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Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:18:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Beretta must not think it's a good idea.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2261/maxresdefault_jpg-1763048.JPG
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Doesn't have an extractor.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:28:11 AM EST
After having a chambered 124gr HST go click instead of bang with a perfect primer strike when I drew my carry gun at the range, presumably due to having unloaded and rechambered it a few times, I have started to gently close the slide by hand while loading my gun for carry to avoid rendering the primer inert.  This method works for me when chambering a round from the mag into a glock because the rim easily slides into the extractor grove from below, but dropping a round into the chamber and then trying to close the slide gently makes it hard to get the extractor over the rim.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:35:44 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SouthernGunHand:
Time number 6, you mean "breech loading" vs "mag loading". Use your words guy.
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Same thing I say to my 2 year old.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:38:12 AM EST
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Originally Posted By KCode98:


S&W J frame
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Originally Posted By KCode98:
Originally Posted By bankfraudguy:
What gun are we talking about ?


S&W J frame


Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:54:36 AM EST
I did it for years (like 25 or so) with my 1911s with no issues at all.  Then the internet told me it was bad, but that's not why I stopped.

I did it on glocks, xdms, brownings, m&ps, but when I bought my first CZ, a P07, doing it would knock a nasty piece of brass out of the rim.  How nasty?  Big enough I worried about it getting into the frame and causing issues.  

So, I stopped doing that on all my pistols.

It's really not made to work that way anyway.  When you fire it the slide contacts the top/rear of the base of the case as it sits in the magazine.  As it pushed the cartridge out of the magazine into the chamber the base of the case slides upwards against the slide/breechface and the rim slide under the extractor claw, not over it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 9:12:40 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Space-Cadet:


Doesn't have an extractor.
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Didn't know that.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 9:14:54 AM EST
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Originally Posted By castlebravo84:
After having a chambered 124gr HST go click instead of bang with a perfect primer strike when I drew my carry gun at the range, presumably due to having unloaded and rechambered it a few times, I have started to gently close the slide by hand while loading my gun for carry to avoid rendering the primer inert.  This method works for me when chambering a round from the mag into a glock because the rim easily slides into the extractor grove from below, but dropping a round into the chamber and then trying to close the slide gently makes it hard to get the extractor over the rim.
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I don't believe that chambering a round multiple times will render a primer inert.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 11:01:24 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
I don't believe that chambering a round multiple times will render a primer inert.
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Originally Posted By castlebravo84:
After having a chambered 124gr HST go click instead of bang with a perfect primer strike when I drew my carry gun at the range, presumably due to having unloaded and rechambered it a few times, I have started to gently close the slide by hand while loading my gun for carry to avoid rendering the primer inert.  This method works for me when chambering a round from the mag into a glock because the rim easily slides into the extractor grove from below, but dropping a round into the chamber and then trying to close the slide gently makes it hard to get the extractor over the rim.
I don't believe that chambering a round multiple times will render a primer inert.


I didn't either until the round I had chambered multiple times didn't go bang. That is the only round of federal 9mm I've ever had fail to ignite with a good primer strike.  I didn't think much of it until I saw this video sometime later, and that was when I figured out the likely cause of my failure.

Link Posted: 1/4/2021 11:20:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2021 11:21:40 AM EST by RR_Broccoli]
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Originally Posted By BlindFaith429:


I've also heard (though never seen written proof from Beretta) that the 92 was designed to be "port loaded" and doing so would not damage the gun.

As for the 1911, I've read it's a no-no because of the internal extractor. With the extractor in the hole in the slide, it cannot bend out as the "hook" snaps over the rim. Again, nothing I've experimented with, just saying what I've heard.

I've never port-loaded a handgun, except for my Beretta 21A and 950BS (both have the tp-up barrels and are designed to be loaded like that).
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My PX4 developed marks on the extractor face (not the hook side the outer side) after dropping the slide on a round a dozen or so times. Not "damage" but marks.  So damaging the extractor over time is a "maybe" in my book.  I stopped doing one round that way and just use the mag now. If I lost all my mags and needed to load it I would do it without a second thought.  But for target shooting I won't do it anymore.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 1:28:59 PM EST
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Originally Posted By castlebravo84:


I didn't either until the round I had chambered multiple times didn't go bang. That is the only round of federal 9mm I've ever had fail to ignite with a good primer strike.  I didn't think much of it until I saw this video sometime later, and that was when I figured out the likely cause of my failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPx3mlMShs0
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If you're unloading and reloading your carry gun so often that you knock the firing compound out of a primer (I'm not sure where the compound would go), you may want to consider a second gun. I have two identical SD guns. One is for carry/home defense and the other is for the range. I swap them out every 1000 rounds which is basically once a month. I'm thinking about just going to one for range and one for carry/home defense permanently eliminating the swapping. Setting a limit on how many times you rechamber a round makes more sense to me than gently letting the slide go forward. That's negative training to me. You'll notice that Aaron let the slide fly when he reloaded his weapon.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 1:45:18 PM EST
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Originally Posted By harrymank:

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Originally Posted By harrymank:
Originally Posted By Blstr89:
I will say, I've been loading my Glock like this for years now, and have yet to have any issues.

Open slide, I drop the round into the chamber and then release slide, load a fully loaded mag, holster the pistol and go about my day.



i hear that how you break the bottom tip of the extractor on glocks.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:18:19 PM EST
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Originally Posted By DasRonin:
If you use the bad technique and the extractor breaks after chambering a round, you now have a single shot pistol.
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Second time in this thread someone has said that.

I'm not so sure.

On a blow-back operated handgun chamber pressure will push the casing out of the chamber.  The extractor certainly is necessary to clear an unfired round, but not so sure a failed extractor will prevent subsequent firing.

I know this is true of some .22lr.  Maybe one day I'll try firing a 1911 with the extractor removed.


Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:43:11 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KCode98:


I understand its a bad idea. What I asked was does anyone know how much damage it has done or how much before failure? So far no one can say anything past it's a bad idea.
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That’s going to depend on the gun. 1911s are more prone to breakage, sprung and short-arm extractors (looking at you, Glock) would be less prone to breakage.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 7:03:06 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2021 7:04:12 PM EST by TheRealCocowheats]
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Originally Posted By nhsport:



How it was explained to me was a slide slamming forward on a chambered round forces a extractor to jump over the cartridge rim .
In the normal firing sequence with  the cartridge coming out of the magazine and tilting into the chamber the rim slides under the extractor hook from the bottom
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Correct.

So, depending on the extractor and how many times the extractor has been forced to jump a casing's rim, the extractor's edge could become rolled and therefore have a less positive grab on a casing.

How many times that takes depends on lots of factors.

Pretty easy to just not do it....
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:58:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/4/2021 9:00:19 PM EST by pokey074]
Dropping the slide on a chambered round WILL cause unnecessary wear to the extractor AND the cartridge rim. How long will it take before damage occurs? Who knows, but I do know this: I once bought a used gen2 GLOCK 22 that had extraction problems. Turns out the extractor was chipped. No doubt in my mind it was from the previous owner dropping the slide on a chambered round. Doing that is just a poor idea.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 9:18:40 PM EST
It's not that the extractor has to jump over the rim of the cartridge it's the hook of the extractor slamming into the cartridge rim.
The shear forces on such a small diameter will break any extractor over time. I replace extractors a lot in my shop. No gun is immune to the small tip of the extractor hook breaking off.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 9:35:31 PM EST
Most modern designs will have room and a wide range of travel on the extractor and it’s a non issue.

1911s with standard or even aftec extractors it’s a very bad idea. You can get away with it a few times but it will damage(chip) the extractor.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 9:38:04 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KCode98:


I understand its a bad idea. What I asked was does anyone know how much damage it has done or how much before failure? So far no one can say anything past it's a bad idea.
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Do some research on broken 1911 extractors or find the gunsmiths that fix them. They will have seen this.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 10:38:19 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/5/2021 10:39:58 AM EST by Marksman14]
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Originally Posted By mr_h:


i hear that how you break the bottom tip of the extractor on glocks.
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Exactly this.

I've replaced a few extractors where I work due to them getting chipped.  All of the owners were habitual "drop it in the chamber" loaders.

Load from the magazine.  Yours may never chip, but the only ones I've seen chip all had that one factor in common.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 11:09:03 AM EST
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Originally Posted By SouthernGunHand:
The better question to ask here is why would you even need/want to do that?
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For example, if you dry fire with your carry or HD gun.

Remove mag.

Rack slide to remove chambered round.

Rack slide several more times to ensure chamber is empty.

Lock slide to rear.

Visually and physically inspect chamber and mag well.

Place ammunition and full mag somewhere else away from you.

Conduct dry fire drills.

Now...you can reload by either inserting mag, racking slide then removing mag to top off...or drop the round you removed from the chamber back into the chamber and closing the slide. Then reinsert mag.

There's an example of when someone might do it.
Link Posted: 1/5/2021 4:04:57 PM EST
Doing it once or twice will more than likely not damage anything but it is really bad practice, can damage the extractor especially if done repeatedly, and why not just feed from the mag as most pistols are designed.  I would not do it on pistols like the 1911 with an internal extractor which is tuned and similar designs.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 3:02:26 AM EST
Originally Posted By CatSnipah:


For example, if you dry fire with your carry or HD gun.

Remove mag.

Rack slide to remove chambered round.

Rack slide several more times to ensure chamber is empty.

Lock slide to rear.

Visually and physically inspect chamber and mag well.

Place ammunition and full mag somewhere else away from you.

Conduct dry fire drills.

Now...you can reload by either inserting mag, racking slide then removing mag to top off...or drop the round you removed from the chamber back into the chamber and closing the slide. Then reinsert mag.

There's an example of when someone might do it.
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My son in law broke his extractor on a Cheap 9mm years ago. I don't remember the brand. He sent it in for warranty work and they asked him if he chambered rounds by dropping them in? He did it regularly. They told him not to do that anymore. When I took my armorers class I asked the instructor if this was a real thing? The answer was that it was the #1 cause of broken, chipped, malfunctioning extractors on some guns, including Glocks. He should know. I've not done it since.
 
I try to shoot my carry at least once a week. It's a G20SF that I keep fully loaded with Underwood Ammo. When I reload Underwood,  after shooting less expensive ammo, procedure is to place magazine in gun, chamber round off magazine, drop magazine and add round that was originally ejected from barrel to top off magazine, replace magazine in gun, holster. Because this exercise continually rotates the top two bullets, I occasionally shoot the top couple rounds at something and replace with new.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 12:39:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KCode98:
So no one has done any test on this to see if it's true or not? Everyone is just saying "I heard" or "it's not a good idea".
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I try not to purposely break my guns. This really doesn’t matter to me. I always load from the magazine because I’ll drop the round if I try loading the chamber with my fingers. You do it and tell us how many times required to break something.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 8:56:50 PM EST
That’s going to depend on the gun.
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Yes Beretta's are the best ones & says they can do it.  Glock are the worst.  Armor class goes into this briefly.
Specifically with .40's/357 since there still is a lack of full chamber support.(got better over the years though)

Once in a while, fine, steady practice.. 50/50
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 11:57:15 PM EST
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Originally Posted By KCode98:
So no one has done any test on this to see if it's true or not? Everyone is just saying "I heard" or "it's not a good idea".
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Broke a 1911 extractor doing it.

It was also a pretty cheap 1911.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 2:05:06 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Rope-A-Dope:

Second time in this thread someone has said that.

I'm not so sure.

On a blow-back operated handgun chamber pressure will push the casing out of the chamber.  The extractor certainly is necessary to clear an unfired round, but not so sure a failed extractor will prevent subsequent firing.

I know this is true of some .22lr.  Maybe one day I'll try firing a 1911 with the extractor removed.


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Originally Posted By Rope-A-Dope:
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
If you use the bad technique and the extractor breaks after chambering a round, you now have a single shot pistol.

Second time in this thread someone has said that.

I'm not so sure.

On a blow-back operated handgun chamber pressure will push the casing out of the chamber.  The extractor certainly is necessary to clear an unfired round, but not so sure a failed extractor will prevent subsequent firing.

I know this is true of some .22lr.  Maybe one day I'll try firing a 1911 with the extractor removed.




I know for a fact it won't.  Had a Star Firestar, extractor tip broken, would fire but case would stay in chamber, double-feedsville.  Knocked it out, chambered, fired again, case stayed in chamber again.  

So yes, it was rendered single-shot.  No to the wiseguys, I had never loaded by the "drop-in chamber" method being discussed.

As far as constantly unloading and loading your primary carry pistol, this is one of the main reasons to have a duplicate of said pistol.

We have one of the extras at home set up specifically as the dryfire gun.

Other than dryfire, and occasional "maintenance" cleaning if you're not shooting it a whole lot, I can't see a reason to be constantly clearing it.


Link Posted: 1/7/2021 8:51:50 AM EST
Dropping the slide on a chambered round is a lot like snapping your wrist to close the cylinder on a revolver.
Will it hurt anything if you do it right now? Maybe. Will it eventually damage the gun? Absolutely.

Both practices are taking unnecessary chances for damage through bad habit.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 10:03:57 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 10:10:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 11:15:12 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 11:31:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2021 11:35:24 AM EST by wildearp]
Some Glocks have MIM extractors and this is exactly how to break them.
Link Posted: 1/7/2021 4:48:43 PM EST
I have done this. Never even crossed my mind about damage. It wasn't a habbit and now it most definitely will never be.

This is why I love ARFCOM. Solid and informative discussion.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 12:43:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By BlindFaith429:


I've also heard (though never seen written proof from Beretta) that the 92 was designed to be "port loaded" and doing so would not damage the gun.

As for the 1911, I've read it's a no-no because of the internal extractor. With the extractor in the hole in the slide, it cannot bend out as the "hook" snaps over the rim. Again, nothing I've experimented with, just saying what I've heard.

I've never port-loaded a handgun, except for my Beretta 21A and 950BS (both have the tp-up barrels and are designed to be loaded like that).
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I have only done it on Beretta 92 and 96 series because of the wide open breach.
Link Posted: 1/8/2021 2:26:03 PM EST
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Originally Posted By SouthernGunHand:
I've read your post 5 times and it makes no sense. Dropping the slide vs chambering a round? Does not seem to be worded correctly.

But, to answer your question, no. Why would dropping the slide do any damage? That is what happens when firing the gun.
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In a 1911 the round slides up the breech face under the extractor hook.
The hook does NOT jump over the bottom of the case into the extractor groove.
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 11:28:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By JSG:
Dropping the slide on a chambered round is a lot like snapping your wrist to close the cylinder on a revolver.
Will it hurt anything if you do it right now? Maybe. Will it eventually damage the gun? Absolutely.

Both practices are taking unnecessary chances for damage through bad habit.
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Probably the best analogy here.

Will dropping a round in the chamber cause premature wear? Maybe.

Will loading from the mag cause premature wear? Nope.

Seems like something I just wouldn’t want to push my luck on. At least for a carry gun anyway.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 7:22:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By KimberZ71:
I was taught to chamber semi autos from the magazine and that breech loading was a "last resort" due to stress on extractors.  I don't even like to drop the bolt on an empty AR
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Same.
Link Posted: 1/14/2021 11:23:19 AM EST
I actually broke the tip off the extractor on a 1911 that I used to own by doing that. I don't do it anymore.

Link Posted: 1/14/2021 12:16:00 PM EST
Doesn't hurt a Makarov.

30 years ago, I remember watching the AGI gunsmithing video (on VHS!) for the Pistolet Makarov.  The old gunsmith said that on a Mak, the extractor jumping over the cartridge rim when going into battery was the normal operating procedure - that's how Ol' Nikolay Fyodorovich himself designed it.
Link Posted: 1/15/2021 9:36:35 PM EST
This topic came up a few years ago during a discussion with one of the LTW pistol smiths.  
He stated that Ned Christiansen at Michiguns, www.m-guns.com, had developed a fixture to test how harmful this practice was or was not.
After over 2000 cycles of the fixture the extractor was completely intact with no tension issues or ill effects.

This was second hand info so read into it what you may.

JD

Link Posted: 1/17/2021 8:29:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By jackd1:
This topic came up a few years ago during a discussion with one of the LTW pistol smiths.  
He stated that Ned Christiansen at Michiguns, www.m-guns.com, had developed a fixture to test how harmful this practice was or was not.
After over 2000 cycles of the fixture the extractor was completely intact with no tension issues or ill effects.

This was second hand info so read into it what you may.

JD

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How many hundreds of extractors did he test thousands of times?

Statistics on a single unit are pretty much useless.
Link Posted: 1/17/2021 8:39:10 PM EST
I snapped the claw off the extractor on a Benelli and an 870 doing it shooting clays for years.  

I used to drop the shell into the chamber and then close the action, causing the extractor to jump over the rim.  Broke it clean off one day.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 7:42:41 PM EST
Short of buying a duplicate carry gun, what's best practice for dry firing and then reloading your carry gun? On a Glock, it's easy to ease the extractor over the rim of the cartridge, but that trick doesn't work on my Sig.

Is it possible to lock the.slide back and slip a round in from the magwell side?
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:10:24 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Lhotse:
Short of buying a duplicate carry gun, what's best practice for dry firing and then reloading your carry gun? On a Glock, it's easy to ease the extractor over the rim of the cartridge, but that trick doesn't work on my Sig.

Is it possible to lock the.slide back and slip a round in from the magwell side?
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Unload and go to a different room. Use one of your spare mags (You do have multiple spare mags, right?) to load a snap cap and dryfire away. When you're done load back up with your carry ammo.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:38:44 PM EST
Ar15 should be able to be port loaded because the extractor slides over the case every time it is loaded. Handguns are a little different.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 8:46:14 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Lhotse:
Short of buying a duplicate carry gun, what's best practice for dry firing and then reloading your carry gun? On a Glock, it's easy to ease the extractor over the rim of the cartridge, but that trick doesn't work on my Sig.

Is it possible to lock the.slide back and slip a round in from the magwell side?
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Load from the magazine.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 9:25:25 PM EST
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Originally Posted By pokey074:
Unload and go to a different room. Use one of your spare mags (You do have multiple spare mags, right?) to load a snap cap and dryfire away. When you're done load back up with your carry ammo.
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Sorry, I should have been more clear. Given the ammo shortage and the possibility of setback or other issues from repeatedly re-clambering a round, how do we practice regularly without burning through ammo?
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 9:30:55 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Lhotse:


Sorry, I should have been more clear. Given the ammo shortage and the possibility of setback or other issues from repeatedly re-clambering a round, how do we practice regularly without burning through ammo?
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While I don't recommend it normally, your only real option is to load from the magazine dropping the slide slowly.

I've been using two identical guns for years for various reasons this being one of them. I keep one gun loaded for SD and the other loaded with a couple of snap caps.
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 9:38:15 PM EST
Don't drop the slide on a chambered round, load the rounds from the magazine as was intended
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 8:09:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
While I don't recommend it normally, your only real option is to load from the magazine dropping the slide slowly.

I've been using two identical guns for years for various reasons this being one of them. I keep one gun loaded for SD and the other loaded with a couple of snap caps.
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Originally Posted By Bradd_D:
Originally Posted By Lhotse:


Sorry, I should have been more clear. Given the ammo shortage and the possibility of setback or other issues from repeatedly re-clambering a round, how do we practice regularly without burning through ammo?
While I don't recommend it normally, your only real option is to load from the magazine dropping the slide slowly.

I've been using two identical guns for years for various reasons this being one of them. I keep one gun loaded for SD and the other loaded with a couple of snap caps.
Yep. Here's my shameful little secret: when I initially load my self-defense pistol, I ride the slide forward and give it a smack on the back to make sure it goes fully into battery. If I'm going to immediately shoot I let it fly like you're supposed to.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 10:51:47 PM EST
I've been dropping the slide on a chambered round of my EDC gun for well over 25 years, Rugers, HK's, Steyr's & now Glock for the last ~15 or so & have never broken an extractor.  I have friends who are the same & have talked to many guys who do the same.  If your gun can't survive having the slide dropped on a chambered round, get a better gun or at least a better extractor.
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