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Durkin Tactical Franklin Armory
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11/2/2022 4:30:06 PM
Posted: 7/9/2021 12:46:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: Tin_Star]
I inherited something here that I’m pretty clueless about. My grandfather was in Europe in WW2. He was in Patton’s “Hell on Wheels” Armored division. Unfortunately, he died in 1970. I was too young then to have much interest in history, or his involvement in it. I remember his being able to speak pretty good German before he died.

Anyway…After he died, my father inherited a P-08 Luger from gramps. I didn’t know much about it, and basically forgot it existed until dad passed last year. In going through dad’s stuff, I found, and inherited this Luger.
I never thought to ask dad about it, or it’s history. I only know it was grandpa’s before he passed in 1970.

I don’t know how gramps came to have it. He could have bought it at a pawn shop state side, or he could have personally taken it off Hitler’s dead body. I suspect it was a WW2 bring back. I just don’t know.

But now I have it. I know NOTHING about P-8 Lugers. I thought I’d post it here, and see what info you Luger guys could tell me about it. I don’t know what I’m going to do with it yet. I really don’t feel much of a sentimental connection to it, other that it was handed down to me from gramps, to dad, and now to me. My kids would have no interest in it when I pass.
So anyway, here’s some pictures I took of it. Tell me what this is….

First, a Pic of Gramps in theater:
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And the gun. It’s in a wooden presentation case that it obviously pretty old. The foam inside is slowly deteriorating. There are two silver SS cufflinks, and a silver SS coat button. A couple of German coins, a German bank note, and two military cloth patches.
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The Gun:
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ETA: The magazine is an aluminum base steel mag, with no numbers on it.

Pictures of the other items in the case continued Next Post:

Link Posted: 7/9/2021 12:48:43 PM EST
Pictures of the other items in the case continued:

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So....What do I have here?

Link Posted: 7/9/2021 12:57:51 PM EST
1942 Mauser built "Black Widow".  The Black Widow moniker comes from the black Bakelite grips.  It's a US collector thing, the Germans never called them that.  

Probably $3k plus in today's market, possibly a lot more if you can get two knuckleheads into a bidding war on Gunbroker.  Go to GB and search Black Widow Luger in completed sales.

Nice inheritance.
Link Posted: 7/9/2021 1:00:13 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/9/2021 1:22:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/9/2021 1:43:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: Hans_Landa] [#5]
If you don't find any import mark on it then it's probably a bring back.  There could be paperwork for the gun that your grandfather or someone else had to allow them to bring it back in or it was simply snuck in.  I would definitely get it out of that case and store it in something else.  It looks like foam and that can hold moisture.

What you have is a Mauser Luger made in 1942.  The byf was the classified code to indicate Mauser made the gun.  42 for the year of manufacture.  From the outside it looks like it's numbers matching and I wouldn't be surprised if the internals were matching as well.  Also, you have the proper proof marks (the eagle over 135) and the eagle over the swastika that is on the receiver as well as the barrel.  Knowing the condition of the bore would be important for determining the value, but if we go with the idea that it's in good condition and all numbers matching you probably have a value around $1,700 to $2,000.  It's is not a "Black Widow"  that is a made up, bullshit name in order to generate value in Lugers once Mauser switched from wood to plastic grips.

All of the other things you shown (patches and so forth) give no value to the gun.  They're most likely little things/momentos that he added to boost the image of the gun.
Link Posted: 7/9/2021 2:20:53 PM EST
Thanks for the info!

Just to answer your question, the bore is in pristine condition. I have to assume the pistol has been shot, but if so, it wasn't shot much. Everything is nice and crisp inside it with no signs of wear at all.

Maybe I'll find a Nazi Memorabilia collector who wants this stuff. I'd think those SS cuff links would be worth something.

Anyway, thanks again.
Link Posted: 7/9/2021 5:41:26 PM EST
[Last Edit: Hans_Landa] [#7]
So think around $2000.  You can look on Simpson Ltd to get an idea of prices
Link Posted: 12/12/2021 11:27:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: Ductapeman] [#8]
The bank note is from the Weimar Republic era, for One Million (Eine Milliarde) Reichsmarks. In 1928 it took a wheelbarrow full of them to buy a loaf of bread. No value now except possibly to a coin collector. And I have a pistol very like yours, except mine has wood grips.

Also, the serial numbers the Germans used had the four-number-and-a-letter format, changing the letter every time the numbers roll over, so 10,000 numbers per letter-- so your letter "b" is part of the serial number, as in 3922b, the second time through the numbers. This will help you understand the dating sequences a little better.
Link Posted: 12/12/2021 11:48:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: sandblaster] [#9]
Very nice Mauser in great shape with historical provenance I would place value between $3500-$4500, too bad there is not a holster.
Link Posted: 2/4/2022 10:44:39 AM EST
Great looking P-08. Ralph Shattack was the one who coined the term Black Widow. They were Mauser made BYF41 & 42 with black bakelite grips and a black plastic magazine bottom.

The BYF42's were the last Mauser made P-08 Lugers issued to the Wehrmacht before production ceased and P-38 production began. Appx. 21,150 P-38's were made in 1942 by Mauser and Wehrmacht issued after the P-08's ceased production.
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