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Posted: 5/9/2022 8:52:24 PM EDT
[#1]
RMR lenses crack too.
Plastic bends vs breaks. Maybe go cheaper. DPPs are relatively fragile too. Moral of the story is all optics can break if they get smacked just right. The force experienced by my 507 is exponentially higher than yours experienced...every time I pull the trigger. 10mm nuclear goodness. It has handled that a thousand times. Still good. |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 9:06:32 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 5/9/2022 9:15:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 9:18:08 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RMR lenses crack too. Plastic bends vs breaks. Maybe go cheaper. DPPs are relatively fragile too. Moral of the story is all optics can break if they get smacked just right. The force experienced by my 507 is exponentially higher than yours experienced...every time I pull the trigger. 10mm nuclear goodness. It has handled that a thousand times. Still good. Thanks. As I said. Have a bunch of these sights and shooting them has been fine. I think 12ga slugs are not inferior to 10mm. But just the right small bump, at just the wrong moment.... I'm just saying I will make sure I'm not depending on one of these when it counts. |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 9:18:53 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hold out for the P-2, I have the P1 and I don't like the battery life. It is a tiny battery, and I get no where near the claimed battery life. Like weeks, not 1.5 years on setting six or whatever they claim. Thank you both! I'll look into them |
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Posted: 5/9/2022 9:20:38 PM EDT
[#6]
Saw an Eotech XPS do the same. Rifle fell over from a leaning rest against a bench, cracked the glass. My AR with Aimpoint Pro was knocked off a waist high bench and landed on the optic, zero shifted a few inches but was perfectly functional and rezeroed. The open lens type setup seems more prone to damage than tubes.
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Posted: 5/9/2022 10:57:19 PM EDT
[#7]
Holosun is Chicom hobby grade optics.
If you want battle grade red dot optics, get an Aimpoint P.R.0. Don't be like me and learn the hard way by lining the range trash can with Chicom junk optics. I put an Aimpoint Comp or PRO on everything now. Aimpoints just take a beating and stay on target. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 12:42:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Try an Aimpoint M2/M3/ACO/PRO or whatever in a Vortex low 30mm ring mount, with the rubber protective cover on the outside.
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Posted: 5/10/2022 8:44:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Thanks. Looks like I need to check out the ACRO (P2) for pistol.
Less love for RMR (durability) compared to Chicom-sun? |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 8:58:46 AM EDT
[#10]
I have about 6 RMRs and 5 Holosuns. Get the type 2 Rmr of course if you are considering an Rmr. I have a couple type 1s that the flicker is getting worse one. I haven't dropped either an Rmr or holosun, but the design of the ears of an Rmr is better.
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Posted: 5/10/2022 9:32:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RMR lenses crack too. Plastic bends vs breaks. Maybe go cheaper. DPPs are relatively fragile too. Moral of the story is all optics can break if they get smacked just right. The force experienced by my 507 is exponentially higher than yours experienced...every time I pull the trigger. 10mm nuclear goodness. It has handled that a thousand times. Still good. This. It's a glass lens. It's not like foreign made lens are cheap brittle glass and American made lenses are tempered with FREEDOM into unbreakable lenses. People are unrealistic with their expectations on how stuff works and the basic laws of physics. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 9:34:00 AM EDT
[#12]
Mine fell out of my vehicle onto the concrete. It had the tiniest chip that was barely visible.
I sent a pic to Holosun and they immediately emailed me a return label. I came down with Covid a few days later and ended up not feeling well for about a month. I shipped it when I felt better and had a brand new red dot within 4 days. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 10:42:22 AM EDT
[#13]
Would the titanium body Holosuns be more robust?
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Posted: 5/10/2022 11:01:15 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine fell out of my vehicle onto the concrete. It had the tiniest chip that was barely visible. I sent a pic to Holosun and they immediately emailed me a return label. I came down with Covid a few days later and ended up not feeling well for about a month. I shipped it when I felt better and had a brand new red dot within 4 days. Honestly not sure who OP talked to. I had a beat to shit 503gu, aluminum chips, etc. Couple hundred rounds of slugs and 00 Buck (400ish) I had the threads on one hole strip out when putting it on a new mount probably to my own error. They sent me a return label prepaid and sent me a brand new optic. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 11:03:16 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Would the titanium body Holosuns be more robust? Heres the problem honestly. A RMR style optic isnt a good fit for heavier long guns imo. Go with a tube style optic for these and they will be more robust. OP said he had his on a shotgun? |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 11:40:09 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heres the problem honestly. A RMR style optic isnt a good fit for heavier long guns imo. Go with a tube style optic for these and they will be more robust. OP said he had his on a shotgun? Exactly there’s no magic here. You can’t have small and light be as tough as a heavy tube optic. Even tough scopes can get damaged from tipping over on a long gun it’s a lot of weight. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 12:14:36 PM EDT
[#17]
A lot of factors go into if you crack the glass or not. A pistol is less weight behind the impact versus a rifle/shotgun, the angle the sight is hit at (top vs bottom vs top corner), height of drop, impact distance(G-force over time), and what it is dropped on.
As far as I know NO sight especially the pistol optics are completely invulnerable. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 12:46:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heres the problem honestly. A RMR style optic isnt a good fit for heavier long guns imo. Go with a tube style optic for these and they will be more robust. OP said he had his on a shotgun? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Would the titanium body Holosuns be more robust? Heres the problem honestly. A RMR style optic isnt a good fit for heavier long guns imo. Go with a tube style optic for these and they will be more robust. OP said he had his on a shotgun? Quoted: Exactly there’s no magic here. You can’t have small and light be as tough as a heavy tube optic. Even tough scopes can get damaged from tipping over on a long gun it’s a lot of weight. I agree. Generally, in the trade-space of lightweight vs. robust, you can't have both, except maybe by adding a lot of cost. I have one of the early Primary Arms Aimpoint micro clones that has been moved around from long gun to long gun. That thing has been abused and still functions 100%. Tube style red dots can be made tougher at a much lower price point. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 2:40:06 PM EDT
[#19]
I had multiple emails back and forth with Aaron at Holosun. Warehouse supervisor. They sent me an RMA and I sent it in.
It took them a month and a half to even inspect it, at which point they informed that that they don't cover damage incurred during "normal use." So its "normal" for a Holosun to crack if dropped 1.5' onto a wood floor. Yes on a long gun, but 1.5' onto wood is not more than you would get from a waist high drop on a pistol. It was a trivial impact. You could say it struck just right (just wrong?) but still... I have never dropped one of these before, so my failure rate on drop-test is 100%. I wouldn't say I'm asking for magic. Would any of us buy a handgun known to (even rarely) become completely un-aimable after a 1.5' drop? No way. People freak out and slag Sig when their P365 has a FTE after 1000+ rounds. If the consensus here is that all pistol optics are this fragile then I guess pistol optics are not for me. I generally agree about tube style red dots on long guns. I've beat mine up and they have never failed. And they are easier to mount QR so you can keep aiming your BUIS if they shatter. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 2:47:46 PM EDT
[#20]
As to why a 507C on a shotgun? I used a 3Gun gear mount to put is on a moss berg 930 due to the low mount height (matching the cheek weld) and avoiding the need for the weight of a rail/mount.
It worked pretty slick, but I'll just go back to the fiber optic. That worked fine before all this nonsense. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 2:51:53 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the consensus here is that all pistol optics are this fragile then I guess pistol optics are not for me. Then I guess they are not for you. In other news, I had a Toyota that was an unreliable piece of shit that wound up being a legal lemon. So I guess Toyotas are shit then? There are dangers of sample sizes of n=1. There have been very large scale tests and countless thousands of these optics ran hard. The reliability of Holosun optics isn't really in dispute. You can certainly criticize their country of origin but they are not crap. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 3:00:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then I guess they are not for you. In other news, I had a Toyota that was an unreliable piece of shit that wound up being a legal lemon. So I guess Toyotas are shit then? There are dangers of sample sizes of n=1. There have been very large scale tests and countless thousands of these optics ran hard. The reliability of Holosun optics isn't really in dispute. You can certainly criticize their country of origin but they are not crap. Toyotas that are lemons fall under warranty. According to Holosun this one was not a "lemon" and it's normal for them of fail under this kind of use. They would know best the results of countless thousands of uses wouldn't they? And I've seen numerous reports just like mine in the reviews. It's not a trivial failure rate. Maybe they are no more crap than other pistol optics. But cream-of-the-crap is still crap. Anyway, and seriously, thanks for the input. I just wanted to get everyone's take on normal durability of pistol optics and if there was a standout winner. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 3:28:20 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Toyotas that are lemons fall under warranty. According to Holosun this one was not a "lemon" and it's normal for them of fail under this kind of use. They would know best the results of countless thousands of uses wouldn't they? And I've seen numerous reports just like mine in the reviews. It's not a trivial failure rate. Maybe they are no more crap than other pistol optics. But cream-of-the-crap is still crap. Anyway, and seriously, thanks for the input. I just wanted to get everyone's take on normal durability of pistol optics and if there was a standout winner. Dropping something and breaking it is not the same as being a lemon. That’s more than a stretch. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 3:31:54 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dropping something and breaking it is not the same as being a lemon. That’s more than a stretch. Exactly my point and why I'm concerned about my remaining 5 Holosun pistols sights. It was not a lemon. They can be that fragile normally. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 3:41:58 PM EDT
[#25]
if you had bought a vortex
you would have already received your free replacement and been shooting again |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 4:11:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: if you had bought a vortex you would have already received your free replacement and been shooting again Yep!! I love the Vortex customer service and warranty. When I went Holosun I was swayed by features (shake awake, Vulcan circle). But sounds like they would be as prone to fail as any. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 4:18:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Toyotas that are lemons fall under warranty. According to Holosun this one was not a "lemon" and it's normal for them of fail under this kind of use. They would know best the results of countless thousands of uses wouldn't they? And I've seen numerous reports just like mine in the reviews. It's not a trivial failure rate. Maybe they are no more crap than other pistol optics. But cream-of-the-crap is still crap. Anyway, and seriously, thanks for the input. I just wanted to get everyone's take on normal durability of pistol optics and if there was a standout winner. Quoted: Dropping something and breaking it is not the same as being a lemon. That’s more than a stretch. Sounds like your issue isn't that it failed and wasn't covered under warranty. It's that it failed period. So, is Toyota garbage that it failed? Or not because it was covered under warranty? Sounds like the former, in which case you think Toyota sucks. Or maybe instead you concede that a single sample size is meaningless. In a which case I agree. Plenty of people drop their Holosuns. They survive. Many people, including Sage Dynamics, drop their sacred Trijicons, and they break. Crap happens. Crap happens to great rifle optics too. Nothing is infallible. You got unlucky is all. Nothing more, nothing less. |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 4:34:51 PM EDT
[#28]
It’s that it failed that easily and Holosun (and people here pretty much) feel like that is normal.
In your analogy, if the wheel on a Toyota occasionally came flying off when you went over a speed bump, and everyone accepted that is just what Toyota’s do, then Toyota’s would suck. I’m saying I’m not able now to trust Holosuns no matter anyone else’s experience.. And started the thread to see if there was a clearly more durable optic. Seems like that’s a No. Again, thanks all for the input! |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 5:01:00 PM EDT
[#29]
Hey @climbslc , stinks to have it break on you for an 18" fall.
Is the optic still usable with the crack in the lense? |
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Posted: 5/10/2022 6:08:21 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's that it failed that easily and Holosun (and people here pretty much) feel like that is normal. In your analogy, if the wheel on a Toyota occasionally came flying off when you went over a speed bump, and everyone accepted that is just what Toyota's do, then Toyota's would suck. I'm saying I'm not able now to trust Holosuns no matter anyone else's experience.. And started the thread to see if there was a clearly more durable optic. Seems like that's a No. Again, thanks all for the input! I wouldnt put one on a rifle or shotgun, for the simple reason that there are more durable options that come an acceptable weight penalty to me. Whereas for the pistol you're kinda locked into a micro size red dot, aside from some of those race gun mounts where guys are using T2s or whatever  Sometimes it's just how they hit the deck too, just the wrong angle/spot. For example here's my first mrds still going strong despite any number of hard impacts including hitting the ground and bending the housing, and the FF3 is generally considered inferior and less durable than the Holosun and RMR. I won't change this one since I got the slide milled for this footprint lo these many thousands of rounds ago, but I did switch to the Holosun/RMR cut on later pistols Long story short, mrds on pistols (with backup irons, which I used just last night when my battery died in this very gun, in fact) and heavier duty dots on long guns (for me).  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 12:54:54 AM EDT
[#31]
OP has a poor understanding of physics.
The power of the impact equals mass times velocity. An object doesn't need to drop far to reach max velocity dependant on the weight. A basic bitch 870 weighs 7lbs which is more than 3 times the weight of a 2lbs Glock 17. Even if you dropped a optic on a Glock 17 at 12' high, it will probably land with less force than an optic on a shotgun at 1.5 feet..... |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 1:04:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Don't drop your optics. Problem solved.
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Posted: 5/11/2022 7:24:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Holosuns are cheap chicom optics. Lots of fanboyism because they're cheap.
I've used RMRs for years, dropped them, whacked them on door jams, cars etc. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 11:03:08 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holosuns are cheap chicom optics. Lots of fanboyism because they're cheap. I've used RMRs for years, dropped them, whacked them on door jams, cars etc. 100% Agree. The few guns I don't give a shit about have holosuns, my actual carry guns get RMRs. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 11:54:29 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Holosuns are cheap chicom optics. Lots of fanboyism because they're cheap. I've used RMRs for years, dropped them, whacked them on door jams, cars etc. Bullshit. Stop spreading your ignorance. Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics is the authority on red dots and says Holosun is duty grade. OP, you dropped it and it broke, your fault. Normally it wouldn't break but shit happens  Holosun 507C |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 12:19:27 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit. Stop spreading your ignorance. Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics is the authority on red dots and says Holosun is duty grade. OP, you dropped it and it broke, your fault. Normally it wouldn't break but shit happens  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOyq90oa-QQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Holosuns are cheap chicom optics. Lots of fanboyism because they're cheap. I've used RMRs for years, dropped them, whacked them on door jams, cars etc. Bullshit. Stop spreading your ignorance. Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics is the authority on red dots and says Holosun is duty grade. OP, you dropped it and it broke, your fault. Normally it wouldn't break but shit happens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuOyq90oa-QBullshit, how about post the video of his holosun ejecting the lense out of the optic. Cheap Chinese shit has cheap quality control. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 12:27:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit, how about post the video of his holosun ejecting the lense out of the optic. Cheap Chinese shit has cheap quality control. Sure thing. We can also link the video of him dropping an SRO and it shattering if you'd like.  He uses all dots and tortures them all. He says Holosun is Duty grade, same as Trijicon. If you want to buy Trijicon then cool. But that doesn't make Holosun junk. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 12:36:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Notice the backup flip sights:
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Posted: 5/11/2022 12:45:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sure thing. We can also link the video of him dropping an SRO and it shattering if you'd like. He uses all dots and tortures them all. He says Holosun is Duty grade, same as Trijicon. If you want to buy Trijicon then cool. But that doesn't make Holosun junk. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bullshit, how about post the video of his holosun ejecting the lense out of the optic. Cheap Chinese shit has cheap quality control. Sure thing. We can also link the video of him dropping an SRO and it shattering if you'd like. He uses all dots and tortures them all. He says Holosun is Duty grade, same as Trijicon. If you want to buy Trijicon then cool. But that doesn't make Holosun junk. Go ahead, the sro is not the RMR and not know for it's ruggedness. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 3:18:34 PM EDT
[#40]
 Trijicon Type 2 RMR at 20K The Sage Dynamics videos sold me on the RMR. I can't find the one I first looked at, as I recall the first time he used it to rack the slide was on the tailgate of a pickup. I backed it up 2-3x and looked again thinking "Did he really just slam the heck out of that optic on a tailgate". After watching the whole video I felt very foolish for backing it up as THAT IS ALL HE DOES OVER AND OVER is slam that thing on anything and everything to rack the slide. I think the video I linked above he uses a concrete bench (at about 49s). Does it over and over for 20k rounds and it doesn't break or come loose (pretty sure his final review was that mounting screws never came loose and I don't think it ever lost zero). That sold me. RMRcc on my p365xl. Looking to mill p226 slide and I will be getting an RMR for that also. If you want DURABLE, then ,wow, it is hard to beat the RMR.... |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 3:31:50 PM EDT
[#41]
But what I want to know is, did the HOLOSUN still work after the glass was cracked?
Yeah, I get it, you don't want to have to look at the crack. But did it still WORK? |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 3:42:16 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But what I want to know is, did the HOLOSUN still work after the glass was cracked? Yeah, I get it, you don't want to have to look at the crack. But did it still WORK? Sage Dynamics tested the 507C. Passed the one handed manipulation test (smacking it from the front to rack the slide) over 500 smacks. Then survived four drops from shoulder height onto concrete, hood first. Held zero. Got his seal approval as duty grade. Funny that he says the lens distorts though. Not as bad as RMR but not as good as the DPP. Maybe unconscious bias at work. 
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Posted: 5/11/2022 3:47:38 PM EDT
[#43]
The Los Angeles County Sheriffs department which is probably the largest RDS authorizing agency in the country has Holosun and Trijicon approved for duty use. The Holosun is a duty grade optic without a doubt. Maybe it is LESS sturdy than the RMR but it will hold up fine if you don't overly abuse it like OPs example.
The Holosun has a distinct advantages over the RMR in that you do not have to remove the optic once a year to rezero when you change your battery. |
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Posted: 5/11/2022 6:45:52 PM EDT
[#44]
Meh
I had an EOtech 512 shit the bed after the first THREE rounds I fired through the rifle it was mounted on.To EOtech’s credit, they fixed it for free even though it was way out of their stated warranty period. I did have to pay shipping TO them. I just crammed it into a Priority Mail box
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Posted: 5/12/2022 4:19:20 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP has a poor understanding of physics. The power of the impact equals mass times velocity. An object doesn't need to drop far to reach max velocity dependant on the weight. A basic bitch 870 weighs 7lbs which is more than 3 times the weight of a 2lbs Glock 17. Even if you dropped a optic on a Glock 17 at 12' high, it will probably land with less force than an optic on a shotgun at 1.5 feet..... you have a good point. OP's red dot got dropped and sandwiched between the floor and an anvil, instead of a lightweight polymer pistol. yeah, physics. |
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Posted: 5/12/2022 7:50:29 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Los Angeles County Sheriffs department which is probably the largest RDS authorizing agency in the country has Holosun and Trijicon approved for duty use. The Holosun is a duty grade optic without a doubt. Maybe it is LESS sturdy than the RMR but it will hold up fine if you don't overly abuse it like OPs example. The Holosun has a distinct advantages over the RMR in that you do not have to remove the optic once a year to rezero when you change your battery. I keep seeing people say that about re-zeroing their rmr after replacing the battery. It's not really a thing. Of the half dozen RMRs over the last 10 years I haven't lost my zero after replacing batteries. Same with working at a gun store/range and helped countless people set up optics. |
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Posted: 5/12/2022 8:44:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I keep seeing people say that about re-zeroing their rmr after replacing the battery. It's not really a thing. Of the half dozen RMRs over the last 10 years I haven't lost my zero after replacing batteries. Same with working at a gun store/range and helped countless people set up optics. Its not so much that the RMR, or any bottom loading battery optic, has to be re-zero'ed. Instead you should confirm the zero...no different than when you remount any other optic. A side or top loading battery compartment eliminates this need and is the reason you see the push towards them. |
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Posted: 5/12/2022 8:50:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I had multiple emails back and forth with Aaron at Holosun. Warehouse supervisor. They sent me an RMA and I sent it in. It took them a month and a half to even inspect it, at which point they informed that that they don't cover damage incurred during "normal use." So its "normal" for a Holosun to crack if dropped 1.5' onto a wood floor. Yes on a long gun, but 1.5' onto wood is not more than you would get from a waist high drop on a pistol. It was a trivial impact. You could say it struck just right (just wrong?) but still... I have never dropped one of these before, so my failure rate on drop-test is 100%. I wouldn't say I'm asking for magic. Would any of us buy a handgun known to (even rarely) become completely un-aimable after a 1.5' drop? No way. People freak out and slag Sig when their P365 has a FTE after 1000+ rounds. If the consensus here is that all pistol optics are this fragile then I guess pistol optics are not for me. I generally agree about tube style red dots on long guns. I've beat mine up and they have never failed. And they are easier to mount QR so you can keep aiming your BUIS if they shatter. How was the optic mounted? How was the 1.5' height determined? |
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Posted: 5/12/2022 9:24:42 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its not so much that the RMR, or any bottom loading battery optic, has to be re-zero'ed. Instead you should confirm the zero...no different than when you remount any other optic. A side or top loading battery compartment eliminates this need and is the reason you see the push towards them. Is there any issue with damaging the slide threads over time from removing/ installing? That would be my only real concern. |
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Posted: 5/12/2022 9:33:39 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there any issue with damaging the slide threads over time from removing/ installing? That would be my only real concern. I cant recall ever seeing that be an issue and Ive been messing with slide ride optics since 2011. In theory you could.....but I think itd come from cross threading versus normal installing/removal. |
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