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Posted: 9/6/2022 1:27:20 PM EDT

God forbid one of us actually have to kill an attacker , as a legal defense would it be better to find out what the local police are using and then use the closest round you can? My local pd uses federal law enforcement.40 s&e 180 gr hst tactical ammo, i have a 380 and 9mm so it won’t be exactly the same but close in my calibers.
Or does ammo not really make a difference

Posted: 9/6/2022 1:37:34 PM EDT

[#1]

Will your attacker be using said ammo? Never known where ammo choice in a self defense shooting was an issue.

Posted: 9/6/2022 1:53:21 PM EDT

[#2]

It doesn’t matter

Posted: 9/6/2022 2:21:22 PM EDT

[#3]

Well, if you use hollow-points, your prosecutor will claim you chose exploding bullets to inflict maximum damage (I believe the industry term is 'crit hit'). On the other hand, if you use FMJ, your prosecutor will claim you chose military spec rounds that will overpenetrate everything and kill everyone in direct line of sight for 500 yards.

So, in other words - nah. Use what you want.

Posted: 9/7/2022 11:25:36 AM EDT

[#4]

Use the most effective ammo you can buy and afford the first objective of carrying and defending life is to win and stop the threat. A good shoot is a good shoot and if you end up in court then you end up there. If you end up losing a gunfight because you chose a poor ammo choice because you are worried you will end up in court but died instead all because your rounds were ineffective at stopping the threat.

Old saying.... Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

Posted: 9/7/2022 12:07:47 PM EDT

[#5]

If use of lethal force is justified then it's justified, and any method you use is legally ok. So throwing gas on them and hitting with an incendiary round is fair game. Maybe not the best optics to a jury but from a legal standpoint it doesn't matter because a good shoot is a good shoot. So is a good "run them over with the 29,000,000 grain car" if that's what you've got as long as you can articulate why lethal force was required in the instant you deployed the action. No need to overthink minor ammo differences.

Posted: 9/7/2022 3:07:38 PM EDT

[#6]

i ended up buying a box of hornady critical defense 115 gr same as I brand as I have in my LCP 380. not to find a supply of the Hornady CD at an affordable price so I can actually practice some with it

Posted: 9/7/2022 7:19:10 PM EDT

[#7]

It's more important to carry a round that is proven reliable, accurate, and available to you in YOUR particular firearms.

I am issued 124 gn and 230 gn HST. I carry both in my personal handguns because of the above reasons.

JHP vs FMJ in a performance argument has some legs with advantages and disadvantages for both.

JHP vs FMJ in a legal argument is fake news.

Posted: 9/9/2022 7:13:16 AM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:
It doesn’t matter

View Quote

This. If a prosecutor is trying to convict you, they will attempt to paint everything you did or had on you as bad. If I recall correctly, in the Kyle Rittenhouse trial the prosecutor was trying to paint FMJ ammo as more deadly than other types of ammo. Had Kyle been running JHP ammo, it would have been the same type of argument. As others have said, far better to pick a proven type of ammo that you have also ensured runs well in your firearm.

Posted: 9/9/2022 7:20:58 AM EDT

[#9]

Carry whatever ammunition you feel you get the best accuracy with while also performing down range as you would like. Most folks don't do ballistic gel test but there is usually enough information on youtube for the more common and some not so common ammunition. And don't buy into the whole "you'll get sued if you use such and such" rounds or reloads. A good lawyer will get that type of argument tossed out right off the bat.

Posted: 9/11/2022 2:52:11 PM EDT

[#10]

Usually LE flavors are the go to ammo because they tested batches of it before purchasing. Just go with a good solid production expanding round for 9mm, even better if you know some agencies tested it. For .380 go here

Posted: 9/12/2022 7:55:00 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:
If use of lethal force is justified then it's justified, and any method you use is legally ok. So throwing gas on them and hitting with an incendiary round is fair game. Maybe not the best optics to a jury but from a legal standpoint it doesn't matter because a good shoot is a good shoot. So is a good "run them over with the 29,000,000 grain car" if that's what you've got as long as you can articulate why lethal force was required in the instant you deployed the action. No need to overthink minor ammo differences.

View Quote

Reminds me of when I had my KY Concealed Deadly Weapons Permit. Didn't matter if I hit him with a .44 Mag, frying pan or SMG under the trench coat. Deadly force is deadly force. Its all going in front of the same grand jury to see if justified.

CD

Posted: 9/12/2022 8:35:23 AM EDT

[#12]

25+ as a big city cop with 20 of that as a detective.

It will likely not come up at all... we work approx 250 murders a year and a guess would be 50/50 hollow point to FMJ

When people ask me I recommend buying whatever quality gun you shoot well in a potent caliber (9mm or larger)

Not to say .380 can't do the job but it's more of a BUG or extreme concealment sized gun.

For ammo just grab HST or Gold Dot in whatever caliber you've settled on.

You can always get further into the weeds with bullet weight, barrel length, capacity etc...

Biggest advice, get formal training from QUALIFIED instructors and train often.

Shooting 100 rounds every week will serve you far better than shooting 500 rounds once a year

Posted: 9/17/2022 8:25:02 AM EDT

[#13]

Quote History

Quoted:
25+ as a big city cop with 20 of that as a detective.

It will likely not come up at all... we work approx 250 murders a year and a guess would be 50/50 hollow point to FMJ

When people ask me I recommend buying whatever quality gun you shoot well in a potent caliber (9mm or larger)

Not to say .380 can't do the job but it's more of a BUG or extreme concealment sized gun.

For ammo just grab HST or Gold Dot in whatever caliber you've settled on.

You can always get further into the weeds with bullet weight, barrel length, capacity etc...

Biggest advice, get formal training from QUALIFIED instructors and train often.

Shooting 100 rounds every week will serve you far better than shooting 500 rounds once a year

View Quote

This has been my experience having prosecuted cases and defending cases involving firearms to include robbery and homicide. Now it’s your own damn fault if you put a punisher skull or santa muerte emblems on your firearm. Im introducing the gun used as it was during the crime. I was always more amused that most guns in cases I prosecuted that involved real criminals (gang members/shooters) had multiple different types of ammo in the magazine, or only 4-5 rounds in the mag. Like it was going to throw LEO off during the investigation.

Posted: 9/17/2022 9:02:19 AM EDT

[#14]

Mas Ayoob carries on about this but any argument can be made regarding ammo. If you use LEO choice ammo then the prosecutor can say you are a "police wanna be looking to kill", or if you have some choice which advertises as "more deadly" (I can't think of any off hand). "Critical Defense" would be a good name to refute that argument (not recommending that ammo).

I drop a equal weight hollow point into the competition rounds I usually load for and run with that. The loading is time tested, recoil routine and I don't usually buy ammo, I load my own. My argument is if you have a car wreck with a fatality with your 69 Mustang and you added a crate Coyote engine to it, does that make you guilty of creating a killer car?

Posted: 9/23/2022 8:11:54 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
I was always more amused that most guns in cases I prosecuted that involved real criminals (gang members/shooters) had multiple different types of ammo in the magazine, or only 4-5 rounds in the mag. Like it was going to throw LEO off during the investigation.

View Quote

That's pretty common. I always assumed the mags were loaded with whatever they could scrounge up. Never heard of it being intentional, but I could see it.

Posted: 9/23/2022 9:54:14 AM EDT

[#16]

I'm no expect but I always prioritize reliability above everything else. I occasionally carry a tiny 380 ACP loaded with a JHP cartridge in the chamber and magazine filled with FMJ because it will hiccup occasionally with several JHP ammo I tried while it has never had any hiccup with FMJ in over 3,000 rounds. When I used to carry a Hi-Power I carried Federal 9mm JHP 9BP because it was the only JHP ammo that would function reliably 100% of time. It wasn't the optimal JHP ammo at the time but others didn't function 100%.
I think all the current factory premium JHP ammo works very well with very little difference between them in real life. Choose one you can find locally and shoot at least 100 rounds to make sure it works reliably in your weapon then load up your mags.
Remember, reliability above everything else.

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