Does any factory ammo use a 115gr XTP at BPLE velocity? - Page 1

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Does any factory ammo use a 115gr XTP at BPLE velocity?

Posted: 1/14/2020 9:00:15 PM EDT

It seems to me that this combination has the potential to be the best of both worlds. BPLE comes up short on penetration, XTPs seem to under expand but push deeper than other bullets of their weight. If you switched out the standard Federal high shock 115gr for a 115gr XTP could it do both??

A 115gr XTP at 1350fps seems like a load to look into.

I'm in the 147gr HST camp,but if you could get equal penetration with more expansion would that be better?

Posted: 1/15/2020 12:37:00 AM EDT

[#1]

That would be a badass load, I wonder if Underwood or Buffalo Bore makes it.

Posted: 1/15/2020 2:11:45 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
It seems to me that this combination has the potential to be the best of both worlds. BPLE comes up short on penetration, XTPs seem to under expand but push deeper than other bullets of their weight. If you switched out the standard Federal high shock 115gr for a 115gr XTP could it do both??

A 115gr XTP at 1350fps seems like a load to look into.

I'm in the 147gr HST camp,but if you could get equal penetration with more expansion would that be better?

View Quote

Underwood makes that exact load:

[url]https://www.underwoodammo.com/collections/handgun-ammo/products/9mm-luger-p-115-grain-jacket-hollow-point?variant=18785726857273[url]

While 9BPLE is marketed as "+P+", it's actually just a full power 38,500psi +P load. Velocity is around 1275fps from a G19.

As such, expect that this Underwood +P will be a little faster then 9BPLE; 1300fps+ from a G19. I've never seen a review where Underwood posts a lower velocity then on the box in 9x19. I'd expect 1350fps from the G17.

Posted: 1/15/2020 4:34:49 AM EDT

[#3]

I'd be intrested in a side by side comparison.

Posted: 1/15/2020 11:43:47 AM EDT

[#4]

That would be a very interesting load. It may blow up and under-penetrate but maybe be perfect.

If the 115 is too shallow then try the 124. I'd like to see it tested.

Posted: 1/15/2020 1:26:20 PM EDT

[#5]

Quote History

Quoted:
That would be a very interesting load. It may blow up and under-penetrate but maybe be perfect.

If the 115 is too shallow then try the 124. I'd like to see it tested.

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I suspect it will do great. Hornady rates the 115gr up to 1400fps:

Here's the XTP @ 1100fps. 19.5" penetration, 0.48" expansion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZ6y09PA2mc

So I think performance will improve at 1300fps; my guess probably around 0.6" x 13", with much more disruption in the block.

I also think it would be a great RDS / Roland Special pistol load. At 1300fps, theres a) enough gas to work well with a compensator b) enough velocity to ensure good expansion at range.

The above gel test show solid performance at 1100fps impact velocity, which correlates to a 60yd impact velocity if fired @ 1300fps:

Posted: 1/15/2020 4:20:53 PM EDT

[#6]

Seems like you want a .357 Sig?

Posted: 1/15/2020 7:08:04 PM EDT

[#7]

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Quoted:
Seems like you want a .357 Sig?

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The 357Sig is a good round and I have 357 barrels for several 40SW guns. The Hornady 357Sig load using the 147gr XTP is very good. But other than entertainment, I don't think the 357Sig juice is worth the squeeze. For my 40/357 sized guns, I prefer the 40.

With the crowd going headlong into the 147 weights, we kinda forgot about the 115gr. The 115 has a lot of potential for development since technology has gone past the old SilverTip, 9BP, and various old mediocre 115gr bullets. How about a 115 XTP that is bonded, driven to an honest 1300fps? I have no idea if it's viable but it sounds interesting.

Posted: 1/15/2020 7:19:28 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
The 357Sig is a good round and I have 357 barrels for several 40SW guns. The Hornady 357Sig load using the 147gr XTP is very good. But other than entertainment, I don't think the 357Sig juice is worth the squeeze. For my 40/357 sized guns, I prefer the 40.

With the crowd going headlong into the 147 weights, we kinda forgot about the 115gr. The 115 has a lot of potential for development since technology has gone past the old SilverTip, 9BP, and various old mediocre 115gr bullets. How about a 115 XTP that is bonded, driven to an honest 1300fps? I have no idea if it's viable but it sounds interesting.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
Seems like you want a .357 Sig?

The 357Sig is a good round and I have 357 barrels for several 40SW guns. The Hornady 357Sig load using the 147gr XTP is very good. But other than entertainment, I don't think the 357Sig juice is worth the squeeze. For my 40/357 sized guns, I prefer the 40.

With the crowd going headlong into the 147 weights, we kinda forgot about the 115gr. The 115 has a lot of potential for development since technology has gone past the old SilverTip, 9BP, and various old mediocre 115gr bullets. How about a 115 XTP that is bonded, driven to an honest 1300fps? I have no idea if it's viable but it sounds interesting.

I mean, is a 115 grain really going to out perform a 125 grain load at those same velocities? Honestly I don't know the answer, but there is a lot of data for the 125 grain load at those velocities from .357 mag/sig.

Posted: 1/15/2020 7:27:46 PM EDT

[#9]

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Quoted:
Seems like you want a .357 Sig?

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The ideal is to get close to .357 SIG performance as possible, while maintaining the low cost, simplicity, and availability of 9mm. .357 SIG is always going to be better (I consider it and 9x23 to be the ideal autoloading pistol cartridge) but if we can get 80% there with 20% the effort...

With the new Winchester M152 115gr FMJ @ 1300fps US Army load now hitting the shelves, we now have a ready source of cheap, full power training ammo to replicate 9BPLE and now this new Underwood XTP load.

Hopefully we will see more manufacturers come out with 115's @ 1300fps. It would be perfect for Winchester, given they are already cranking out M152.

A Hornady 115gr XTP @ 1300fps from Hornady would be awesome, but Hornady seems to load all of their pistol ammo on the very slow side, so unlikely. Their current 115gr American Gunner is subsonic from a 4" barrel....oy.

Posted: 1/18/2020 3:30:50 PM EDT

[#10]

This is right up my alley. 115 XTP and 115 HAP pair perfectly as defense/training loads. May look into loading a flat shooting, 1300fps 115 gr to pair with an RMR'd pistol, could be an enjoyable plinker out to a long ways.

Posted: 1/18/2020 3:35:50 PM EDT

[#11]

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Quoted:
... Hornady seems to load all of their pistol ammo on the very slow side, so unlikely. Their current 115gr American Gunner is subsonic from a 4" barrel....oy.

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Hornady's XTP is an excellent pistol bullet, but their American Gunner line is both anemic and poorly executed IMO. You already covered the 9mm, the .45Auto load with 185s is a joke and suffers from bullet setback in my experience. When hand loaded to proper (high end) velocities and with a proper crimp, the 185s are a whole different animal. Shame on Hornady for their weak loadings - and their weak load manual data

Posted: 1/18/2020 3:51:02 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
It seems to me that this combination has the potential to be the best of both worlds. BPLE comes up short on penetration, XTPs seem to under expand but push deeper than other bullets of their weight. If you switched out the standard Federal high shock 115gr for a 115gr XTP could it do both??

A 115gr XTP at 1350fps seems like a load to look into.

I'm in the 147gr HST camp,but if you could get equal penetration with more expansion would that be better?

View Quote

Have you considered 124gr HST?

Posted: 1/18/2020 5:26:46 PM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is right up my alley. 115 XTP and 115 HAP pair perfectly as defense/training loads. May look into loading a flat shooting, 1300fps 115 gr to pair with an RMR'd pistol, could be an enjoyable plinker out to a long ways.

View Quote

Another option I'm interested in checking out is RMR 115gr JHP.

This is the results from ~1250-1300fps:

And at $0.09 a projectile, they are less then a penny more then a regular FMJ, meaning that its cheap enough to standardize on for both a defensive and training projectile.

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-115-gr-rmr-jacketed-hollow-point-mini-multi-purpose-round-bullets/

Minuteman loads this same projectile to a real +P velocity of 1275fps/G19 / 1325fps G17. Hopefully someone can do an independent gel test:
https://minutemanammo.com/collections/9mm/products/9mm-p-115-grain-jhp-1-250-fps

Posted: 1/18/2020 5:50:02 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Have you considered 124gr HST?

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
It seems to me that this combination has the potential to be the best of both worlds. BPLE comes up short on penetration, XTPs seem to under expand but push deeper than other bullets of their weight. If you switched out the standard Federal high shock 115gr for a 115gr XTP could it do both??

A 115gr XTP at 1350fps seems like a load to look into.

I'm in the 147gr HST camp,but if you could get equal penetration with more expansion would that be better?

Have you considered 124gr HST?

124gr +p shoots really really good in my Ruger EC9s.

Like I thought I missed the target 2 or 3 times but it was one hole good.

I think I'm getting 1200-1300fps too ( no chrono. Just online comparison)

Posted: 1/18/2020 5:55:42 PM EDT

[#15]

handload chrony data a did a few years ago

Attached File

Posted: 1/18/2020 9:25:28 PM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
Another option I'm interested in checking out is RMR 115gr JHP.

This is the results from ~1250-1300fps:
https://i.ibb.co/80VD5v3/Screen-Shot-2020-01-18-at-1-15-44-PM.png

And at $0.09 a projectile, they are less then a penny more then a regular FMJ, meaning that its cheap enough to standardize on for both a defensive and training projectile.

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-115-gr-rmr-jacketed-hollow-point-mini-multi-purpose-round-bullets/

Minuteman loads this same projectile to a real +P velocity of 1275fps/G19 / 1325fps G17. Hopefully someone can do an independent gel test:
https://minutemanammo.com/collections/9mm/products/9mm-p-115-grain-jhp-1-250-fps

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is right up my alley. 115 XTP and 115 HAP pair perfectly as defense/training loads. May look into loading a flat shooting, 1300fps 115 gr to pair with an RMR'd pistol, could be an enjoyable plinker out to a long ways.

Another option I'm interested in checking out is RMR 115gr JHP.

This is the results from ~1250-1300fps:
https://i.ibb.co/80VD5v3/Screen-Shot-2020-01-18-at-1-15-44-PM.png

And at $0.09 a projectile, they are less then a penny more then a regular FMJ, meaning that its cheap enough to standardize on for both a defensive and training projectile.

https://www.rmrbullets.com/shop/bullets/pistol/9mm-355/9mm-115-gr-rmr-jacketed-hollow-point-mini-multi-purpose-round-bullets/

Minuteman loads this same projectile to a real +P velocity of 1275fps/G19 / 1325fps G17. Hopefully someone can do an independent gel test:
https://minutemanammo.com/collections/9mm/products/9mm-p-115-grain-jhp-1-250-fps

Very interesting. That expansion is closing in on HST territory.

Posted: 1/19/2020 7:41:37 AM EDT

[#17]

I tested some Everglades 124gr bullets at 1400+fps in gel and they performed very well. They all held together and penetrated to about 14 inches. About 9 cents a round if bought in bulk.

https://generalcartridge.wordpress.com/2017/12/09/playing-with-9mm-major/

Posted: 1/19/2020 9:35:26 AM EDT

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:
I tested some Everglades 124gr bullets at 1400+fps in gel and they performed very well. They all held together and penetrated to about 14 inches. About 9 cents a round if bought in bulk.

https://generalcartridge.wordpress.com/2017/12/09/playing-with-9mm-major/

View Quote

Thanks again for doing that test.

Do you have any interest in doing one of the factory HV 115gr's, either the Underwood XTP or Minuteman RMR? That would be really helpful for us to determine if this "modern 9BPLE" path worth pursuing.

Posted: 1/19/2020 3:57:41 PM EDT

[#19]

I do find the idea intriguing. I would think the XTP would probably do well.

Posted: 1/19/2020 5:15:27 PM EDT

[#20]

Black Hills loads one at 1250 FPS. Close.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Does any factory ammo use a 115gr XTP at BPLE velocity?

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