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Posted: 9/20/2023 8:53:28 AM EST
 10-8 Performance Lab, Episode 31: MIM In The 1911 |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 10:41:25 AM EST
[#1]
Good video.
Thanks. Had a mim part go bad before - not a mim fan. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 10:46:10 AM EST
[#2]
On Springfield 1911's, there is an obvious molding flaw on the firing pin stop that looks like a crack. I replaced the part on my first Mil-Spec Springer thinking it was indeed a crack. It turns out all of them have this molding flaw. That was my first experience with MIM parts, and I was nervous about that molding flaw developing a crack at some point on all Springfield firing pin stops. The guy in the video says that's not a part he worries about. Strange. I'd think with constant hammer impacts it would be a high-failure part.
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USA
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Posted: 9/20/2023 1:08:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: Joe_Blacke]
[#3]
Had mim parts break. Had forged and barstock parts break.
Honestly this is a mountain out of a molehill situation. Both types of parts break. Most users rarely experience any real type of part breakage. You have to fire a LOT of rounds through a gun to get parts to break if they are from a decent manufacturer. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 1:17:00 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joe_Blacke: Had mim parts break. Had forged and barstock parts break. Honestly this is a mountain out of a molehill situation. Both types of parts break. Most users rarely experience any real type of part breakage. You don't see people burning up the internet with reports of MIM parts breaking, with the exception of a famous incident with Kimber from a few years ago. If it were a pervasive issue, I'd think you'd hear about it. Okay, maybe an MIM part only lasts 20,000 rounds and a forged part lasts 50,000 rounds. Only a very small percentage of people fire a gun to that high of a round count anyway. |
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Posted: 9/20/2023 2:25:58 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: On Springfield 1911's, there is an obvious molding flaw on the firing pin stop that looks like a crack. I replaced the part on my first Mil-Spec Springer thinking it was indeed a crack. It turns out all of them have this molding flaw. That was my first experience with MIM parts, and I was nervous about that molding flaw developing a crack at some point on all Springfield firing pin stops. The guy in the video says that's not a part he worries about. Strange. I'd think with constant hammer impacts it would be a high-failure part. I replaced mine with a Harrison small radius, I'm still pretty sure it's a crack but maybe not. Everything else has been fine in 1100+ rounds through my Loaded. People bitch about MIM Sig extractors which also haven't caused me any problems. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 12:43:24 AM EST
[#6]
Other modern firearms are full of MIM/casted parts. Somehow people pick on them in 1911 platform the most. You don't hear much complain on MIM in other platform as much if any.
 Well, it's a good way to keep all the aftermarket part makers' business going. Why not.... 
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Posted: 9/21/2023 2:37:39 AM EST
[Last Edit: Jozsi]
[#7]
Yeah, I'm gonna listen to a company that when you
custom order a 1911 from them, they will ship it to you and its a FUDD out of the box and can't shoot for shit. They keep telling you that you need to break it in. So you fire a box, not enough, another box, not enough, another box, not enough and it goes on and on and on and on and on and on for a while. And then you ship it back to them and they sit on it for years because, Hilton Yam is an active LEO, Ninja scuba warrior, spetnatz, army delta force whatever and he doesn't have time to look at it. You get it back and it still functions for shit and then you sell it at a horrible loss and moved on and got a Nighthawk. This was many moons ago and I've moved on and I forgive them, but I won't ever forget it. BTW, this isn't my experience but a close shooting industry buddy who has worked for several big league hitters and I had to help him being I was working for an industry company also. Forgiven, moved on, but never forgotten and always suspicious with a gravy boat style of Caveat Emptor. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:36:59 AM EST
[#8]
While I prefer forged or barstock parts, the only parts that I have had actually fail are... forged and barstock parts. MIM is ugly and feels cheap though.
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CA, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:43:07 AM EST
[#9]
Kuhnhausen has a section of his 1911 shop manual covering MIM parts. While it didn't have hard numbers, the basic conclusion was that MIM parts have inherent properties less desirable than forged and billet parts, such as being more susceptible to fracturing and taking on moisture.
It was basically "they have their place, particularly for cost savings of intricate parts, but given the choice I'd rather not." |
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UT, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:50:24 AM EST
[Last Edit: Just10mm]
[#10]
Try doing a trigger job on MIM 1911 ignition parts.
MIM has its place, 1911’s ain’t one of them. Unless you shoot 50 rounds a year and like mediocre triggers. |
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WV, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 9:10:51 AM EST
[#11]
MIM sucks in revolvers as well. I have had broken MIM parts in multiple S&W N frames.
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USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:22:42 PM EST
[#12]
Other then just tradition, MIM can be as strong as cast or forged parts.
Colt uses MIM for their magazine catch, sear, and disconnecter, everything else is cast or forged. I don't think I've ever heard of a broken MIM sear or disconnecter in a Colt 1911 series. The new Colt Cobra is almost all MIM parts and they seem to stand up very well. Where MIM has failed has usually been with companies that used it for no other reason than it was cheaper, and even then they used substandard MIM parts. They key is, MIM parts that are properly made are good to go. Crap quality MIM parts fail. After all, Navy aircraft use MIM landing gear struts and they take an incredible beating landing on a carrier. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:33:27 PM EST
[#13]
MIM extractors are horrible pieces of crap that should be shoved up the builders arse after being heated red hot. They are total crap, won't hold tension and the claw is fragile.
Colt learned really quickly they were junk, SA, not so much. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:39:43 PM EST
[#14]
I just bought another Springfield and the extractor is not MIM |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 6:44:07 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: I just bought another Springfield and the extractor is not MIM I believe the higher priced ones aren't, the lower priced ones are still MIM as far as I know. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 8:47:27 PM EST
[#16]
I don't think my Loaded's extractor is MIM, but I have a spare Wilson bulletproof in the event it causes problems
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FL, USA
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Posted: 9/21/2023 9:41:38 PM EST
[#17]
I've only had one MIM part fail.
A 1995 Springfield Champion thumb safety. Broke at the body and pin junction. Replaced with a Brown extended. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 7:02:34 AM EST
[#18]
Would you guys agree with this - "if a MIM part is going to fail, it usually does right away,....if it lasts 500 rounds, it will probably last 10,000" |
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NC, USA
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Posted: 9/22/2023 7:41:56 AM EST
[#19]
To be fair, Hilton has said numerous times that MIM isn't automatically bad. He's pretty open about stating that the quality of MIM parts is what determines whether they'll be problematic. The larger tolerances that tend to exist in factory guns with MIM parts is also a problem, as it can lead to accelerated wear.
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:57:20 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: I just bought another Springfield and the extractor is not MIM Good to know. Both of my Springfields are less than two years old so I'm guessing mine aren't either. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 9:03:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: DocApocalypse]
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: I believe the higher priced ones aren't, the lower priced ones are still MIM as far as I know. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By Colt653: I just bought another Springfield and the extractor is not MIM I believe the higher priced ones aren't, the lower priced ones are still MIM as far as I know. Here's an interesting bit of trivia. I go to a lot of gun shows and gun shops so I compare prices and make observations all the time. My Springfield Mil-Spec is marked "Mil-Spec" on the left side of the slide and has a plastic trigger shoe. As far as I know all of them do. Here's the thing: the same gun marked "Model 1911-A1 Cal .45" comes with a metal trigger shoe and the ILS in the mainspring housing (on every example I've seen) and these are usually $150 more from retailers. I'm not sure why the difference in parts for what is essentially the same pistol. Is one model older than the other? Of course, the version with the ILS is probably for states that require it, but then why is it the only version with a metal trigger shoe? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 9:54:22 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Here's an interesting bit of trivia. I go to a lot of gun shows and gun shops so I compare prices and make observations all the time. My Springfield Mil-Spec is marked "Mil-Spec" on the left side of the slide and has a plastic trigger shoe. As far as I know all of them do. Here's the thing: the same gun marked "Model 1911-A1 Cal .45" comes with a metal trigger shoe and the ILS in the mainspring housing (on every example I've seen) and these are usually $150 more from retailers. I'm not sure why the difference in parts for what is essentially the same pistol. Is one model older than the other? Of course, the version with the ILS is probably for states that require it, but then why is it the only version with a metal trigger shoe? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By Colt653: I just bought another Springfield and the extractor is not MIM I believe the higher priced ones aren't, the lower priced ones are still MIM as far as I know. Here's an interesting bit of trivia. I go to a lot of gun shows and gun shops so I compare prices and make observations all the time. My Springfield Mil-Spec is marked "Mil-Spec" on the left side of the slide and has a plastic trigger shoe. As far as I know all of them do. Here's the thing: the same gun marked "Model 1911-A1 Cal .45" comes with a metal trigger shoe and the ILS in the mainspring housing (on every example I've seen) and these are usually $150 more from retailers. I'm not sure why the difference in parts for what is essentially the same pistol. Is one model older than the other? Of course, the version with the ILS is probably for states that require it, but then why is it the only version with a metal trigger shoe? If those are current production, probably cali guns. SA hasn't used the ILS system in a decade or so on non cali guns. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 10:14:34 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bad2006z71: If those are current production, probably cali guns. SA hasn't used the ILS system in a decade or so on non cali guns. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By bad2006z71: Originally Posted By DocApocalypse: Originally Posted By fxntime: Originally Posted By Colt653: I just bought another Springfield and the extractor is not MIM I believe the higher priced ones aren't, the lower priced ones are still MIM as far as I know. Here's an interesting bit of trivia. I go to a lot of gun shows and gun shops so I compare prices and make observations all the time. My Springfield Mil-Spec is marked "Mil-Spec" on the left side of the slide and has a plastic trigger shoe. As far as I know all of them do. Here's the thing: the same gun marked "Model 1911-A1 Cal .45" comes with a metal trigger shoe and the ILS in the mainspring housing (on every example I've seen) and these are usually $150 more from retailers. I'm not sure why the difference in parts for what is essentially the same pistol. Is one model older than the other? Of course, the version with the ILS is probably for states that require it, but then why is it the only version with a metal trigger shoe? If those are current production, probably cali guns. SA hasn't used the ILS system in a decade or so on non cali guns. So the fact that I live in New Mexico and the ILS-equipped guns were at two different gun shows in the last year probably means that either they are 10+ year old guns, or the dealer goofed and ordered a CA-compliant gun, if I'm reading your post right. I know for a fact that one of the so-equipped guns I saw was NIB because it was mint condition and full of oil. I guess it's possible that a dealer could have a 10-year old gun in his inventory that no one wants because it has the ILS, but I'd think most retailers would eventually discount the gun to move it. So I find it hard to believe that an FFL would keep a NIB gun for 10 years. It's more likely a newer production pistol that the dealer mis-ordered or the distributor shipped on their own. But that still begs the question: Why would a new production CA gun have a metal trigger shoe and be marked "Model 1911-A1" and not the other Mil-Spec Springfields? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:04:35 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: So the fact that I live in New Mexico and the ILS-equipped guns were at two different gun shows in the last year probably means that either they are 10+ year old guns, or the dealer goofed and ordered a CA-compliant gun, if I'm reading your post right. I know for a fact that one of the so-equipped guns I saw was NIB because it was mint condition and full of oil. I guess it's possible that a dealer could have a 10-year old gun in his inventory that no one wants because it has the ILS, but I'd think most retailers would eventually discount the gun to move it. So I find it hard to believe that an FFL would keep a NIB gun for 10 years. It's more likely a newer production pistol that the dealer mis-ordered or the distributor shipped on their own. But that still begs the question: Why would a new production CA gun have a metal trigger shoe and be marked "Model 1911-A1" and not the other Mil-Spec Springfields? Springfield maintains production of the CA compliant versions of otherwise discontinued models, I assume because of how the CA roster system works. IIRC any changes would require recertification on the CA approved roster, so I bet that they don't roll parts changes into the CA models than normal state versions get. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:07:11 AM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DocApocalypse: But that still begs the question: Why would a new production CA gun have a metal trigger shoe and be marked "Model 1911-A1" and not the other Mil-Spec Springfields? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:22:57 AM EST
[#26]
The above 2 posts are correct. Cali's roster doesn't allow any changes without re testing or whatever. SA maintains a few Cali compliant guns.
Why a NM dealer has them, I don't know. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 11:52:48 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Joe_Blacke: Had mim parts break. Had forged and barstock parts break. Honestly this is a mountain out of a molehill situation. Both types of parts break. Most users rarely experience any real type of part breakage. You have to fire a LOT of rounds through a gun to get parts to break if they are from a decent manufacturer. This is all true. Given a choice though, I will use Ed Brown or EGW parts in my guns. Nobody replaces forged or bar stock parts with MIM because MIM parts only advantage is ease and expense of manufacturing. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 3:30:09 PM EST
[#28]
"Remove all of these machined parts and replace them with MIM."
Said no one to a gunsmith ever. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 10:22:26 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wirebrush: This is all true. Given a choice though, I will use Ed Brown or EGW parts in my guns. Nobody replaces forged or bar stock parts with MIM because MIM parts only advantage is ease and expense of manufacturing. Parts designed from the outset to take advantage of MIM's properties, cannot be improved by switching to forged or bar stock. Substitution after the design is finalized, is always a problem. |
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Posted: 9/23/2023 11:05:14 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bullet_:.....Parts designed from the outset to take advantage of MIM's properties, cannot be improved by switching to forged or bar stock. ... Which 1911 parts were designed to be MIM ? 
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Posted: 9/24/2023 1:16:38 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: Which 1911 parts were designed to be MIM ? Some are now allergic to MIM in any gun whatsoever. And bad mouth it in every usage. Then turn around and throw love and praise at their older Colt 1911, with cast parts in it. |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 1:30:55 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SeanTX: "Remove all of these machined parts and replace them with MIM." Said no one to a gunsmith ever. Is it @Fluffythecat or @FluffyTheCat ? |
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Posted: 9/24/2023 1:31:48 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Colt653: Which 1911 parts were designed to be MIM ? And therein lies part of the problem. The design is not necessary amenable to the modern process. |
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AR, USA
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Posted: 9/29/2023 7:45:19 AM EST
[#34]
nothing new in that video and as usual he is up front about "it depends on what you use it for" and says "Im Biased against MIM"
I found it strange about the FPS because I have broken those dryfiring more times than I can count. and Part of that is because they are loose in the slot and sometime float or are fitted to the extractor and float with the extractor in the slot. I replace the MIM parts starting with the fire control and slide stop, like Hilton said I dont like to wonder. The Fire control parts are for a reason. While some people are ok with factory 1911 triggers, IM NOT. as he said doing a trigger job on them is pointless. Just for point of reference. Dodge uses MIM CONNECTING RODS in the 6.4 Motors (and others Im sure)..... So if MIM will stand up to that, its all about how its done. |
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