Shot a M18 yesterday. I honestly liked it better than the other P320 commercial offerings I’ve tried mainly because of the thumb safety and the compact grip.

I am a Glock and 1911 guy to the core. I also own two P30s and a VP9 because I like H&K (and the P30 shoots suppressed very well).

Me owning a M18 variant would strictly be for a reference pistol to what the military is using. I might put an Acro on it and Trijicon HD sights, but that’s it. Even thought about a Wilson grip module. Maybe a Grayguns trigger if I really like it? So is it worth investing in the platform? Frankly, I prefer the lower center of mass of my Glocks to the Sig. I also trust Glock more than the US based Sig (I still feel the older West German guns are better made than current P226s from what I’ve seen).

Any issues with the M18s on the commercial market? I read the Marine’s thread about the take down lever O-rings falling out and issues with the rear sights coming loose. Any issues with rust on parts?

Thanks

I just went down the same hole.....Glad I did. Wont be selling any Glocks or M&Ps but am happy to have the Sig.

I vote go for it!

I thought they have a full sized grip

They do.

Sorry my bad. I forgot this was like a Glock 19x/45.

Regardless, I found a few vendors that sell black M18s (thumb safety and all). I'll play around with the Sig website as well and think about it some more. I have some other projects I'm working on right now (just bought another AR-10, Al framed commander 1911 etc).

More opinions? I am not thrilled about Sig's track record and what I've been reading from troops using them. Makes me appreciate my Glocks. Thanks

To be fair, the difference in height between the fullsize and compact is just the thickness of the magazine baseplate.

I bought a commercial M17 for the same reason - to have an example of the Army’s new pistol (I’ll retire before I’m ever issued one) and to have an example of the P320 platform. I’ve really enjoyed shooting it and am also planning to buy a black M18 when the budget allows. I still trust and like Glocks, but I like the M17 a lot too.

Yes, the manual safety works nicely if you are used to 1911s.

Doesn't adding an optic, slide, frame, and trigger defeat the purpose of having a M18 as a "reference"? At that point you've got a completely different gun.

SIG already has a military "upgrade kit" for the M18; changes to the X-series frame and trigger. So I guess if you select those components it still counts.

Our deadline/failure rate at our first qual with M18’s was 13%. That’s 13% with function issues that prevented firers from completing the course of fire due to consistent malfunctions.  Several others came from the factory shooting waaaaay low. Like 2’ at 15m…consistent groups across several experienced shooters. My inclination is that the Army will be replacing these steaming piles of shit within a decade. I want my M11 and it’s shitty trigger back.

That is absolutely terrible. They must be outsourcing parts to manufacture the military pistols. I can't wait to see how the MCX Spear will go down if they choose to do the same, especially if they are running hot 82k PSI ammo in these rifles.

I shot a M18 side by side with a Gen 5 Glock 19 today. I see no advantage over the Glock. Reading crap like this, along with the Marine's post in the other thread, makes me forget about Sig USA. I was scarred when they came out with their abortion version of a 55x series rifle for us civilians. I never forgave them for that, along with their crap attempt at a 553P essentially (7.62x39 Sig rifle). Thank heaven for JDI imports for now at least.

Sorry I’m calling BS on this.


Cp

Are you military and qualifying with the M18?
If not, I see no reason to have it for reference. The grip angle is approximately the same as your 1911 and the trigger should be somewhere between your Glock and your 1911. If you can shoot these two fine guns you can shoot the M18.

Now if you want one “just because” or maybe as a collector that you intend to shoot, then yes I would get one one. In any case it’s your money brother, but I can assure you, you won’t feel like it was wasted money.
Cp

I’m tickled you’re calling BS. I’ve procured nearly 1K of these pistols and controlled the qualification process for 3 installations.

What he said is not only true, it’s the rule. Things I’ve seen mostly revolve around Sig installing the wrong height sights and the optic plates not being torqued properly. The issue is so prevalent the DoD released a PowerPoint for units switching to the M18 with lessons learned.

For qual’ing every 20 shooters my instructors would need to bring 30 guns. Within the first week I had my folks tearing down the guns fresh out of the box to loctite and torque the plates or the firing process would take forever. The sight issue hasn’t been resolved yet, my issued M18 shoots quite low, my privately owned M17 and M18 each shoot POA/POI.

The gun isn’t garbage, the QC from Sig is. The corners they cut to get the guns out the door is unacceptable and required a lot of personal time from troops to get these things ready for duty.

I’m glad you’re  tickled and I would love to have a conversation offline in PMs about the issues you guys are having.

Unfortunately, you completely misread or didn’t fully read his or my posts because what you are talking about is QC issues and the rear sight/ plate. I was specifically raising the BS flag to his comment:
“Our deadline/failure rate at our first qual with M18’s was 13%. That’s 13% with function issues that prevented firers from completing the course of fire due to consistent malfunctions”.

He is talking about malfunctions not QC issues Brother. We could have a separate conversation about QC issues which ALL seem to be centered around the rear sight/plate coming lose. Have you seen other QC issues? We haven’t.

Now, we have discovered a couple possibilities on this.
1. Could be Sig QC no doubt ……or
2. Could be at the depot. I don’t know what branch you are in but I know in the Army Sig does not ship directly to the Units receiving the M17s or 18s. They are received at one of the various depots for distribution into the supply chain. What we have learned (but not confirmed) is that when our Armorers receive them, part of their QC is to break them completely down and inspect them, in some cases we have learned that they do not always apply new locktite to the threads and may or may not be torquing them to spec. “Just snugging” them up and reassembling them.

So that’s my $.02, I’m not trying to get in a pissing contest here, but we have never seen a 13% failure rate due to malfunctions except on a rage where we had a bad lot of M1152 9mm ammo in late 2020.
BTW if you are taking 30 guns to qualify 20 people just to get through? You may want to consider having an Armor on site. My guys, any of us, can break that gun down and torque the sight and plate down in like 2 minutes and get it back on line, it’s not that big of a deal. It takes less time than to completely, properly, lube an M4 because some dumb ass Supply SGT. “Requires” that soldiers turn in their M4s clean and dry………..Joe and his dumb ass misperceptions.
Cp

If that's what actually is happening... The government screwing something up, and then that being blamed on the private sector is the most government thing ever

Well, I bought one today. Now I can’t find the dang safety delete pin in stock anywhere.

Attached File

Attached File

Cp

This started as an M17.

No I am not military nor am I qualifying with it. It's more to know what the gun is about and learn about it. The P320 series has taken off to the stratosphere in terms of use and accessories, more than the Beretta M9, Sig P226/228/229, HK USP or the HK VP9 ever did. There are nuances to the P320 that don't exist with 1911s and Glocks, like any other pistol. It's more of a reference and a learning process I guess.

You are correct. Side by side I can shoot the M18 close to my Glocks.

Someone else asked why I want to pimp it up? Well, my eyes aren't getting better as I age, and I think a tango down Acro plate with an Aimpoint Acro might make the gun more useful for me. The more vertical grip sets itself up well for use with a red dot.

Again, I hesitate because of the QC crap Sig pulls.

I just picked one up last week as posted above. I bought it because I was in the Corps once upon a time. IMO the only negative to this pistol is the safety. It’s dumb and it’s obtrusive as well as having no place on a modern striker fired handgun. A trip to the sig website and I now have a safety delete pin and a new frame on the way. I think the gun is perfectly serviceable without any fancy upgrades. Get one. I’m married to Glocks but that’s not gonna stop me from owning other guns. Contrary to popular believe you can own guns just for the sake of owning them.

LOL, yes you can own some guns to own them! lol!

I actually like the thumb safety on the M18. Makes me feel better about the gun given its history and lack of a trigger safety.

By the way, would it also be worth changing the grip module for a Wilson Combat module?

I went X Carry based off recommendations from friends with them.

I just got a WC module. I'm probably one of the few weirdos that actually likes the feel of the stock one, but it feels like a brick in comparison to the Wilson. I haven't tried the X grip, but I have a hard time imagining it could out do Wilson's.

So did this

I’m a Glock guy to the core but this M17, at least as I have it setup shoots fantastic and has been 100% reliable.  I hate to say it but I’m starting to enjoy shooting it more than my Glocks.  

The X-Series grip with tungsten insert and magwell add just enough weight to make it feel really balanced.  

This is almost exactly my plans for my m18. It’s like we share a brain on this one.

I had the the X-series module on my VTAC, but I traded into the Wilson M18.

I should add the tungsten.
Attached File

With the safety deleted this would be perfect.

I actually prefer the safety version of this gun. It feels natural to me when drawing to click the safety off. It is a very tactile click and isn’t at all mushy. It’s kinda weird to say this but the safety “feels good” on the gun. I have a few with and without the safety. It’s just right as it is.

Yes to the WC modules. Get them from Armory crafts website. Also get the weights from armory craft. Their weights are a bit longer and weigh more by a small amount.

Almost every P320 I have has the WC module.

If I was still a 45B, I would.
I bought a M92FS for reference.  Also for shooting, as I instructed our Soldiers on marksmanship.  "Here are the quirks" , so here's how to shoot better.

My other favorites to shoot are 1911s, so I prefer the safety as well.

I bought my 92FS for the same reason.

My M18 is coming together how I want it. Finally got rid of that stupid safety and added the X Carry module. Next up will be a 509t on a CHWPS plate.

Attached File

Is the military issuing the kit to remove the safety?

No. And I doubt they ever will.

I just put 250 rounds through mine. I already installed the Wilson frame and extended slide stop. I really like it. I can handle it nearly as well as my Glocks. I will need to take it out to my gun club (whenever I can actually GET TIME), shoot it from a holster and against a shot timer to know for certain what I can do with it.

Regardless, ZERO malfunction. The trigger is good. I have a Gray Guns flat faced trigger, that I will install to try out as well. The Wilson frame definitely helps with the grip.

Now I just need an Acro P2 and optics plate. This will be a project, so we'll see how it goes.

I have an M18.  I added a Red dot and swapped to a small frame.  Fits my hands better.

Added the Gray Guns flat trigger and Tango Down optics plate. I put 50 rounds through it today to function check it. Zero issues. Feels like a much nicer trigger pull.

Now I wait for a local smith to install the Tango Down irons (TruGlo) and for Acro P2s to come back in stock.

Attached File


Attached File

If you get tired of waiting for the ACROs, you could get an MPS. ACRO 2 has better battery life, but you'd probably go through a life time of batteries and still save a little money on the MPS

Does the TD plate have a rear irons dovetail?

Yes it does but you have to use their iron sights and Jeff Cahill told me via email that the sights must be hand fitted (no MGW sight pusher). I gave it to a local gunsmith to install. Yes, I am aware of the Steiner but want an optic that uses 2032 batteries.

https://tangodown.com/premium-truglo-buis-set/

https://tangodown.com/tangodown-acro-mount-for-sig-sauer-p320-models-ssm-02/

No. They Don't.

It's a Carry sized grip module. 17rd mags flush and a compact/carry length slide.

Official commercial part is 320CA-9-M18-MS
320
CArry
9mm
M18
Manual Safety

Basic sizes are Full, Carry, Compact, Subcompact
X Sizes are X5, XFull, XCarry, XCompact

If we're going to split hairs, you're talking about the grip module, while Jack_Flag and BerlinVet were clearly referring to the length of the grip. Using SIG's terminology, there is no Carry sized grip, there's a Carry grip module. Both the Full and Carry grip modules have full length grips. That's what BerlinVet was pointing out when he replied to the post that seemed to be saying that the M18 had a compact sized grip (not grip module).

Corrected. And yes, I should have stated module.

But anyone walking into a store or searching online that asked to buy a full sized "grip" would end up with a Full sized grip module (17rd grip) with the longer dust cover. If they asked for a Carry "grip" they'd end up up with a full length 17rd grip and shorter dust cover.

So yeah, it is splitting hairs. The terminology can get confusing. I was just trying to offer some clarity on what parts the gun actually uses.

The M18 ships with the following Grip module installed:
GRIP-MMS-CA-943-M-COY

If you want to go up or down in width here are the Large and Small Grip Modules:
GRIP-MMS-CA-943-L-COY
GRIP-MMS-CA-943-SM-COY