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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:10:20 PM EDT
[#1]
The 640 is not a pocket gun. Magnums will be unpleasant even with the extra weight. Down right painful in fact.
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:18:37 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: Are steel framed j-frames too heavy for pocket carry? Does the additional weight make 357 any more reasonable than in airweight revolvers? Define "pocket carry". Are you speaking of front pants pocket? Coat pocket? Back pants pocket? What? Except for coat pockets, yes, it's too heavy, IMO. As mentioned, recoil isn't pleasant although with good (re: longer) grips it can be manageable. My .o2 |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:18:42 PM EDT
[#3]
640 is too heavy as a pocket gun,I don't understand all the bitching about 357 mag in this platform.
340PD is light!!! pocket carries well, and quite a handful but not unpleasant at all......Unless all you're used to is the 9mm in a G19  You guys need to check the expiration dates on your "Man Card" My 5'2" #110 sammich maker carries shoots and qualified with a 340pd with magnum loads...….some of y'all need to grow a pair.  No pix available for ya wimps 
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:28:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ameshawki: The 640 is not a pocket gun. Magnums will be unpleasant even with the extra weight. Down right painful in fact. I carried one in a pocket holster for years. I have a rubber grip on it and mostly shot 38s but I have shot a few magnums and I wouldn't say they were painful. Over the years I shot several rattlesnakes with 125 grain Hornady 357 Critical Defense and at the time didn't notice the recoil. I carried it in a De Santis holster and when that wore out I bought a Remora which appears will last a lifetime. I carried it in a front pocket of my jeans. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 9:54:50 PM EDT
[#5]
640 is fine pocket gun in a nice set of tactical style shorts, slacks. Crimson trace grips makes it really nice.
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:09:43 PM EDT
[#6]
I pocket carry a 649 in my pocket. No issues unless your pants aren't held up with a belt.
357 is obviously more to handle than 38 special, but I've never felt it was unshootable. I shoot 357 with wood grips and think it's actually entertaining. Go for the 640 and enjoy. |
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Posted: 5/8/2020 10:14:52 PM EDT
[#7]
I carried a 640 in the pocket for 10 years loaded with golden saber 38+p. Great gun and beat the hell out of an airweight that was not fun to shoot. I'd rather shoot 125gr 357 out of the 640 than 38s in the airweight.
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Posted: 5/8/2020 11:16:05 PM EDT
[#8]
I carry a 640 in my front pocket all the time. Is it heavy? Yes. But its the easiest shooting J frame I've ever owned
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Posted: 5/9/2020 4:53:45 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By majg1234: 640 is too heavy as a pocket gun,I don't understand all the bitching about 357 mag in this platform. 340PD is light!!! pocket carries well, and quite a handful but not unpleasant at all......Unless all you're used to is the 9mm in a G19 You guys need to check the expiration dates on your "Man Card" My 5'2" #110 sammich maker carries shoots and qualified with a 340pd with magnum loads...….some of y'all need to grow a pair. Perhaps someday we can all be as manly as you purport yourself to be? |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 7:17:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By majg1234: 640 is too heavy as a pocket gun,I don't understand all the bitching about 357 mag in this platform. 340PD is light!!! pocket carries well, and quite a handful but not unpleasant at all......Unless all you're used to is the 9mm in a G19 You guys need to check the expiration dates on your "Man Card" My 5'2" #110 sammich maker carries shoots and qualified with a 340pd with magnum loads...….some of y'all need to grow a pair. No pix available for ya wimps I aspire to be as manly as your sammich maker. Your BS aside, steel J frames defeat the purpose. KeeRist, if you are all that manly, why are you asking if a steel J frame weighs too much? Having used a 60 in the last century for 25 years, they are heavy, but small. When brand new this century, I shot my Scandium M&P340 with 50 rounds of .357 and .38+P. Stupid me. It was a month before I could hold and shoot a gun again. Besides if you know anything of 1 7/8” ballistics, the .357 in 1 7/8” is mostly noise and pain, not velocity and effect. The Federal .38+P HST will expand. The Speer Gold Dot 135+P might. Beyond those, you are poking steel rod holes at any velocity. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 8:05:07 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LampShadeActual: I aspire to be as manly as your sammich maker. Your BS aside, steel J frames defeat the purpose. KeeRist, if you are all that manly, why are you asking if a steel J frame weighs too much? Having used a 60 in the last century for 25 years, they are heavy, but small. When brand new this century, I shot my Scandium M&P340 with 50 rounds of .357 and .38+P. Stupid me. It was a month before I could hold and shoot a gun again. Besides if you know anything of 1 7/8” ballistics, the .357 in 1 7/8” is mostly noise and pain, not velocity and effect. The Federal .38+P HST will expand. The Speer Gold Dot 135+P might. Beyond those, you are poking steel rod holes at any velocity. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LampShadeActual: Originally Posted By majg1234: 640 is too heavy as a pocket gun,I don't understand all the bitching about 357 mag in this platform. 340PD is light!!! pocket carries well, and quite a handful but not unpleasant at all......Unless all you're used to is the 9mm in a G19 You guys need to check the expiration dates on your "Man Card" My 5'2" #110 sammich maker carries shoots and qualified with a 340pd with magnum loads...….some of y'all need to grow a pair. No pix available for ya wimps I aspire to be as manly as your sammich maker. Your BS aside, steel J frames defeat the purpose. KeeRist, if you are all that manly, why are you asking if a steel J frame weighs too much? Having used a 60 in the last century for 25 years, they are heavy, but small. When brand new this century, I shot my Scandium M&P340 with 50 rounds of .357 and .38+P. Stupid me. It was a month before I could hold and shoot a gun again. Besides if you know anything of 1 7/8” ballistics, the .357 in 1 7/8” is mostly noise and pain, not velocity and effect. The Federal .38+P HST will expand. The Speer Gold Dot 135+P might. Beyond those, you are poking steel rod holes at any velocity. I agree that a .357 from a j frame is to hard to control but even from 2" barrels still is significantly more powerful than .38 & 9s. That hst will expand but it does not penatrate. It does not even come close to deep enough. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 10:56:31 AM EDT
[#12]
This:
 Does that noting 2” and 4” about the same at 13” and 14”. The base is solid.  I am thinking it penetrates just fine. In fact, it seems to penetrate perfectly without wasting energy on the other side. If you are trying to do car doors and steel sheets an windshields with a 1 7/8” .38, you have already stacked the deck the wrong way. 13”-14” in gel is about as good as you want against close range people. Consistent also? This would be why I got a full case and gave some to friends.  The real surprise is the poor expansion comparably of the NYPD Speer 135 +P .38 and its inconsistency. NYPD thought it worked well. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 10:59:51 AM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: I currently have a 438 that I use for deep concealment/warm weather carry in a pocket. I'm interested in the 640 pro because it has better sights, a full length ejector rod, moon clips, and in theory the ability to shoot .357 mag. Are steel framed j-frames too heavy for pocket carry? Does the additional weight make 357 any more reasonable than in airweight revolvers? Thanks. I carried a 640 in my off-side back pocket when I worked at a gun store. I had a pretty stout horsehide pocket holster and I never sat down, so it was ok. I was in college at the time, almost 25 years ago, I probably wouldn't do it now. |
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Posted: 5/9/2020 5:11:53 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By majg1234: 640 is too heavy as a pocket gun,I don't understand all the bitching about 357 mag in this platform. 340PD is light!!! pocket carries well, and quite a handful but not unpleasant at all......Unless all you're used to is the 9mm in a G19 You guys need to check the expiration dates on your "Man Card" My 5'2" #110 sammich maker carries shoots and qualified with a 340pd with magnum loads...….some of y'all need to grow a pair. No pix available for ya wimps Too much steroid use making you cranky?  |
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Posted: 5/10/2020 9:55:46 AM EDT
[#15]
A little too heavy, but doable. My J Magnum is the only one I use with a full fingered grip, for obvious reasons.
 20150312_104857 by Slick_Rick77, on FlickrMakes it less pocketable, unless ye have large pockets. I personally find these guns tolerable and the scandium/titanium framed guns simply suck to shoot with Magnums. It's kind of fun to do once...but nothing I'd want to do on purpose on a regular basis. |
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Posted: 5/10/2020 12:27:43 PM EDT
[#16]
An 8 round LCP or a 9 round Shield at half to way less weight makes more sense to me than a steel J with big grips.
That J weighs as much as a Glock 19. For five shots only. HellCat coming which makes a J silly. My Scandium J M&P340 gets used for small size, correct pocket shape, and state of art ammo. Even then, 8 rounds in the LCP usually gets the vote. |
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Posted: 5/12/2020 1:04:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: A little too heavy, but doable. My J Magnum is the only one I use with a full fingered grip, for obvious reasons. https://live.staticflickr.com/8711/16608797729_03efbdec01_b.jpg20150312_104857 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr Makes it less pocketable, unless ye have large pockets. I personally find these guns tolerable and the scandium/titanium framed guns simply suck to shoot with Magnums. It's kind of fun to do once...but nothing I'd want to do on purpose on a regular basis. Nice! I wish I had that over my 640. Just so I could shoot SA if I wanted. If you ever want to put a Nightsite. The XS reg dot fits the channel perfectly. |
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Posted: 5/12/2020 2:18:40 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This: https://i.postimg.cc/x852W7RX/AB73-DD35-1-C0-B-4-A19-8-E5-B-503-A4316-E0-B4.jpg Does that noting 2" and 4" about the same at 13" and 14". The base is solid. https://i.postimg.cc/2j7rbbDC/747866-DF-F4-A6-4586-861-A-3-E0-BA19-A9-D79.jpg I am thinking it penetrates just fine. In fact, it seems to penetrate perfectly without wasting energy on the other side. If you are trying to do car doors and steel sheets an windshields with a 1 7/8" .38, you have already stacked the deck the wrong way. 13"-14" in gel is about as good as you want against close range people. Consistent also? This would be why I got a full case and gave some to friends. The real surprise is the poor expansion comparably of the NYPD Speer 135 +P .38 and its inconsistency. NYPD thought it worked well. Any data on how it performs out of a rifle? |
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Posted: 5/12/2020 6:39:10 PM EDT
[#19]
Federal HST .38 Special +P Micro 130 grain. Looks like a lead wadcutter turned around backwards but is a jacketed bullet. The front expands and the rear is a solid jacket.
Personal Defense HST Micro 38 Special +P Part # P38HST1S Bullet Weight: 130 $30.99/20 Its for short barrel revolvers. No clue on rifle use. |
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Posted: 5/12/2020 8:15:20 PM EDT
[#20]
To me the 640 is too big for pocket carry, mostly because I have larger grips on mine. These are Sile combats and 158gr magnums are stout using them, but not painful at all. I use a Side Guard appendix holster for carrying either of these. My 442 has Altamont 3 finger grips as well, and it also rides in a SG appendix holster at need.
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Posted: 5/14/2020 6:50:25 PM EDT
[#21]
While none of these are M60's... The M36 "steel framed" Revo's are almost of the same dimension of slightly longer frame and cylinder of the M60. The Steel M36's are just a "C-Hair" shy of the weight of an M60 and I've front pocket carried (Desantis Nemesis) Blued steel baby and Nickel M36's for 5 years or so along with an M36 in a Bianchi at the 4:15 position concomitantly... i.e. New York Carry Style... many, many times especially during the winter months in the suburbs. It's all about the Belt choice and pants with 6 equidistant belt loops in either Jeans, Khaki's, or Slacks. The Beltman Bullhide Belt with an internal stiffener is what I've used for a long time and to be honest it's: "The-Titts" for sure. No saggin' and no faggin' (boxers or briefs showing @ 6:00 O'clock like the retarded "Urban Yute's" are seen sporting all too often! This particular belt keeps the pants and rig very comfortable all day even in and out of an SUV multiple times a day. I've carried the Colt and the Airweight as well but the M36's are the very best with their Magna's and Tyler-T grip additions. So to cut to the chase... No, I don't feel a single M60 is too heavy for pocket carry with a good belt and pant loops in a Nemesis pocket holster or similar set-up.
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Posted: 5/16/2020 10:45:16 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LampShadeActual: This: https://i.postimg.cc/x852W7RX/AB73-DD35-1-C0-B-4-A19-8-E5-B-503-A4316-E0-B4.jpg Does that noting 2” and 4” about the same at 13” and 14”. The base is solid. https://i.postimg.cc/2j7rbbDC/747866-DF-F4-A6-4586-861-A-3-E0-BA19-A9-D79.jpg I am thinking it penetrates just fine. In fact, it seems to penetrate perfectly without wasting energy on the other side. If you are trying to do car doors and steel sheets an windshields with a 1 7/8” .38, you have already stacked the deck the wrong way. 13”-14” in gel is about as good as you want against close range people. Consistent also? This would be why I got a full case and gave some to friends. The real surprise is the poor expansion comparably of the NYPD Speer 135 +P .38 and its inconsistency. NYPD thought it worked well. Unfortunately thats in clear gel which gives unrealistic penatration numbers. Realistically your looking at 9-10". The speer works better in organic gel tests and real world results. The .38 hst only penatrated 2-4" in organic gel after auto glass. |
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Posted: 5/16/2020 3:45:40 PM EDT
[#23]
I carried a 640Pro both pocket and ankle as a BUG for me it’s a bit heavy in the pocket but doable. It made a great ankle gun and a fantastic IWB. I shot qual courses with it successfully with 110 and 158 357. Though honestly from a snubby it’s hard to argue with a 158 LSWCHP out of the 640 you can shoot them all day. With 357 It’s a fistful your going to know when your done shooting a box. It’s doable however and if your carrying it with mags you will need to shoot them regularly. Sadly the moon clips became worthless in short order if use them on range days. That said I always kept the gun loaded with one to aid in extraction thanks to the extra weight of all casings and this does help with 357. As with any j frame grips can be tailored to your needs readily and is a must for magnum loads. The sights are amazing for a snubby and will spoil you in short order.
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Posted: 5/16/2020 8:17:54 PM EDT
[#24]
From what I’ve read, cops have carried the 640 as a backup for years.
The cheap ones that Aim got in a couple of years ago were trade ins from some state police agency, so I’m assuming they were backup guns. That would mean pocket, ankle, or vest carry. I bought one of those. It was a chunk of steel. I’m 5’10”, 155 and it was way too heavy for me to pocket carry. Not bad on the belt. Like so many other guns, wish I still had it.   Attached File |
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Posted: 5/16/2020 8:20:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I pocket carry a 649 in my pocket. No issues unless your pants aren't held up with a belt. 357 is obviously more to handle than 38 special, but I've never felt it was unshootable. I shoot 357 with wood grips and think it's actually entertaining. Go for the 640 and enjoy. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 5:49:23 AM EDT
[#26]
Not a bad choice but for my purposes a J frame is a BUG or when I want small and light.
I prefer the 342 AirLite loaded with 135gr Gold Dot .38+P My 640 and 649 aren’t bad with .357mag loads but for the weight I’d choose my Glock 43X  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 7:24:08 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Unfortunately thats in clear gel which gives unrealistic penatration numbers. Realistically your looking at 9-10". The speer works better in organic gel tests and real world results. The .38 hst only penatrated 2-4" in organic gel after auto glass. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By LampShadeActual: This: https://i.postimg.cc/x852W7RX/AB73-DD35-1-C0-B-4-A19-8-E5-B-503-A4316-E0-B4.jpg Does that noting 2” and 4” about the same at 13” and 14”. The base is solid. https://i.postimg.cc/2j7rbbDC/747866-DF-F4-A6-4586-861-A-3-E0-BA19-A9-D79.jpg I am thinking it penetrates just fine. In fact, it seems to penetrate perfectly without wasting energy on the other side. If you are trying to do car doors and steel sheets an windshields with a 1 7/8” .38, you have already stacked the deck the wrong way. 13”-14” in gel is about as good as you want against close range people. Consistent also? This would be why I got a full case and gave some to friends. The real surprise is the poor expansion comparably of the NYPD Speer 135 +P .38 and its inconsistency. NYPD thought it worked well. Unfortunately thats in clear gel which gives unrealistic penatration numbers. Realistically your looking at 9-10". The speer works better in organic gel tests and real world results. The .38 hst only penatrated 2-4" in organic gel after auto glass. The FB1 test variations are interesting, but not all apply to every gun/ammo/situation combination. A 1 7/8” J frame is for people, not cars. For CCW uses or even most “I emptied my 18 shot Glock” And need my J frame backup uses, the target is most likely people. The HST seems a people bullet. The Speer GD +P 135 seems to not expand well and penetrates inconsistently in the same gel the HST does well in. The NYPD white shirts thought it effectively, but all revolvers are gone now. “THE” answer, I don’t have, but the HST seems “A“ answer. HST in the cylinder, GD135 for a reload. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 8:14:05 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LampShadeActual: The FB1 test variations are interesting, but not all apply to every gun/ammo/situation combination. A 1 7/8” J frame is for people, not cars. For CCW uses or even most “I emptied my 18 shot Glock” And need my J frame backup uses, the target is most likely people. The HST seems a people bullet. The Speer GD +P 135 seems to not expand well and penetrates inconsistently in the same gel the HST does well in. The NYPD white shirts thought it effectively, but all revolvers are gone now. “THE” answer, I don’t have, but the HST seems “A“ answer. HST in the cylinder, GD135 for a reload. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LampShadeActual: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By LampShadeActual: This: https://i.postimg.cc/x852W7RX/AB73-DD35-1-C0-B-4-A19-8-E5-B-503-A4316-E0-B4.jpg Does that noting 2” and 4” about the same at 13” and 14”. The base is solid. https://i.postimg.cc/2j7rbbDC/747866-DF-F4-A6-4586-861-A-3-E0-BA19-A9-D79.jpg I am thinking it penetrates just fine. In fact, it seems to penetrate perfectly without wasting energy on the other side. If you are trying to do car doors and steel sheets an windshields with a 1 7/8” .38, you have already stacked the deck the wrong way. 13”-14” in gel is about as good as you want against close range people. Consistent also? This would be why I got a full case and gave some to friends. The real surprise is the poor expansion comparably of the NYPD Speer 135 +P .38 and its inconsistency. NYPD thought it worked well. Unfortunately thats in clear gel which gives unrealistic penatration numbers. Realistically your looking at 9-10". The speer works better in organic gel tests and real world results. The .38 hst only penatrated 2-4" in organic gel after auto glass. The FB1 test variations are interesting, but not all apply to every gun/ammo/situation combination. A 1 7/8” J frame is for people, not cars. For CCW uses or even most “I emptied my 18 shot Glock” And need my J frame backup uses, the target is most likely people. The HST seems a people bullet. The Speer GD +P 135 seems to not expand well and penetrates inconsistently in the same gel the HST does well in. The NYPD white shirts thought it effectively, but all revolvers are gone now. “THE” answer, I don’t have, but the HST seems “A“ answer. HST in the cylinder, GD135 for a reload. Its not a very good people bullet. Even if you dont drive or walk around cars the hst does not penatrate enough in bare gel, or denim/gel. It does in clear gel but clear gel does not correlate with organic gel or human tissue. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 9:08:11 AM EDT
[#29]
To answer the OPs last question:
I’ve shot full power .357s out of Scandium guns and out of the 640. I didn’t find it any more “reasonable” out of either gun. You would think the heavy steel gun would have been a pussycat but it felt like the gun exploded. I think the overwhelming majority of people who carry J frame.357s, scandium or steel, load them with .38s or .38 +P. The recoil makes them brutal to practice with, and I felt that my accuracy would suffer to the point that it wouldn’t be safe for me to carry. YMMV as always. 
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Posted: 5/17/2020 12:03:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Its not a very good people bullet. Even if you dont drive or walk around cars the hst does not penatrate enough in bare gel, or denim/gel. It does in clear gel but clear gel does not correlate with organic gel or human tissue. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By LampShadeActual: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By LampShadeActual: This: https://i.postimg.cc/x852W7RX/AB73-DD35-1-C0-B-4-A19-8-E5-B-503-A4316-E0-B4.jpg Does that noting 2” and 4” about the same at 13” and 14”. The base is solid. https://i.postimg.cc/2j7rbbDC/747866-DF-F4-A6-4586-861-A-3-E0-BA19-A9-D79.jpg I am thinking it penetrates just fine. In fact, it seems to penetrate perfectly without wasting energy on the other side. If you are trying to do car doors and steel sheets an windshields with a 1 7/8” .38, you have already stacked the deck the wrong way. 13”-14” in gel is about as good as you want against close range people. Consistent also? This would be why I got a full case and gave some to friends. The real surprise is the poor expansion comparably of the NYPD Speer 135 +P .38 and its inconsistency. NYPD thought it worked well. Unfortunately thats in clear gel which gives unrealistic penatration numbers. Realistically your looking at 9-10". The speer works better in organic gel tests and real world results. The .38 hst only penatrated 2-4" in organic gel after auto glass. The FB1 test variations are interesting, but not all apply to every gun/ammo/situation combination. A 1 7/8” J frame is for people, not cars. For CCW uses or even most “I emptied my 18 shot Glock” And need my J frame backup uses, the target is most likely people. The HST seems a people bullet. The Speer GD +P 135 seems to not expand well and penetrates inconsistently in the same gel the HST does well in. The NYPD white shirts thought it effectively, but all revolvers are gone now. “THE” answer, I don’t have, but the HST seems “A“ answer. HST in the cylinder, GD135 for a reload. Its not a very good people bullet. Even if you dont drive or walk around cars the hst does not penatrate enough in bare gel, or denim/gel. It does in clear gel but clear gel does not correlate with organic gel or human tissue. Unfortunately, ideal does not exist in the 2” .38 Special world. A comparison in the same test box above: Baseline: Speer Gold Dot +P 135 has worked well enough to be thought good in the 2” snub .38 world. 13.6” average penetration at a very inconsistent 0.44” average expansion in 2”. Compare: Federal HST +P 130. Its relatively new on the reversed wadcutter theory. 13.0” average penetration at a very consistent 0.73” expansion. The HST is double to triple the frontal tissue cutting area with 0.6” less penetration. For people, I would pick the HST. If the HST is no good, the Speer GD us even less effective if you look at the expanded or not expanded bullets. The Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain loads are interesting but no more effective in .38. The needed weight and velocity in .38 are just missing. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 12:53:02 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By LampShadeActual: Unfortunately, ideal does not exist in the 2” .38 Special world. A comparison in the same test box above: Baseline: Speer Gold Dot +P 135 has worked well enough to be thought good in the 2” snub .38 world. 13.6” average penetration at a very inconsistent 0.44” average expansion in 2”. Compare: Federal HST +P 130. Its relatively new on the reversed wadcutter theory. 13.0” average penetration at a very consistent 0.73” expansion. The HST is double to triple the frontal tissue cutting area with 0.6” less penetration. For people, I would pick the HST. If the HST is no good, the Speer GD us even less effective if you look at the expanded or not expanded bullets. The Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain loads are interesting but no more effective in .38. The needed weight and velocity in .38 are just missing. Thats why id carry a hard cast swc in a 2" .38. I dont want something that "might" get to the vitals. Expansion is great "if" the penatration is there. |
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Posted: 5/17/2020 2:03:00 PM EDT
[#32]
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