Camping in bear country. - Page 2

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Camping in bear country. (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 10/22/2018 8:42:36 AM EDT

[#1]

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Quoted:

And the wide flat meplat is going to suck penetration off that bullet very quickly.

A low pressure round like a .45 ACP does NOT need hard cast for anything.

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This is false. As counter intuitive as it may seem, a wide, flat meplat which does not deform is the bullet form which provides the deepest and straightest penetration.

Posted: 10/22/2018 12:16:37 PM EDT

[#2]

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Quoted:

This is false. As counter intuitive as it may seem, a wide, flat meplat which does not deform is the bullet form which provides the deepest and straightest penetration.

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Yep, wide meplat is what you seek.

Most of you have never even seen a brown bear outside of a zoo, much less a black bear. I doubt many of you even hunt big game, or have experience with what different types of bullets are capable of in flesh and bone. Stop regurgitating false information.

Posted: 10/23/2018 5:44:35 PM EDT

[#3]

Quote History

Quoted:
This is false. As counter intuitive as it may seem, a wide, flat meplat which does not deform is the bullet form which provides the deepest and straightest penetration.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

And the wide flat meplat is going to suck penetration off that bullet very quickly.

A low pressure round like a .45 ACP does NOT need hard cast for anything.

This is false. As counter intuitive as it may seem, a wide, flat meplat which does not deform is the bullet form which provides the deepest and straightest penetration.

And since a .45 ACP is not exactly the most penetrative round out there a 'camp gun' in 12 gauge beats the pants off it.

The use of 'hard cast' anything in the low pressure .45 ACP round is not going to do all that much.

It is simply NOT going to penetrate all that well.

Posted: 10/23/2018 9:36:46 PM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

And since a .45 ACP is not exactly the most penetrative round out there a 'camp gun' in 12 gauge beats the pants off it.

The use of 'hard cast' anything in the low pressure .45 ACP round is not going to do all that much.

It is simply NOT going to penetrate all that well.

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A 255 gr .45 ACP will penetrate over 30 inches in gel. What are you talking about? The 10mm 220 gr does a little more but not by much.

Posted: 10/23/2018 9:56:09 PM EDT

[#5]

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Quoted:

A 255 gr .45 ACP will penetrate over 30 inches in gel. What are you talking about? The 10mm 220 gr does a little more but not by much.

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Underwood 220gr hardcast penetrates 52" of gel, iirc.

Posted: 10/24/2018 12:31:57 AM EDT

[#6]

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Quoted:

Underwood 220gr hardcast penetrates 52" of gel, iirc.

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I stand corrected. The 220 gr does penetrate more. You are right about that. However, the .45 ACP has taken down several bear. 5 reported incidents. To say it doesn't have sufficient penetration is wrong. Even 9mm's have done the job. Bear aren't indestructible. Sufficient penetration to vitals is what is needed and apparently it was enough in the past with lesser calibers.

http://sportingclassicsdaily.com/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/

Posted: 10/24/2018 8:21:10 PM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:
Underwood 220gr hardcast penetrates 52" of gel, iirc.

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Quoted:

Quoted:

A 255 gr .45 ACP will penetrate over 30 inches in gel. What are you talking about? The 10mm 220 gr does a little more but not by much.

Underwood 220gr hardcast penetrates 52" of gel, iirc.

That's right.

You don't have to be a math major to understand that 52" is greater than 30".

Always has been.

As the knowledgable, bush-savvy Alaskans like to say: 'the big bears fall fast to 10mm hard cast!'.

Posted: 10/24/2018 9:56:27 PM EDT

[#8]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's right.

You don't have to be a math major to understand that 52" is greater than 30".

Always has been.

As the knowledgable, bush-savvy Alaskans like to say: 'the big bears fall fast to 10mm hard cast!'.

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I haven't seen a test of hard cast but from what I've seen, a regular .45 ACP round nosed ball round did over 32 inches in gel. That's over 32 because there wasn't another gel block behind it. A hard cast of heavier weight and a flat nose that isn't deflect would do a bit more.

How much more? I don't know? No one has posted a test online.

Posted: 10/28/2018 4:49:29 PM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:

A 255 gr .45 ACP will penetrate over 30 inches in gel. What are you talking about? The 10mm 220 gr does a little more but not by much.

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So is a block of gel going to attack you?

Ballistic gel is used to compare bullets and loads.
It has no real predictive value.

Posted: 10/31/2018 8:10:54 PM EDT

[#10]

I would cast some LEE 452-230-TC with some 14-18BH alloy

and a max load of unique, power pistol, or similar powder

Attached File

Elmer Keith said the original 45long colt black powder 245gr behind the ear would drop a grizz

.

Posted: 10/31/2018 8:25:14 PM EDT

[#11]

I’d bring a portable electric fence. It’s not going to stop a determined bear, but it works when you are sleeping.

Posted: 11/1/2018 3:45:40 AM EDT

[#12]

Quote History

Quoted:

So is a block of gel going to attack you?

Ballistic gel is used to compare bullets and loads.
It has no real predictive value.

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I don't get your point about a block of gel attacking you.

I thought everyone knew that a block of gel was used to compare bullets and loads? So knowing that, how else can you measure penetration if not by using calibrated gel that produces repeatable results to compare one load to another?

Your post makes no sense.

Posted: 11/1/2018 6:45:09 AM EDT

[#13]

Or just shoot .45 Super or .45 SMC through your pistols.

Better than 45APC, no conversions necessary.

Posted: 11/2/2018 7:31:54 PM EDT

[#14]

Quote History

Quoted:
Elmer Keith said the original 45long colt black powder 245gr behind the ear would drop a grizz

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Dude, look, Elmer made a lot of great observations, but he occasionally said stupid shit too ... maybe when the bear takes a long enough break from nibbling on your nads and stands perfectly still, you'll get a precise shot 'behind the ear.'

Don't count on it.

Meanwhile, back in the real world

, knowledgable AK folks pack a 15+1 10mm Glock loaded hot, and don't hesitate to empty the magazine as needed.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Camping in bear country. (Page 2 of 2)

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