1993 Practical passed.

My IDF HP is a good example of an extreme concern with the 'click'.

I had never heard of the 'click test' before this, and while trying to locate the source of some trigger creep, I experienced the following...

Step 1) Unload and clear
Step 2) Insert magazine with snap-caps
Step 3) Rack slide
Step 4) Safety on
Step 5) Apply pressure to trigger
Step 6) Release safety

hammer drop !!

The feeling in the pit of your stomach, when a gun unexpectedly does something like that, is not pleasant.
I nearly had to add step 7) Find new pants.

I had never run into the problem before, because I had never bothered to use the safety before.
The only time I had loaded live rounds into it, was at the range, when the rounds were going to be immediately exiting.

Yeah, your sear hammer engagement is no good.  I'm glad I'm not alone but mine doesn't drop.  It sometimes wont allow me to put ON the safety though.  

IMHO, it's very annoying.  I love the size and feel of the HiPower, but this has really got me in the dumps about it.  It's just been sitting there because I don't really want to spend the money on it.  I suppose I should try to buy my own sear and hammer set and install it.  But they all say they might need some stoning. So.....  I'm no expert.

Just picked-up my Aim Surplus, X-Grade, $209.98 (free shipping), FEG Hi-Power, at my LGS.  I was surprised that it PASSED the "Click" Test.

Actually, I'm quite surprised at what $210.00 +$20 FFL Transfer Fee, got me.  This pistol is DIRTY, DIRTY, DIRTY, did I say it was DIRTY yet?

I have decided that it needs to be refinished in a Matte Black finish, and a set of VZ  G10 Grips, and some new internal parts.  And maybe a set of Novak Sights.

While I was at my LGS, picking up the FEG, I also was looking thru their "Used" Mag Magazine's, and found a couple parkerized mag's, got two for $20 ea.

One of them has an aluminum Follower, when all the other mag's have plastic followers.


I have always wanted a Hi-Power, just never had the Hi-Power cash.  When I saw the $209.98 price at Aim Surplus, I called right away.  The guy told me that they only had 3 left,

and probably wouldn't last another hour, well that did it for me.  I don't know why they are listed as X-Grade,  I would say the one I got is more like 75% Finish, Very DIRTY, but

seems to be Mechanically Sound.  All-in-All, for the total of $270. that I have invested so far with the Pistol, Mag's, & Transfer Fee's, I'm very, very satisfied.

It's not a Browning, or an FN, but, at least all the parts will work in this FEG Hi-Power

That has never been an issue with any legal case, this is an old wives tale that will just not die.

Vince

I do not think this is correct, safety on or off does not matter. With hammer back place thumb on hammer spur and move back. If you hear a fain click you have a sear problem.

Vince

I think it does matter.  I'm not sure exactly how because I know the main point is to find out if your hammer / sear engagement is proper.  But the safety I believe contacts the sear and it's good to see how well it is fitted.  It may contribute to the problem if it's not fitted properly either.

When I tried it on my well used MKIII I got the same result safety on or off....it failed. I ordered all the parts to completely rebuild the lower of my MKIII from Numrich. Now my MKII passes the click test.

Vince

Yeah, I can see a can fail if you do or don't apply the safety.  BUT, the reason for pulling the trigger with the safety on is to see if the safety fit is proper with the sear.  If your safety allow your sear to move after pressing the trigger, then it could put the sear / hammer engagement in an unsafe position.  And on the older guns that's even more important because if the hammer drops without pulling the trigger, it can fire.  The MkIII's and some of the MkII's, have a FPS.  Older ones don't.  But even on those guns you don't want your hammer to fall without pressing the trigger of course.

Let us know how it goes with the parts.  I did everything I could, just short of what you're doing.   Because I've heard you have to maybe stone the sear / hammer to properly fit together.  But I think you can get lucky and it might work without any tweaking.   Other reason I never did this is because taking that hammer spring and rod out seems daunting to me.  I've taken everything else apart BUT that.  LOL.

I did just find a local guy that says he has worked on HiPowers plenty and I'm taking mine to him to see if he can square mine away.  I'm kind of excited because I love that pistol.  It just shoots and feels so right.  It's a great size for carrying too.

Just returned from the range and everything is all good. My well used MKIII performs like new.

Vince

dropped mine off at a gunsmith today that seemed to know what he was doing.  Getting the ambi safety made to be one sided too.  I hope it all comes out well and he can fix the sear engagement to be proper.  I love that gun.

A new-to-me 1993 Practical failed. Previous owner had removed the magazine disconnect, and the trigger pin moved with minimal trouble, so he had been in the guts.

It failed the click test, but I thought to myself "Well, how bad could it really be?" So I experimented ( no ammo, of course!). I cocked the hammer, put the safety on, pulled the trigger (such a faint click! How serious could it be?), took the safety off, then pressed the HAMMER forward. I then discovered that my High Power had a firing pin block.  I discovered this because the hammer slipped off the sear completely, and slammed forward. Shorts were changed, and new parts ordered.

Do not underestimate the seriousness of this simple test. I almost did.

Ugh.  That's pretty bad.

I received the parts to repair my '94 Practical (earlier I said '93). Brand new hammer and sear from C&S. Parts are in, and I did an okay job fitting them.  Safety engages, no creep.

The problem is that, now, the safety does no engage when the slide is back (in the takedown position). How worried should I be?  Would it be easier to work the sear or safety at this point? Advice?

So you can't engage the safety when the slide is all the way back and you want to slide the safety up in to the notch that allows you to keep the slide in place while you pull the slides stop out. Right?   I guess maybe the hammer isn't fully engaged at that point???

I am actually thinking the slide pushes the hammer back, past what is at when at full-cock. This allows the sear to move further into engagement than when simply cocked.

I think I need to file the seat more to allow the movement of the safety, but not so much that it fails the click test again.

Could be.  You're getting into an area that I wouldn't know how to fix.  But you might be right about what happens.  Because I know if I pull my hammer all the way where there is no movement to the rear, the safety won't engage.  But it's fine when I'm breaking it down.

For models with a magazine disconnect, should the empty mag be in or out when doing this test?

Or does it matter?

As the OP, if anybody is saved a new knee (or worse) or even intense embarrassment, than the time to type it out is well worth it.

I agree.  same way I did it. I lost count of the number of times I disassembled the frame, two swipes of the sear, re-assemble the frame, test; repeat.

Bought an Israeli one from Coles almost 2 years ago. Checked it when I bought it and it was fine. Gun was gritty and dirty, but I cleaned it and it passed. Took the mag release out, replaced the recoil spring and went on about my business. Took it to the range a few times. Had the trigger overtravel stop break on me two trips ago. Replaced the trigger with a vintage used one and took it back to the range. Another 50 rounds of perfect function, came back and gave it a really good cleaning ( I was still getting some grit in the safety).

Now that the safety mech is now clean, it fails the click test. :sigh:

Guess it's time to take it out of the rotation and order some parts.

I measured:  Browning #3 is my gun, the others belong to friends.  0.004" click movement is nearly imperceptible without measuring tools.

A: From the top of the hammer notch to the top of the sear when fully cocked and engaged.
B: From the top of the hammer notch to the top of the sear after the trigger was pulled with the safety on.
The difference between these measurements is how far the sear moves.

C: From the top of the sear to the top of the hammer notch with the sear released.  This plus the first measurement gives the total travel required for the gun to fire.

The difference in click movement and sear release in () is how much travel remains once you've pulled the trigger with the safety on.

Browning #1:                      A: 0.014"; B: 0.003"; C: 0.034".  0.011" click movement, 0.048" to release (0.034").
Browning #2:                      A: 0.016"; B: 0.004"; C: 0.039".  0.012" click movement, 0.055" to release (0.043").
Browning #3 (Old Sear / Old Safety):  A: 0.014"; B: -0.006"; C: 0.031".  0.020" click movement, 0.045" to release (0.025").
Browning #3 (New Sear / Old Safety):  A: 0.013"; B: -0.010"; C: 0.038".  0.023" click movement, 0.051" to release (0.028").
Browning #3 (Old Sear / New Safety):  A: 0.014"; B: 0.014"; C: 0.031".  0.000" click movement, 0.045" to release (0.045").
Browning #3 (New Sear / New Safety):  A: 0.013"; B: 0.009"; C: 0.046".  0.004" click movement, 0.059" to release (0.055").
FÉG #1:                              A: 0.011"; B: -0.003"; C: 0.033".  0.014" click movement, 0.044" to release (0.030").
FÉG #1: (w/ C&S Safety)  A: 0.017"; B: 0.013"; C: 0.028".  0.004" click movement, 0.045" to release (0.041").
FÉG #2:                              A: 0.019"; B: 0.013"; C: 0.040".  0.006" click movement, 0.059" to release (0.053").

I just picked up a kareen and it fails the click test plus i can wriggle the hammer and it drops to the half cock.

I have a CS extended safety coming and more reason to get the ring hammer and sear kit but...

I'm not overly concerned that a single action handgun will maybe fire with the safety off if dropped. I am not trying to downplay the flaw but this is was most prevalent combat handgun in the world.

The way i see it is that the issue only becomes an issue when you violate the 4 rules or you are in a combat situation.

Gun drawn. Pull trigger. Push down on safety. Pull trigger again. Bang. There has to be some crazy shit going on that would cause the hammer to drop and not catch the half cock. Remember that in this scenario if the hammer moves back at all out catches on the sear and this is all moot.

My take away is that for this issue to happen and discharge a round unintentionally it might be the one time it has ever happened I the hundreds of thousands of times the high power had been used in anger.

I am sure I have done the test before when I rebuilt my Mk III from thr ground up....but my OCD kicked in when I read this thread.

Solid pass.

Well, brand new (old stock) Charles Daly Hi Power, that I paid entirely too much for, failed the click test, and sometimes drops the hammer to half cock if the slide is let forward with the slide stop, and the safety sometimes won’t engage without the slide being reracked.  It’s a Dan Wesson finished one, if that means anything, vs Magnum Research.

Gonna order C&S parts (maybe some BH Springs stuff, too) and replace so many things in my garage that those 1911 Forum gunsmiths would pee on themselves if they saw what I was doing.  I currently like the single sided safety lever, do I need to replace it to, if I’m doing the sear, etc?

Mine failed the test.  First time hammer dropped to half-cock when the safety was disengaged.  Then it dropped to half cock with the safety still engaged.  Doing it one more time, the hammer dropped all the way with the safety engaged.

Looking at the hammer and sear with the slide removed, the part of the hammer that engages the sear is slightly higher than the sear surface.  When I push down where the lever engages the sear while the safety is on, it's upper surface becomes higher than that of the hammer and there is an audible click.  If I take the safety off at this point it will usually drop to half cock.  Occasionally I get a drop to half cock or, once, all the way, with the lever still engaged.  The hammer seems less likely to drop with the slide removed.

Would I be correct in understanding that the fix is to replace the sear?  Can this be done by an individual without fitting, or is a gunsmith required here?  Any other parts need replacement?  Would I be correct to presume that a factory Browning/FN part or a C&S part would work as a suitable replacement?

If the sears are drop-in and not fitted parts, are there any instructions on how to do the work myself?  What tools might I need?

Any fitting of a new sear or other parts, or modification of the existing sear, is beyond my abilities at present.

This is my carry and defensive handgun, so I need to get this fixed ASAP.

Mine is an Israeli surplus Classic model made in 1980.

The hammer, sear and safety are all fitted parts.

The amount of fitting is usually quite small since the parts are made very close to final shape.  Sometimes no fitting at all!

There's a lot of gently stoning surfaces, reassembling, testing, disassembling, repeat.  Simple, but tedious.

If you're feeling brave, there's a field service manual pdf out there that tells you how to fit them.

If you're not feeling brave or confident, hire the gunsmith.

I guess I'll have to do that once I can afford it (the sights are getting replaced, but I don't think I can afford to add this on and don't have a sear on hand).

I may just have the gunsmith I'm using for the sights polish the hammer and sear engagement surfaces and anything else in the trigger linkage that should be polish to eliminate creep, and replace the mainspring with a 28-lb. one (which I believe was standard until the 1970s; mine has the 32-lb. spring used since).

I've read that it is unwise to use the C&S hardened sear with the standard hammer (which I'd retain) due to the difference in hardness?  Is this so?  If that's the case, I'll go with an FN replacement part, which is less expensive, in any case (unless you get one of their "competition" sears, although I'm not sure what benefit there actually is to those).

While he said he needed to do a more thorough inspection, at a glance, when I dropped the pistol off for sight work, he said that he thinks the safety might be the issue and not the sear.

ETA:  IIRC, he said that the issue might be that the part of the safety that blocks movement of the sear may be worn down, in which case it can be built up by welding and then adjusted to fit in the gun.  He felt more strongly that this could be the case while trying to push forward on the hammer and detecting no movement.

noted

So, I just finished installing a new Cylinder and Slide sear in my old P35

The old sear would popup at least 3/4 of the sear surface when the trigger was pulled with the safety on. Scary!

The new C&S sear dropped right in but still pops up somewhat less than 1/6 of engagement surface. Not optimal, but still vastly better than before.

I suppose I should look into a new safety to maybe take up the rest of the play, and probably will do so.

I will note that even with the old sear i couldn't get the hammer to drop without actually pulling the trigger and the new sear, well it's not gonna drop the hammer either.

I will return the gun to service as it is. It's much safer than it was before and I'll see if there is a safety that's not overlarge available.

I generally don't pull the trigger with the safety on anyway, but shit can happen.

I'm going to give this a meaningless bump, just in celebration of the the only thread I ever had that was tacked.

When I saw you posted I was curious if you got a new gun or something and were telling us it passed or failed.   Got me all excited for you.  LOL.

Alas, I am down to one BHP from two and a clone.  This Novaks-tuned BHP is a wonderful pistol and one that I will never part with.  And to return to the subject at hand, it passed the click test.

She's a beauty.  I gotta go shoot mine.....    Good shooting.

Just saw this thread (I've been real busy since 2012). My Mk II BHP clicks :(
Now to see about fixing it. Hopefully the next 8 years be as busy...