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Posted: 9/16/2020 9:44:06 PM EDT
[#1]
Just my opinion, but if you want a revolver to do the job of a rifle you need to feed it the best ammo that you can get your hands on. I would go with heavy, hard cast bullets and hope to punch all the way through, hopefully with some major bones in the path. When I lived in Alaska I carried my .44 with 300+ grain hard cast bullets and still felt undergunned. Granted black bears weren't the bears that were my primary concern, but I have no desire to be eaten by any bear. I'd run the heavy shit. Odds are a 20 round box will last you a great many years, even with firing off a couple now and then for fun.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:03:59 PM EDT
[#2]
I used to carry a S&W Model 65 as a woods gun but when I bought a couple 640-1 .357 J frames I started carrying one of those instead. I use Buffalo Bore 180gr hard cast in both. Here in Texas not much in the way of bears to worry about. More cougars than anything depending on where in the state I am.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:06:08 PM EDT
[#3]
5-shot revolver as a bear gun? With a caliber that doesn't begin with a 4?
 Only 5-shot wheel gun I'd feel comfortable carrying in bear country is my 500 S&W magnum. I much prefer my 10mm Glock 20 stoked with 15+1 of 230-grain hardcast slugs. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:19:22 PM EDT
[#4]
180 gr. cast bullets is your best choice for a .357 if you want good penetration.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:35:45 PM EDT
[#5]
Hard to go wrong with 173gr Keith or 180gr WFN.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 10:59:13 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't have a problem with .357 hardcast, it's one of my favorite handloads.
That said, you would probably be better served with a shotgun and slugs. Come to think of it, maybe this is an actual real world use for a Mossberg Shockwave? Contact shot bear defense. 
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Posted: 9/16/2020 11:09:48 PM EDT
[#7]
Gun is too small also need more hp for the bullet.
How about 44 mag to start with first. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 5:50:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Would the 158 SJSP Suffice? Yes, most likely. Nothing wrong with the other loads mentioned, but odds are the 158 grain will do the job. Black bears are not Godzilla. In Russia, handguns a lot lighter than that have a good track record over the years. Not that I recommend a 7.62 Nagant for bear. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 6:01:15 AM EDT
[#9]
From what I can tell there has been one bear attack in history in KY. So I wouldn’t worry too much. Most likely you would be fine with some 38s in there but hard cast should be good too.
Hell we had a black bear sighted just down the street from my kids daycare and I went with the 9mm I typically carry. Unless you are in griz country ignore all the shotgun/44/500 suggestions and rock on with yours |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 6:22:30 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I can tell there has been one bear attack in history in KY. So I wouldn’t worry too much. Most likely you would be fine with some 38s in there but hard cast should be good too. Hell we had a black bear sighted just down the street from my kids daycare and I went with the 9mm I typically carry. Unless you are in griz country ignore all the shotgun/44/500 suggestions and rock on with yours This isn’t brown/polar bear country. A 44 or 500 is fun and all but not strictly necessary. Yes, a 4” barrel .357 Mag is fine for black bear. Sure, something hardcast might do better than a SP/HP. But you are probably more likely to end up needing that gun against some meth heads than against a bear. So personally, I would probably stick with the SJSP. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 8:26:38 AM EDT
[#11]
The 158s should be fine
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Posted: 9/17/2020 10:12:24 AM EDT
[#12]
For KY black bear size, some buffalo bore or Grizzly brand hardcast or outdoorsman loads should be fine. If you can't get them, the hottest/heaviest .357 load you can find will do.
More likely to deal with wildcats than bear anyway. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 11:00:27 AM EDT
[#13]
back in the early 80's I was shooting IHMSA metallic silhouette...I cast a 180 grain .357 flat nose designed for a .35 cal rifle...back then wheel weights had enough tin and antimony for casting lead that when dropped into water made a pretty hard bullet
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Posted: 9/17/2020 1:15:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Your gun and load is fine.
a) Your odds of having an attack by a black bear is a billion to 1 (number of people out in the woods X number of times they're out in the woods/ 1). b) I've hunted black bears and shot one with a 10mm and it wasn't all that dramatic. c) I know plenty of outdoorsmen here in Alaska that carries a Glock 10mm for protection from all bears and I haven't heard anyone that got killed that's armed with a 10mm. I consider the 10mm and the 357 mag very close in power. d) Sad, but your odds of getting attacked by two legged animals is more likely than a bear attack in KY. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 1:54:38 PM EDT
[#15]
Hot loaded .357 loads out of an SP-101 range from no fun to downright painful.
They recoil fast and hard with the small grip that is on the gun. Unless you really practice after the first shot, you are going to be readjusting your grip to get back on target. If you want to carry and shoot hot loaded .357, I would suggest a different gun. For your purposes, a decent 158gr 357 should work fine. |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 7:54:43 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your gun and load is fine. a) Your odds of having an attack by a black bear is a billion to 1 (number of people out in the woods X number of times they're out in the woods/ 1). b) I've hunted black bears and shot one with a 10mm and it wasn't all that dramatic. c) I know plenty of outdoorsmen here in Alaska that carries a Glock 10mm for protection from all bears and I haven't heard anyone that got killed that's armed with a 10mm. I consider the 10mm and the 357 mag very close in power. d) Sad, but your odds of getting attacked by two legged animals is more likely than a bear attack in KY. Or, getting struck by Lightning. Or, winning Power Ball. But hey, everyone needs something to ruminate over.... |
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Posted: 9/17/2020 8:37:39 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hot loaded .357 loads out of an SP-101 range from no fun to downright painful. They recoil fast and hard with the small grip that is on the gun. Unless you really practice after the first shot, you are going to be readjusting your grip to get back on target. If you want to carry and shoot hot loaded .357, I would suggest a different gun. For your purposes, a decent 158gr 357 should work fine. First thing I did was to replace the stock grips with Hogue grips. The factory grips were a bit “Uncomfortable” with the heavy loads. Much improved now and follow up shots aren’t that big a problem. I’m a long time revolver guy accustomed to magnum recoil. |
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Posted: 9/18/2020 11:57:38 AM EDT
[#18]
If I had good SJSP's and black bear was the biggest thing I might encounter I would be perfectly happy.
Even a little more so if I had XTP's. I'd also be content with hard cast game bullets but wouldn't go out of my way if I had on hand either of the first two options. |
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Posted: 9/18/2020 12:43:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: First thing I did was to replace the stock grips with Hogue grips. The factory grips were a bit “Uncomfortable” with the heavy loads. Much improved now and follow up shots aren’t that big a problem. I’m a long time revolver guy accustomed to magnum recoil. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Hot loaded .357 loads out of an SP-101 range from no fun to downright painful. They recoil fast and hard with the small grip that is on the gun. Unless you really practice after the first shot, you are going to be readjusting your grip to get back on target. If you want to carry and shoot hot loaded .357, I would suggest a different gun. For your purposes, a decent 158gr 357 should work fine. First thing I did was to replace the stock grips with Hogue grips. The factory grips were a bit “Uncomfortable” with the heavy loads. Much improved now and follow up shots aren’t that big a problem. I’m a long time revolver guy accustomed to magnum recoil. I am a heavy magnum revolver guy as well (44mag through 500 JRH) but the SP101 with heavy loads is still snappy even with the Hogue grips. Even with the Hogues installed the grip still feels small in my hand adding to the perceived recoil. The SP-101 will certainly put up with it. I have launched some HOT reloads out of mine and other than the energetic recoil, the gun and accuracy was fine. |
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Posted: 9/18/2020 1:02:30 PM EDT
[#20]
The bears that I have shot with .357 would agree that a 158 sp works just fine. Folks get pretty excited about hard cast, but I get pass through and expansion from a soft point. Sure, I get to pick my shot when hunting, and defense is a little different. I figure I will just shoot it in the face. If I get lucky and get into the brain, great. If not, hopefully I break the jaws so it can't bite very hard. Truth be told though, I have never had any issues with black bears - with one sow/cub exception, but it ended peacefully. I probably see 20+ bears a year in the woods just hiking, many quite close. Hunting in the spring I see easy that in a week. I have taken them with a 45-70, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H, 44 mag, and 357 mag, carbine and handgun. Bears are powerful animals, but not hard to kill.
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Posted: 9/20/2020 5:38:45 PM EDT
[#21]
When I carry my 640-1 I use 158gr American eagle sjsp. But 9 outta 10x when I come across a bear I have a 22 on me
The last one I snuck up on. Got about 10yds away. Yelled Hey Bear!! That thing jumped straight up in the air. Eyes bulging from it's skull and High Tailed! To the next county!! Since the 1st bear print I saw here in CT in 03. They've really exploded in population. Ive only had one bear that worried me. Big and unafraid. Stalked my dog multiple times. Stalked my wife and kids. I chased it many times. Ended up killing some livestock down the road. Then one am. I heard a single gunshot. Never saw that bear again. |
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Posted: 10/2/2020 8:55:53 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When I carry my 640-1 I use 158gr American eagle sjsp. But 9 outta 10x when I come across a bear I have a 22 on me The last one I snuck up on. Got about 10yds away. Yelled Hey Bear!! That thing jumped straight up in the air. Eyes bulging from it's skull and High Tailed! To the next county!! [color=#0000ff] Since the 1st bear print I saw here in CT in 03. They've really exploded in population. [color=#0000ff] Ive only had one bear that worried me. Big and unafraid. Stalked my dog multiple times. Stalked my wife and kids. I chased it many times. Ended up killing some livestock down the road. Then one am. I heard a single gunshot. Never saw that bear again. OP, 158 or 180 grain Hard Cast Keith's from Underwood or Buffalo Bore will be more than fine for Black Bear and 2 legged butt-holes! We "had" a Black Bear that wasn't scared of my big cornbread ass... Our big German Shepherd either... It had a "radio collar" on his neck because he was already a "Problem Bear" that had been relocated once before to the Nantahala National Forest that borders our family Mountain Home. He did thousands of dollars of damage (especially in the winter months) to the cabine... stalked me, by dog, my wife and our daughter and in-laws at times as well... Tried to get into the garage wanting the grease and meat remnants left on the grill after steaks/burgers/fish a lot after we went to bed/lights out. Fish and Game wouldn't do a damn thing about it either. One evening near dusk I "heard" a couple pops too and instantly no more BB problems. "F" that bear and all those that allowed it to run off the Reservation unchecked! I carried/carry a Smith & Wesson M24 stoked with 255 grain Hard Cast Keiths rated about 1,075fps. Those are sick rounds that will push and plow nose forward from snout to button hole on a 300-350LBS Black Bear. This winter I'm going to try carrying either my 4" 1911 Springer or my CZ 97B (10+1) shot semi-auto's that both reliably run Underwood's 255 grain .45ACP+P "Keith's"; in an adjustable drop leg holster, concealed by an overcoat for faster draw times & reloads. The problem bear is gone now but their is much hated Homeowner that thinks it's out of control Pit-Bulls make him and his hideous bearded wife more manly... and several dogs in the neighborhood have received 150+ stitches each from "Run-In's" with this POS and it's Pit-Bulls... Even the Elderly neighbors have all started carrying handguns for the first time in their lives because of this Pitt-Bull/Bad Owner problem. Wood's Carry/hiking/fishing/kayaking Rig around the Mountain House M24 and OEM Smith Holster...    Springer 1911 4" Bull Barrel'd 1911 and CZ 97B below. One of them will be carried come early Winter...  |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 11:05:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryJust got the same gun. Try 6gr unique under a 255gr swc. 850fps and easy to shoot. |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 11:20:26 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't have a problem with .357 hardcast, it's one of my favorite handloads. That said, you would probably be better served with a shotgun and slugs. Come to think of it, maybe this is an actual real world use for a Mossberg Shockwave? Contact shot bear defense. The last ditch effort yes. I think I would want a whole shotgun for accuracy (user accuracy not the mechanical accuracy of the shockwave) at a bit longer distance. Brown bear gets within my 40 yard circle and I am ready to start shooting. At thirty yards I already would have shot if he is heading toward me. Black bears don’t really worry me other than nuisance damage. I had a visit this year, first time in this area for me at home. Got into my garbage can outside the garage. When I lived in bear country I was more strict with keeping the garbage can in a sturdy shed. |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 12:04:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard to go wrong with 173gr Keith or 180gr WFN. |
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Posted: 10/3/2020 9:22:08 PM EDT
[#26]
I’m in VA, and have some 180gr HSM 357 bear load.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 9:36:54 AM EDT
[#27]
I'd go with solids over JSP, but I would also not volunteer to take a JSP myself. Better than a .22. Regarding capacity; in a charge where he/she truly means business, you will be very fortunate to get off 2-3 before they are on you. Consider that when selecting a load, and take the time to place the shot and make 'em count, regardless of caliber. The 5-6 shot argument pretty much comes down to how many rounds do you want to be able to fire at point blank while being mauled/beat up.
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Posted: 10/18/2020 7:16:29 PM EDT
[#28]
There may be JSP's that expand at handgun velocities, I haven't found any so others may comment on that but all JSP's I've used in .357 and .44 mag out of 2 1/2" to 6 1/2" barrels have acted very similar to a medium-hard cast bullet. They may tend to flatten, to the point of a wadcutter shape (I consider that a good thing), some don't flatten that much. So penetration is very good.
Go to a carbine barrel length and .44 WWB turns into a nicely expanding bullet, acts like a solid out of 4" for me. So depending on what bullet performance you're looking for (at least some) cheap JSP's can work well. I stumbled on a bunch of .44 mag WWB, pennies on the dollar. They violently roll up coyotes out of a carbine. |
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Posted: 10/21/2020 9:59:27 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just got the same gun. Try 6gr unique under a 255gr swc. 850fps and easy to shoot. I always agree with you bro... But I'll take the 75fps more just in case in this particular case needs it for popping just that much harder into enemy fur... |
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Posted: 10/22/2020 12:43:17 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always agree with you bro... But I'll take the 75fps more just in case in this particular case needs it for popping just that much harder into enemy fur... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just got the same gun. Try 6gr unique under a 255gr swc. 850fps and easy to shoot. I always agree with you bro... But I'll take the 75fps more just in case in this particular case needs it for popping just that much harder into enemy fur... Nothing wrong with that. Now that I have a fbfp retainer in my lw champion and a chronograph I might try to push it a little faster |
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Posted: 10/22/2020 10:08:18 AM EDT
[#31]
Meh, never really worried about black bears. I've carried a 642 as my primary hiking/backpacking gun for the last couple of decades; in the mountains I usually load it with either 158gr Keith style rounds or 158gr swchp, both in +P.
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Posted: 12/29/2020 6:16:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just got the same gun. Try 6gr unique under a 255gr swc. 850fps and easy to shoot. Will do! Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 10:43:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Poor black bears. They aren't nearly the problem some make them out to be. A loud voice and a mean look are usually good enough. Black bears just aren't all that aggressive, normally.
https://wiseaboutbears.org/about-us/bear-attacks-2/ So, yeah, any .357 would be fine as you will probably never actually need to use it on a black bear and works very well on the most dangerous animal you'll likely encounter - humans. |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 11:50:12 AM EDT
[#34]
I luckily got a few boxes of this for my 4" GP100 before ChiFlu hit for when we visit CO & northern NM
 Attached Filehttps://www.federalpremium.com/handgun/fusion/fusion-handgun/11-F357FS1.html |
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Posted: 12/29/2020 11:25:47 PM EDT
[#35]
I would say yes, but definitely stick to 158gr or heavier. I do think bigger is better but a 158gr .357 can penetrate quite deep, so for black bear, I think it's just fine.
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Posted: 12/30/2020 8:39:51 AM EDT
[#36]
158s should be fine. Cor-Bon used to manufacture a 200 gr hard cast .357 Magnum load, and they may still. Those rounds will get your attention when you fire them, especially out of a 3" SP101, even with Hogue grips. That was the heaviest and heaviest recoiling .357 factory round I ever found.
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Posted: 12/30/2020 10:13:41 AM EDT
[#37]
Glock 19 for dogs, cats, and 2 legged critters. Black bears are more scared of you and the occasional one that isn’t the 19 will work as well.
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Posted: 12/30/2020 10:16:56 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I used to carry a S&W Model 65 as a woods gun but when I bought a couple 640-1 .357 J frames I started carrying one of those instead. I use Buffalo Bore 180gr hard cast in both. Here in Texas not much in the way of bears to worry about. More cougars than anything depending on where in the state I am. Your ammo choice is sound, but have you actually SHOT that Buffalo Bore in a 5 shot J Frame? I can't imagine.... |
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Posted: 12/30/2020 10:23:20 AM EDT
[#39]
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Posted: 12/30/2020 12:28:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard to go wrong with 173gr Keith or 180gr WFN. |
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Posted: 12/31/2020 11:52:00 PM EDT
[#41]
I think a lot of people here are confusing Black Bears (not that big or agressive) with Griz The FL panhandle is full of black bears and no attacks. There are currently 3 in my subdivision. What you carry to DRT the metheads will work on the black bears you are not going to need to shoot.
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Posted: 1/1/2021 7:57:32 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think a lot of people here are confusing Black Bears (not that big or agressive) with Griz The FL panhandle is full of black bears and no attacks. There are currently 3 in my subdivision. What you carry to DRT the metheads will work on the black bears you are not going to need to shoot. I'm not confusing them. Black and cinnamon bears where I visit northern NM and CO. Black and cinnamon bears are generally the least aggressive bears, but still not gonna risk it |
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Posted: 1/1/2021 4:51:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your ammo choice is sound, but have you actually SHOT that Buffalo Bore in a 5 shot J Frame? I can't imagine.... Yes, with these grips on them. Avoidance is always priority one, and if I ever have to use one it will likely be at bad breath range. With all the camera equipment I usually carry when out in the woods weight and size are a big consideration. The 640-1 works very well for me. 
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Posted: 1/1/2021 8:09:47 PM EDT
[#44]
It's black bear not grizzlies, they can be hard to kill but they are mostly big sissy's. I live in a area of pa that has a lot of bears and pa black bears get big. I have killed a few and seen some take a good pounding before they give up but I have only had two not turn tail and run as soon as they saw me. The other two could have been chased off with a air horn but I didn't have one and my 9mm fired into the ground sent both running for the hills. If you see a black bear 99 percent chance they are going to run as soon as they are you. If you have even a 22 there is a 99 percent chance the ones that didn't run will after the warning shot.
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Posted: 1/2/2021 4:12:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, with these grips on them. Avoidance is always priority one, and if I ever have to use one it will likely be at bad breath range. With all the camera equipment I usually carry when out in the woods weight and size are a big consideration. The 640-1 works very well for me. https://images2.imgbox.com/79/40/g8YzZ3Ey_o.jpg That shiney finish works in your favor  The aluminum/scandium/titanium models would give you similar or more horsepower at the same weight in more user friendly frame sizes. But you seem to have it figured. |
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