Posted: 4/12/2020 7:56:31 AM EDT
[#9]
The internet being what it is, I probably should write ScottS off as excessively vitriolic late in the evening of KungFlu times, but well, somethings need an answer if too gratuitously unpleasant. Expand the quote. Quote History Quoted:
Lots of opinion here, presented as fact. Having and using all five .22s mentioned, fact/opinion is a shorthand observation of using those five 1-2 cases of .22LR a year. I never use second line ammo, Blazer being inexpensive enough. I would call it reporting observations.
"The 22C is decidedly not accurate." Somehow that's a quantifiable fact? What is "accurate?" I have no problems with all the accuracy of the gun(s), especially given the 3.56" barrel. Of the five mentioned, the 22C is the least accurate and produces 25 yard benched 10 shot groups 1.5 to 2 times the size of the other guns.
Add to the fact that the safety works like every other gun in the world, as opposed to the "up is fire, down is safe" SR22, and the choice becomes even more clear. And even more clear when you realize there's no larger caliber analog to the SR22, like there is with the M&P family. The SR22 lever is a decocker on the frame. Like a SIG or a Walther. You can like it or not like it, but it works and you can see the hammer. The 22C compared to a no safety MP9 2.0 is about equally disconnected feature wise.
"Federal AutoMatch is weak in the SR22, but is 100% in a man’s hand in the 22C. In a kid or weak woman’s hand, the 22C starts to short stroke with AutoMatch." This statement is not only unsupportable, but just ridiculous on its face. It not only assumes kids and "weak women" somehow can't hold the gun firmly, it also reaches a conclusion based on some small sample size of anecdotal evidence. AutoMatch is a slower than High Speed .22LR. Observationally, in a clean SR22, the action cycles slower, but works with AutoMatch whether kids or guys shoot it. The AutoMatch in a 22C has generated the ONLY failures to cycle the 22C has ever experienced. The cycle failures were all short strokes in a kid’s or woman’s hand. Absent hand/arm weight and a firm grip, AutoMatch is marginal in the 22C. The 22C has never failed to function with MiniMags or Blazer.
Although it's not surprising coming from the guy that preaches the only way to make the 380 EZ work is to chop up the followers, and is annoyed that S&W ignores his "engineering." This seems a bit vitriolic, but so what. Some but not all 380EZ’s eject the last loaded round out of the magazine along with the second to last fired case. The follower mod simply keeps the last round in the magazine until the slide chambers it. Springs and new followers do not fix the ones than lose the last round as soon as the new spring weakens slightly. Since you read the thread, the height reduction of the mag release is the really hard one to understand until you lay a 380EZ down on the wrong side and the mag pops out or it pops out while in a holster.
The 22/45 is an excellent weapon; I have 3, and I'm a fan, but comparing the tube-and-bolt receiver to a regular slide/frame design is apples and oranges, especially for new shooters, or shooters looking to move up to other guns. Steel 22/45s are heavy. Steel or aluminum, you have to be specific. 22/45 Lites are a gem. And they work.
OP, take from someone who puts thousands of rounds through half a dozen 22C's every year, and run regular classes of new shooters (including kids and "weak women"), you won't regret a M&P 22C? This all said, next week I am taking a new shooter out with his MP9 2.0 no safety. The 22C will get shot first. They are certainly good enough for familiarity and initial shooting. Brand name sameness even though it has a safety is the main reason. Useable, but not the best. . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quote History Quoted:Quoted: Ruger SR22P is in the same class and way more accurate.
The 22C is decidedly not accurate.
Both are nice kids guns or for small womenettes. Both are 100% reliable with CCI MiniMags or CCI Blazer. Federal AutoMatch is weak in the SR22, but is 100% in a man’s hand in the 22C. In a kid or weak woman’s hand, the 22C starts to short stroke with AutoMatch.
A Ruger 22/45 Lite is the same weight and vastly more accurate. Dependable with the CCI ammo.
The 22/45 Lite is by far a better gun than either, at, of course, the price of both little ones.
Most fun is the Beretta 92 series .22s and the Colt 1911 .22s. Lots of opinion here, presented as fact. Having and using all five .22s mentioned, fact/opinion is a shorthand observation of using those five 1-2 cases of .22LR a year. I never use second line ammo, Blazer being inexpensive enough. I would call it reporting observations."The 22C is decidedly not accurate." Somehow that's a quantifiable fact? What is "accurate?" I have no problems with all the accuracy of the gun(s), especially given the 3.56" barrel. Of the five mentioned, the 22C is the least accurate and produces 25 yard benched 10 shot groups 1.5 to 2 times the size of the other guns. Add to the fact that the safety works like every other gun in the world, as opposed to the "up is fire, down is safe" SR22, and the choice becomes even more clear. And even more clear when you realize there's no larger caliber analog to the SR22, like there is with the M&P family. The SR22 lever is a decocker on the frame. Like a SIG or a Walther. You can like it or not like it, but it works and you can see the hammer. The 22C compared to a no safety MP9 2.0 is about equally disconnected feature wise."Federal AutoMatch is weak in the SR22, but is 100% in a man’s hand in the 22C. In a kid or weak woman’s hand, the 22C starts to short stroke with AutoMatch." This statement is not only unsupportable, but just ridiculous on its face. It not only assumes kids and "weak women" somehow can't hold the gun firmly, it also reaches a conclusion based on some small sample size of anecdotal evidence. AutoMatch is a slower than High Speed .22LR. Observationally, in a clean SR22, the action cycles slower, but works with AutoMatch whether kids or guys shoot it. The AutoMatch in a 22C has generated the ONLY failures to cycle the 22C has ever experienced. The cycle failures were all short strokes in a kid’s or woman’s hand. Absent hand/arm weight and a firm grip, AutoMatch is marginal in the 22C. The 22C has never failed to function with MiniMags or Blazer. Although it's not surprising coming from the guy that preaches the only way to make the 380 EZ work is to chop up the followers, and is annoyed that S&W ignores his "engineering." This seems a bit vitriolic, but so what. Some but not all 380EZ’s eject the last loaded round out of the magazine along with the second to last fired case. The follower mod simply keeps the last round in the magazine until the slide chambers it. Springs and new followers do not fix the ones than lose the last round as soon as the new spring weakens slightly. Since you read the thread, the height reduction of the mag release is the really hard one to understand until you lay a 380EZ down on the wrong side and the mag pops out or it pops out while in a holster. The 22/45 is an excellent weapon; I have 3, and I'm a fan, but comparing the tube-and-bolt receiver to a regular slide/frame design is apples and oranges, especially for new shooters, or shooters looking to move up to other guns. Steel 22/45s are heavy. Steel or aluminum, you have to be specific. 22/45 Lites are a gem. And they work. OP, take from someone who puts thousands of rounds through half a dozen 22C's every year, and run regular classes of new shooters (including kids and "weak women"), you won't regret a M&P 22C? This all said, next week I am taking a new shooter out with his MP9 2.0 no safety. The 22C will get shot first. They are certainly good enough for familiarity and initial shooting. Brand name sameness even though it has a safety is the main reason. Useable, but not the best. . If you want a real opinion, the Taurus TX22 with a good barrel is a better trainer than any other .22, Glock’s M44 included. The other reason I am using the 22C for a new guy next week, is that the TX22 is less appropriate size wise for his wife and boy at a later date. Getting a good barrel is problematic when you have to inspect before paying good money these days. The TX22 is perfect for most uses. The small overall grip size of the 22C and the SR22 make them nice for kids and smaller people.
Required images for size comparison:
So, that’s it. 11-11 *Yes, Tupperware Glock Boxes are perfect homes.
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