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Posted: 1/4/2021 4:20:47 PM EST
I went to my first uspsa match and came in dead last. Yay me! Nevertheless, I had a blast and will be back for more.

While waiting around, I overheard a few folks talk about spring weights and guide rods. I started looking around and found these...

https://www.carvercustom.com/ecommerce/carver-42751.cfm

Now, I'm not ready to change anything until I run a few more matches but I wanted to see if anyone is running these...

How about lighter springs? 16lb is standard in my m&p but most run light springs, some just stupid low like 8lb...

I was thinking that a tungsten guide rod and a 13lb spring might reduce some of the muzzle movement.

I'd love to hear anyone's experiences on the subject.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 4:29:52 PM EST
It's your money.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 4:51:05 PM EST
that rod will help a little bit.  However be advised that most of the good shooters will be running a 147 grain bullet at 850 FPS in uspsa minor and that is the first thing you need to obtain to level the playing field somewhat.  That's why they are running a lighter spring for the minimum power factor load.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 4:57:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By reelserious:
that rod will help a little bit.  However be advised that most of the good shooters will be running a 147 grain bullet at 850 FPS in uspsa minor and that is the first thing you need to obtain to level the playing field somewhat.  That's why they are running a lighter spring for the minimum power factor load.
View Quote



So an extremely low recoil load with works well with lighter springs... a standard 115 grain load ill probably not see much of a difference...
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:05:34 PM EST
A light spring will make it feel worse with a faster load.  You need to match the load to the spring.  If you are not a loader try and obtain some 147 grain subsonic loads and try them out. The closer you can get to 850 FPS the better off you will be .


if you dont load this is what you want
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:07:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By reelserious:
that rod will help a little bit.  However be advised that most of the good shooters will be running a 147 grain bullet at 850 FPS in uspsa minor and that is the first thing you need to obtain to level the playing field somewhat.  That's why they are running a lighter spring for the minimum power factor load.
View Quote


This!!

A 147 @ 850 to 900 FPS is an amazing competition load.  

It should help you focus on your sights - especially watching them lift off the target, and drop back into place for the next shot. Make sure you are not blinking while you shoot.  

Perceived recoil in semi auto handguns is a strange thing.  147s  with a lighter spring definitely “soften” the recoil.  160 grain bullets are popular with some.

Years ago I tried a few 180 grain, 9mm loads; they made power factor; I am sure the velocity was really low.  But man, were they soft shooting!

Just try the 147 grain ammo and remember:  

DRY FIRE!  Get the gun in your hand every night  - no more than 15 to 20 minutes.  But practice that draw and focus / dry fire on a fixed target.  
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:09:05 PM EST
the link I just posted has the ammo, two box limit buy some right now!!!
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:46:45 PM EST
Good for you for competing. Nothing will show you what you suck at faster than matches. Listen to the nice ranked people. Gear is more fun and easier to improve quickly than dry fire and training, it’s easy to focus on.

The ammo/springs/weight/slide cut is all balanced. I used to run a lighter slide with a slightly oversprubg spring because I liked it snappy, it came down faster for the follow up.

I also had 40 traveling just enough to make minor in a 2011 (3 gun practice mostly) and my 45s would skip into a target past 50 yards.
Lighter ammo dialed to your gun will make the most measurable gain. But some federal syntech or another small companies minor ammo. Lighten spring till it reliably cycles. Then add other shit
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 5:50:57 PM EST
Originally Posted By Voland:
I went to my first uspsa match and came in dead last. Yay me! Nevertheless, I had a blast and will be back for more.

While waiting around, I overheard a few folks talk about spring weights and guide rods. I started looking around and found these...

https://www.carvercustom.com/ecommerce/carver-42751.cfm

Now, I'm not ready to change anything until I run a few more matches but I wanted to see if anyone is running these...

How about lighter springs? 16lb is standard in my m&p but most run light springs, some just stupid low like 8lb...

I was thinking that a tungsten guide rod and a 13lb spring might reduce some of the muzzle movement.

I'd love to hear anyone's experiences on the subject.
View Quote

I run one in my Glock 19C.  I like it.   Between the C and the tungsten guide rod it stays flat when you do mag dumps on full auto.  (Legal full auto.  Just not mine.  I worked for a SOT.)    I was impressed.  It just floats there w/o any upward motion of the muzzle.
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 8:15:04 PM EST
I started USPSA in 1982 with a single stack .45.... at the time we tried anything to reduce the muzzle flip of the 175 power factor loads ... popular was the 200 grain load at over 875fps... I worked on flip rather than recoil per se... I ran a heavy spring 20-22# (exclusively ISMI when they cam out)... when I tried a tungsten guide rod, the pistol po-go'ed, and I did not like the feeling... I did shoot a full length un-captured guide rod with a reverse  plug, and a hole drilled so you could capture the spring with a "L" shaped piece of wire

IMHO there are better places to spend your money if you are serious about USPSA... a shot timer is a good starting place

Les L747
Limited M
Link Posted: 1/4/2021 10:52:09 PM EST
Thanks everyone! I think to start,  I'm not going to do a thing but buy more ammo if I can find it. My biggest problem was consistency. I think I just need to go to more matches and see what I can learn before I go mucking things up.

My gear is all set up for "war figting" rather than competing so ill need to tune that first I think. I am sure I was the only one running a retention holster... lol.

Link Posted: 1/5/2021 11:15:02 AM EST
Keep this in your mind.

Indian not the arrow.

Link Posted: 1/5/2021 12:21:04 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gregory_K:
Keep this in your mind.

Indian not the arrow.

View Quote


Always good advice...

Forrest

Link Posted: 1/5/2021 3:53:21 PM EST
Most everyone sucks the first few times.  What you should be proud of is your did not get a DQ the first time.  I think that is a bigger win for people than the ranking.  My first time I was so amped up I was dropping mags, not seating mags to watch them drop as I presented, missing shots I normally would make on my own without a timer, missing targets I was supposed to shoot or hitting targets I was not supposed to shoot.  My first out I considered it a win because I was not DQed for something stupid or safety infraction.  I see more new guys get a DQ first time than anything.  Second outing I went out and did not worry about time and was aiming for 100% A zone hit or as close to it as possible and I actually did surprisingly well.  Each time I built more and more speed but my main focus was always focusing on getting the A zone hit over being fast.  Disclaimer I am not a grand master and never will be I also shoot a fairly stock G17.4 except for 2 springs and a connector.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 9:14:55 AM EST
I say this as a person who will never be a Master level shooter... learn to reload fast, learn to improve target transitions, learn how to move in and out of shooting positions more efficiently, and learn how to make a good stage plan then execute it. All these aspects of shooting are much more impactful than any gear improvement (if your equipment is reliable).

If you were dead last, I would have handily beaten you with a revolver so a heavier guide rod or different ammo is not where you will see the biggest improvements. I will also say a lot of people do not shoot 147 or heavier 9mm. I cannot stand the sluggish feeling it gives me. I shoot 124 grain right at 130 PF in 9mm. Now in 40 I do shoot 200 grain majors and 230 grain majors in 45.

Boring, repetitive practice is the key but buying toys is more fun.
Link Posted: 1/6/2021 2:12:27 PM EST
Just for shits and grins I went and looked up my first match.  Hits weren't terrible but 63 seconds to run a stage.

Good on you for getting out there and competing.  It's an eye opener.

Attachment Attached File

Link Posted: 1/8/2021 12:34:46 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/8/2021 12:36:52 AM EST by Minnesotadude]
Usually the guys who spend half the match talking about spring weight, loads, etc are just nerds who are stuck in B class. As to your actual question yes weight in the right spot and a spring weight that better suits your ammo will improve muzzle flip and dip.

Not knowing anything about your gun or ammo a 13 pound spring will probably do well. Too light of a recoil spring on striker fire guns can start pulling the slide out of battery when you pull the trigger.
Link Posted: 1/10/2021 9:56:41 AM EST
I used to compete on the local level pretty heavily. I tried some of the go-fast stuff and it was fun. But I realized I’d never be satisfied. I switched to carry/duty type guns and worked hard on basics. Got to the point that my sig p220 and p228 kept me solidly competitive with the local space gun gurus. IWB holster and carry mag pouches with necessary extras stuffed in my pockets.  Lots of guys monkeyed with their guns and had failures during matches. Just from that alone 1/3 of the guys dropped below me because my Sigs always worked.  

Focus on the basics, learn to reload and enjoy the satisfaction when you beat a racegunner. Believe me stay humble when you beat them and the guys that lose to your superior skill will really respect and appreciate that your  beating them with a full carry rig.

Major props to you for getting out there and competing!
Link Posted: 1/22/2021 12:48:43 PM EST
The increased weight reduces free recoil energy.
It is just a convenient placer to add weight.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 6:31:12 AM EST
While we’re on the subject, anybody running either Sprinco’s or DPM’s Recoil Reducers?
I decided to try one on one of my VP9s and my Q5 Match SF. They both definitely have less snap. No idea on the longevity of the systems yet as I don’t have that many rounds down either’s pipe, but all have been 100% reliable so far.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 6:36:17 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By lasnyder:
I started USPSA in 1982 with a single stack .45.... at the time we tried anything to reduce the muzzle flip of the 175 power factor loads ... popular was the 200 grain load at over 875fps... I worked on flip rather than recoil per se... I ran a heavy spring 20-22# (exclusively ISMI when they cam out)... when I tried a tungsten guide rod, the pistol po-go'ed, and I did not like the feeling... I did shoot a full length un-captured guide rod with a reverse  plug, and a hole drilled so you could capture the spring with a "L" shaped piece of wire

IMHO there are better places to spend your money if you are serious about USPSA... a shot timer is a good starting place

Les L747
Limited M
View Quote


He’s shooting a modern semi auto striker fired 9mm. Tungsten guide rod to increase front end weight, reduced power heavy projectile load, and matched spring are definitely going to help.
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 9:26:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/23/2021 9:34:44 AM EST by u-baddog]
If what you're shooting runs 100% don't change a thing, wait until your gear is holding you back.
It will be awhile before functioning gear holds you back.

Try to squad up with the A/masters shooters and study them, you will learn a lot just by emulating their stage strategy.

Lots of insight into all things USPSA https://forums.brianenos.com

Link Posted: 1/23/2021 10:00:22 PM EST
Lots of good advise in this thread.

Little background, I’m a GM shooting CO and PCC but also started in Production and Limited.

A heavy guide rod, tuned springs and proper minor PF load will help.  Due to recoil characteristics and sight tracking I like 147’s in guns with irons and 124’s with optics.

However, you’ll find the most benefit the fastest with a solid dryfire program.  Dryfire is absolutely everything so get yourself a timer and some dryfire targets. Reasonable par times working on the basics: draw and presentation, reloads, transitions (using your legs not your hips/back/arms), and movement.  Unless you’re shooting a Classifier you’ll never be doing a flat footed reload so why practice them?  Even if it’s just taking two or three steps incorporate movement.

Squad up with better shooters, watch how they shoot stages and ask questions like “why did you shoot it that way?”  Chances are you’ll get surprising answers because everything is about efficiency in ways that you haven’t begun to think about.  There’s a saying that goes, “The difference between a B-Class and GM is how fast and efficiently you do everything when you’re not shooting.”  There’s a lot of truth to that... You’ve got to know how to shoot to be a B-Class... That takes skill.  It’s everything else that you really need to learn.

Also, buy this book:
Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 1/23/2021 10:27:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Voland:
Thanks everyone! I think to start,  I'm not going to do a thing but buy more ammo if I can find it. My biggest problem was consistency. I think I just need to go to more matches and see what I can learn before I go mucking things up.

My gear is all set up for "war figting" rather than competing so ill need to tune that first I think. I am sure I was the only one running a retention holster... lol.
View Quote



You're on the right track as far as doing nothing for at least 4-5 matches, IMO. If you're going to do anything at all, I would have the trigger improved somehow. Or perhaps better sights?

Retention holster in a match? Gee-zus, no wonder you came in dead last. Get a belt holster from Blade-Tech or something, it doesn't have to be expensive. Avoid Fobus or other $30 holsters.

Watch, watch, watch the better shooters! See how they do the "fast is smooth, smooth is fast" technique regardless of gun or holster. Don't be afraid to push yourself on time. Don't do it to the point of shooting a lot of mikes, but don't dawdle either.

Believe it or not, steel plate racks and/or Texas stars made me a much better pistol shooter than about anything else I tried. I realize ammo is short these days but maybe skip a match in favor of a steel plate match?

My .o2
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