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Posted: 4/6/2006 1:50:53 AM EDT
[#1]
Wasn't a SWAT officer. It was a SC state deputy by the name of Coates. He on the other hand dumped 5 rounds of .357 into the BG (Blackburn) who survived. This incident was caught on the officers car video, and has been one of my training videos for years. ETA: Blackburns weapon was an NAA mini revolver in .22 LR, he fire 2 shots one of which was stopped by Coates's body armor. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:32:29 AM EDT
[#2]
I have always heard of the Israeli secret police using modified .22lrs inserted into bicyle pumps and canes and briefcases and all sorts of different items to use for assasinations and the such.
You can easily silence these and put 5 or six well placed rounds in someone and yeah, its over. I would confidently use my Neos if I absolutely had to, empty 10 rnds in someone almost instantly with no recoil and not having to reaquire my target, 10rnds plus better shot placement could never be bad. Would still prefer just one 147g jhp 9mm though.... Brandon J. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:44:27 AM EDT
[#3]
You can put me in the shot placement crowd for sure. The .22lr is a FINE attack weapon when stealth and surprise is on you side. A quiet, cheap, reliable, easy to aim, easy to conceal killer. But defending yourself with it would be suicide. You won’t be able to pull out a temple shot when you attacked from behind while unlocking your house door at 1 am. Regardless of how deadly these CAN be, if I got shot in the arm or hand with one of these, I would be pissed off, not disabled. When you are attacked and you can only get off whatever shot you’re given the opportunity to take, I like to know that if in the panic of things I shot my attacker in the hand, a large chunk of his hand would land in the neighbors yard. I do not want him to be able to look down at his hand and say “You bastard!” and then proceed with whoopass on me.
Brandon J |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:59:30 AM EDT
[#4]
.22 has killed many a man. I know a guy who took one to the brain housing group. Round went up the nostril and went exactly between the hemispheres of his brain and he did not die. That said my Uncle took three rounds (8mm ?)from a Luftwaffe aircraft in WW2 and lived.
I have euthanized hogs with one round of .22. Anything that will kill one of those tough SOB's will kill a man. I was a poor ass Lance Corporal of Marines and could not afford anything better and had a .22 rifle for home defense. Did I want better? Yes of course. Did I feel unarmed? Not in the least. It beat the hell out of a sharp stick. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 6:28:56 AM EDT
[#5]
I see another episode of the Box-O-Truth forming.
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Posted: 4/6/2006 6:36:01 AM EDT
[#6]
As with many things, dumbest is relative. I make my judjment not only on utter ignorance but also on potential for harm. Its a relative scale, but I stand by my initial analysis. Dumber than the aquabump. I would note, however, that based on your post count you may have seen things that you think were dumber. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 7:10:38 AM EDT
[#7]
My dad worked in an ER and he saw many people brought in seriously injured by .22 rimfires and this was in 1970s
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Posted: 4/6/2006 8:36:55 AM EDT
[#8]
I remember reading once about a high power pellet gun killing a kid. Hit the little boy in his Jugular. Farm kids. He bled to death before help arrived or he got to the hospital.
As said before. Shot placement and contempt make any firearm potentially dangerous. Lewis and clark had an Air Gun. It was quite deadly and was a European military arm. A repeater 20 shots in a min. Deadly to 150 yards as I remember. Fantastic performance in the smooth bore musket days. Pellet guns can easily penetrate the 4 inches into the eye to hit the brain. If paint ball can penetrate the cheek and dislodge teeth, they certainly have the potential of being deadly. Air soft. Give me a min...... Choking hazard? Shot into the mouth. Especially dangerous to small children. Etc. Etc. Etc. They all demand our care and respect to ensure they only do what we intend them to do. It is usually the unintentional that sneaks up on us. Don't underestimate any of them. 
Yes my fater in law tells a convincing story about his uncle taking a deer with a .22. May have been a Mag, but still. The potental is there.
Humans yes. Deer, I would put my money on the 30-06 or 30-30
+1 |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 10:22:06 AM EDT
[#9]
Its a statistical fact that .22LR is the most used caliber in homicides worldwide, by far.
Waaaay down in second place comes 9mm Para. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 11:39:19 AM EDT
[#10]
Settle down and go find your meds. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 11:50:21 AM EDT
[#11]
A .22LR will pass through 1.5" of wood with no problem. I doubt any part of your body is stronger than a 2x4. Once something penetrates your center mass or cranial occular cavity, it pretty much game over.
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Posted: 4/6/2006 11:57:58 AM EDT
[#12]
I don't know if this has been touched on yet, but I've also read that lubed lead bullet wounds (e.g. .22 LR) get infected more often than other bullet wounds.
I think the other points above about "enough power" to reach vitals are more to the point. .22 LR may not immediately neutralize the threat, but a good shot will send them to the ER or grave eventually. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 12:34:59 PM EDT
[#13]
22 also killed Robert Kennedy
Suppressed 22lr's were also used in the German death camps (Aushwitz) to execute people They did use 9mm but the 22lr was alot less expensive and produced the same results. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 1:02:07 PM EDT
[#14]
your warning is about 7 years to late ,had bb imbedead in my fore head we were poping up from holes we dug and I just got lucky took 10 minutes to get out with tweezers, also even more painful wound then that was a direct hit to the nipple I thought it was shot off for a few minutes
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Posted: 4/6/2006 2:11:41 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 4/6/2006 4:08:36 PM EDT
[#16]
I've been shot twice, once in my upper chest, near the collarbone, once in the stomach with pellet guns. Not fun, and the kids responsible actually were trying to hurt me. Funny how you feel the impact, then nothing, then a ton of pain 30 seconds later. Didn't tell anybody because I didn't want to be a chickenshit or a tattle-tale and I was kind of embarassed about the whole thing. The first time, it was a lead pellet and the pain/burning was very much like a bee sting that causes almost your entire body to go into pain, the second was a steel BB, similar pain. Both times, just picked the projectile out with tweezers, lucky that the penetration wasn't very much and that the pellet in the first incident didn't deform on me, else I would have had to have gone to the ER. Clean it with peroxide, put a bandaid on it and you're GTG. Either way, it can be serious and it's definitely not something to laugh off or take lightly. As for BB gun wars, that's what airsoft is for. 
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:19:43 PM EDT
[#17]
I once shot a jug of water that was 12 inches in depth with CCI CB shot. I was very impressed by the results. TOTAL penetration of 12 inches of water and one healthy bounce off the oak board behind it. I have also heard somewhere that 3 inches of water penetration is about 1 inch of flesh penetration.
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:28:24 PM EDT
[#18]
A .22 is a small but still deadly round, with my .22 pistol I can empty the mag as fast as I can squeeze the trigger into a very tight group, because of the small amount a recoil, a .22 at close range can be as effective as a larger round with shot placement.
As for airguns my friends dad knew someone who was killed with one, .177 pellet... hit emm in the heart. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:39:11 PM EDT
[#19]
Dubest personal jab (actualy a lame attempt at a sophomoric personal ad hominim) post by a guy with no dog in the fight ever. Dumb dumb dumb dumb.   I still think shooting someone with a .22 is pretty dumb, but hey be a hero and take a few for the team. 
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:44:44 PM EDT
[#20]
This shit is fucking hilarious!  You don't have a clue do you? 
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:52:05 PM EDT
[#21]
That's about right. .22 definitely will penetrate enough, as will a pellet gun, provided nothing is in the way (like an arm, door, wall, etc). |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 5:52:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Provided whatever penetrates center-mass actually hits something, otherwise you're totally correct. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 7:55:46 PM EDT
[#23]
True of any bullet. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 7:57:58 PM EDT
[#24]
Oh, I'm just going by the golden rule, that's all. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 8:06:11 PM EDT
[#25]
Any size projectile entering your body will kill you. A .22 cal. or a .45 cal. will kill you or not kill you.
It's the luck of the draw. ______________________________  |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 8:06:18 PM EDT
[#26]
i would gaurantee that the .22LR has the most kills on deer and turkey than all other rounds..
for a couple of hundred years..people forage hunted.. 1 gun..all game.. hell in rural areas i have seen men hunt quail..with .22.. people who are hungry..or selling meat..use what they have on them all the time.. more than likely a .22 lr.. bolt..pump..auto..lever gun..take your pick. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 9:09:25 PM EDT
[#27]
For air guns try a Webly&Scott .25 cal barrel break (Beeman Kodiak) or Air Arms Pro Elite .22 cal, pushing at near 900 fps a 14.5 grn pellet, I used to shoot a coffee container filled with spent 30-06 brass at 10 yards and whatever shell gets a direct hit from the pellet would be bent in the center badly with the shell walls collapsed and touching and many shells would be dinged
this is no bull, it passes through 1 inch plywood like butter, I am not talking about Crossman or Kmart special BB guns I pierced my hot water heater with it by accident. |
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Posted: 4/6/2006 11:19:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Trust me they kill plenty. The trauma unit I work in (Dayton Ohio) other than the 9mm the 22 is the next most popular round. And trust me the 22 kills just as many as all other rounds (I am talking about HEAD SHOTS ONLY though).
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Posted: 4/7/2006 2:57:20 AM EDT
[#29]
never did the bb wars but paintballing in the snow once i took a shot to the nipple. damn did that thing sting. there ain't nothing quite like a bruised nipple. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 9:42:12 AM EDT
[#30]
Oh, I believe it. My Crosman 66 that shoots .177 pellets at 645 fps does that kind of damage to a coffee can and will wreck pretty much anything you have in that can, too. I shot a old steel Army helmet with mine once and it dented the helmet at 10 yards (damn near penetrated) with an ordinary steel BB. People seriously underestimate airguns. The airguns you're describing are basically equivalent to a .22 Short, would still mess up a person if they were hit with it, definitely not a joke. It's well-known that a .22 pellet gun, at similar velocities to .22 LR (around 1000 fps, give or take) is entirely capable of causing virtually identical wounds at short range (about 10 yards or less). It can definitely reach the human heart. A 5.5gr .177 BB has to travel at a minimum of 300 fps to break skin, so it would be safe to assume that larger/heavier projectiles don't need as much velocity to do the same thing (because of energy/momentum) and that anything significantly higher than 300 fps can do some serious damage. Considering you only have to penetrate about 3 inches to reach the heart if there's nothing in the way, I would think that a .177 firing at 500+ FPS would be able to penetrate sufficiently. In fact, a .22 pellet gun might actually have more penetration than a .22LR because of the lower velocity causing less projectile deformation (assuming we're talking about typical LRN/LHP bullets). Would be cool if Old_Painless would do some testing here 
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Posted: 4/7/2006 10:55:08 AM EDT
[#31]
A couple years ago here in Newark, DE a girl was shot in the chest with a .22 at a frat party and promptly bled out and died before help could arrive.
It may not be the best combat round, as it requires precise shot placement to do serious damage and it can take time to die from the wounds, but it's quite deadly regardless. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 11:14:54 AM EDT
[#32]
MORE THINGS DIE FROM .22S BECAUSE FAR MORE THINGS ARE SHOT WITH .22S!
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Posted: 4/7/2006 11:16:04 AM EDT
[#33]
the statistics do seem to support this.
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Posted: 4/7/2006 11:18:05 AM EDT
[#34]
Do it and get back to us. Inquiring minds want to know. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 11:23:47 AM EDT
[#35]
Can YOU take a Full Power Shot™ ? I just had to say it.
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Posted: 4/7/2006 4:24:24 PM EDT
[#36]
There is a town in my area that was known as "little Chicago" during the 60's.
There was a lot of manual-labor industry in the area. Lots of big, strong guys running around. One story is that a man came into a bar one night, was giving the waitress a hard time, and she cought him sneaking behind the bar after closing time. He jumped up to grab her, and she pulled out a cheap 25auto and shot him in the forehead with it. The bullet fractured the skull, but didnt penetrate, and skidded along the skull under the skin to the top of his forehead. It didnt kill him. Another story is of a black man defending his home in the mid-60s. Because of the job market and area, lots of blacks ended up moving here in the late 1800s. In the mid-60s, there was a lot of tension in the town, and more than a couple small riots and rallies. One night the KKK decided to burn a cross in a mans yard. He walked out, and kicked it over. No one did anything until he went back inside, when they threw rocks thru his windows. The story goes that after the windows were broken, two of the KKK members thought they were going to go into the guys house. They stuck their heads in, and both were shot and killed with a 22lr Ruger MKI. One was shot in the area just between the eyes, and the other was shot beside the nose. It was ruled justifiable. |
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Posted: 4/7/2006 7:08:20 PM EDT
[#37]
there are several non-hollowpoint .22LR bullets which achieve 12" of penetration when fired from a rifle.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 4:34:08 AM EDT
[#38]
+1 Put... the... Manischewitz... down 
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Posted: 4/8/2006 5:39:46 AM EDT
[#39]
There's no way a nail file could kill someone...it's too small.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 6:42:50 AM EDT
[#40]
but how long were those not allowed on airplanes? |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 11:53:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Y'all do not know jack! After having been there done that for a long time! Seen quite a few dead people with a single GSW from 22LR! Especially if put in the noggin!
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Posted: 4/8/2006 5:43:04 PM EDT
[#42]
I had no idea the Brady/Reagan shooting was with a .22 Anyone else...Is this really true? |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 5:57:45 PM EDT
[#43]
My friend has this damn obsession with wasting money on small caliber guns. And he just bought a new Beretta Neo .22 the other day. He spends more money on stupid ass small cal weapons than I can afford to spend on anything. I personally think it's a waste to buy something you can't guarantee stopping someone with. I agree, a .22 can stop someone with 1 precise shot, but you can't always gaurantee that shot. I perfer a .40 at bare minimum so even if you have a body shot, it will definitely stop an attacker. Now my friend won't stop raving about this new .17 caliber. If he buys this damn gun in a .17 caliber, I will forever ban him from my range...just kidding, it's my best friend. Still, i have to do something, this is embarrasing. We have to put an end to this small caliber shit now. And with my oversized fingers I can't even load his stinkin mags.
Besides, nothing can be more fun than delivering an oversized bullet into the chest of an attacker. I will always grab my Beretta 96 .40 if there is a midnight intruder. The ONLY dangerous weapon, is an unloaded weapon! |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 6:00:00 PM EDT
[#44]
Reagan/Brady were shot with a .22LR revolver, a cheap Rohm RG-series, IIRC. Other sources have claimed that it was a Ruger MKII. Lennon was killed by multiple GSW's all over his torso from a revolver in .32 S&W Long, I think. Other sources claim it was a Charter Arms revolver in .38 Special. Either way, Reagan/Brady were shot with a .22 handgun, while Lennon was shot with something bigger. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 6:16:30 PM EDT
[#45]
I saw the john hinkley biography the other day He had 2 .38specials on his way to washington but airport security found them in his bag so he bought 2- 22lrs at a pawn shop. Then the narator says in a deep voice hinkley then purchased some devistator rounds that were made to explode on impact LMFAO.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 9:29:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Wow if I get those for my 10/22 I could get rid of my AR, 1100, and Mossy500, .40, 9. Hmmmmm Haha. Thanks for reminding me bout that. I heard that a long time ago and LMAO too. Then I called Denny to see if he had any for sale. 
I think most here have been saying that. Need ESL?
.02 cents per shot versus .20 cents per shot. Bump in the night I grab the .40 or 9 with Hydrashocks (depends on what part of the house I am in as to what I can grab from there). But at the range I will shot the .22 Neos, or the 9 over the 40 more regularly. 2 cents or less, per shot is why he can buy more than you can. |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 5:26:15 AM EDT
[#47]
If I remember my ballistic tables, I think a .25acp is LESS powerful than your average .22LR. That is, if you don't take into account the difference in weight. That guy must've had one solid noggin though. The other thing I was going to say,is I can't believe this thread has gone on for so long. And just so it's clear, I don't think any of the people that are saying the .22 kills are advocating it for a self defense round. Seems pretty obvious to me. |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 8:38:24 AM EDT
[#48]
A .22LR will penetrate a car door. Metal is harder to penetrate than skin. Draw your own conclusions.
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Posted: 4/9/2006 2:15:33 PM EDT
[#49]
when we used to slaughter cows & pigs, 1 shot to the head using 22LR was all it took. as stated above, the 22 is lethal because it tends to tumble once inside.
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Posted: 4/9/2006 4:44:40 PM EDT
[#50]
Well if the 22 is the number one killer then I shouldn't hear people bashing about 9MM rounds =).
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