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Posted: 1/28/2023 1:52:24 PM EDT
Moving in a few months but until then, is 9mm good enough for pitbulls or should I switch to 45acp?
9mm I carry a g19 with 147gr hst 45 acp I have a ton of 230gr speer gold dots but I would probably buy a glock in 45acp if I switch to it for carry. Before anyone says 12ga or 556 etc, I agree 100% but they are not applicable to my current situation. As for 10mm I do not own one. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 2:07:00 PM EDT
[#1]
A pitt's paws are pretty small. I would get him a small frame 9, otherwise he'll keep dropping it from recoil.
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USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 2:09:21 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxAthlete42: A pitt's paws are pretty small. I would get him a small frame 9, otherwise he'll keep dropping it from recoil.  Attached File |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 2:58:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: D_J]
[#3]
[Deleted]
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 3:06:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Cops and ATF agents don't seem to have any problems killing Pitbulls with 9mm.
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WV, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 3:09:45 PM EDT
[#5]
9mm should do well on them. Blast them in the head and they won't be biting anyone.
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Posted: 1/28/2023 4:41:54 PM EDT
[#6]
yes
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ND, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 5:54:56 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Kokodude: Cops and ATF agents don't seem to have any problems killing Pitbulls with 9mm. Or Labs, Yorkie's, Collies, Golden Retrievers, women holding babies, wait that last one was 308, nevermind. 
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Posted: 1/28/2023 6:07:41 PM EDT
[#8]
Get a .88 Mag.
It shoots through schools. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/28/2023 6:09:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Yes. 9mm has killed plenty of deer and black bears, it will ruin a pitbull's brain just fine.
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Posted: 1/28/2023 6:23:01 PM EDT
[#10]
When I had sheep I put them down with .22, between the eyes. 9 mm will do a pit bull without any trouble.
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NH, USA
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Posted: 1/29/2023 7:15:49 AM EDT
[#11]
Like anything else...
It' all about shot placement. |
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Posted: 1/29/2023 7:49:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Originally Posted By Forlorn-Hope: Moving in a few months but until then, is 9mm good enough for pitbulls or should I switch to 45acp? 9mm I carry a g19 with 147gr hst 45 acp I have a ton of 230gr speer gold dots but I would probably buy a glock in 45acp if I switch to it for carry. Before anyone says 12ga or 556 etc, I agree 100% but they are not applicable to my current situation. As for 10mm I do not own one. |
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Posted: 1/29/2023 7:52:47 AM EDT
[#13]
I know a .38spl works against a Pit Bull. .45 is probably unnecessary.
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Posted: 1/29/2023 11:11:31 AM EDT
[#14]
Few years ago I was visiting a friend that has some huge Russian bear dog. (150 lbs plus) It lunged at me and thankfully the owner caught him. I was carrying a 9mm high power. He was still struggling to get at me and my thought at the time was I sure wished I had my 45 with 230 gr HP’s.
Yeah, yeah. Everyone has pronounced 9mm to be as good as or better than .45acp. I’m sure they believe that. I also know that EMOTIONALLY I wanted that bigger bullet. I immediately retired the 9 for carry and have carried the .45 every day since. Fun experiment to try. Start a thread on bear protection and ask if you should carry a .45…or a 9mm. ONLY those options. |
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Posted: 1/29/2023 11:23:12 AM EDT
[#15]
Just remember that 1 hit works better than 10 misses.
So figure out which one you miss with the most, and leave that gun at home. IMHO YMMV |
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Posted: 1/30/2023 5:58:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: Originally Posted By Forlorn-Hope: Moving in a few months but until then, is 9mm good enough for pitbulls or should I switch to 45acp? 9mm I carry a g19 with 147gr hst 45 acp I have a ton of 230gr speer gold dots but I would probably buy a glock in 45acp if I switch to it for carry. Before anyone says 12ga or 556 etc, I agree 100% but they are not applicable to my current situation. As for 10mm I do not own one. Ive killed multiple deers with both. 45 is much better. |
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Posted: 1/30/2023 6:10:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Ive killed multiple deers with both. 45 is much better. |
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Posted: 1/30/2023 6:11:39 PM EDT
[#18]
Sounds like you need to buy a 10mm.
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Posted: 1/30/2023 8:37:02 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hsvhobbit: Few years ago I was visiting a friend that has some huge Russian bear dog. (150 lbs plus) It lunged at me and thankfully the owner caught him. I was carrying a 9mm high power. He was still struggling to get at me and my thought at the time was I sure wished I had my 45 with 230 gr HP's. Yeah, yeah. Everyone has pronounced 9mm to be as good as or better than .45acp. I'm sure they believe that. I also know that EMOTIONALLY I wanted that bigger bullet. I immediately retired the 9 for carry and have carried the .45 every day since. Fun experiment to try. Start a thread on bear protection and ask if you should carry a .45 or a 9mm. ONLY those options. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 5:58:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: triburst1]
[#20]
Worked for me. 124 grain +p Gold Dot.
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Posted: 1/31/2023 8:51:35 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: Okay, I'll bite. In what ways is 45 "much better"? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: Originally Posted By 03RN: Ive killed multiple deers with both. 45 is much better. It's much better at breaking bone and continuing to do damage. I've had 9mm gold dot fail to penetrate a deer shoulder. That doesn't mean 9mm sucks. When I carry a .38 I load a 9mm 147gr @950fps. A 9mm should be fine vs a 90lbs dog too. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 9:20:09 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 9:31:11 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 10:22:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 10:28:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: triburst1]
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 11:17:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Colt653]
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. yep SOFD went from 45, to 40, to 9mm higher capacity less recoil, I get it my going to the city CCW is 18 rounds of HST my woods gun is usually something larger but what percentage of badguys are they killing with pistols vs longarms ? the 45acp is twice the bullet weight and larger diameter like RN posted, i have killed big midwestern deer with 357m, 44m, 45acp, 45super larger bullets make more damage, more blood loss, better blood trails, more effective on breaking bones, etc when momma bear is ripping your face off, you may begin to give zero fucks what larry vickers and FBI barbie choose |
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USA
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Posted: 1/31/2023 11:28:54 AM EDT
[#27]
I believe that would be more than adequate. 380 and 22 have done the job more times than any of us will know. I might be wrong, but I suspect that the report alone will be enough to send most dogs packing.
A friend that lived in Belize told me that merely reaching for a rock was enough to send local dogs running the opposite direction. I once stomped the noggin of a dog with the heal of cycling shoe and was never bothered by it again. As my friend says, "they learn the rules of the road quickly." |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2023 11:43:12 AM EDT
[#28]
I would carry the biggest, most powerful handgun you could carry. When I carry a 9mm for pitbulls or any other dangerous animal I choose heavy +p or +p+, like underwood 147gr +p+ bonded or 147gr +p hardcast, or Speer golddot 124 +P.
I've used 124gr +P golddots to finish a large boar hog, and a few whitetail bucks but I would want something much larger as a primary or to stop an attack. I've been eyeing a model 69 .44mag and the new Glock 20 gen5, I really want both. 
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Posted: 1/31/2023 1:22:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Sidearms are almost never used in a military/combat setting and if you are using your sidearm you are having a really bad day. If you have switched to a pistol away from your rifle something has happened that your rifle is out of commission or you had absolutely no choice but to switch temporarily. The "SF guys" will also tell you their primary arm was their rifle and they are not switching to a pistol it is only there as backup. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 1:36:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Individuals can not just pick what they want. The organization picked the g19 with a lot of input from SF in that case with a lot of guys wanting to keep the 1911. They switched because they are cheaper to buy, maintain, and shoot. All those guys are all carrying long guns and a lighter gun that will almost never be used is also a benefit when they have 100lbs of gear on. The key to stopping the threat is hitting the cns system. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 1:50:06 PM EDT
[#31]
It's a dog. Not a grizzly, elephant or lion.
Whatever round you would use on a GSD, Maligator, Goldendoodle or Airdale will be sufficient — or whatever your neighborhood fantasy killing thirst may be. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 2:44:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: triburst1]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Individuals can not just pick what they want. The organization picked the g19 with a lot of input from SF in that case with a lot of guys wanting to keep the 1911. They switched because they are cheaper to buy, maintain, and shoot. All those guys are all carrying long guns and a lighter gun that will almost never be used is also a benefit when they have 100lbs of gear on. The key to stopping the threat is hitting the cns system. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Individuals can not just pick what they want. The organization picked the g19 with a lot of input from SF in that case with a lot of guys wanting to keep the 1911. They switched because they are cheaper to buy, maintain, and shoot. All those guys are all carrying long guns and a lighter gun that will almost never be used is also a benefit when they have 100lbs of gear on. The key to stopping the threat is hitting the cns system. I never said anything about individuals. Units with nearly unlimited budgets, who’ve picked weapons like the HK 416, suddenly got hyper budget conscious and picked the Glock simply because it was cheaper? Then proceeded to upfit and customize it at a cost of several times the actual pistol? This just keeps getting weirder...  |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 3:20:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 03RN]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: I never said anything about individuals. Units with nearly unlimited budgets, who’ve picked weapons like the HK 416, suddenly got hyper budget conscious and picked the Glock simply because it was cheaper? Then proceeded to upfit and customize it at a cost of several times the actual pistol? This just keeps getting weirder... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Individuals can not just pick what they want. The organization picked the g19 with a lot of input from SF in that case with a lot of guys wanting to keep the 1911. They switched because they are cheaper to buy, maintain, and shoot. All those guys are all carrying long guns and a lighter gun that will almost never be used is also a benefit when they have 100lbs of gear on. The key to stopping the threat is hitting the cns system. I never said anything about individuals. Units with nearly unlimited budgets, who’ve picked weapons like the HK 416, suddenly got hyper budget conscious and picked the Glock simply because it was cheaper? Then proceeded to upfit and customize it at a cost of several times the actual pistol? This just keeps getting weirder... Yes you did "Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose". You didn't say teams or units. And even if a unit wanted a vp9 or m&p or whatever they just can't switch because they want it. They don't have unlimited budgets. A tertiary sidearm is one of the least significant peices of gear in the military. As much as I like 1911s I've also done small boat raids in the jungle and beach assaults. Give me a g19 every time in case I don't have time to bust rust for 3 days. The weight and resistance to rust is why I carried a g19 for 10 years while I was at sea. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 5:40:06 PM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 1/31/2023 5:45:52 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Yes you did "Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose". You didn't say teams or units. And even if a unit wanted a vp9 or m&p or whatever they just can't switch because they want it. They don't have unlimited budgets. A tertiary sidearm is one of the least significant peices of gear in the military. As much as I like 1911s I've also done small boat raids in the jungle and beach assaults. Give me a g19 every time in case I don't have time to bust rust for 3 days. The weight and resistance to rust is why I carried a g19 for 10 years while I was at sea. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Individuals can not just pick what they want. The organization picked the g19 with a lot of input from SF in that case with a lot of guys wanting to keep the 1911. They switched because they are cheaper to buy, maintain, and shoot. All those guys are all carrying long guns and a lighter gun that will almost never be used is also a benefit when they have 100lbs of gear on. The key to stopping the threat is hitting the cns system. I never said anything about individuals. Units with nearly unlimited budgets, who’ve picked weapons like the HK 416, suddenly got hyper budget conscious and picked the Glock simply because it was cheaper? Then proceeded to upfit and customize it at a cost of several times the actual pistol? This just keeps getting weirder... Yes you did "Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose". You didn't say teams or units. And even if a unit wanted a vp9 or m&p or whatever they just can't switch because they want it. They don't have unlimited budgets. A tertiary sidearm is one of the least significant peices of gear in the military. As much as I like 1911s I've also done small boat raids in the jungle and beach assaults. Give me a g19 every time in case I don't have time to bust rust for 3 days. The weight and resistance to rust is why I carried a g19 for 10 years while I was at sea. By guys I meant “the guys in the units who make these decisions.” I assumed we all know that they don’t just all pick out their individual weapons like some video game. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 5:53:58 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: 45 ACP, baby! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2261/95696294_10220099224483199_3143361876746-2692853.JPG It just wasn’t his time. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 5:59:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bradd_D: 45 ACP, baby! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2261/95696294_10220099224483199_3143361876746-2692853.JPG What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 6:00:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: garr]
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 11C1P: Or Labs, Yorkie's, Collies, Golden Retrievers, women holding babies, wait that last one was Fixed it for you, scumbag jack boot thug Lon Horiuchi felt that .308 wasn't enough gun for women holding infants! |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 6:20:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyer5: What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyer5: Originally Posted By Bradd_D: 45 ACP, baby! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2261/95696294_10220099224483199_3143361876746-2692853.JPG What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? You should see the pic of my bil after being shot in the head with a 762x54 |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 6:22:02 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: By guys I meant “the guys in the units who make these decisions.” I assumed we all know that they don’t just all pick out their individual weapons like some video game. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By triburst1: Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By Creature: People STILL think that 45ACP is better than 9mm? it is go out and kill something besides a fucking block of jello That raises a question: Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose, been switching to 9mm for the past decade? They want to be less efficient at their jobs? Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. That’s simply not the case with specialized units that have indeed picked out their own new guns, mainly Glock 19s, as their primary sidearms. They switched because the 9mm holds more rounds in a more compact package, and in real world performance, there is little to no difference between 9mm, .40 and .45. The key to effective use of the sidearm is rapid, multiple hits to vital targets. The 9mm allows more rapid hits, and more rounds between mag changes. That is not my opinion. Many former SF guys are on record in books, podcasts and YouTube explaining it. Individuals can not just pick what they want. The organization picked the g19 with a lot of input from SF in that case with a lot of guys wanting to keep the 1911. They switched because they are cheaper to buy, maintain, and shoot. All those guys are all carrying long guns and a lighter gun that will almost never be used is also a benefit when they have 100lbs of gear on. The key to stopping the threat is hitting the cns system. I never said anything about individuals. Units with nearly unlimited budgets, who’ve picked weapons like the HK 416, suddenly got hyper budget conscious and picked the Glock simply because it was cheaper? Then proceeded to upfit and customize it at a cost of several times the actual pistol? This just keeps getting weirder... Yes you did "Why have all the guys who kill people for a living, and can pick any pistol they choose". You didn't say teams or units. And even if a unit wanted a vp9 or m&p or whatever they just can't switch because they want it. They don't have unlimited budgets. A tertiary sidearm is one of the least significant peices of gear in the military. As much as I like 1911s I've also done small boat raids in the jungle and beach assaults. Give me a g19 every time in case I don't have time to bust rust for 3 days. The weight and resistance to rust is why I carried a g19 for 10 years while I was at sea. By guys I meant “the guys in the units who make these decisions.” I assumed we all know that they don’t just all pick out their individual weapons like some video game. Ok, so then you understand that they don't actually pick any pistol that they want. Like you stated. |
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Posted: 1/31/2023 6:26:27 PM EDT
[#41]
SF didn't just get to pick the Glock 19. They had to justify it because big Army was issuing the Beretta M9. Their justification was that the Glock was a compact and that they had a need for it.
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 1/31/2023 8:44:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyer5: What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? If you know about hand loading and typical powder charges, 5 grains of powder ( typical powders used in 45- bullseye, unique 231 etc ) that 5 grains is about a typical charge for standard pressure 45 ammo. In fact, for a while, I used the same powder charge in 357,9mm and 45 to simplify things. 5.5 grains unique across the board |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 8:43:18 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Because they don't actually pick whatever they want and those whose actually kill people for their job do so with long guns or radios. A sidearm is almost just extra weight. The switch to 9mm has been because of cheaper lighter guns and bullets that do work pretty well. Nobody switched because 9mm is better. Classic example is ‘mil-spec’ anything. Typically the cheapest gear that performs acceptably, not necessarily the best. |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2023 8:44:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captain127: If you know about hand loading and typical powder charges, 5 grains of powder ( typical powders used in 45- bullseye, unique 231 etc ) that 5 grains is about a typical charge for standard pressure 45 ammo. In fact, for a while, I used the same powder charge in 357,9mm and 45 to simplify things. 5.5 grains unique across the board Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By captain127: Originally Posted By Flyer5: What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? If you know about hand loading and typical powder charges, 5 grains of powder ( typical powders used in 45- bullseye, unique 231 etc ) that 5 grains is about a typical charge for standard pressure 45 ammo. In fact, for a while, I used the same powder charge in 357,9mm and 45 to simplify things. 5.5 grains unique across the board Yep, 5 grains of 231 is my plinking load for 9MM and .45. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:19:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ArizonaRifleman]
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyer5: What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Flyer5: Originally Posted By Bradd_D: 45 ACP, baby! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2261/95696294_10220099224483199_3143361876746-2692853.JPG What was there like 5 grains of powder and a primer behind it? 45 aCp bAbY1 We don't even know if that was even .45 ACP, just speculation. We don't even know if the victim was wearing a motorcycle helmet or not that ate the energy even, or if that was a reloaded round, etc. It's easier to be edgy than to be factual in tech I guess. Meanwhile muh 9 miluhmetah death ray fallacy can't even pernitrate through clothing. But it's cult would have you believe otherwise. Whoops, a link to show a fallacy being exposed as another myth that a 9 isn't a do all. As for what caliber, maybe we should find out what this department's officer was using just to make sure that you're not using it either. But. Muh. Nine. Feelz. Maybe hardcast 9 will do if 9 is all the OP has. I'd probably want a 40 hardcast if it was up to me though. But to answer your question, that's what most folks use in charge weight wanting standard pressure as a starting point for most powders. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:28:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sorionc]
[#46]
Cam says bring a rifle.
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:32:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: 45 aCp bAbY1 We don't even know if that was even .45 ACP, just speculation. We don't even know if the victim was wearing a motorcycle helmet or not that ate the energy even, or if that was a reloaded round, etc. It's easier to be edgy than to be factual in tech I guess. Meanwhile muh 9 miluhmetah death ray fallacy can't even pernitrate through clothing. But it's cult would have you believe otherwise. Whoops, a link to show a fallacy being exposed as another myth that a 9 isn't a do all. As for what caliber, maybe we should find out what this department's officer was using just to make sure that you're not using it either. But. Muh. Nine. Feelz. Maybe hardcast 9 will do if 9 is all the OP has. I'd probably want a 40 hardcast if it was up to me though. But to answer your question, that's what most folks use in charge weight wanting standard pressure as a starting point for most powders. |
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Posted: 2/1/2023 9:55:07 PM EDT
[#48]
147 grain HST is my carry load so I hope so.
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Posted: 2/2/2023 1:12:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ArizonaRifleman: 45 aCp bAbY1 We don't even know if that was even .45 ACP, just speculation. We don't even know if the victim was wearing a motorcycle helmet or not that ate the energy even, or if that was a reloaded round, etc. It's easier to be edgy than to be factual in tech I guess. Meanwhile muh 9 miluhmetah death ray fallacy can't even pernitrate through clothing. But it's cult would have you believe otherwise. Whoops, a link to show a fallacy being exposed as another myth that a 9 isn't a do all. As for what caliber, maybe we should find out what this department's officer was using just to make sure that you're not using it either. But. Muh. Nine. Feelz. Maybe hardcast 9 will do if 9 is all the OP has. I'd probably want a 40 hardcast if it was up to me though. But to answer your question, that's what most folks use in charge weight wanting standard pressure as a starting point for most powders. A more reasonable explanation to how this happened is many of these criminals carry their pistol in their pants around for long periods of times, probably use whatever ammo they find/have on hand not researching what is the best carry ammo, and who knows how old this ammo was. It could have been a full power load but the powder had degraded from sitting in his grandpa's closet since the end of WW2, been exposed to humidity, or the primer did not initiate a good solid ignition only burning a small amount of the powder to force the bullet to leave the barrel and leave this guy with a headache. Long ago I used to work at a PD(not a cop) one of the detectives there showed me something that leads me to leave this explanation. They were going through the firearms and ammunition for disposal him and I were good friends and he knew I was into the hobby. He handed me a small handful of pistol ammo and said shake those and listen to the rounds explaining they sounded funny. Normally when you shake ammo it sounds kind of like a shaker these were odd but I said I bet they are fully charged and no space in the case for the powder to move. Him being curious pulled a bullet with his multitool from the case and the powder inside was a clump laying on the side of the case. I have no idea what would happen if they were shot maybe they would go off normally, maybe squib, barely penetrate, or click no bang. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 1:20:49 PM EDT
[#50]
My Ruger LCP with Black talon .380 was enough for a pit bull that was mauling my goats and chickens.
one shot in the chest area and he was limping, another shot to the head and he stopped his attack. Turns out a neighbor abandoned him to his devices weeks ago and he was living feral. Good chickens and goats...... Sheriff did nothing despite finding a microchip. |
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