Posted: 7/19/2019 4:51:32 PM EDT
PENETRATION

Attachment Attached File


do the types of failures warrant a thought of excessive slide speed?
Link Posted: 7/19/2019 6:16:18 PM EDT
Interesting about the curve.
Link Posted: 7/19/2019 6:40:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FlowersForFoes:

PENETRATION

/media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/You_Dont_Say_zps10fa9a40_JPG-102.jpg

do the types of failures warrant a thought of excessive slide speed?
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The slide locking back had more to do with the bullet profile than the slide velocity. The two failures to eject is something new and I'm not sure why it happened.
Link Posted: 7/19/2019 6:41:21 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
Interesting about the curve.
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It was certainly odd. Not sure if it means anything or not.
Link Posted: 7/19/2019 7:07:20 PM EDT
Well... due to the slide lock not having any detent force on it keeping it down, at the same time as using hard cast underwood 10mm. Methinks you or physics made the slide lock jump up from recoil. I was suggesting slide speed reguarding the underwood load behind a heavy slug. Do you play with recoil spring weights? I would try it if it were me
Link Posted: 7/19/2019 7:22:42 PM EDT
When in bear country, I carry the 200 grain version in a Glock 20.  It shoots them flawlessly.  I was carrying Underwood Extreme Penetrators before getting these.  I think they would have done just fine on a bear, but I think the hard cast lead is more proven.
Link Posted: 7/20/2019 10:54:52 AM EDT
The 200 gr HC is my woods load here in CO. I pray I never need it for self defense but it’s good to know 58” of penetration is possible.
Link Posted: 7/20/2019 11:00:29 AM EDT
FMJ is just as good in spite of old time lore.  Don't have to deal with leading issues either.
Link Posted: 7/20/2019 5:32:07 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Trash_Panda:
FMJ is just as good in spite of old time lore.  Don't have to deal with leading issues either.
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You don't have to deal with leading with ops bullet or with hard cast bullets in general. Most fmj use a soft lead core and the bullets deform a lot after hitting bone.
Link Posted: 7/20/2019 5:34:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SecurityForcesmember:
The 200 gr HC is my woods load here in CO. I pray I never need it for self defense but it’s good to know 58” of penetration is possible.
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I think the penatration after steel is a good way to compare all 6 loads. Not indictive of flesh but a good baseline to compare 9mm, .40, 10, .45acp +p, 45 super.
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 6:11:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By DanW:
When in bear country, I carry the 200 grain version in a Glock 20.  It shoots them flawlessly.  I was carrying Underwood Extreme Penetrators before getting these.  I think they would have done just fine on a bear, but I think the hard cast lead is more proven.
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Have tried both Underwood 10mm loads in a Glock 40 and Gen4 G20. No issues with feeding, extraction, or ejection.
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 8:10:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:
Have tried both Underwood 10mm loads in a Glock 40 and Gen4 G20. No issues with feeding, extraction, or ejection.
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:
Originally Posted By DanW:
When in bear country, I carry the 200 grain version in a Glock 20.  It shoots them flawlessly.  I was carrying Underwood Extreme Penetrators before getting these.  I think they would have done just fine on a bear, but I think the hard cast lead is more proven.
Have tried both Underwood 10mm loads in a Glock 40 and Gen4 G20. No issues with feeding, extraction, or ejection.
I've seen a lot of reports of malfunctions from partial magazines with compromised, or one hand only shooting to make me leary.
Link Posted: 7/23/2019 11:50:14 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:
Have tried both Underwood 10mm loads in a Glock 40 and Gen4 G20. No issues with feeding, extraction, or ejection.
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:
Originally Posted By DanW:
When in bear country, I carry the 200 grain version in a Glock 20.  It shoots them flawlessly.  I was carrying Underwood Extreme Penetrators before getting these.  I think they would have done just fine on a bear, but I think the hard cast lead is more proven.
Have tried both Underwood 10mm loads in a Glock 40 and Gen4 G20. No issues with feeding, extraction, or ejection.
OEM barrel? If so, any issues stabilizing the 220s?
Link Posted: 7/24/2019 9:59:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2019 10:06:23 AM EDT by StevenH]
So the ammo did not measure up to advertised velocity claims and was not reliable in a Colt 1911. Disappointing.

I’ve had failures to feed with the Underwood 255Gn .45ACP in a springfield 1911.

I’ve had primer flowing into the firing pin hole of the breach face with Underwood 147 Gn +P XTP in a Glock 43X

I love their 180Gn 357 and 158Gn 38 though
Link Posted: 7/24/2019 10:03:04 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2019 10:07:04 AM EDT by StevenH]
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
I think the penatration after steel is a good way to compare all 6 loads. Not indictive of flesh but a good baseline to compare 9mm, .40, 10, .45acp +p, 45 super.
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Originally Posted By 03RN:
Originally Posted By SecurityForcesmember:
The 200 gr HC is my woods load here in CO. I pray I never need it for self defense but it’s good to know 58” of penetration is possible.
I think the penatration after steel is a good way to compare all 6 loads. Not indictive of flesh but a good baseline to compare 9mm, .40, 10, .45acp +p, 45 super.
Bare gel is an established method of comparing penetration. Dangerous animals do not have steel armor and bone is not particularly tough. Skin, due to its elastic nature, stops more bullets from fully penetrating the off side of a man or beast than bones do. That’s why we so often recover bullets just under the off side skin or hide.
Link Posted: 7/24/2019 10:48:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2019 10:49:14 AM EDT by 03RN]
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Originally Posted By StevenH:
Bare gel is an established method of comparing penetration. Dangerous animals do not have steel armor and bone is not particularly tough. Skin, due to its elastic nature, stops more bullets from fully penetrating the off side of a man or beast than bones do. That’s why we so often recover bullets just under the off side skin or hide.
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Originally Posted By StevenH:
Originally Posted By 03RN:
Originally Posted By SecurityForcesmember:
The 200 gr HC is my woods load here in CO. I pray I never need it for self defense but it’s good to know 58” of penetration is possible.
I think the penatration after steel is a good way to compare all 6 loads. Not indictive of flesh but a good baseline to compare 9mm, .40, 10, .45acp +p, 45 super.
Bare gel is an established method of comparing penetration. Dangerous animals do not have steel armor and bone is not particularly tough. Skin, due to its elastic nature, stops more bullets from fully penetrating the off side of a man or beast than bones do. That’s why we so often recover bullets just under the off side skin or hide.
Yes, bare organic gel is an established method of testing expansion under perfect conditions but a bullet that does well in bare organic gel may not perform well through barriers. Testing after a barrier will show worst case scenarios and a way to compare bullets you want to perform in worst case scenarios.

I disagree on bone not being tough. Especially in bears. Doc has stated that performance in organic gel after auto glass is very similar to the performance in people after bone is struck.

Unfortunately auto glass is much harder to test with.
Link Posted: 8/1/2019 6:01:11 PM EDT
OP what is the link to your webpage?
Link Posted: 8/1/2019 7:09:31 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By StevenH:
OP what is the link to your webpage?
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https://generalcartridge.wordpress.com
Link Posted: 8/3/2019 9:08:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/3/2019 9:10:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/4/2019 9:54:09 AM EDT
You can see in this picture that the round has moved forward in the magazine and the bullet hit the slide stop. Modifying the SS fix the issue.

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