Just looking for recommendations on 380 defensive ammo.

So far, based on the LuckyGunner test results I've been carrying Federal HST.  According to the test data, based on those small sample sizes it seems to penetrate almost TOO far but doesn't seem to expand very much.  I figured I'd ask here as maybe someone knows a better choice or information that might lead me away from Federal HST in 380.

Caveat: this was done at the end of 2013 which means that new ammo produced after this time was not considered in his conclusions, so there may actually be better choices here in September 2018.

.380 is a hard little beast to find good ammo for. For the most part, they either expand well and don't penetrate adequately, or the penetrate well and don't expand adequately. There just isn't enough energy there to do both, like you can get in 9mm, .40 and .45.

If you subscribe to the FBI methodology for picking ammo, there are a few loads that will both penetrate reasonably well in .380 (at least 12" in organic gel, no more than 18") and expand much at all. Even those that can expand, do so very modestly, nowhere near the .6"+ sizes that you can get out of regular service calibers. Of those that meet these guidelines, the best seem to be any of the various loads using Hornady's XTP bullet. Fed Hydra Shoks are a close second, but they don't seem to expand well at all and, when they do expand, they usually expand unevenly. They do, however, usually stop before penetrating 18", which reduces risks of overpenetration. Gold Dots also seem to work well, but usually stop just short of 12". The XTP loads can usually penetrate at least 12" (not much more, but they do seem to reliably exceed 12") and they do expand some (not large, IIRC about .4-.45", but they do also reliably expand) and seem to do so even with through clothing. There are some expressing concerns about results in Clear Gel, concerns that the gel may not work as reliably and as repeatably as regular organic gel. As an example, in Shooting The Bull's testing, HSTs don't penetrate well (again, IIRC, only 9-10" or so) but they do expand very well. STB started out using Clear Gel for some testing but stopped using it because he was having issues, and only used regular organic gel for later testing, including his HST testing. In contrast, Lucky Gunner uses Clear Gel exclusively, and some of their testing differs from testing done in organic gel. This is one of those times when "you pays your money and you takes your chance". Myself, because of a lot of research, I tend to believe repeatable results in organic gel over Clear Gel.

If you are interested in some of the "exotic" loads, like the Lehigh Xtreme Defense or Xtreme Penetrator, I'd be very careful with them. I'll preface my remarks by saying that I WANT them to work. However, I don't think they will, and I'll tell you why. Because of my work (I'm the rangemaster for the PD I work for and get to make all the decisions about guns and ammo), I have taken some classes about terminal ballistics, as well as doing my own research out of interest in the subject. Without going too deep into the weeds, at pistol velocities (less than about 2200 FPS), human tissues do not rip and tear, they just get kinda pushed out of the way, then snap back into place because you haven't exceeded the elastic limits of the human tissue. All pistol bullets do is poke a hole and the bullet cant destroy any tissue that it doesn't touch. Both organic gel and Clear Gel are more rigid than human tissues, and the only results they are supposed to show reliably are approximate penetration and approximate expansion. That is all, just approximate penetration and approximate expansion. All the damage you see along the wound tracks in gel just don't equate to human tissues because the gel is more rigid and not as elastic as human tissues. As a result, I'm extremely skeptical about the claims made about the Xtreme bullets. Because they don't exceed 2200 FPS, logically all they should do is push tissue out of the way and only work about as well as standard FMJ bullets. Without exceeding 2200 FPS, I can't see these bullets doing what the manufacturers say they will do. Like I said, I hope I'm wrong and they work, but until we get actual shooting results, I won't hold my breath.

Bottom line, my advice is to pick any of the loads using Hornady's XTP bullet and, as long as they will feed in your gun, you should be OK. Good luck with your decision.

Bub75

From the tests I've seen, XTP is the way to go in .380. Seems to meet the minimum penetration in the 12-18in window more consistently than the other loads.

Underwood +p XTP load.

Thanks to everyone for the advice and recommendations.  Sounds like I'll be switching to XTP.

Bub75,

Thank you so much for your well written, and excellent post.  It was interesting, and helpful.  I always find your posts informative.  Thank you.

I run XTP's in my G42, prefer the ones loaded to '+p' but regular Hornady ones meet the fbi standards and generally expand properly.

Xtp bullet.

I like underwood the best but Hornady or Fiocchi will do for me as well.

I'd be happy with FMJ's for this caliber. But yeah Hornady is probably ok too. Mix and match

I keep XTP in my wife's 380.

You're welcome. Not a problem at all and thanks for your kind words.

I forgot to add. My current carry in my G42, and the load that my PD currently issues for .380, is Speer Gold Dot. When we run out, we're switching to Hornady American Gunner with the XTP bullet.

Bub75

Just had an additional question on this topic...

I've switched the Glock 42 over to 380 Hornady Custom 90gr. XTP.  Tested it at the range and it ran just fine, and accurate.

However, I noticed there was a very similar round...the Hornady Critical Defense 90gr FTX.  I see that the FTX bullet has that red "plug" in the nose while the XTP bullet is a traditional hollow point.

Out of curiousity I looked it up on LuckyGunner's tests that compared it to the XTP and it seemed like the Critical Defense FTX round did pretty well.  It penetrated an inch less on average but expanded to .52", while the XTP expanded to .39".

I realize that this is just ballstics gel data, but I certainly don't know a lot about ballistics so its the best info I have access to.

Does anyone have any thoughts on the 90gr. FTX vs. 90gr. XTP?

One of the several loads using XTP bullets or the old Federal Hyda-Shok loading seem to be recommended.  I'm of the opinion that any .380 hole in someone is better than a sharp stick for self defense.

Again, this is going to depend on whether you put credence in Clear Gel. Per Lucky Gunner's testing (in Clear Gel), FTX bullets perform reasonably well. If you go by ShootingTheBull410, who used standard organic gel, FTX doesn't work nearly as well. IIRC (it's been a while since I checked ShootingTheBull410's FTX data, so I may have some of it wrong), the FTX doesn't expand well at all and doesn't penetrate well. I've seen this performance out of FTX in other calibers when tested, so I don't think it's a fluke. Unless you have long, service length barrels (4" or longer), the FTX bullets don't seem to perform very well, even in standard service calibers. The XTP was a much better choice in .380. Again, choose what you are happy with, load it up, make sure it works in your particular gun and practice, practice, practice. For the most part, shot placement will trump bullet performance in marginal calibers like .380. Good luck.

Bub75

Thanks again Bub75.

The Hornady Custom 90 gr. XTP that I have shoots really well out of the Glock 42 so looks like that what I'll go with.  Thanks for the additional info about the FTX bullets as, just as you described, the clear-gel tests made me really think they were probably better than they were.  I never like to go just by one type of test though, so the additional information helped a lot.

Thank you sir.