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The Shooting Gallery Boardman Ohio, that caught my attention. Spent some cash there way back when and we qualified their one year.
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Quoted: The Shooting Gallery Boardman Ohio, that caught my attention. Spent some cash there way back when and we qualified their one year. View Quote I dropped a LOT of coin there back in the day. I was on a first name basis with Ed, one of the salesmen. Like I said in my duty gun thread, not long after I got married, my wife got pregnant, almost miscarried twice, got labelled high risk and taken off work and put on strict bedrest for 5 months or so. We were relying on both incomes, so we ran into money issues really quick. This was at the height of the Assault Weapons Ban. One of the ideas I had was to sell my pre-ban Colt HBAR Sporter and buy a LE Only AR to replace it, then use the leftover money to keep us afloat.. Since LE only guns had a very limited market, you could buy a 16" carbine for about $500.00, give or take. The catch was that you needed a letter on Department letterhead to buy it, saying that you were going to use it for LE purposes. While we still had the anti-gun Chief, one of the Sergeants would sign any letter anyone put in front of him. I went to the Shooting Gallery to see what they would give me for it. Keep in mind, this is at the height of the AWB. They had an identical Colt on the wall when I went in, price was $2500.00. The owner (I can't remember his name, taller, thin guy with gray hair) told me they would only give me $250.00 for it. Keep in mind, I had spent THOUSANDS of dollars there by this time and was in the shop almost weekly. When I questioned $250.00 and pointed out an identical gun on the wall for $2500.00, he freaked out on me. I tried telling him that I didn't expect $2500.00, that I knew that he had to make a profit, but $250.00 was an insult. He started yelling and cussing, told me that it was some special edition or something and was worth $2500, while mine was worth $250.00. I walked out and never went back. I drove past some time later and the building was now something else, I think it was Window World. I was disappointed because at the time, they were the best shop in the area for "black rifles" and other mil-style guns. |
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Quoted: Did we work at the same agency? 18Z50 View Quote When we told guys from other Depts how it was, they were uniformly amazed and shocked. We were overjoyed when that Chief retired, although he got immediately hired as our city manager. Money suddenly dried up for everyone and we suspect that he was embezzling, although no one would ever come in and investigate. He was a lazy, corrupt bastard and it was a great day when the city council finally got fed up and fired his ass. A short story about his corruption. Not long after I got initially hired as a part timer, I was working and he came into the Patrol Office and told me to sign a paper. It was a form for the State of Ohio, saying that I had worked an 8 hour traffic shift as part of a grant. I had not worked it. I told him that I hadn't worked it and wouldn't sign it. He told me to either sign it or I would be fired, on the spot. I was a young, dumb, gung-ho rookie and signed it to keep my job, but I made sure to make a copy of the paper. I tried going to our County Prosecutor Office, they didn't want to hear anything about it. One of our Dispatchers, who was also a part time Officer and had been around for years, pulled me aside and gave me some advice. She told me, flat out, that I needed to keep my mouth shut and let it go. I was told that if I tried doing anything more about it, my body would end up being found on one of our few rural roads, with a bullet in my head. I was specifically told that it would be conspicuously within our City limits, so he could control the investigation, and it would be ruled either suicide or accidental, to shut me up. I was told that "appropriate authorities" were looking into it and, if anything could be done, it would be. Nothing ever happened, because neither the County authorities, nor the State authorities, really wanted to get involved in any municipal politics, as long as no bodily harm or death was involved. It sucks, but that was the way it was back in the day. Not only was corruption tolerated, it was expected, as long as the corruption didn't intrude on anything major. We had a HUGE Mafia presence in this area (not far south of Youngstown) and they ruled the local politics. I was overjoyed when the State started investigating local politics a few years later and started busting the Mafia and local politicians that worked with them. Nowadays, if you even take free food from a restaurant that wants to give it to you and someone complains, an investigation is started and it is not unheard of for you to get into deep shit. How things change. |
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I enjoyed reading your posts about all of the different guns.
I still have my AMT Backup 380 that I bought at a gun show in the ‘80s. I agree with your review especially the disassembly part. I hate having to drive that pin out! I actually shot it a few weeks ago for the first time in over thirty years. My daughter shot it and her remark was that she does not like the trigger. |
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Great Read.
I too love the S&W Shield, as being the "Right Size" for a 9mm carry gun and for the slim thin profile. I usually carry with the 7+1 round mag in place with the 8+1 as the reload. Still not a fan of the hinged trigger that S&W adopted as their signature difference (to avoid the Glock Legal Bitch Slap over copying them in the Sigma days), but hey no one is perfect. Thanks for sharing! BIGGER_HAMMER |
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Quoted: Great Read. I too love the S&W Shield, as being the "Right Size" for a 9mm carry gun and for the slim thin profile. I usually carry with the 7+1 round mag in place with the 8+1 as the reload. Still not a fan of the hinged trigger that S&W adopted as their signature difference (to avoid the Glock Legal Bitch Slap over copying them in the Sigma days), but hey no one is perfect. Thanks for sharing! BIGGER_HAMMER View Quote While I realize that trigger shape is one of those subjective things, I don't get the hate for the hinged triggers on the S&W poly framed guns. Myself, I kinda like them and the way they feel on my finger. Not a big deal. if you don't like it, you don't like it and that's OK. On the subject of the Sigma, they are a curious study. When they first came out, i LOVED the way they felt in my hand. I honestly don't think I ever felt a gun grip that felt better to me. It felt like it was made just for my hand. Unfortunately, the trigger was horrible. HEAVY, gritty and nasty, so I never bought one, thankfully. The local Sheriff's Department issued them for several years because they got a good deal on them. The Deputies HATED them and they had TONS of problems with them. I was told that they had to bring several spare pistols to qualifications and training because, inevitably, one or more would break while shooting and the Deputy would have to be issued another. I don't know how true this was, but this is what they told us, anyway. We had a part timer many years ago that carried one of the updated Sigmas in .40. He wasn't really a gun guy but was perfectly happy with the Sigma, since that was all he knew. He actually shot it well and it was accurate enough and was reliable. I tried it one day and, while the trigger was still heavy, it wasn't really bad. It was reasonably smooth and not too long. For a bargain gun, which is what S&W was marketing them as by that time, it wasn't a horrible option. Unfortunately, by that time, the Sigma name was ruined with gun people and beyond redemption. |
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@bub75
If you worked in Eastern Mahoning County over the last 30 years you probably know my father. |
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Quoted: While I realize that trigger shape is one of those subjective things, I don't get the hate for the hinged triggers on the S&W poly framed guns. Myself, I kinda like them and the way they feel on my finger. Not a big deal. if you don't like it, you don't like it and that's OK. On the subject of the Sigma, they are a curious study. When they first came out, i LOVED the way they felt in my hand. I honestly don't think I ever felt a gun grip that felt better to me. It felt like it was made just for my hand. Unfortunately, the trigger was horrible. HEAVY, gritty and nasty, so I never bought one, thankfully. The local Sheriff's Department issued them for several years because they got a good deal on them. The Deputies HATED them and they had TONS of problems with them. I was told that they had to bring several spare pistols to qualifications and training because, inevitably, one or more would break while shooting and the Deputy would have to be issued another. I don't know how true this was, but this is what they told us, anyway. We had a part timer many years ago that carried one of the updated Sigmas in .40. He wasn't really a gun guy but was perfectly happy with the Sigma, since that was all he knew. He actually shot it well and it was accurate enough and was reliable. I tried it one day and, while the trigger was still heavy, it wasn't really bad. It was reasonably smooth and not too long. For a bargain gun, which is what S&W was marketing them as by that time, it wasn't a horrible option. Unfortunately, by that time, the Sigma name was ruined with gun people and beyond redemption. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Great Read. I too love the S&W Shield, as being the "Right Size" for a 9mm carry gun and for the slim thin profile. I usually carry with the 7+1 round mag in place with the 8+1 as the reload. Still not a fan of the hinged trigger that S&W adopted as their signature difference (to avoid the Glock Legal Bitch Slap over copying them in the Sigma days), but hey no one is perfect. Thanks for sharing! BIGGER_HAMMER While I realize that trigger shape is one of those subjective things, I don't get the hate for the hinged triggers on the S&W poly framed guns. Myself, I kinda like them and the way they feel on my finger. Not a big deal. if you don't like it, you don't like it and that's OK. On the subject of the Sigma, they are a curious study. When they first came out, i LOVED the way they felt in my hand. I honestly don't think I ever felt a gun grip that felt better to me. It felt like it was made just for my hand. Unfortunately, the trigger was horrible. HEAVY, gritty and nasty, so I never bought one, thankfully. The local Sheriff's Department issued them for several years because they got a good deal on them. The Deputies HATED them and they had TONS of problems with them. I was told that they had to bring several spare pistols to qualifications and training because, inevitably, one or more would break while shooting and the Deputy would have to be issued another. I don't know how true this was, but this is what they told us, anyway. We had a part timer many years ago that carried one of the updated Sigmas in .40. He wasn't really a gun guy but was perfectly happy with the Sigma, since that was all he knew. He actually shot it well and it was accurate enough and was reliable. I tried it one day and, while the trigger was still heavy, it wasn't really bad. It was reasonably smooth and not too long. For a bargain gun, which is what S&W was marketing them as by that time, it wasn't a horrible option. Unfortunately, by that time, the Sigma name was ruined with gun people and beyond redemption. Hahahahaaaaa. .. I owned a Sigma 40F back when it was "cutting edge". I LOVED the natural point of aim & feel of the grip too. I love the S&W M&P for the same reason. Glock grip angles never felt right for me. The SIGMA trigger was FAR from the light crisp 1911 or the single action stages on a 3rd Gen S&W. But if you knew how to shoot a double action revolver, it was actually not bad. Which is what S&W was trying to duplicate. Not so light & crisp an A.D. might happen, especially in a High Stress situation. Mine ran 100% without issues, problems or jams. |
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Quoted: Great Read. I too love the S&W Shield, as being the "Right Size" for a 9mm carry gun and for the slim thin profile. I usually carry with the 7+1 round mag in place with the 8+1 as the reload. Still not a fan of the hinged trigger that S&W adopted as their signature difference (to avoid the Glock Legal Bitch Slap over copying them in the Sigma days), but hey no one is perfect. Thanks for sharing! BIGGER_HAMMER View Quote The Hyve trigger is like magic in a Shield, and cheap too |
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Just read this thread and the other one about your duty guns. Great write ups, enjoyed reading them
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Quoted: Hahahahaaaaa. .. I owned a Sigma 40F back when it was "cutting edge". I LOVED the natural point of aim & feel of the grip too. I love the S&W M&P for the same reason. Glock grip angles never felt right for me. The SIGMA trigger was FAR frommthe light crisp 1911 or the single action stages on a 3rd Gen S&W. But if you knew how to shoot a double action revolver, it was actually not bad. Which is what S&W was trying to duplicate. Not so light & crisp an A.D. might happen, especially in a High Stress situation. Mine ran 100% without issues, problems or jams. View Quote Yeah, they were trying to get Depts to switch from revolvers to autos and were trying to duplicate the DA revolver trigger. However, the triggers in the few early ones I tried were so crunchy and full of grit that I just didn't want to deal with them. The trigger on the one that the guy who worked for us had, wasn't bad. It wasn't great, but it wasn't bad. By that time, there were other guns that worked better and didn't have the Sigma's stigma, which is one reason they went away. The later ones were decent guns, just not great guns, and were too late to save the model. |
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OP, you have truly bought some shitty, awful guns. I don't want to insult you, but holy shit, why in the world did you not have a gun guy help you along the way?
AMT? Sigma? Taurus? That's like picking up women at Weight Watchers or some shit. |
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Quoted: OP, you have truly bought some shitty, awful guns. I don't want to insult you, (and then you promptly do exactly that anyway )but holy shit, why in the world did you not have a gun guy help you along the way? AMT? Sigma? Taurus? That's like picking up women at Weight Watchers or some shit. View Quote Wow, way to take a big shit in this thread. Nice |
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Quoted: Wow, way to take a big shit in this thread. Nice View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: OP, you have truly bought some shitty, awful guns. I don't want to insult you, (and then you promptly do exactly that anyway )but holy shit, why in the world did you not have a gun guy help you along the way? AMT? Sigma? Taurus? That's like picking up women at Weight Watchers or some shit. Wow, way to take a big shit in this thread. Nice Holy balls that was brutal..... We have all bought some shitty stuff at one time or another just part of the game. I have a big box of holsters, parts, and all kinds of misc shit I wasted money on over the years. I use it to lend to people when they say hey I want to buy this or that. I promptly respond I have that I will give it to you or you can have it for $X if you like it. 95% of the stuff I have gotten back and I use it to save other people money. Live and learn.... but do not shit on people for making mistakes all of us have made. |
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Quoted: Holy balls that was brutal..... We have all bought some shitty stuff at one time or another just part of the game. I have a big box of holsters, parts, and all kinds of misc shit I wasted money on over the years. I use it to lend to people when they say hey I want to buy this or that. I promptly respond I have that I will give it to you or you can have it for $X if you like it. 95% of the stuff I have gotten back and I use it to save other people money. Live and learn.... but do not shit on people for making mistakes all of us have made. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OP, you have truly bought some shitty, awful guns. I don't want to insult you, (and then you promptly do exactly that anyway )but holy shit, why in the world did you not have a gun guy help you along the way? AMT? Sigma? Taurus? That's like picking up women at Weight Watchers or some shit. Wow, way to take a big shit in this thread. Nice Holy balls that was brutal..... We have all bought some shitty stuff at one time or another just part of the game. I have a big box of holsters, parts, and all kinds of misc shit I wasted money on over the years. I use it to lend to people when they say hey I want to buy this or that. I promptly respond I have that I will give it to you or you can have it for $X if you like it. 95% of the stuff I have gotten back and I use it to save other people money. Live and learn.... but do not shit on people for making mistakes all of us have made. Exactly. I am seeing quite a few very nice pieces in that list. Especially when you consider that small town officers are not typically paid that well to begin with and the OP mentioned personal issues in his life that limited him financially for a period of time I'd say he did pretty well! |
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Quoted: Holy balls that was brutal..... but do not shit on people for making mistakes all of us have made. View Quote I neither "shit on" him nor was brutal. By OP's own admission, many were pieces of shit. I was "brutal" by agreeing with him? Whatever there, Sparky. My mistakes were just as bad, however it was LONG before internet days where we could read reviews & ask questions. Some of you guys are either wrapped way too tight or are in the snowflake generation. Clearly none of you ever held the flashlight for your dad when you were kids. |
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Quoted: Exactly. I am seeing quite a few very nice pieces in that list. Especially when you consider that small town officers are not typically paid that well to begin with and the OP mentioned personal issues in his life that limited him financially for a period of time I'd say he did pretty well! View Quote There were indeed some nice S&W's in there. As for limited finances, I would bet I would win on myself making the least amount of $$ in here. I buy 90%+ of my guns used in order to save $$$. I use lay-a-way on almost all of my purchases as well. I also work two jobs in order to afford the luxury of buying used guns. None of which is anyone's business but my own but I'm writing this just to prove a point. You want to be poor? Come live with me. |
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Another good post OP.
I ended up with the same daily carry selection of Shield 9 or G42. |
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I went through a ton of off duty guns as well. I bought the wife a Glock 42. I ended up stealing it and it’s my almost perfect off duty gun now.
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Great post.
Nice to see appreciation for the Smith 4516. Loved mine....sadly, long gone. |
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Man you bought some real stinkers *I was surprised it took so long to get to a glock or j frame.
*before anyone starts I bought mostly decent guns back then and didn't buy stinkers until more recently |
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Awesome post. It is fascinating to hear about such experiences.
Much like you, I've settled on the 9MM shield as my primary carry piece. Thanks! |
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Quoted: OP, you have truly bought some shitty, awful guns. I don't want to insult you, but holy shit, why in the world did you not have a gun guy help you along the way? AMT? Sigma? Taurus? That's like picking up women at Weight Watchers or some shit. View Quote Keep in mind, most of the truly bad decisions were before the Internet was really a thing, or at least before I really had access to it. As I said in my Duty Guns thread, all I really had for research was gun rags like Guns and Ammo. At the time, I didn't realize passages like "Good enough accuracy for duty carry" really meant "Shitty accuracy but we're afraid that (insert manufacturer's name) will not send us anymore free guns, so we'll be nice". In the gun rags, ALL guns are the best, newest and brightest. As for not having a gun guy help out, it's really easy. There were no gun guys on the PD and I didn't know any. None of my family were into guns, so I literally had nowhere to go for advice. I was on my own, reading G&A. Nowadays, I AM the gun guy at the PD and quite often advise my guys about potential purchases. Most listen, some don't. Most end up with decent, quality guns. They may not like the individual gun they purchase after shooting it, but at least it is a good quality, reliable gun and they didn't waste their money on junk. I just wish I had that kind of advice when I was young. |
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Quoted: Great post. Nice to see appreciation for the Smith 4516. Loved mine....sadly, long gone. View Quote Honestly, I can't explain why I loved the 4516 the way that I did. It was HEAVY, had limited capacity (although the same capacity as a 1911 or my current Shield), had a DA/SA trigger with slide mounted safety when, by that time, I was carrying a Glock 21 on duty that had none of those, and even then, the mags weren't cheap or as readily available as, say, Glock mags. However, I absolutely LOVED that gun and it is one of those that I truly regret getting rid of. Several years ago, when my wife and I finally got to the financial point that I could afford to start buying recreational guns again, I tried looking for another 4516. By that time, they had been discontinued by S&W for quite some time and prices were quite a bit more than I wanted to pay. Not to mention, mags are pretty scarce and quite expensive themselves. I couldn't justify the purchase when I would only take it out a time or two per year, if that, and would likely never actually carry it. Sucks, but it is what it is. |
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Quoted: Man you bought some real stinkers *I was surprised it took so long to get to a glock or j frame. *before anyone starts I bought mostly decent guns back then and didn't buy stinkers until more recently View Quote Yep, I did buy some real shit. Chalk it up to a learning experience. The G26 was bought when they were first introduced. As for the J Frame, well, what can I say? I started out on semi autos and, at that time, revolvers were considered to be for those genetic throwback cavemen that refused to step into modern times. Keep in mind, this was during those wild, turbulent times when LE was going whole hog on replacing revolvers with new, modern Wondernine autos. IIRC, Aimless, you were around in LE in those days, unless I'm remembering someone else. It took quite some time before I finally accepted that revolvers could, in fact, still be a valid choice. What can I say, I was young and dumb. |
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Nope never a leo.
G42 is a great gun. I had two at one point. It's the smallest gun I own that shoots like a real gun. I wish I had bought a da/sa s&w. I guess for some reason they weren't that common around here outside of police issue guns |
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Wow, thanks for pecking all that out, and for the excellent grammar and spelling!
The only place I was getting lost was "carry" - when you mention how the guns carry I'm not sure if you mean as a duty backup weapon or off-duty concealed carry. Great read! |
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Quoted: Wow, thanks for pecking all that out, and for the excellent grammar and spelling! The only place I was getting lost was "carry" - when you mention how the guns carry I'm not sure if you mean as a duty backup weapon or off-duty concealed carry. Great read! View Quote Thanks for the kind words. Although I often carried many of these guns for both backup and off duty, when I mention carrying them, it is mostly referring to off duty. The vast majority of my career, backup had been carried in or on my body armor and, as a result, comfort really doesn't factor into that aspect of it. Armor isn't really comfortable, anyway, so a little more discomfort isn't that big of a deal. |
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From a younger cop to an older one, thanks for posting this. I bought a G23 after I turned 21, which I kept for about a year at which point I had gotten hired and my department gave us duty ammo in 9 for our off duty carry guns. I swapped the G23 for a P320C, which I still own and love, though I’ve put a Wilson Carry grip on it now. About the same time I picked up a shield for warm weather carry, which I also really liked. I found myself only wanting to carry the shield, but also not satisfied with the capacity, so this fall I sold the Shield and picked up a P365. I love that thing and it is now my carry gun 365. Never have carried a backup on duty.
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Quoted: From a younger cop to an older one, thanks for posting this. I bought a G23 after I turned 21, which I kept for about a year at which point I had gotten hired and my department gave us duty ammo in 9 for our off duty carry guns. I swapped the G23 for a P320C, which I still own and love, though I’ve put a Wilson Carry grip on it now. About the same time I picked up a shield for warm weather carry, which I also really liked. I found myself only wanting to carry the shield, but also not satisfied with the capacity, so this fall I sold the Shield and picked up a P365. I love that thing and it is now my carry gun 365. Never have carried a backup on duty. View Quote I'm highly intrigued by the P365. Almost exactly the same size as my Shield, but 10+1 or 12+1. Two things stop me. The first is the fact that, like all Sigs, mags are expensive. I like to have at least 8 mags for every gun I have, and would rather have 10+. I just can't justify the cost of Sig mags when my Shield works just fine and I shoot it very well. After some of the crap listed above that I bought, I also like to shoot an example of a gun before I buy one, if possible, and no one I know owns a P365 for me to try out before buying. The second is my raging hatred for Sig as a company and how my one and only experience with their customer service went. Briefly, I started out my career in LE with a W German P226. After several thousand rounds, I was having massive rust issues because of the crappy finish (which I found out later was a fairly common problem), and was having many, many malfunctions. I called Sig and the CS rep I spoke to blamed me for doing something to THEIR gun. The rep said that their guns just don't do what I was complaining of, told me that I had done something to it and absolutely refused to do anything about it. Since then, I have flatly refused to have anything to do with anything Sig. You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but I'm curious. You say that you don't carry a backup gun. Is this by choice or by Dept policy? There are still a few Depts that won't allow them. If it is your choice, I would strongly urge you to find one you like and RELIGIOUSLY carry it, but in the end, it is completely up to you. |
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Awesome article!
Like you, I was young and poor when I started in law enforcement. Our choices were p226, beretta 92, or S&W 59xx series. Or revolvers. I used a sw 5904 for several years on and off duty, and loved it. Well, I really wanted a p226, but they were too expensive. Then glock took over and it was g17 or g19. Then the caliber wars so 9mm was out in favor of .40 or .45. My last duty weapon was a g21 SF. Good luck hiding that... Now I carry a steyr m9a2, or a springfield trp 10mm. But thats personal carry. I no longer do Leo work. Anyway, thanks for the stories. They brought back memories... |
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