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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:49:32 PM EDT
[#1]
If you start with a .38 Super, you can fit a 9mm barrel to the slide. The ejector will be short, though.
If you start with a 9mm, the ejector can be shortened and a 9mm barrel added. In either approach, I recommend .38 Super for serious use, and 9mm for practice. Having said that, mine has been reliable even with the short ejector. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 3:51:37 PM EDT
[#2]
.38 Super is more "authentic" and it's a great cartridge. That said, they appear to have made 9mms dependable and they are cheaper to shoot. More ammo choices too.
I gave my RIA .38 Super to my son. I still have a BUL double-stack .38 Super. If I get another 1911 it will probably be a nine. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:07:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you start with a .38 Super, you can fit a 9mm barrel to the slide. The ejector will be short, though. If you start with a 9mm, the ejector can be shortened and a 9mm barrel added. In either approach, I recommend .38 Super for serious use, and 9mm for practice. Having said that, mine has been reliable even with the short ejector. This was my intentions all along. 9mm for practice, .38 Super for business. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 4:08:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you start with a .38 Super, you can fit a 9mm barrel to the slide. The ejector will be short, though. If you start with a 9mm, the ejector can be shortened and a 9mm barrel added. In either approach, I recommend .38 Super for serious use, and 9mm for practice. Having said that, mine has been reliable even with the short ejector. FPNI +1 Colt Combat Commander in 38 super, 9mm threaded barrel, 9mm barrel. I load 38 supers hot and 147’s for quiet 9mm. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 5:37:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Why not .45 acp or 10 mm if you are after a 1911?
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Posted: 7/24/2022 8:17:26 PM EDT
[#6]
38 Super always though I maybe a bit biased.
38 Super is readily available and was all through the panic even when 9mm was unobtanium though it is more expensive by a fair margin. Reloading will make the cost the same as 9mm with the exception of buying brass. My experience with 38 Super is you can run mild to wild 115 at 1100fps no problem 147 at 1200 no problem 124s at 1400 no problem. Rather then swapping barrels and the like I simply load super to the performance level I want. As for magazines I don’t think anyone who’s offering 9mm isn’t also offering 38 super. I like Wilson’s but checkmates have been good to go also. I’ve had feeding issues with 9mm more so then 38 super. Super doesn’t seem to be as sensitive to OAL ime. There’s more ammo available in wider variety with 9mm no questions asked. But there’s respectable defensive offerings from several companies in 38 super as well. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 8:34:38 PM EDT
[#7]
This doesn't help but,
OP, IIRC once upon a time I read about a guy's 9x23 1911 I think the idea was, it was a diet .357 magnum  Get one of those. 
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Posted: 7/24/2022 10:14:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:This doesn't help but, OP, IIRC once upon a time I read about a guy's 9x23 1911. I think the idea was, it was a diet .357 magnum I fit a 9mm barrel to that pistol as well. I have specific firing pin stops and springs that I use for each caliber. The 9mm allows me to shoot for less money but the 9x23 is for when the balloon goes up. |
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Posted: 7/24/2022 11:22:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Any 9mm(9x19) barrel can be rechambered to a 9x23.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 7:34:06 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a 5" 1911 chambered in 9x23. There's nothing "diet" about it. Factory 125gr JHP ammo runs a solid 1450fps which matches the velocity of the same bullet weight coming out of a .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. 11 rounds of .357 Magnum in a 1911 is potent medicine. That's a 4-inch (revolver) barrel. Winchester 9X23 ammo is hard to find as it's produced occasionally and sells out quick. Other brand 9X23 (Buffalo Bore) is (or has been in the past) loaded in Starline 9X23 brass which is not as strong as Winchester brass. It's OK in a ramped barrel, but runs a risk of rupture in a conventional non-ramped barrel. 9X23 info: 9X23 article |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 10:42:23 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:That's a 4-inch (revolver) barrel. Quote HistoryQuoted:That's a 4-inch (revolver) barrel. Winchester 9X23 ammo is hard to find as it's produced occasionally and sells out quick. Other brand 9X23 (Buffalo Bore) is (or has been in the past) loaded in Starline 9X23 brass which is not as strong as Winchester brass. It's OK in a ramped barrel, but runs a risk of rupture in a conventional non-ramped barrel. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 10:48:36 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:Any 9mm(9x19) barrel can be rechambered to a 9x23.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 11:08:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's a 4-inch (revolver) barrel. Winchester 9X23 ammo is hard to find as it's produced occasionally and sells out quick. Other brand 9X23 (Buffalo Bore) is (or has been in the past) loaded in Starline 9X23 brass which is not as strong as Winchester brass. It's OK in a ramped barrel, but runs a risk of rupture in a conventional non-ramped barrel. 9X23 info: 9X23 article Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a 5" 1911 chambered in 9x23. There's nothing "diet" about it. Factory 125gr JHP ammo runs a solid 1450fps which matches the velocity of the same bullet weight coming out of a .357 Magnum with a 6" barrel. 11 rounds of .357 Magnum in a 1911 is potent medicine. That's a 4-inch (revolver) barrel. Winchester 9X23 ammo is hard to find as it's produced occasionally and sells out quick. Other brand 9X23 (Buffalo Bore) is (or has been in the past) loaded in Starline 9X23 brass which is not as strong as Winchester brass. It's OK in a ramped barrel, but runs a risk of rupture in a conventional non-ramped barrel. 9X23 info: 9X23 article Last time I figured up there data Lucky Gunner had something like 10 125gr loads they tested in a 4” GP100 and the average they got was right at 1375. That’s easy enough to do in 38 super I’d say the 6” figures for 9x23 is probably fairly accurate being it’s a 20k psi increase. ETA: Of course multiple guns in the same caliber and the same barrel length can chrono differently. And as Paul Harrell points out in his videos chronograph’s don’t always agree with each other and several factors can affect chronograph results. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 12:21:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dane Burns was a proponent of the 9x23. My recollection may not be right but I seem to remember him citing the 4" barrel. His explanation was that the cylinder gap resulted in lower muzzle velocity and that to achieve the 1450fps the revolver barrel had to be longer. It's a small point but I didn't want folks to think I was deliberately spewing nonsense. Dane has nothing to do with these ballistics. The 357 ballistics are from the manufacturers, and from actual chronographed loads, seen here: 357 Magnum ballistics from a 4" barrel Chronographed 9X23 ballistics are in the 9X23 article I posted previously. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 12:29:54 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Last time I figured up there data Lucky Gunner had something like 10 125gr loads they tested in a 4” GP100 and the average they got was right at 1375. That’s easy enough to do in 38 super I’d say the 6” figures for 9x23 is probably fairly accurate being it’s a 20k psi increase. ETA: Of course multiple guns in the same caliber and the same barrel length can chrono differently. And as Paul Harrell points out in his videos chronograph’s don’t always agree with each other and several factors can affect chronograph results. You can't use an "average" of 357 Magnum loads. Some 357 loads are deliberately watered down by the manufacturers. See the 357 Magnum ballistics in a 4" barrel I just provided the link for for an explanation and examples. Don't know what the "6-inch figures for 9X23" is a reference to. 9X23 data and references are from a 5" barrel. If you handload the 38 Super, you can match 9X23 ballistics in a 5" barrel and stay within 38 pressure limits with the right selection of gunpowders. handloading 38 Super |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 12:32:53 PM EDT
[#16]
rock island will not be worked on by john dixon one of the best 1911 gunsmiths in the country
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Posted: 7/25/2022 3:20:29 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: Last time I figured up there data Lucky Gunner had something like 10 125gr loads they tested in a 4” GP100 and the average they got was right at 1375. That’s easy enough to do in 38 super I’d say the 6” figures for 9x23 is probably fairly accurate being it’s a 20k psi increase. ETA: Of course multiple guns in the same caliber and the same barrel length can chrono differently. And as Paul Harrell points out in his videos chronograph’s don’t always agree with each other and several factors can affect chronograph results. You can't use an "average" of 357 Magnum loads. Some 357 loads are deliberately watered down by the manufacturers. See the 357 Magnum ballistics in a 4" barrel I just provided the link for for an explanation and examples. Don't know what the "6-inch figures for 9X23" is a reference to. 9X23 data and references are from a 5" barrel. If you handload the 38 Super, you can match 9X23 ballistics in a 5" barrel and stay within 38 pressure limits with the right selection of gunpowders. handloading 38 Super Sorry for the lack of clarity there. The “6” figures for 9x23” I was referring to were in reference to the above mention that 9x23 was comparable to 6” barreled 357 rather then 4”. No explanation needed I’m well aware some are watered down and that they can far surpass what a lot of manufacturers choose to load. Of 38 Super loads I used the article you linked awhile back working up loads excellent article. I got 1436fps with a 124 using AA#7 in 38 Super in a commander they got a bit better in a government. Even removing the average looking at Lucky Gunners Data and each individual loading and I’m beating all but two of the 125 loads they chrono’d through a 4” GP100. One of those being a Buffalo bore at 1644fps and the other being 1479fps from Remington. Looking at the data you linked and the two guns firing only 125s and I’m beating 4 of 10 and coming within 25fps of 2 more the rest only being 75 or so more. My point being with those powders a 38 super in 124gr bullets is getting similar velocities and energy to 357 magnum in 125gr from a 4” barrel. By that reasoning and the significantly higher allowable max pressure I would think with the same types of powders would see a high enough increase in velocities to see similar results in 9x23 in a government, to 357 data from typical loadings in a 6” barrel. Though I could be way off on that maybe it’s not a big enough gain to do it. I don’t have a 9x23 it’s always intrigued me but there’s not really anything I want to do with a .355 bullet that I’m not able to with a 38 Super to justify it. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 3:41:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: By that reasoning and the significantly higher allowable max pressure I would think with the same types of powders would see a high enough increase in velocities to see similar results in 9x23 in a government, to 357 data from typical loadings in a 6” barrel. Though I could be way off on that. I don’t have a 9x23 it’s always intrigued me but there’s not really anything I want to do with a .355 bullet that I’m not able to with a 38 Super to justify it. The thing about the 9X23 is that the original Winchester brass has very thick walls, which significantly reduces case volume. For that reason, some bulky powders can't get enough in it to perform well. And with any powder, the reduced volume means pressure must be higher to reach the desired velocity. That's one of the reasons you can get the 38 Super to produce the same velocity as the 9X23 yet stay within 38 Super pressure limits. The 38 Super case, with its 'normal' case wall thickness has much more case volume than the 9X23. The significantly greater case volume allows you to keep pressure low while producing high speed. Still, your point is valid. Even Winchester's own load data (15th Edition) for the 9X23 with WAP (Silhouette) shows you can get its high speed (a 125 grain @ 1,435 fps) at pressure (46,000 psi) below the max pressure limit of the 9X23 round (55,000 psi). So there is a little room to work with. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 4:01:38 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The thing about the 9X23 is that the original Winchester brass has very thick walls, which significantly reduces case volume. For that reason, some bulky powders can't get enough in it to perform well. And with any powder, the reduced volume means pressure must be higher to reach the desired velocity. That's one of the reasons you can get the 38 Super to produce the same velocity as the 9X23 yet stay within 38 Super pressure limits. The 38 Super case, with its 'normal' case wall thickness has much more case volume than the 9X23. The significantly greater case volume allows you to keep pressure low while producing high speed. Still, your point is valid. Even Winchester's own load data (15th Edition) for the 9X23 with WAP (Silhouette) shows you can get its high speed (a 125 grain @ 1,435 fps) at pressure (46,000 psi) below the max pressure limit of the 9X23 round (55,000 psi). So there is a little room to work with. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: By that reasoning and the significantly higher allowable max pressure I would think with the same types of powders would see a high enough increase in velocities to see similar results in 9x23 in a government, to 357 data from typical loadings in a 6” barrel. Though I could be way off on that. I don’t have a 9x23 it’s always intrigued me but there’s not really anything I want to do with a .355 bullet that I’m not able to with a 38 Super to justify it. The thing about the 9X23 is that the original Winchester brass has very thick walls, which significantly reduces case volume. For that reason, some bulky powders can't get enough in it to perform well. And with any powder, the reduced volume means pressure must be higher to reach the desired velocity. That's one of the reasons you can get the 38 Super to produce the same velocity as the 9X23 yet stay within 38 Super pressure limits. The 38 Super case, with its 'normal' case wall thickness has much more case volume than the 9X23. The significantly greater case volume allows you to keep pressure low while producing high speed. Still, your point is valid. Even Winchester's own load data (15th Edition) for the 9X23 with WAP (Silhouette) shows you can get its high speed (a 125 grain @ 1,435 fps) at pressure (46,000 psi) below the max pressure limit of the 9X23 round (55,000 psi). So there is a little room to work with. Didn’t think about the thickness issues that would certainly help it at those velocities from issues but hinder working room for further development. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 6:10:58 PM EDT
[#20]
My feeling is that the 38 Super is better suited for heavier bullets and slower burning powders, due to its larger case capacity.
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Posted: 7/25/2022 6:29:16 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My feeling is that the 38 Super is better suited for heavier bullets and slower burning powders, due to its larger case capacity. I’ve had pretty good luck with 147s I tried 158s but haven’t tried them further |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 8:15:14 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve had pretty good luck with 147s I tried 158s but haven’t tried them further I like the Saeco 383. 145 gr vey long nose TC/SWC type. 2nd from the right. From left to right, Lyman 356402(121 gr), Mihec HG 275 clone(135 gr), Saeco 383(145 gr), commercial Dardas(124 gr). I've had the Lyman mold for 40+ years, and I don't care for it. There's no shoulder, so it doesn't cut distinct holes. 
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Posted: 7/26/2022 11:46:47 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like the Saeco 383. 145 gr vey long nose TC/SWC type. 2nd from the right. From left to right, Lyman 356402(121 gr), Mihec HG 275 clone(135 gr), Saeco 383(145 gr), commercial Dardas(124 gr). I've had the Lyman mold for 40+ years, and I don't care for it. There's no shoulder, so it doesn't cut distinct holes. https://i.imgur.com/1CAKFd9.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’ve had pretty good luck with 147s I tried 158s but haven’t tried them further I like the Saeco 383. 145 gr vey long nose TC/SWC type. 2nd from the right. From left to right, Lyman 356402(121 gr), Mihec HG 275 clone(135 gr), Saeco 383(145 gr), commercial Dardas(124 gr). I've had the Lyman mold for 40+ years, and I don't care for it. There's no shoulder, so it doesn't cut distinct holes. https://i.imgur.com/1CAKFd9.jpg Love that Saeco might have to give those a go! I had a local bullet maker opps ran a batch of 158 LSWC through a .355 sizing die. I’ve tried them need to revisit it though I thought that would make a interesting load for plinking. |
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Posted: 7/26/2022 6:54:57 PM EDT
[#24]
.355”? Seems a little small to me. My barrels slug at .356+”, so I’m sizing to at least.357”.
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Posted: 7/27/2022 6:03:51 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: .355”? Seems a little small to me. My barrels slug at .356+”, so I’m sizing to at least.357”. We were more or less trying to figure out what to do with a quantity of powder coated bullets that were heavy and undersized |
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Posted: 7/31/2022 12:15:55 PM EDT
[#26]
I think I've pretty much decided that I am going to go the .38 Super route. Several articles by John Taffin of American Handgunner fame was the catalyst to making me want a Super many years ago. I think now is the time to get one. I know that ammo is going to be more expensive and harder to come by, but I am going to do it at my earliest convenience. Thanks for all the input.
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Posted: 7/31/2022 12:27:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think I've pretty much decided that I am going to go the .38 Super route. Several articles by John Taffin of American Handgunner fame was the catalyst to making me want a Super many years ago. I think now is the time to get one. I know that ammo is going to be more expensive and harder to come by, but I am going to do it at my earliest convenience. Thanks for all the input. It’s an excellent cartridge I don’t believe it will disappoint. For the ammo situation it’s the cartridge that got me into reloading for that very reason. Have you picked your gun yet? |
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Posted: 8/4/2022 9:09:14 AM EDT
[#28]
I went through this two years ago and couldn't find any 38 Super 1911s in stock. I ended up buying a RIA 9mm and then ordered a 38 Super barrel and magazines from RIA.
I probably should have bought lottery tickets since the 38 Super barrel dropped in without any hand fitting. On my 9mm RIA I did not change or shorten the ejector. The 9mm ejector ejects loaded 38 Super rounds and empty case just fine. |
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Posted: 8/6/2022 5:10:52 PM EDT
[#29]
So I ended up going with the 9mm RIA. Can't find anyone with a .38 Super and looking for ammo, I am finding that it is stupid expensive. A .38 Super barrel is in the works for the future.
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Posted: 8/7/2022 9:24:02 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So I ended up going with the 9mm RIA. Can't find anyone with a .38 Super and looking for ammo, I am finding that it is stupid expensive. A .38 Super barrel is in the works for the future. You are better off reloading 38 Super since not many places even carry it. I already had 38 ACP dies for reloading 9mm Largo so it was a no brainer for me. Yes you use the same dies for 9mm Largo, 38 ACP, and 38 Super. I use Starline brass for both 9mm Largo and 38 Super. Here is a factory ramped 38 Super barrel https://advancedtactical.com/1911-government-model-5-fs-38super-ramped-bushing-type-parkerized-w-link-pin/ And OEM 38 Super magazines (MetalForm or MecGar); 9 round mags https://advancedtactical.com/1911-fs-a1-38-super-9rnd-nickel-finish-mec-gar/ 10 round mags https://advancedtactical.com/1911-fs-a1-38-super-10rnd-stainless-steel-metalform/ Advanced Tactical is the Armscor/RIA store front for parts and accessories. I bought my 38 Super barrel and magazines from them. |
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Posted: 8/7/2022 1:14:28 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are better off reloading 38 Super since not many places even carry it. I already had 38 ACP dies for reloading 9mm Largo so it was a no brainer for me. Yes you use the same dies for 9mm Largo, 38 ACP, and 38 Super. I use Starline brass for both 9mm Largo and 38 Super. Here is a factory ramped 38 Super barrel https://advancedtactical.com/1911-government-model-5-fs-38super-ramped-bushing-type-parkerized-w-link-pin/ And OEM 38 Super magazines (MetalForm or MecGar); 9 round mags https://advancedtactical.com/1911-fs-a1-38-super-9rnd-nickel-finish-mec-gar/ 10 round mags https://advancedtactical.com/1911-fs-a1-38-super-10rnd-stainless-steel-metalform/ Advanced Tactical is the Armscor/RIA store front for parts and accessories. I bought my 38 Super barrel and magazines from them. Thanks for the intel. This is by far the least inexpensive route I was thinking of taking. I ordered more 9mm mags last night and a set of grips. I want to replace the rear sight with the 10-8 National Match rear sight. Would you know what the appropriate blade front sight that would correspond? |
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Posted: 8/8/2022 9:57:23 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the intel. This is by far the least inexpensive route I was thinking of taking. I ordered more 9mm mags last night and a set of grips. I want to replace the rear sight with the 10-8 National Match rear sight. Would you know what the appropriate blade front sight that would correspond? You're welcome. I can say Advanced Tactical is usually very fast with shipping. I got lucky with my 38 Super barrel and did not have to do any hand fitting. That normally does not happen very often. Unfortunately I do not know off the top of my head what front sight height you will need with the 10-8 NM rear sight. |
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Posted: 8/13/2022 3:24:13 PM EDT
[#33]
It's always something.
I want to switch out the mainspring housing and cannot find an checkered arched mainspring housing. I want a Smith and Alexander, but try and find one. And forget about rat tailed grip safeties FML |
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Posted: 8/16/2022 8:18:07 PM EDT
[#34]
I always ordered directly from S and A... Old school though the phone.
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Posted: 8/20/2022 3:48:46 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's always something. I want to switch out the mainspring housing and cannot find an checkered arched mainspring housing. I want a Smith and Alexander, but try and find one. And forget about rat tailed grip safeties FML Sarco came through on the grip safety. Now I just need to get the appropriate front sight to match the National Match rear sight. |
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Posted: 9/3/2022 3:24:10 PM EDT
[#36]
New issue -
Fitting a new magazine catch from 10-8 Performance The magazine catch doesn't come with internal parts so I used the existing spring and catch lock in the new part. Installing the part and turning the spring lock and it fails to lock into place. Looking at both parts, the new magazine catch does not have the spring lock notch as deep as the OEM part. I have been corresponding with Hilton Yam who has been absolutely great in providing technical support and advise in a timely fashion. I wrote to him today and sent a picture of the part so that he can advise further. |
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Posted: 9/10/2022 9:01:37 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why not .45 acp or 10 mm if you are after a 1911? Much like the versatility that OP seems to leaning towards. |
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Posted: 9/13/2022 3:48:25 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 9/13/2022 8:59:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why not .45 acp or 10 mm if you are after a 1911? /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/medium-398.gif  I'd take a 200gr swc @ 1000fps as a gp/sd/EDC load over nearly any other semi load out there. 255gr @ 950fps is a nice hunting load. Nothing wrong with the super except it's harder to find brass and I like stacking ammo deep. |
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Posted: 9/25/2022 2:23:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Anyone have any experience with this - Infinity® Firearms - Interlocking Trigger System?
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