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Posted: 11/10/2018 1:25:19 AM EDT
Why is there so much dislike for Kimber?
Was thinking about getting a Jaeger 10mm |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2018 2:33:11 AM EDT
[#1]
Years ago I ordered a stainless Target II in 10mm sight unseen. When it showed up the mainspring housing was gray plastic.
Nope. |
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Posted: 11/10/2018 2:46:05 AM EDT
[#2]
Cohen really fucked things up when he worked there.
I have heard alot of anecdotal reports of problems. I personally only know of one that was problematic. My Elite Carry which was manufactured in 1998 and purchased new by me that year, has been flawless and almost boring to shoot since it's very accurate and eats everything. 
This gun is now sold as the Pro CDP II. I have a buddy with an SIS and his is the same as mine in terms of reliability and accuracy. But there is alot of hate for Kimber pistols on this board. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2018 2:48:48 AM EDT
[#3]
Gun companies are like car companies - Some give you very expensive non-essential features/decor on a chassis that is not much different from less expensive makers and often not any more reliable than the cheaper model.
Some cars are meant to be status symbols that aren't driven very much, and others are meant to be be long haul truckers but not very pretty. To me Kimber falls into the status symbol overpriced 1911 class. I can by 4 good shooters for the price of one Kimber. |
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IN, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2018 2:56:08 AM EDT
[#4]
Purchased a TLE/RL II. Sent it back to Kimber four times due to failure to feed / failure to eject issues. Shipping costs were adding up and they did nothing. The last time I sent it back to them with a note to just keep the POS. They of course sent it back once again. In the end, they never fixed the problem. I sold it on Gunbroker with the stated issues the gun had for half of what I paid for it. Kimber... never again.
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Posted: 11/10/2018 2:56:56 AM EDT
[#5]
When Kimber first came out on the scene, they made a damn good gun with all of the options that people were spending money at the gunsmith for, at a lower price and from the factory.
Kimber was selling a better gun at stock Colt prices. And to get the same thing from a Colt, you needed to spend an additional $5000-$1000 at a gunsmith, AFTER buying the base gun. That's why I bought mine when I did. Now, I'd honestly have to strongly consider going elsewhere if buying new. If buying used, I'd want to shoot it first. 10mm is getting more and more love lately, (not my cup of tea, but to each his own). Have you looked at the Sig Hunter in 10mm or the RIA 10mm if you want to keep it in the 1911 style? |
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Posted: 11/10/2018 3:07:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Southrnshooter]
[#6]
I bought a Pro Carry II around 8 years ago. Paid $650 for it at a shop that was going out of business. I put a Wilson Combat MSH, mag release, slide stop, and a bull barrel guide rod and spring (to make it a tool-less takedown) on it. None of this was really necessary other than the mag release. It did not work correctly. And I did not like the plastic MSH.
Now I have a very nice commander size carry 1911 that's been 100% with every round of ammo I've put through it. Mine is blued, carried in a leather holster and I've never had a single issue with rust that has plagued some Kimber owners, even here in the humid state of NC. Is the hate justified? Probably by some. No company is free of making problem children products. I got mine for a decent price, put a few good parts in it and I'm happy. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 11/10/2018 3:05:05 PM EDT
[#7]
In the late 90's, there was Colt, Springfield, and Para Ordnance. All of them were mediocre at that time...cast frames on the latter two, poor fitment, and parts quality was lacking. Kimber actually went to Colt and asked them to machine the slides and frames but Colt could not provide the quality that Kimber was looking for. Kimber wanted them to add CNC equipment but the UAW said no to any automation, so they went to Jericho.
Kimber used MIM and plastic mainspring housings to cut some costs but the pistols were built well and were reliable. I bought a Kimber Gold Match and a Custom Target during this time. Both of them were solid, reliable, pistols and I still have the Custom Target. Along came the era of the Series II pistols with the firing pin safety and the external extractor. These were some dark years as the external extractor was plagued with quality issues and the firing pin safety was susceptible to timing tolerances. Kimber ended up going back to the internal extractor but has retained the FPS. Springfield and Colt have both stepped up their game since that time and along came Dan Wesson. I have not shopped for a 1911 in a couple years but the last time I did, I ended up with a Dan Wesson as it had a few better features than the Springfield, and the Colt was pretty sloppy. |
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Posted: 11/10/2018 3:32:40 PM EDT
[#8]
If I was in the market for a 1911 today I'd go with a Dan Wesson. They actually weren't all that great when they were independent, since CZ bought them they've improved dramatically.
Kimbers were the opposite. When they first came out they were very serviceable guns with several custom features that weren't available on other factory guns. Now they're just a lot of chintzy flash without a lot of QC. And they've had had several total failures, the KPD, the Solo, etc. |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#9]
One of the biggest issues with Kimber is that it's possible to depress the grip safety enough to pull the trigger/drop the hammer but NOT activate the firing pin block mechanism. That leads to a "click" instead of a "boom", which is not what you want, especially if you're going to use it as a duty gun, assuming you've vetted it for reliability first. It's possible to fix the timing of this, but by default...most Kimbers out of the factory will fail the timing check. It's one of the inherent possible failings of the Swartz type system, and a reason why when Colt decided to go with a firing pin block, they abandoned their own idea they pioneered in the 30s and 40s and went with the S80 system instead.
They make really pretty guns, and I've had a couple but wound up selling them. Always in the back of my mind was the Swartz issue, combined with known MIM part breakage issues in Kimbers (it's not limited to Kimber, it's a bad MIM thing, but Kimber was a pioneer in using bad MIM parts...). You can remove the rear sight and take out all of the firing pin block guts and avoid the firing pin block issues altogether, but if you're one of the folks who actually appreciate a firing pin block (I do, as I carry AIWB at times)...it sort of defeats one of the purposes of buying a 1911 with this feature. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 11/15/2018 12:48:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Buy a 10mm TRP instead. There is a 6'' and a RMR version too.
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Posted: 11/26/2018 6:28:30 PM EDT
[#11]
My 1998 vintage custom has been flawless. This is a pre series II pistol we are talking about.
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Posted: 11/26/2018 6:49:50 PM EDT
[#12]
My 01 Stainless Gold Match has been great - my USPSA single-stack gun. I broke the rear sight, sent to Kimber and it was back, fixed, no charge in a ridiculously short time. I'm a fan.
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Posted: 12/3/2018 12:26:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Staggunner]
[#13]
I just bought a new Eclipse Custom in 10mm. I bought a box of Sig 180 fmj with it. Got it home and the fmjs worked fine.
We are overrun with bears here which is why I bought the damn thing so I ordered some Buffalo Bore 220 hardcast flatpoints. I have yet to get one in the chamber, they just stovepipe when I rack the slide. So I tried some 180 swc that I have been loading for a buddy. Same deal, stovepipe. The Sig factory ammo's OAL is 1.126". The Buffalo Boar is 1.125" as are the reloads. I have two Springers and a Colt, they all work fine. Never buy a Kimber. ETA: Using the single Kimber mag that came with the POS |
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Posted: 12/3/2018 12:32:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: M4-AR]
[#14]
Bought a TRL/RL 2 in ‘05 and never had a single issue.
Shoot 1-2k a year with it. Every year. My next is going to be a Dan Wesson though. |
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Posted: 12/12/2018 10:22:16 AM EDT
[#15]
I have owned 3 series 1 Kimbers. I still own 1 a Gold Match. They have all been reliable almost to Glock levels. There is a lot of hate for plastic MSH. There is also hate for MIM parts. The people who hate MIM parts are the same ones who buy a new car and rebuild the engine with forged internals. The automakers use a lot of MIM inside of engine and have for over 20 years. Glock now uses an MIM locking block.
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Posted: 2/3/2019 12:53:25 AM EDT
[#16]
My first carry gun was a Kimber TLE II. Fantastic. Carried it for years. I stopped counting rounds after 10,000. It rode on my hip in a Ford Ranger with no A/C for 5 years in Memphis summers and I sweat a lot. Great gun can't say enough good things about it. Now it has been given to my father as his HD pistol. Now lets talk about my Warrior. I think I got it early 07. I couldn't make it through a single range session without a handful of malfunctions. Put a Wilson extractor in it seemed to fix most of the problems. I still have it but I hardly ever shoot it. Now comes my brothers. It was an aluminum framed model with the external extractor what a shit show. That gun drove him to Glocks.
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Posted: 2/3/2019 1:01:06 AM EDT
[#17]
I am happy with my recent Kimber purchase. There may have been some issues in the past.
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WA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2019 1:23:10 AM EDT
[#18]
I bought a used Kimber custom II from here in EE last year. I have put at least 500 through it so far, and it has run flawless. Shoots anything I feed it.
Here, opinions do vary.. |
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Posted: 2/25/2019 5:50:39 PM EDT
[#19]
I had a Stainless Target II for a long time. I loved to shoot it, but I had to upgrade the rear sight when the blade came off under recoil. The previous owner replaced that POS plastic MSH with a real one. One of my bigger gripes with them is that the resale value is generally poor. I know, resale value shouldn't matter, keep them all...yadayadayada - but when the resale values decline precipitously over time, that is a bad sign to me. There isn't much faith in them in the used market because there have been enough problem cases out there.
There are models that if I got my hands on I would never sell, but that would be the old Gold Match types. -shooter |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 3/19/2019 11:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: NVGdude]
[#20]
There are really three things:
Mainly it's the continuing taint of Ron Cohen and his drive to crappify every company he works for. When Cohen came onboard he decided to cut costs by going to an external extractor. That was... a bad decision. They redesigned it, still crappy. Finally they gave up and went back to a traditional, well proven, internal extractor. Even today, you can talk Kimber into changing out your entire slide to get rid of the EE design. Note when Cohen went over to Sig they used an external extractor. It was... bad. Lots of problems. Sig redesigned it, but their redesign actually worked. Sig has other QC issues since Cohen got there. So that's the main thing, long term memory from real problems that happened a decade ago. Another issue is that on many of Kimber's more expensive guns, the quality is just as good as their lower end guns. You are paying a lot for cosmetics. The third issue is that for some reason people think Kimber uses Stainless Steel barrels. They are not. They are good quality carbon steel and need to be maintained as such. So, people treat them like stainless and get a patina on the barrel. Personally never had a single problem with any Kimber that I could not immediately blame on out of spec ammo. As long as your ammo isn't oversized, fit's in a case gage, then it will work just fine. I don't get the hate for the plastic MSH. It saves weight. My Colts also came with a plastic MSH. Hell of a lot better than the stupid MSH with the built in lock like they have on a springfield. You know what I did with that? I threw it away and installed a plastic one from Colt. |
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VA, USA
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Posted: 3/20/2019 9:21:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: bovw]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By NVGdude:
There are really three things: Mainly it's the continuing taint of Ron Cohen and his drive to crappify every company he works for. When Cohen came onboard he decided to cut costs by going to an external extractor. That was... a bad decision. They redesigned it, still crappy. Finally they gave up and went back to a traditional, well proven, internal extractor. Even today, you can talk Kimber into changing out your entire slide to get rid of the EE design. Note when Cohen went over to Sig they used an external extractor. It was... bad. Lots of problems. Sig redesigned it, but their redesign actually worked. Sig has other QC issues since Cohen got there. So that's the main thing, long term memory from real problems that happened a decade ago. Another issue is that on many of Kimber's more expensive guns, the quality is just as good as their lower end guns. You are paying a lot for cosmetics. The third issue is that for some reason people think Kimber uses Stainless Steel barrels. They are not. They are good quality carbon steel and need to be maintained as such. So, people treat them like stainless and get a patina on the barrel. Personally never had a single problem with any Kimber that I could not immediately blame on out of spec ammo. As long as your ammo isn't oversized, fit's in a case gage, then it will work just fine. I don't get the hate for the plastic MSH. It saves weight. My Colts also came with a plastic MSH. Hell of a lot better than the stupid MSH with the built in lock like they have on a springfield. You know what I did with that? I threw it away and installed a plastic one from Colt. |
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Posted: 3/20/2019 9:31:32 AM EDT
[#22]
I would never support a New York based gun maker. Plus I hate 1911's
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KY, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2019 3:57:37 PM EDT
[#23]
My carry gun is a Kimber Pro CDP, not a CDP II, I bought it right after Kimber first introduced that model. It has performed flawlessly since I've had it and still shoots good. It is showing some wear and the tritium dots in the sights no longer glow like they used to ,but it's a carry gun and still gets the job done. I say all the time unless you want to drop large amounts of coin on some the boutique 1911's out there today,it's hard to beat a Kimber, Springfield, or a Series 70 Colt.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2019 4:10:01 PM EDT
[#24]
The first generation ones were awesome!! The newer ones have serious quality control issues. Finishes that flake off. Not reliable out of the box. Barrels that rust. Sights that are a pain to change out. Right now Dan Wesson is the way to go for a production 1911 no question.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/18/2019 4:34:09 PM EDT
[#25]
I bought my TLE RLII in 2006 and haven’t had any issues with it.
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Posted: 4/18/2019 4:38:23 PM EDT
[#26]
 Soon to be made by highly skilled Pike County Alabama rednecks. Quality is sure to skyrocket.
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Posted: 4/24/2019 4:57:45 PM EDT
[#27]
I have one Kimber. A compact stainless in 45acp. Series 1.
It has been flawless. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 6/10/2019 6:51:31 PM EDT
[#28]
I've had several over the years. They all ran except one, couldn't get it to for the life of me. 2 main things that kimbers(and 1911s) need is properly tined extractor and Wilson etm or Tripp mags. I've had 3 recent examples: tle PRO II, aegis pro, 10mm campguard. The camp guard and aegis elite ran perfect out of the box. First day on the range I ran 250rds through the aegis without a hitch, my buddy couldn't get through a mag with his 1500 sti. My tle pro ran fine also, I did remove the fps from slide. The higher end kimbers are 70series, stick with them or remove the fps from slide, tune extractor, and run good mags and they work good. I do have a dw guardian 38super, dw vigil cco, dw eco, and dw pointman cco( at nighthawk). The dw do run very well and are within 400-600$ of the kimber.
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Posted: 6/10/2019 6:55:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: wildearp]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DvlDog:
Years ago I ordered a stainless Target II in 10mm sight unseen. When it showed up the mainspring housing was gray plastic. Nope. I own 4 Kimbers, 3 of which have been extensively modified with a small piece of skateboard tape on the front of the grip. The rest have successfully negotiated matches and a lot of rounds. I am running the Dillon and punching out more .45 right now. 
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Posted: 6/10/2019 7:24:47 PM EDT
[#30]
I don't know but I would love to check out one of their new revolvers. I'm not a revolver guy but they look beautiful!
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GA, USA
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Posted: 6/23/2019 9:58:02 AM EDT
[#31]
My father and I aren't Kimber haters at all. We both love the Kimber handguns of any design they design and make. I own the Kimber Ultra Crimson Carry || with laser 3" .45acp I love it.
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Posted: 6/23/2019 10:58:10 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By taulce02:
Purchased a TLE/RL II. Sent it back to Kimber four times due to failure to feed / failure to eject issues. Shipping costs were adding up and they did nothing. The last time I sent it back to them with a note to just keep the POS. They of course sent it back once again. In the end, they never fixed the problem. I sold it on Gunbroker with the stated issues the gun had for half of what I paid for it. Kimber... never again. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 3/11/2020 5:23:50 PM EDT
[#33]
I have one Kimber, ProCarry II. Paid retail, but at least it was the entry level model. It's very accurate for my standards and I like the gun very much. Eats all the Ball ammo I have put in it. Haven't put any hollow points or anything.
They are probably overpriced for what they are in the current market, but I don't feel bad because I really like the gun and it shoots great. Also the trigger is very nice and clean, which I like. I have seen the Kimber hate for years, which makes me question my purchase, but personally I can't find anything wrong with my gun, so I don't dwell on it too much. If I was buying again, I would do some more research. My wife is looking for a pocket pistol and she likes my Kimber, so I am going to be looking at the Kimber Micro models. I held one and the feel pretty good in the hand. I'd really like to shoot one before buying. |
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Posted: 3/11/2020 5:33:34 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MaxxII:
When Kimber first came out on the scene, they made a damn good gun with all of the options that people were spending money at the gunsmith for, at a lower price and from the factory. Kimber was selling a better gun at stock Colt prices. And to get the same thing from a Colt, you needed to spend an additional $5000-$1000 at a gunsmith, AFTER buying the base gun. That's why I bought mine when I did. Now, I'd honestly have to strongly consider going elsewhere if buying new. If buying used, I'd want to shoot it first. 10mm is getting more and more love lately, (not my cup of tea, but to each his own). Have you looked at the Sig Hunter in 10mm or the RIA 10mm if you want to keep it in the 1911 style? What they started as and what they are now are two different things, and the market is very different. Now you will have a harder time finding a 1911 that doesnt have a target hammer, beavertail, improved sights, extended safety, and an enlarged ejection port. All that stuff was custom shop shit when kimber debuted, or you were buying a super spendy high end gun. Now, every 1911 mfg makes those things standard. Hell, you can get a rock river for $600 with those features. Or you can spend $4k if you want a gun that comes absolutely flawless, tight, and perfect. |
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Posted: 3/11/2020 5:39:39 PM EDT
[#35]
I have several that I bought from 2009-2010 and have had zero issues with any of them. I discovered the S&W M&P however not long after and bought a pair. Kimbers sit in the safe. Not sure why but for the price/durability I like the S&Ws better.
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DE, USA
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Posted: 3/21/2020 11:38:00 PM EDT
[#36]
I have six.
Micro 9 Raptor Aegis 9mm 10mm Target II 10mm Target II Long Slide .45acp Target II .45acp Custom II Love them all. |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2020 10:51:05 PM EDT
[#37]
QC really went to shit for awhile, they earned the hate. I have a 20 something year old TLE/RLII that is an absolute tack driver, but I got it when the gettin was good and they were still top of the line
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 4/9/2020 8:56:25 PM EDT
[#38]
I have a series one and have had to replace the plunger tube and slide release and the rear target sights twice. Sounds like a lot of parts to fail but it has been used well.
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/25/2020 10:33:04 PM EDT
[#39]
My first was an Eclipse 10mm about 12 years ago or better, it was pretty but an absolute turd, it wouldn't feed for squat and frankly I didn't think it shot that good. In all fairness I owned several .45 models, the Pro CDP II, basic ass Custom II (both blued and stainless), Raptor (both blued and stainless) and Super Carry Custom and those worked just fine, can't say too much bad about the .45 models I owned. Of those the CDP II and Super Carry were probably the ones I liked the best.
I bought a Dan Wesson CBOB .45 and instantly realized the quality level was well above Kimber, so much so that I understood that for what you pay, Kimber is actually overpriced by a good bit. Plus all Kimbers are basically the same gun with slight cosmetic differences. Then learning about all the MIM Kimber uses and remembering how their mainspring housings were plastic (one or two of mine broke), it solidified that really Kimbers aren't very good at all, they just pay for pretty ads and people think they're buying a real gem when really they're getting swindled. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 6/1/2020 9:46:24 PM EDT
[#40]
I can only speak from my own experiences.
I have owned four Kimbers and they have all been 100% reliable and have eaten absolutely everything I've fed them without issue. Part of the problem is once a place gets a certain reputation people who've never owned one start jumping on the bandwagon and screaming about how bad they are because they heard someone else say so who may or may not have actually owned one themselves. |
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Posted: 6/1/2020 9:56:58 PM EDT
[#41]
I bought six models in 2010. I'm thrilled with them. One was converted to a .460 Rowland Compensated Conversion. Hurts to shoot it but after a couple of hundred rounds I kind of like it. First time I shot it it was not pleasant.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/3/2020 8:35:04 AM EDT
[#42]
3 Commander, 1 Officer that have been problem free. I've carried the Tactical Ultra II daily for probably 10 years and shoot it weekly without any issues.
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Posted: 7/21/2020 1:22:41 AM EDT
[#43]
 
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COL
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Posted: 7/21/2020 11:31:19 AM EDT
[#44]
I blindly bought a Kimber when our local Gander Mountain was closing. Bought a Custom II two tone full size for $500. Bought it on a whim.
Shot it, upgraded some of the cheaper parts. Good purchase. Came here and was told it was junk...  I like mine. |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2020 5:24:47 AM EDT
[#45]
I love my Kimbers, only have two of them and both are classics. The first one is an Eclipse Target, the first series from 2000. It was a rare find purchased earlier this year. The gun was NOS, the case still had the seal on it had never even been opened. This was my second one of these, sold the first one to a gentleman with more money than smarts.
The second one is truly a Kimber classic, it's a Custom Compact from 1998. The early Kimbers were Chip McCormic, Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat. These guns are very rare, they only made about 2000 of the Compact guns. The early ones were series 70, and were not stuffed full of MIM parts. But were hand fitted with Wilson, and McCormic parts. The Compact is in amazeing condition absolutely flawless in original condition. If you looked at it you would think it had never been fired unless you looked inside if it. And both shoot spot on and very accurate. |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 7/23/2020 5:44:50 AM EDT
[#46]
Because I bought a tleII on my 21st birthday and it was a pos. I eventually sold it to a cop that carried a 1911 on duty wanted to practice clearing malfunctions.
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Posted: 9/17/2020 8:32:54 AM EDT
[#47]
I had a CDP II years ago and had the mainspring housing essentially explode while shooting it. I had never imagined that part would be plastic given the price of the gun. One minute everything was as it should be, then I felt a sharp poke to my hand. When I looked down I saw the mainspring housing in several pieces. I got rid of all my Kimbers shortly thereafter. But ago a year ago I bought a used Warrior and it has been great. One of the things I liked about the Warrior when I researched them was that there was no plastic or MIM parts.
I think another place where Kimber fell short was that for yeasr the difference between a $500 and a $1500 pistol had more to do with appearance that ability. Buying the back page ad in nearly every gun magazine for a decade did more for Kimber sales than customer testimonials or shooter experience ever did. |
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IL, USA
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Posted: 11/13/2020 6:31:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Years ago, many new, in the sales case Kimbers had light surface rust. Everyone wondered how it was that a stainless barrel could rust so easily. Deep digging discovered that the barrels on those early models were not stainless, and could easily rust, etc. The more recent offerings do state the use of stainless.
So, my annoyance with Kimber has been their use of iffy materials, methods. I currently have a 2012 Stainless TLE. It seems much improved. It is enjoyable to use...except, currently, no ammo.. 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 12/28/2020 12:28:23 AM EDT
[#49]
I don't hate Kimber but I just broke the thumb safety on my Target II in .38 Super. I have owned it since about 2008 and this is the first major issue it has given me. I generally shoot about 300-500 rounds through it a year. I have a Wilson Bullet Proof thumb safety in bound. It was definitely a MIM part. It snapped on the post as I was shooting with a thumb over safety grip.
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Posted: 2/9/2021 3:35:33 PM EDT
[#50]
Honestly at this point I don't know what 1911 you can buy that people wont talk shit about. Even people with perfectly reliable upper tier $3k models get trashed talked for spending the amount they did. Just buy what you want, and if it runs it runs.
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