What kind of accuracy expectations can I expect from regular production revolvers?

The other 629 thread reminded me that I have been lusting after a 6.5" 629 for a few years now, so it might be time to get that done. Primary use will be for deer hunting and Dirty Harry cosplay.

How reasonable would it be to take a deer at 100 yards off a rest? I still live in a shotgun only area, and the shotgun thing is getting kind of old.

I shot metallic silhouette handgun back in the early 80s... pigs IIRC were about 2' long x 1' tall at 100m..center body hits with my 10.5" Super Blackhawk .44mag (single action)  with fixed sights, standing, were not that difficult... hard cast hand loads with pretty heftyl H110 charge

100 yards is longer than I would take a shot at a deer with a handgun.  Not saying you shouldn't.  But know your limitations.

For sure, and there will definitely be load development, testing, shooting shooting shooting etc prior to taking a 100 yard shot at a deer. I'm just curious to know what my expectations are. I mentioned using a rest specifically. I've done some reading and it seems that a lot of guys limit themselves to 50 yards for offhand shots. I totally get that. But i specifically want to handgun hunt to increase my range over archery equipment and not have to drag my heavy and hard recoiling shotgun all over the place.

All that said, I do kind of wonder if a 460 X frame wouldn't be a better option. Ballistically its supposed to be ideal out to 200 yards. But then again I'm still not clear on what kind of accuracy expectation there is on that or if an x frame right out  of the box would even be capable of holding a tight enough group to shoot deer at 200.

The 460 is harsh.  More so than the 500, at least in my book.

Most any revolver will be able to shoot better than you can.
The shorter sight radius compared to a rifle and not being able to brace it against your shoulder like you can a rifle means it is just not as steady and you are the weak link in accuracy, not the gun. That's why they used Ransom Rests to determine how accurate revolvers and pistols are, and most production revolvers will shoot 2 inch groups at 25 yards. Freedom Arms revolvers are usually capable of bettering that at 100 yards.

I was able to put rounds on an 8.5x11 piece of paper at 100 yards with a GP 100, iron sights. My first month shooting.

I would imagine with a small scope or red dot and working from a rest (or braced?) you could put a round in vitals out to a better than archery distance.

Heck I can do that same group now, after many years of shooting, with a 3" 9mm wearing a red dot.

When I was strictly using 44 mag handguns for deer hunting I hand loaded and practiced a lot.
I have a scoped 8 3/8” 629 that off a rest can put 6 in a Skoal can at 100 yards. The longest shot I ever took on a deer with that particular gun was 85 yards. Near max charge of H110 and a 240 XTP did everything it was supposed to and was a 1 shot affair with the deer going about 25 yards.
This was of course off a good rest at a feeding deer.  
The thing about a handgun for hunting is you have to practice. My main benefit at the time was I also had a scoped 6 inch 617, a 22 Smith, that was very similar to the 629. Practicing field shots with this was a ton of fun and very helpful.

One of the local public ranges has  the top couple feet of an 8” diameter welding tank on a post 110 yards down range on each end of the butts as pistol and rimfire targets, every now and then a rim fire rifle shooter will start thinking he’s pretty hot hitting it shot after shot off hand with a rifle.  When I see that air take pity and ensure his hat will still fit and start shooting and consistently hitting that same target with a 6” Model 19 or Model 14.

The keys to long range accuracy are precise sight alignment, a good grip that lets you complete the trigger pull without disturbing the sights, and good trigger control that allows you to add pressure when the sight picture is good and hold it when it’s bad.  In short, the basics.

Start practicing with an 8” plate at 25 yards then extend the range it to 50 yards one you are consistently hitting center of plate and then move it back to 100 yards when you are making consistent center of plate hits at 50 yards.  Once you can hit the plate first shot, cold bore and then the next 11 shots in a row, in a 4” diameter group, you’re probably ready to start hunting.  That’s a bit conservative but those 4” groups on the range will be 8” groups in the field with a deer in your sights.

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Caliber wise, a .357 Mag 158 gr JSP will have about 1240 fps from a 6” barrel with about 540 ft pounds at the muzzle. It will be down around 1050 fps and 385 ft pounds at 100 yards but it will still penetrate well.  

Trajectory wise, if you zero the above .357 at 100 yards it’ll be 2.4” high at 25 yds, 3.6” high at 50 yards, 2.8” high at 75 yards, and 5” low at 125 yards.   Consequently you can shoot dead on at 0-100 yds and have some room for range estimation errors.

100 yards is doable range for deer in terms of terminal ballistics, but shot placement is important and the limiting factor is the accuracy of the shooter.  

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It’s tempting to up gun to a larger caliber and the .460 and .500 are tempting.  However, very few shooters can shoot them well, in part because they can be brutal to shoot more than a few shots in a row before shooters start flinching, and in part because ammo is expensive.

The .44 magnum is better but still a lot for many shooters.   The .44 Mag 240 gr bullet has about 1270 fps in a 6” barrel and starts with about 860 ft pounds.  It has an almost identical trajectory compared to the 158 gr .357 and arrives at 100 yards with about 1050 fps, but with about 575 ft pounds.   But that extra accuracy won’t do any good if you can place the first shot accurately.

The .41 Mag was designed with hunting in mind and with a 6” barrel will give about 1250 fps with a 180 gr bullet, again producing pretty much the same trajectory as the .357 magnum with 615 ft pounds at the muzzle and about 1025 fps and 419 ft pounds at 100 yards.  It splits the difference between the .44 Mag and .357 Mag recoil wise, but the energy and velocity numbers at 100 yards are not that much better.

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Given what you’ve stated - wanting more range than archery, but without the weight of a rifle, you might want to consider a lever action carbine in .357 magnum.  A Rossi Model 92 carbine is reasonably light balanced well and is easy to carry.  

A federal 158 gr JSP will launch from one at 1830 fps with 1178 ft pounds and will still have 1466 fps and 751 ft pounds at 100 yards.

I zero mine at 135 yards with an intended max range of 150 yards (1312 ft pounds and 601 ft pounds at 150 yards).  The max mid range trajectory is only 3.7” at 75 yards with 3” high at 100 yards, and 2” low at 150 yards.

Factory 158 gr. .357 Mag runs at 1240 fps from a 4" barrel.

I've recommended that to people many times when I've been asked about buying their first firearm to buy a corresponding .22 or conversion kit if it's within their budget to do so. The reason is you'll practice more and won't break the bank. I have many lines of the firearms with overlapping calibers, most with a rimfire as the base and increasing from there, some have 5 or 6 in the linage like revolvers, bolts and levers. Some are basically the same gun but produced by different manufacturers like 1911's.

Not in my 4" guns

They do in my 4" S&Ws.

Remington 158 JHP:  Model 65 = 1,254 fps.  Model 686 = 1,297 fps.

Federal 158 JSP:  Model 686 = 1,248 fps.

Handloaders can run those 158's at 1400-1500 out of a 4", if they REALLY want to.
.357 mag lives in that odd world of "what we used to shoot out of old guns and what the lawyers say we can recomend out of new guns".

Not that it matters to most modern shooters, but it's there.

Can it be done without exceeding pressure limits?

If so, what load data does that?

You have to ask "which" pressure limits?
SAAMI educed .357 max by a considerable amount I think in the 1990's ?
Supposedly spurred on by S&W to extend the life of the medium frame guns, I don't know that for a fact but it's been printed several times over the years.

There are people who happily use "old" published data that's considerably hotter than modern manuals.

I'd never type out my collection of max .357 data, but so far a number of people (many now dead) have used it and not blown up a gun, those guys were very careful when working at the outer edge and beyond. They could and did put hard wear on guns.

If we look at modern loads from Buffalo Bore, (he has a reputation of printing pretty realistic velocity numbers from his guns) I see this, from a 4" gun:

180 gr. WFN @ 1375 fps.
170 gr. JHC @ 1411 fps.
158 gr. JHP @ 1485

He says those loads are safe in any steel gun including J-frames.

I'm pretty sure you could find some heavy .357 data from Brian Pierce if you looked.
I'm just fine with using "old" loading manual loads in .357, some people aren't.  

I wouldn’t suggest shooting g at a deer with 148 HBWC, but revolvers can be very accurate. Definitely do your homework on load development or selection. Everyone looks for the best rifle load. Handguns are no different. Some loads will shoot different and you can see big POI shifts between loads.

Attached File

I am exclusively a handgun hunter and have been for over a decade. The only time I have used a rifle or shotgun is when the laws prohibit my using a pistol.
In field conditions, and with the use of a supported rest I consider 80 yards about my limit.
Unsupported 50 is where I draw the line on a deer sized target.

Here is my production 44mag SuperBlackhawk Hunter at 100 yards off of sand bags
Handloads and 1x red dot


My production 44mag 5 1/2" barrel Redhawk at 50 yards.
Handloads a Leupold DeltaPoint


I have a Magnum Research Custom Shop BFR in 500JRH with a Holosun red dot on top. I haven't shot it off the bags for group size, but at 100 yards I can ring an 8" gong with almost boring consistency....provided I hold up my end of the bargain.

Most quality production revolvers will produce this level of accuracy with quality handloads.
Once you add the shooter to the equation is when things start to go off the rails.

practice practice.....

So.... you mention this BFR in 500JRH, yet you show no picture of it
I think I need a 500JRH...

Yes, 357 Magnum when introduced in the 1930's was a 45,000 cup cartridge using 158 grain bullets going 1500 fps in the N-frame. In the 1970's the pressure was reduced to 35,000 psi as the 125 grain HP bullets were cracking the forcing cone of the k-frames.

a BFR in any caliber is a better gun than a Ruger or Smith and Wesson. I had a 500 JRH 7.5" and it was awesome. I sold mine when I stopped deer hunting. I had no trouble hitting a 8" plate at 100 yards with a 1x red dot. I think it is more than required for deer. I had a 460XVR and killed deer over 100 yards with it. It would group inside 2" at 100 from field positions.

It still is a 45,000 CUP cartridge.

SAAMI pressure standards

CUP and psi are different methods, so the numbers might not be the same with the same ammo.

The old "N-frame" ballistics were from a 8 3/4" barrel.  Ballistics are now measured in a 4" barrel.

Even if they do, that’s wimpy stuff at 100yds.

@JTMcC So that you stop whining about it

Crappy pic. I was mainly interested in getting a photo of the sight mount in that shot.

And yes, yes you do need a 500JRH.
While it certainly falls within the range of hand cannon, I find it surprisingly shootable (relatively speaking).
The recoil, by my precision calibrated wrist based "recoil-o-meter", is about 3x what my full boogie 44mags are. You certainly need to hang on but the recoil impulse is more of a very strong push as opposed to being very snappy. The shape of the BFR's bisley grip is a bit oddly shaped it does a superb job of soaking up the recoil of heavy kickers and keeps the front sight out of your forehead.

Nice.

Extremely nice. This thread is simultaneously helping and not helping. I'm still certain I need a .44 magnum, but I guess it will just depend on the work i put in once I get it before I decide if 100 yards is reasonable or not.

For more background i guess i forgot to mention, but i am hunting in a shotgun/handgun/archery zone. As much as i'd like a pistol caliber lever or any number of other rifles, i am sticking with the rules of my zone. Plus i've always wanted to carry a revolver while deer hunting anyway. I am still thinking the 629 checks a lot of my boxes.

98Redline, is the 500jrh rhat much better than the 460?

Oh, the other aspect I forgot to mention is that I am primarily hunting from a pop up blind these days and figure nearly all shots will be taken off a rest.

The 500JRH and a 460 are different animals.

Practically speaking, the 500 JRH is the largest caliber handgun you can get and still have a normal length cylinder. While the BFR frame and cylinder is beefier than a comparable Ruger single action, it is not so much so that the two guns will not share the same holsters. Ballistically it is near identical to the 500 Linebaugh or 500 Wyoming Express. It utilizes the .500 sized bullets from the 500 S&W and brass can be made from cut down 500 S&W cases. If you are shooting the 500JRH it out of a BFR, cutting down the brass is all you have to do. On a Freedom Arms the rims need to be turned down a bit due to the FA's smaller cylinder. Power and penetration wise, it has enough of both to completely pass through (in the long direction) a cape or water buffalo. The build quality of the BFR is truly impressive. Mine locks up like a bank vault with no perceptible looseness or slop at all.

The 460 is really the king of revolvers although some would argue the S&W X-Frame guns are closer to crew served weapons that should be trailered on a caison. Magnum Research also offers the BFR in this caliber but with a long cylinder and frame to accommodate the round. The 460 can deliver hits at very impressive ranges (200+ yards) but will benefit from a longer barrel a tripod/bipod, and magnified scope to take advantage of that power and flat trajectory. Now, at that kind of range, the shooter's job is significantly more difficult. What works at the range, off of sandbags, will likely not work under field conditions. With its 65,000 PSI max pressure it also has one hellacious muzzle blast. If you happen to crack a round off without your ear pro, you can be assured of non-trivial hearing damage. It is the single loudest handgun I have ever been in the presence of when it was fired. Truly impressive concussion.

Caliber aside, my preference for a hunting revolver is a a single action. I have plenty of double actions in .357, 44mag, and 480 Ruger, but the recoil impulse of a double action seems more abusive to the shooter than the same load from a single action. A single action, and more precisely a Bisley gripped version will tend to roll up at the shot vs. a much more straight back recoil with a DA revolver. At .357 power levels, that isn't that big of a deal but with a top end load out of a 44mag or larger, the whack to the web of your thumb becomes more pronounced. There is also a reason that all of the gunsmiths that make these >44 caliber hard kicking customs do so on a single action, bisley platform.

I can honestly say, one of the best hunting configurations I have used is a Ruger SuperBlackhawk Bisley Hunter in 44mag. I have had mine for close to 20 years and until the BFR showed up, it has been my constant companion when hunting. It comes with scope rings and integral mounts and the full length rib on the 7 1/2" barrel adds some muzzle weight to help tame the recoil. Granted it doesn't work terribly well for Dirty Harry cosplay, but when you are sitting at the 100 yard range with a revolver and putting up better groups than some of rifle guys it is very satisfying.

There was a thread a few years back that delved more into the 500 JRH.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Handguns/Info-on-the-500-JRH/33-189809/?page=1

with  240gr XTP's when I'm serious, I shoot 4.5-5 inch  3 shot groups open sights at 100 yards with my 629 6 inch barrel.

I routinely hit what I think is a 6 inch Gong as well.
the gun will shoot better than my eye's.

with a RDS, it would be amazing.