User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 12:10:55 PM EDT
This is the hottest 9mm load that I've chrono'd to date, but not by much compared to older lots of Silver and Brown Bear. I am not sure what powder they use, but it's a hefty charge at 9.5gr (I misspoke in the video at 9.8gr). I'm guessing this would be ideal in heavy bolt SMG's :D
 9x19mm, 115gr FMJ, Samson / IMI, Black Tip |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 12:20:48 PM EDT
[#1]
Uzi ammo
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 12:28:48 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uzi ammo 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 1:19:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Sure would like to see velocity & a gel test of Liberty's 50 grn out of a 16" bbl. I'd pay for the ammo if you were interested.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 1:44:35 PM EDT
[#4]
I have a PSA AR-9 with a 16" barrel and live in MI, a little North of GR.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 1:55:08 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a PSA AR-9 with a 16" barrel and live in MI, a little North of GR. That ammo won't play well with a closed-bolt, 16" bbl AR pattern gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 2:00:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That ammo won't play well with a closed-bolt, 16" bbl AR pattern gun. Which ammo, and why not? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 2:19:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which ammo, and why not? I think he means the black tip. Its borderline overpressure and designed for open bolt smg's. In a closed bolt ar pattern it'll jack up operating pressure and spike the dwell time |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 2:23:42 PM EDT
[#8]
9.8 gr of Titegroup?
 |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 2:29:17 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think he means the black tip. Its borderline overpressure and designed for closed bolt smg's. In a closed bolt ar pattern it'll jack up operating preside and spike the dwell time Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Which ammo, and why not? I think he means the black tip. Its borderline overpressure and designed for closed bolt smg's. In a closed bolt ar pattern it'll jack up operating preside and spike the dwell time Actually best in open bolt guns with the advantage of the delay imparted by API ......kind of like the L7A1 ball that's out there.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 3:16:38 PM EDT
[#10]
I am not convinced that API imparts any significant advantage. Straight blowback is about the safest operating system conceived.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 3:25:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure would like to see velocity & a gel test of Liberty's 50 grn out of a 16" bbl. I'd pay for the ammo if you were interested. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 3:30:58 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no one has tested it in gel? 16" velocity is about 2550 fps from a test I did awhile back Holy shit, sign me up. Time to get that 16" scorpion I always wanted. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 3:35:54 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That ammo won't play well with a closed-bolt, 16" bbl AR pattern gun. It will at least once.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 4:09:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: no one has tested it in gel? 16" velocity is about 2550 fps from a test I did awhile back It's been tested in gel from a handgun & came up short, 10-11" IIRC. Hence my curiosity for 16", as my EDC secondary is a SUB-2000. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 4:19:25 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been tested in gel from a handgun & came up short, 10-11" IIRC. Hence my curiosity for 16", as my EDC secondary is a SUB-2000. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 5:06:08 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I could work on making that happen sometime this summer. Let me know. Would be be happy to cover a box of ammo. Would be great to turn my SUB into a PS90. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 6:40:49 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Actually best in open bolt guns with the advantage of the delay imparted by API ......kind of like the L7A1 ball that's out there.... Thats what I meant lol. My brain combined "for open bolt guns" and "not for closed bolt guns" so I just ended up with "for closed bolt guns"
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/27/2021 10:53:08 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thats what I meant lol. My brain combined "for open bolt guns" and "not for closed bolt guns" so I just ended up with "for closed bolt guns" |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2021 10:25:15 AM EDT
[#19]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2021 12:33:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A contender arises: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/04/27/pilgrim-self-defense-ammunition/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2021 7:02:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's been tested in gel from a handgun & came up short, 10-11" IIRC. Hence my curiosity for 16", as my EDC secondary is a SUB-2000. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: no one has tested it in gel? 16" velocity is about 2550 fps from a test I did awhile back It's been tested in gel from a handgun & came up short, 10-11" IIRC. Hence my curiosity for 16", as my EDC secondary is a SUB-2000. I cant imagine it doing any better from a 16" gun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2021 9:06:02 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cant imagine it doing any better from a 16" gun. Given it's picked up an extra 500 fps, I don't see why it wouldn't. That's an additional 25% of velocity, and you're into M193 ballistics from SBRs. I'm happy to pay for the ammo to test. There are precious few gel tests of carry 9x19mm ammo from 16" bbls, which I think is an actual problem. 115 grn JHPs might well open up too fast & underpenetrate from a 16" carbine. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2021 11:28:11 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given it's picked up an extra 500 fps, I don't see why it wouldn't. That's an additional 25% of velocity, and you're into M193 ballistics from SBRs. I'm happy to pay for the ammo to test. There are precious few gel tests of carry 9x19mm ammo from 16" bbls, which I think is an actual problem. 115 grn JHPs might well open up too fast & underpenetrate from a 16" carbine. Does it actually pick up 500fps? I find that somewhat hard to imagine as light bullets with very fast powders, like liberty's load, don't see much fps increase with longer barrels. I imagine a standard JHP, 124 to 150gr like HST, ranger t, and gold dot, unless I'm wrong and the Liberty perform like a poor mans mk318, which I highly doubt. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/28/2021 11:55:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Given it's picked up an extra 500 fps, I don't see why it wouldn't. That's an additional 25% of velocity, and you're into M193 ballistics from SBRs. I'm happy to pay for the ammo to test. There are precious few gel tests of carry 9x19mm ammo from 16" bbls, which I think is an actual problem. 115 grn JHPs might well open up too fast & underpenetrate from a 16" carbine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I cant imagine it doing any better from a 16" gun. Given it's picked up an extra 500 fps, I don't see why it wouldn't. That's an additional 25% of velocity, and you're into M193 ballistics from SBRs. I'm happy to pay for the ammo to test. There are precious few gel tests of carry 9x19mm ammo from 16" bbls, which I think is an actual problem. 115 grn JHPs might well open up too fast & underpenetrate from a 16" carbine. What 9mm loads are picking up 500fps? Thats .357 level increase with magnum slower powders. I also think, assuming the liberty bullet is at least going a little faster, they will open up and slow down faster and penetrate even less. |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2021 1:38:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What 9mm loads are picking up 500fps? Thats .357 level increase with magnum slower powders. I also think, assuming the liberty bullet is at least going a little faster, they will open up and slow down faster and penetrate even less. agreed. If anything, I think the liberty will likely loose velocity out of a 16" barrel. Even standard rounds like 124 and 124gr +p gold dot gain 30-100 fps, many rounds gain even less than that from a 16" tube |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2021 9:06:11 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: agreed. If anything, I think the liberty will likely loose velocity out of a 16" barrel. Even standard rounds like 124 and 124gr +p gold dot gain 30-100 fps, many rounds gain even less than that from a 16" tube Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What 9mm loads are picking up 500fps? Thats .357 level increase with magnum slower powders. I also think, assuming the liberty bullet is at least going a little faster, they will open up and slow down faster and penetrate even less. agreed. If anything, I think the liberty will likely loose velocity out of a 16" barrel. Even standard rounds like 124 and 124gr +p gold dot gain 30-100 fps, many rounds gain even less than that from a 16" tube Uh: Quoted: no one has tested it in gel? 16" velocity is about 2550 fps from a test I did awhile back |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2021 10:06:36 AM EDT
[#27]
I've shot some of that in my RRA 16" barrel carbine. It is BY FAR the most accurate FMJ load that I have ever tried in that gun. It's equal in accuracy to Win 147 Ranger with is the most consistently accurate load in that gun.
I have no idea of the velocity since I dont have a chrono but it "feels" nice and smooth and runs perfectly well. This RRA carbine is a Colt pattern gun. If I could get my hands on more of that IMI ammo I'd run it exclusively. My IMI 115gr FMJ Carnine ammo came in the box that is made to look like a little wooden crate, from the late 80's early 90's I believe. The bullets have a black painted tip like in the OP and the cases are stamped "9mm Carbine". |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/29/2021 10:13:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh: Well I stand corrected. Gel results would be interesting, especially to compare it to say mk318 out of a super short barrel. Liberty has a 16" gel test on their YouTube, but its only one shot into bare clearballistics gel, and they don't give penetration measurements or velocity |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 8:50:57 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uh: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: What 9mm loads are picking up 500fps? Thats .357 level increase with magnum slower powders. I also think, assuming the liberty bullet is at least going a little faster, they will open up and slow down faster and penetrate even less. agreed. If anything, I think the liberty will likely loose velocity out of a 16" barrel. Even standard rounds like 124 and 124gr +p gold dot gain 30-100 fps, many rounds gain even less than that from a 16" tube Uh: Quoted: no one has tested it in gel? 16" velocity is about 2550 fps from a test I did awhile back @Buffman_LT1 I looked the other day but couldn't find it. Do you have it up? |
|
|
|
Posted: 4/30/2021 9:15:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Buffman_LT1 I looked the other day but couldn't find it. Do you have it up?  Stopping Ultra Fast 9mm Rounds? Veteran's MFG Ultralight IIIA+ |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/2/2021 11:04:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: This is the hottest 9mm load that I've chrono'd to date, but not by much compared to older lots of Silver and Brown Bear. I am not sure what powder they use, but it's a hefty charge at 9.5gr (I misspoke in the video at 9.8gr). I'm guessing this would be ideal in heavy bolt SMG's :D That's not all that fast. The large charge weight probably just means they used a slower powder. The advantage here is that it might produce less pressure for the same velocity than a faster powder would produce. In fact, that load might be within the pressure limit for non-plus P ammo, i.e. it might not exceed 35,000 psi. You might find this article of interest. Picking the right powder can produce very high velocity and still remain within normal operating pressure limits. fast 9mm handloads |
|
|
|
Posted: 5/7/2021 11:58:21 PM EDT
[#32]
I agree. To give some hard numbers, at least back in the 90s, Cor-Bon's 115gr 9mm +P load, the one with the old Sierra JHP, would usually do 1350 or more out of most full-sized service pistol barrels. This may have been before there was any kind of official SAAMI spec for 9mm +P. I can't find information online as to when that was standardized.
I have heard that reloading manuals from the 1970s had equally heavy loads using stout charges of Herco, far in excess of anything in any loading manual that's been printed since then, but I do not have any specifics. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
