Serious Handgun - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Serious Handgun (Page 2 of 4)

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:19:39 AM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I really like shotguns and I think they make an excellent home defense firearm but that link has some good info about what they do and what they don't do.

I've looked at the link and those results are specific to that shotgun and those loads he used. Go out and shoot different shotguns of varying barrels and loads and you'll be suprised how much variation there is between shotguns, barrel lengths, chokes and loads.

There is practically no rule of thumb you can follow. Some long barrels with full chokes pattern some buck shot loads widely. Some short barrel open chokes throw tight patterns.

That's why it's always been said to test your shotgun combo on paper before you rely on it so you know what you're getting.

Well, I've got a reasonably good handle on how mine patterns. In any case, I doubt that in a home defense scenario I'll be shooting at a distance where I could get a 40" spread out of *any* barrel.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:20:18 AM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need a gun which you can point in a general direction and hit your target with massive force.

I'm no super-SEAL or anything, but any firearm in my house can fit that bill. Especially with a 2-3 second window at "house" distances.

Have you ever shot somebody in your house or at close range? If not, you're just guessing. A lot of times when you actually do something you learn a big lesson.

Guessing at what?

That given 2-3 seconds I can hit a MAN-SIZE target at 50yds or closer with any weapon that is in my house???

If you can't, or you don't know that you can, you need some more range time.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:21:29 AM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You need a gun which you can point in a general direction and hit your target with massive force.

I'm no super-SEAL or anything, but any firearm in my house can fit that bill. Especially with a 2-3 second window at "house" distances.

Have you ever shot somebody in your house or at close range? If not, you're just guessing. A lot of times when you actually do something you learn a big lesson.

Guessing at what?

That given 2-3 seconds I can hit a MAN-SIZE target at 50yds or closer with any weapon that is in my house???

If you can't, or you don't know that you can, you need some more range time.

Shivan,

Do you think the 458 SOCOM on full-auto would constitute "massive force"?

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:22:40 AM EDT

[#4]

40" at 20-25 yards is not unreasonable, which is what I said earlier.

You're not going to see 40" spread within 10 yards. But what you will see it a fist size wad of lead with about 3,000 ft-lbs of energy.

That's going to beat a single projectile every time. Unless it's a .50 cal.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:23:16 AM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
You don't aim a shotgun. You point the bead. That's why target aquisition is so quick. Unless it's got iron sights (a slug gun).

Well, to each his/her own. My experience is that it's easier to knock down moving targerts at close range with a shotgun.

You're also more likely to incapicitate on the first hit because you break a whole bunch of bones with buckshot. Like tibia and spine.

Buckshot is not the finger of doom. Buckshot has far LESS wounding ability than most rifle rounds. Each pellet is about .30 caliber, but traveling at far less speed than a rifle round. The pellets do not expand, and penetrate fairly poorly. The round shape of the pellets is also the WORST shape for a projectile to cause tissue destruction. Finally, it is much less likely to break a bone than is a high power rifle round.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:23:54 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Guessing at what?

That given 2-3 seconds I can hit a MAN-SIZE target at 50yds or closer with any weapon that is in my house???

If you can't, or you don't know that you can, you need some more range time.

Have you? If not, then you're guessing you can. There is no way around that one. Either you've done it or you haven't. If you haven't you're just guessing you can.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:24:01 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Shivan,

Do you think the 458 SOCOM on full-auto would constitute "massive force"?

I suppose two or three rounds of 458 or 50 caliber ammo zipping through you might count as "massive force".

Especially as it OPENED up to twice it's normal size and kept cutting....

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:25:39 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
<snip>

With 3" magnum No. 1 buck you're shooting like a 40" swath of death at them. Compared to a 1/4" swath of death.

<snip>

At 45 yards, the largest pattern Old_Painless got was still only 33 inches. At room distances, it was more like 2-3 inches on average. O_P Patterns Buckshot Do you just make this stuff up as you go?

Only 30" plus barrels with custom tuned chokes will throw buckshot that tight at 45 yards. You sure you aren't making this up as you go along?

An 18" cylinder bore will throw about a 40" pattern at 20-25 yards.

I'm not making anything up. Just trying to correct some information you stated that in my opinion is wrong. You say a semi-auto rifle is better than a short barrel shotgun w/ buckshot at close quarters. I say you're wrong.

Did you even check the link. O_P was shooting a short barrel cylinder bore Mossberg.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:26:00 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
40" at 20-25 yards is not unreasonable, which is what I said earlier.

You're not going to see 40" spread within 10 yards. But what you will see it a fist size wad of lead with about 3,000 ft-lbs of energy.

That's going to beat a single projectile every time. Unless it's a .50 cal.

I don't see why you introduced the 20 to 25 yard comparison (back on pg2) if we were talking home defense.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:26:32 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Shivan,

Do you think the 458 SOCOM on full-auto would constitute "massive force"?

I suppose two or three rounds of 458 or 50 caliber ammo zipping through you might count as "massive force".

Especially as it OPENED up to twice it's normal size and kept cutting....

Have you got a 50 for that thing too? Damn...

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:28:22 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Have you? If not, then you're guessing you can. There is no way around that one. Either you've done it or you haven't. If you haven't you're just guessing you can.

Good argument.

Have you shot a HUMAN target in your house with 00 buck?

If so, post a link to the media story so we can read up on how it worked out? If you haven't then I guess you might want to drop your poorly constructed "if you haven't" argument tactic.

The fact is 2-3 seconds is a LONG time when you are deploying a weapon to shoot something.

I haven't shot a person, but I've trained to....

I'm confident that any weapon I own is sufficiently capable of shooting a man size target inside my house. If it weren't, I wouldn't own it.

You can continue with your childish "if you haven't" bullshit when you post the story or stories about you shooting an assailant in your house.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:28:30 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
[
Buckshot is not the finger of doom. Buckshot has far LESS wounding ability than most rifle rounds. Each pellet is about .30 caliber, but traveling at far less speed than a rifle round. The pellets do not expand, and penetrate fairly poorly. The round shape of the pellets is also the WORST shape for a projectile to cause tissue destruction. Finally, it is much less likely to break a bone than is a high power rifle round.

A single 00 buckshot will bust a thigh bone at 50 yards just like a musket ball.

Within 10 yards, a load of No. 1 buckshot is 21 .30 caliber lead balls grouped about as tight as a soft ball. It's going to drop somebody you hit them in the torso. I guarantee it.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:31:33 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Good argument.

Have you shot a HUMAN target in your house with 00 buck?

If so, post a link to the media story so we can read up on how it worked out? If you haven't then I guess you might want to drop your poorly constructed "if you haven't" argument tactic.

The fact is 2-3 seconds is a LONG time when you are deploying a weapon to shoot something.

I haven't shot a person, but I've trained to....

I'm confident that any weapon I own is sufficiently capable of shooting a man size target inside my house. If it weren't, I wouldn't own it.

You can continue with your childish "if you haven't" bullshit when you post the story or stories about you shooting an assailant in your house.

I haven't shot a person. But I've shot many many fast moving animals at bad breath distance and a shotgun is what you want to use. Have you?

The reasons it's more effective is because it's not as easy to miss the vitals. A. Because a shotgun has a bead which you point and shoot for fast target aquisition. B. you're throwing a bigger load at them.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:31:51 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
It's going to drop somebody you hit them in the torso. I guarantee it.

Love the "finger of death" cultists........

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:32:02 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

I guarantee it.

Now it's getting a little dicey.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:32:28 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
I haven't shot a person.

Then take your own advice and shut it.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:32:34 AM EDT

[#17]

Thanks for the OP link. I have the exact same shotgun.

And I second the other notions.

.45ACP (although I personally prefer .40, but for other reasons)

Glock 21
H&K USP 45

I like the Glock a bit better than the USP as it feels less "chunky".

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:33:47 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

<snip>

There is practically no rule of thumb you can follow. Some long barrels with full chokes pattern some buck shot loads widely. Some short barrel open chokes throw tight patterns.

<snip>

Please reconcile the above statement with your earlier post that:

Quoted:
Only 30" plus barrels with custom tuned chokes will throw buckshot that tight at 45 yards. You sure you aren't making this up as you go along?

Which is it? You KNOW what it takes to throw that tight a pattern, or it depends on the gun/choke/load used. The two are mutually exclusive statements.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:36:11 AM EDT

[#19]

So sue me for being rhetorical.

I give up. This is turning ugly.

Be safe.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:36:23 AM EDT

[#20]

FWIW I think a IIIA vest with a ceramic insert could soak up a 12 gauge blast. I don't know what the odds of encountering a home invasion culprit with such a vest are* but since the argument regarding the shotgun has become ludicrous I'll point that out.
The capacity of an AR (compared to a shotgun) could be an advantage when dealing with ineffective hits due to armor or multiple attackers.

* and I don't expect to actually encounter one and don't really plan around it

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:41:06 AM EDT

[#21]

Springer makes a 1911 13 shot +1 in da pipe. 14 rounds of .45 ACP should get you to whatever long gun you're going for.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:45:00 AM EDT

[#22]

I had a Para Ordnance P-14 a few years back. 45ACP 14+1. It was a beast in terms of grip size and weight. It was the signature model with adjustable sights etc. A really awesome pistol that shot like a laser (put ‘em right where I pointed it) and always functioned perfectly.

It’s a shame I got rid of it. At the time I had intended to return to Canada and the laws are far more restrictive there. Ironically, it was made in Canada.
I ended up staying in the US (thankfully) and I regret having sold it.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:50:44 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
[
Buckshot is not the finger of doom. Buckshot has far LESS wounding ability than most rifle rounds. Each pellet is about .30 caliber, but traveling at far less speed than a rifle round. The pellets do not expand, and penetrate fairly poorly. The round shape of the pellets is also the WORST shape for a projectile to cause tissue destruction. Finally, it is much less likely to break a bone than is a high power rifle round.

A single 00 buckshot will bust a thigh bone at 50 yards just like a musket ball.

Within 10 yards, a load of No. 1 buckshot is 21 .30 caliber lead balls grouped about as tight as a soft ball. It's going to drop somebody you hit them in the torso. I guarantee it.

This gets better all the time. A Civil War era musket fired a +/- 500 grain projectile at about 1000ft/sec. That gives the projectile 1110 ft. lbs of energy. A single 00 pellet weighs about 75 grains, travels at about 1325 ft/sec and packs about 290 ft. lbs of energy (less than a .22 magnum rounds.) One can hardly compare the two.

Facts are stubborn things.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:56:31 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:

This gets better all the time. A Civil War era musket fired a +/- 500 grain projectile at about 1000ft/sec. That gives the projectile 1110 ft. lbs of energy. A single 00 pellet weighs about 75 grains, travels at about 1325 ft/sec and packs about 290 ft. lbs of energy (less than a .22 magnum rounds.) One can hardly compare the two.

Facts are stubborn things.

Crunch the numbers all you want.

00 buck will shatter thick bones at 50 - 100 yards and punch clean through the pelvic bone of deer. I've seen it.
All the buckshot will be embedded just under the skin on the opposite side. Even shot from the rear, the buckshot will go all the way through the deer and embed itself just under the hide in front of the chest. I've killed a deer at 60 yards with that exact shot. Three 00 buck pellets entered the rear, went all the way through, and stopped under the skin in front of the chest. Deer fell within 20 yards.

Actually experiencing and seeing something with your own two eyes is the stubbornest fact of all.

Posted: 12/14/2005 11:59:33 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:

This gets better all the time. A Civil War era musket fired a +/- 500 grain projectile at about 1000ft/sec. That gives the projectile 1110 ft. lbs of energy. A single 00 pellet weighs about 75 grains, travels at about 1325 ft/sec and packs about 290 ft. lbs of energy (less than a .22 magnum rounds.) One can hardly compare the two.

Facts are stubborn things.

Crunch the numbers all you want.

00 buck will shatter thick bones at 50 - 100 yards and punch clean through the pelvic bone of deer. I've seen it.
All the buckshot will be embedded just under the skin on the opposite side. Even shot from the rear, the buckshot will go all the way through the deer and embed itself just under the hide in front of the chest. I've killed a deer at 60 yards with that exact shot. Three 00 buck pellets entered the rear, went all the way through, and stopped under the skin in front of the chest. Deer fell within 20 yards.

Actually experiencing and seeing something with your own two eyes is the stubbornest fact of all.

How far is that?

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:00:20 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Actually experiencing and seeing something with your own two eyes is the stubbornest fact of all.

When deer invade my house, I'll break out the Remmie 11-87, OK?

Feel better?

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:00:28 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

This gets better all the time. A Civil War era musket fired a +/- 500 grain projectile at about 1000ft/sec. That gives the projectile 1110 ft. lbs of energy. A single 00 pellet weighs about 75 grains, travels at about 1325 ft/sec and packs about 290 ft. lbs of energy (less than a .22 magnum rounds.) One can hardly compare the two.

Facts are stubborn things.

Crunch the numbers all you want.

00 buck will shatter thick bones at 50 - 100 yards and punch clean through the pelvic bone of deer. I've seen it.
All the buckshot will be embedded just under the skin on the opposite side. Even shot from the rear, the buckshot will go all the way through the deer and embed itself just under the hide in front of the chest. I've killed a deer at 60 yards with that exact shot. Three 00 buck pellets entered the rear, went all the way through, and stopped under the skin in front of the chest. Deer fell within 20 yards.

Actually experiencing and seeing something with your own two eyes is the stubbornest fact of all.

How far is that?

I'd estimate about 36" of penetration. Through the rump, instestines, stomach full of acorns, chest cavity.. I'll admit I didn't notice any bone was hit though.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:01:12 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Actually experiencing and seeing something with your own two eyes is the stubbornest fact of all.

When deer invade my house. I'll break out the Remmie 11-87, OK?

Feel better?

You better. Deer are a lot tougher than people.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:03:04 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
FWIW I think a IIIA vest with a ceramic insert could soak up a 12 gauge blast. I don't know what the odds of encountering a home invasion culprit with such a vest are* but since the argument regarding the shotgun has become ludicrous I'll point that out.
The capacity of an AR (compared to a shotgun) could be an advantage when dealing with ineffective hits due to armor or multiple attackers.

* and I don't expect to actually encounter one and don't really plan around it

Level IIIA armor will protect the wearer from a shotgun blast (even the ultra-deadly "Buckshot of Dead") without the need for any insert.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:03:57 PM EDT

[#30]

Well you're more likely to hit them in the head with a shotgun if they're wearing armor.

;)

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:05:19 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:
You better. Deer are a lot tougher than people.

So then AGAIN, I state that I can hit a MAN size target at any range inside my house with something that doesn't need to take down a deer.

A 10mm 175gr full load will suffciently kill a deer, so it should do just fine on a man.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:05:42 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW I think a IIIA vest with a ceramic insert could soak up a 12 gauge blast. I don't know what the odds of encountering a home invasion culprit with such a vest are* but since the argument regarding the shotgun has become ludicrous I'll point that out.
The capacity of an AR (compared to a shotgun) could be an advantage when dealing with ineffective hits due to armor or multiple attackers.

* and I don't expect to actually encounter one and don't really plan around it

Level IIIA armor will protect the wearer from a shotgun blast (even the ultra-deadly "Buckshot of Dead") without the need for any insert.

I would think the blunt trauma would be pretty heavy-duty on that. But, I've never shot someone wearing IIIA with a 12 gauge or been shot with a 12 gauge while wearing IIIA.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:06:07 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:
Quoted:
You better. Deer are a lot tougher than people.

So then AGAIN, I state that I can hit a MAN size target at any range inside my house with something that doesn't need to take down a deer.

A 10mm 175gr full load will suffciently kill a deer, so it should do just fine on a man.

I know but a shotgun would be MUCH more effective. If you can access one (like in a bedroom) leave the peashooters in the holsters.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:09:51 PM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You better. Deer are a lot tougher than people.

So then AGAIN, I state that I can hit a MAN size target at any range inside my house with something that doesn't need to take down a deer.

A 10mm 175gr full load will suffciently kill a deer, so it should do just fine on a man.

I know but a shotgun would be MUCH more effective. If you can access one (like in a bedroom) leave the peashooters in the holsters.

As in the person would be "deader" if shot with a 12ga? Or "deadest"? Or "more deader" than the guy shot with a .45, 10mm, 38spl, 357mag, etc?

What a hoot......

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:12:11 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I know but a shotgun would be MUCH more effective.

Maybe I could STAGGER my rounds in the shotgun????

Buckshot, slug, slug, buckshot, buckshot, buckshot, slug, slug.

What do you think?

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:12:31 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW I think a IIIA vest with a ceramic insert could soak up a 12 gauge blast. I don't know what the odds of encountering a home invasion culprit with such a vest are* but since the argument regarding the shotgun has become ludicrous I'll point that out.
The capacity of an AR (compared to a shotgun) could be an advantage when dealing with ineffective hits due to armor or multiple attackers.

* and I don't expect to actually encounter one and don't really plan around it

Level IIIA armor will protect the wearer from a shotgun blast (even the ultra-deadly "Buckshot of Dead") without the need for any insert.

I would think the blunt trauma would be pretty heavy-duty on that. But, I've never shot someone wearing IIIA with a 12 gauge or been shot with a 12 gauge while wearing IIIA.

Not really. Remember, the NIJ standard requires that the vest not only stop the round from penetrating, but that it also spreads the impact force so that backface deformation is kept below dangerous levels. In other words, it might hurt, but the impact will not be incapacitating or life threatening.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:13:45 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
In other words, it might hurt LIKE A MOTHERFUCKER, but the impact will not be incapacitating or life threatening.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:14:32 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I know but a shotgun would be MUCH more effective.

Maybe I could STAGGER my rounds in the shotgun????

Buckshot, slug, slug, buckshot, buckshot, buckshot, slug, slug.

What do you think?

Doesn't the stagger usually start with birdshot or BBs so you can see if someone "gets the picture" after the first non-lethal blast? So it goes "dreaded rack sound" (large percentage flees or becomes paralyzed), birdshot (hostilities stop with less lethal force) then the buckshot/slug stagger.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:16:29 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
FWIW I think a IIIA vest with a ceramic insert could soak up a 12 gauge blast. I don't know what the odds of encountering a home invasion culprit with such a vest are* but since the argument regarding the shotgun has become ludicrous I'll point that out.
The capacity of an AR (compared to a shotgun) could be an advantage when dealing with ineffective hits due to armor or multiple attackers.

* and I don't expect to actually encounter one and don't really plan around it

Level IIIA armor will protect the wearer from a shotgun blast (even the ultra-deadly "Buckshot of Dead") without the need for any insert.

I would think the blunt trauma would be pretty heavy-duty on that. But, I've never shot someone wearing IIIA with a 12 gauge or been shot with a 12 gauge while wearing IIIA.

Not really. Remember, the NIJ standard requires that the vest not only stop the round from penetrating, but that it also spreads the impact force so that backface deformation is kept below dangerous levels. In other words, it might hurt, but the impact will not be incapacitating or life threatening.

I knew NIJ covered actual penetration but I didn't know they were that stringent on deformation/blunt trauma. Thanks for the info, that's good to know (in the unlikely event I get blasted by some psycho with buckshot while wearing a vest).
ETA: I'm joking around about the prospect of me getting shot but not making fun of your tip. Thanks for the 411.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:17:38 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Doesn't the stagger usually start with birdshot or BBs so you can see if someone "gets the picture" after the first non-lethal blast? So it goes "dreaded rack sound" (large percentage flees or becomes paralyzed), birdshot (hostilities stop with less lethal force) then the buckshot/slug stagger.

I already stated that I am no "super-SEAL". Why the difficult questions on the proper way to stagger my shotgun rounds?

But yes, maybe I will do:

C) Beanbag
1) Beanbag
2) #8 target shot
3) #8 target shot
4) Buckshot
5) Buckshot
6) Slug
7) Slug
8) Buckshot

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:19:28 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

As in the person would be "deader" if shot with a 12ga? Or "deadest"? Or "more deader" than the guy shot with a .45, 10mm, 38spl, 357mag, etc?

What a hoot......

As in the person will be incapacited much more quickly with a shotgun and have less of an opportunity of harming you.

If you want to stagger I would suggest, one slug first then buckshots. Slug for when you suprise him and buckshots in case you miss and have to make running shots.

Also remember you got to "lead them."

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:21:09 PM EDT

[#42]

Quoted:
As in the person will be incapacited much more quickly with a shotgun and have less of an opportunity of harming you.

Good thing I would likely use a failure drill, with a .45, right out of the box. My acquaintance Pat taught me those.

If you want to stagger I would suggest, one slug first then buckshots. Slug for when you suprise him and buckshots in case you miss and have to make running shots.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:21:50 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't the stagger usually start with birdshot or BBs so you can see if someone "gets the picture" after the first non-lethal blast? So it goes "dreaded rack sound" (large percentage flees or becomes paralyzed), birdshot (hostilities stop with less lethal force) then the buckshot/slug stagger.

I already stated that I am no "super-SEAL". Why the difficult questions on the proper way to stagger my shotgun rounds?

But yes, maybe I will do:

C) Beanbag
1) Beanbag
2) #8 target shot
3) #8 target shot
4) Buckshot
5) Buckshot
6) Slug
7) Slug
8) Buckshot

SHIT! Mine doesn't hold that many! I will have to adapt the SSDG stagger to my shotguns lower capacity.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:23:42 PM EDT

[#44]

You cannot go wrong with an HK USP45, or a Glock 21, or a Para-Ordnance P14-45 (single action or LDA).

My vote is for the LDA Nite Tac. In stock form, you get 14+1 rounds of 45ACP. You can get a magazine extension from Dawson Precision and have an 18rd magazine. It has a light rail built in for you arleady. And if you are into it... Lasermax makes a laser/guide rod that fits it.

But if you are really serious about home defense.... get one of these!! ;)

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:23:49 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Doesn't the stagger usually start with birdshot or BBs so you can see if someone "gets the picture" after the first non-lethal blast? So it goes "dreaded rack sound" (large percentage flees or becomes paralyzed), birdshot (hostilities stop with less lethal force) then the buckshot/slug stagger.

I already stated that I am no "super-SEAL". Why the difficult questions on the proper way to stagger my shotgun rounds?

But yes, maybe I will do:

C) Beanbag
1) Beanbag
2) #8 target shot
3) #8 target shot
4) Buckshot
5) Buckshot
6) Slug
7) Slug
8) Buckshot

SHIT! Mine doesn't hold that many! I will have to adapt the SSDG stagger to my shotguns lower capacity.

I say you just get some roman candle rounds and make the guy have a really bad day.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:24:29 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
Quoted:
As in the person will be incapacited much more quickly with a shotgun and have less of an opportunity of harming you.

Good thing I would likely use a failure drill, with a .45, right out of the box. My acquaintance Pat taught me those.

If you want to stagger I would suggest, one slug first then buckshots. Slug for when you suprise him and buckshots in case you miss and have to make running shots.

You make it a laughing matter. Ok, I was trying to be funny there. But if you seriously think you can be anywhere as effective with a pistol than a shotgun, it's obvious your experience goes no further than paper targets and internet.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:25:17 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
I say you just get some roman candle rounds and make the guy have a really bad day.

Are those the same as the Brennake Fire Dragons?

Maybe I should substitute one of the bean bags for a Fire Dragon?

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:26:59 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I say you just get some roman candle rounds and make the guy have a really bad day.

Are those the same as the Brennake Fire Dragons?

Maybe I should substitute one of the bean bags for a Fire Dragon?

Fire Dragons followed by Pepto shot for the indigestion about to be experienced.

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:28:24 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
You make it a laughing matter. But if you seriously think you can be anywhere as effective with a pistol than a shotgun, it's obvious your experience goes no further than paper targets and internet.

You got me....

Damn!

So help me work on how I should set up my shottie for home defense....

Should I even worry about birdshot? Do you think rock salt would be better?

Posted: 12/14/2005 12:29:49 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I say you just get some roman candle rounds and make the guy have a really bad day.

Are those the same as the Brennake Fire Dragons?

Maybe I should substitute one of the bean bags for a Fire Dragon?

Fire Dragons followed by Pepto shot for the indigestion about to be experienced.

Stop it, you are killing me......

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Serious Handgun (Page 2 of 4)

Handguns » Handgun Discussions

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us