[

Quoted: Here's anthe example: Quoted: Quoted: As hard as it may be for you to believe, some of us really are smart enough, and careful enough, to hand load our own ammo without blowing our hands off.  Of course, you should stick with factory ammo.   That ranks right up there with: "Hold my beer... hey ya'll watch this!"

I think he was pointing out that comment as an example of the sort of arrogant mindset that can lead to exactly the sort of occurence in this thread.  

One can also get very high chamber pressures from using low volume powder charges.  Depending on the powder you were using and how it rests in the case you can get large overpressures because of the burn pattern.

You mentioned that a double charge would be visible - if your normal charge is less than half that case volume that would put you at a large risk for this phenomenon.

Didn't read the whole thread - but here's my take on the original post:

You shot reloads through a pistol that says not to shoot reloads through it.

You rolled the dice, and blew up your gun - very likely from a mistake you made (people make them all the time, and nobody fesses up to the possibility that they contributed to the accident - but let me guess, you're different).

Now you expect the company who told you not to do what you did to pay for it, and you are ripping on them on a website from post #1.

Sounds like they don't owe you anything.

Shoulda had a 1911 he

Quoted: Shoulda had a 1911 I like the 5-7's cartridge but I held one at a gunshow and it didnt seem very sturdy. All the selectors and stuff were thin plastic that looked like they would snap off if you snagged them on something. Now it turns out they blow up too

What I learned from this thread......................



1--FN customer service = HK company policy                                  

2--Reloaders ate lead paint

3--I lost approx 5 IQ points reading this whole thread                      

Quoted: 3--I lost approx 5 IQ points reading this whole thread

And thank you for your contribution.

anytime schulze

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Quoted: Didn't read the whole thread - but here's my take on the original post: You shot reloads through a pistol that says not to shoot reloads through it.

Nowhere in my manual does it say "Do not shoot reloads through this firearm".

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You rolled the dice, and blew up your gun - very likely from a mistake you made (people make them all the time, and nobody fesses up to the possibility that they contributed to the accident - but let me guess, you're different).

If someone wants to show me how and if I messed up, please show me the facts. I have weighed every reloaded 55grain cartridge and they are all well within the correct weight range. Other than weight and length (length was measured when I loaded them), I will not disassemble and/or tamper with the cartridges. They are staying as-is, just as the firearm is.

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Now you expect the company who told you not to do what you did to pay for it, and you are ripping on them on a website from post #1. Sounds like they don't owe you anything.

This isn't about getting a new gun, my intention was that they have lied to me twice so far. They said they would have "someone" call me. I waited 2 weeks, didn't hear anything so I called back. Then they said they wanted to inspect the gun then after 30 days it would be destroyed and I couldn't get it back, and they would give me a "deep discount". I have yet to get a call, I have yet to get a packing slip to return it, and I have yet to find out what their "deep discount" is.

I would bet top dollar that somewhere in the manual or in the box there was a card that says "DO NOT SHOOT RELOADED AMMO, IT VOIDS THE WARRANTIE". Every single pistol I have ever owned warns against shooting reloads. Hell, even my USP 9mm(which are know to survive KBs) warns me not to shoot reloads.........unless you dont care about the warrantie.


I was really wanting to get a 5.7 sometime soon, but after this thread I think Ill hold off until more info on this issue comes out.

Actually my manual states the following:


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Like all firearms, the FiveseveN IOM, if handled in a careless or reckless manner, can be very dangerous. For that reason, the pistol has been sold under the express understanding that FN HERSTAL deciles any responsibility and invalidates any guarantee and liability claims for incidental or consequential damages (injuries, loss of use of property, commercial loss, loss of earnings and profits, ...) resulting in whole or partly from: - a discharge with criminal intent or through negligence - improper or careless handling - unauthorized servicing - the modification or the alteration of the basic pistol design - the use of non-original parts - the manipulation of the safety devices - the use of incorrect "arms & ammunition" combinations - the use of defective, damaged, unsafe, ... ammunition an inadequate care of the pistol (e.g. corrosion, damage) - a disregard of malfunctions - a resale in contradiction to legislation other circumstances beyond our direct and immediate control FN HERSTAL reserves the right to refuse servicing a pistol which has been modified (removal of metal from the barrel, modifications of the firing mechanism and/or other parts, ...) and will, in such a case, always recommend to restore the pistol to its original specifications. Parts and labor required for such a restoration are payable by the owner of the pistol.

Also on page19 regarding ammunition:

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The Five-SeveN IOM pistol should only be used with 5.7 x 28 mm SS 192 ammunition. ... Nevertheless, FN HERSTAL cannot assume any responsibility for incidents which result from the use of cartridges of different caliber or not fabricated according to the FN HERSTAL standards.

So does that mean if I shoot SS197 through my pistol that it voids the warranty?

And what is considered "fabricated according to the FN HERSTAL standards"? There have been kabooms in the PS90 caused from using factory SS197.

Looking at the pictures, it does not look like an OOB firing to me.  It looks like the slide and barrel were damaged/expanded.  An OOB vents the high pressure gas in an uncontrolled fashion, but there wouldn't be enough pressure to do that.  That looks like a double charge.

Quoted: I almost always blame reloads...............no matter how sure the shooter is that they were reloaded correctly.

+1

This is why I don't reload. People that have never had a problem with a reload of theirs will say differently. However I've seen in person, people with injuries come to a range and they say it happend with a reload. One guy came to a skeet park and was all bandaged up looking for pieces of his shotgun and he said it blew up because of a shell he loaded.

Sorry about the gun and hopfully if FN is nice about it they might warranty the gun but because it happened with a reload I'm no so sure. At least you made it ok. I know I'd be shook up for awhile if something like that happend to me.

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Quoted: I know I'd be shook up for awhile if something like that happend to me.

I am, I've been out shooting twice since then after my left (offhand) has almost healed completely. My "groups" were the entire target.

Quoted: If someone wants to show me how and if I messed up, please show me the facts. I have weighed every reloaded 55grain cartridge and they are all well within the correct weight range. Other than weight and length (length was measured when I loaded them), I will not disassemble and/or tamper with the cartridges. They are staying as-is, just as the firearm is.

You cannot prove that round was reloaded properly. Sure you may have a couple others that are in spec but that's not really a lot. Make up a whole pallet of ammo that we can spot check, and maybe that'll work.  

Because the reason gun makers only warrenty factory spec ammo is because they can go and see/verify the procedures that those makers use when making ammo. And they can spot check a lot of ammo. Sure you can say you did every other round perfect but so what? The guy who was considered the best reloader in the State of Pennsylvania got killed a few years back from one single bad round of his own make.

Basically, FN has no way of checking that you typically load to FN spec. It is, as the manual says, an "other circumstance beyond our direct and immediate control". If I was them I'd also tell you to pound sand. Especially after you went crying all over the internet (you evidently created this account just to post this). I'd also consider legal action against you.

I want to share this with you all, as it seems post are being removed there that do not agree with their opinions.

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Second Item: The Five-seveN will not fire out of battery as claimed and falsley demonstrated on this post. The Five-seveN slide will move rearward .1540-.1545" before it is considered out of battery. This measurement can be taken by pushing back directly on the barrel. After that point the barrel lug is locked and the slide will continue to move rearward. Now you are considered out of battery. Up to this point the hammer can still fall but you will not strike the primer. The hammer will strike the bottom of the slide and not the firing pin. At .0840" of slide travel the firing pin disconnect is out of reach of the firing pin safety. The firing pin safety is the part that lifts the firing pin block out of the way allowing the firing pin to travel forward after being struck by the hammer. Tommy Thacker FNH USA Product Manager

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Third Item: Do not reload this cartridge unless you completely understand this system! If you do not create the appropriate pressure at the appropriate time you will create a catastrophic failure. I am not saying this is what happen in this case, so let me explain. The 5.7x28mm has been through milions of dollars of testing to make sure this does not happen. I am sure that no one on this forum or any other has put in the time to develop the exact timing needed to produce the proper timing of this cartridge. Without this timing and proper development of pressure at the exact time you can cause the slide to start the rearward progression too early. This premature movement will result in the pressure spike occuring after the case has been partially removed from the chamber. And I beleive everyone knows what the end result is. Pressure from the expanding gasses will folloow the path of least resistance. If the case is partially removed before it has developed all the pressure quess where that path is now? The cartridge is designed to form to the chamber during this process, this is why it the shoulder is not the same after firing factory ammo. The shoulder forms to the chamber and is all a part of this critical timing. I personally would not reload this ammo. I am saying that as one man to another, not because of company policy. I reload, I have loaded more than 500,000 rounds of .38 super for competitive IPSC/USPSA competition. I understand the need for reloading as it does save money and you can create a load that works for your needs. This cartridge is not as easy to load because of the timing and pressures. It was never intended to use heavy bullets with high velocities. Light bullets create the high velocity not heavy bullets. Tommy Thacker FNH USA Product Manager I will post more on Thursday...

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The only reason FNH USA would keep someones gun that is sent in for repair is due to BATFE regulations. If a firearm has to be replaced then it must be destoyed per BATFE regulations. A manufacturer cannot issue a replacement of a serialized item without properly destroying the first serialized item. This is public knowledge and if you are not aware of this take it up with BATFE not FNH USA! Couldn't let that one go over night... Tommy Thacker FNH USA Product Manager

Quoted: I want to share this with you all, as it seems post are being removed there that do not agree with their opinions. Second Item: The Five-seveN will not fire out of battery as claimed and falsley demonstrated on this post. The Five-seveN slide will move rearward .1540-.1545" before it is considered out of battery. This measurement can be taken by pushing back directly on the barrel. After that point the barrel lug is locked and the slide will continue to move rearward. Now you are considered out of battery. Up to this point the hammer can still fall but you will not strike the primer. The hammer will strike the bottom of the slide and not the firing pin. At .0840" of slide travel the firing pin disconnect is out of reach of the firing pin safety. The firing pin safety is the part that lifts the firing pin block out of the way allowing the firing pin to travel forward after being struck by the hammer. Tommy Thacker FNH USA Product Manager Third Item: Do not reload this cartridge unless you completely understand this system! If you do not create the appropriate pressure at the appropriate time you will create a catastrophic failure. I am not saying this is what happen in this case, so let me explain. The 5.7x28mm has been through milions of dollars of testing to make sure this does not happen. I am sure that no one on this forum or any other has put in the time to develop the exact timing needed to produce the proper timing of this cartridge. Without this timing and proper development of pressure at the exact time you can cause the slide to start the rearward progression too early. This premature movement will result in the pressure spike occuring after the case has been partially removed from the chamber. And I beleive everyone knows what the end result is. Pressure from the expanding gasses will folloow the path of least resistance. If the case is partially removed before it has developed all the pressure quess where that path is now? The cartridge is designed to form to the chamber during this process, this is why it the shoulder is not the same after firing factory ammo. The shoulder forms to the chamber and is all a part of this critical timing. I personally would not reload this ammo. I am saying that as one man to another, not because of company policy. I reload, I have loaded more than 500,000 rounds of .38 super for competitive IPSC/USPSA competition. I understand the need for reloading as it does save money and you can create a load that works for your needs. This cartridge is not as easy to load because of the timing and pressures. It was never intended to use heavy bullets with high velocities. Light bullets create the high velocity not heavy bullets. Tommy Thacker FNH USA Product Manager I will post more on Thursday... The only reason FNH USA would keep someones gun that is sent in for repair is due to BATFE regulations. If a firearm has to be replaced then it must be destoyed per BATFE regulations. A manufacturer cannot issue a replacement of a serialized item without properly destroying the first serialized item. This is public knowledge and if you are not aware of this take it up with BATFE not FNH USA! Couldn't let that one go over night... Tommy Thacker FNH USA Product Manager

Thanks, where was this posted?

ETA:
Nevermind, I see it's on 5-7 forums

I have been there when a Glock 23 and Glock 21 blew up on factory loads. My first question about a Five Seven would be does the gun have a fully supported barrel or is it like a Glock?

Did you ever brush out the barrel since it appears you shoot it alot lead buildup could have raised CUP pressures to a burst point.

I dont know, but your really lucky!

First time i've seen a FiveseveN do this.  

To Whom This May Concern,


I am writing this letter in request of Tommy Thacker per our conversation on this date at 7:38PM Pacific Standard Time, requesting “nothing but the facts” of the incident that happened on April 12, 2008, while I was out target shooting my FNH FiveseveN IOM pistol.


On Saturday, April 12, 2008, at 1528HRS I was out target shooting and testing some ammunition that I had reloaded.

I had loaded 200 rounds of the following:
Bullet: Hornady 55grain FMJ BT
Case: Once (a couple might have been twice) fired 5.7x28mm brass
Primer: Winchester Small Rifle
Powder: Ramshot TrueBlue 5.0grains
Case Length: 1.128in + or - .002in
OAL: 1.580in + or - .003in

I load every single round by hand using a Lee hand press, RCBS 5-0-5 Scale, RCBS calipers, RCBS seating die, etc... Each round is placed in front of me with plenty of lighting while I am measuring powder, then after all powder is measured and placed in the cases I inspect the case for powder, as even 1.0grains more or less is quite easy to see, then placed in the hand press, topped off with a bullet, and then the bullet is seated. If the powder was double charged it would fill up into the base of the case's neck. Like I said, cases are inspected for overcharges.

Back to the accident. I had fired 66 rounds all reloads of various bullets (Hornady 40grain VMAX, pulled 28grain HP from SS195LF, Hornady 55grain FMJ). My 2nd 20round magazine I fired 5 rounds of 40VMAX I had some failure-to-eject (these were loaded with HS-6, I've had problems with that powder causing FTE), then tossed the magazine so I could pull those bullets and reload them with Ramshot TrueBlue. After that I fired 20 rounds off the 28grain bullets, all of which functioned flawlessly with Ramshot TrueBlue powder. The next magazine of 20 rounds was the 55grain FMJ with the load data above. The first magazine fired flawlessly, I even noted in my reloading book that it I might want to try loading to 5.1grains and see how they functioned. The 2nd magazine is when I ran into the malfunction, the first round fired like the previous 20, the it happened.

On the 2nd round I realigned my sights, slowly pulled the trigger and the gun literally exploded in my hands. I saw bits and pieces of the top of the slide cover blow. My first reaction was, "Oh crap what just happened." My second reaction was, how are my hands, I released my grip with my left hand (off-hand) and blood was trailing down my palm dripping off my hand. I could see 2 sources of the blood flow, one on my thumb and the other the web of my hand. I tossed down my FiveseveN into the grass in front of me and inspected my right hand. My right hand faired much better than my left, a small spot on the tip of my thumb.

I immediately pulled my cellphone out of my pocket and called my wife who had just arrived at my father's residence where I was at, I was ~1/2mi from the house. I told her to tell my dad to get out here, my gun just exploded, he quickly arrived and assessed my injuries. We went back to the house, cleaned my hand up a bit, bandaged it up, and went to the hospital ~40minutes away with my wife and mother-in-law.

Spent about 2 hours at the hospital getting 1 stitch in the web of my hand and 2 xrays. The xrays revealed a chunk of brass in the middle of my hand between my index and middle finger, and two very small peices between my index finger knuckle and the web of my hand. I have gone to a surgeon to see about getting the large piece of brass removed from my hand but he cautioned against it as it would cause more damage taking it out than leaving it in, as it is embedded into the muscle in my hand a probably isn't going to go anywhere so there isn't any worry about it moving around and slicing tendons and such.

I initially lost feeling in over 50% of my index finger and my thumb felt like it had been hit by a hammer and had numbness for about a week. I have gained some feeling back in my finger and am at ~35% complete numbness now.

My FN FiveseveN IOM is a complete loss, the magazine is still inside the grip, the remaining 18 rounds were forced out of the bottom of the magazine.


After looking over my FiveseveN I came to the conclusion that it had fired out-of-battery. There is 0 damage to the chamber and barrel that I can see. From what I can figure the round fired (out-of-battery) and the case was able to hold the pressure enough to allow the bullet to clear the barrel and the case wall gave way in the rear because it wasn't being supported by the chamber. The expanding case broke off at the neck while being extracted and as you can see from the photos above the whole back end of the case gave way. One chunk of brass is embedded into the right side of the grip, I almost had a matching chunk of brass in my right hand, but the grip stopped it.

After talking with a few friends and showing them my new paper weight they came to the same conclusion. Ryan from Elite Ammunition (www.eliteammunition.com, Custom 5.7x28mm Ammunition, both reloaded and virgin brass loads) also concluded that the cause was from it firing out-of-battery. He also stated that he has observed that with the FiveseveN the hammer will drop at up to 1/4inch out-of-battery.
I contacted Robert Ailes the Customer Support Manager at FN, 703-288-3500 ext 122, [email protected], on the 14th of April and told him my situation. He told me that he would talk to his boss about it and contact me the next day. Also told me that since I was shooting reloads that the warranty on my gun is void.

Next day, no phone call, so I called after hours and left a message for him to please return my call and gave him my cellphone number. So around noon on the 16th he called me and told me that "someone" would be contacting me soon. I asked when they might be contacting me and he said he did not know, but they would be in touch. I also asked how much it would be to just get it fixed/replaced and he said he didn't know, I would have to talk to the person who will contact me. I was expecting a call from FN's legal team...

April 28th... I called and left a message for him, asking him what the situatino was and when/if someone was going to contact me. At this point I pretty much felt as if they were just waiting for me to go away so they wouldn't have to deal with the situation.

April 29th... Rober Ailes returned my call and said the best they could do for me was send me a pre-paid packing slip that would be here by Thursday (May 1st) to ship the gun to them so it could be looked at, held for 30 days, then destroyed. I asked if I could get it back after they looked at it, and he said no and that it would be destoryed. He also offered me a "deep discount" on a new gun, but gave no details as to how much it would be.


I've been in contact with Tommy Thacker over the past few days via fivesevenforum.net, voicemail, and our conversation tonight. I never once wanted to blame FN for my problem, however after reviewing my original post, what I posted and what I really meant didn't not come out to be the same, for that I apologize profusely for. When I talked to Tommy I told him 2 or 3 times what my intent was with my post and he told me that that is what he got from my post. My post was out of frustration in the abundance of broken promises that I had received. I wanted to see if someone else could get more information than I could from FNH, because from the half dozen telephone calls that were made and received I had been told numerous things and they never happened. I never asked for anything from FNH, I just wanted to know if someone would want to take a look at what happen to help me understand further what caused this problem.


I will post this response to FNH on fivesevenforum and other places I posted. I will also do my best to contact any other places that my incident has been posted to.


I thank you for your time and sorry for any inconveniences that I have caused Robert Ailes, Tommy Thacker, and anyone else at FNH. I tried making clear in my post that all I posted was my observation and nothing more. It seems that this was blown out of proportion and beyond the control of the forum, myself, and FNH.

========
End of Letter
========

I talked with Tommy tonight, he said FNH wanted to take care of the problem, send me a new gun w/no questions asked. All they asked is that I send them a letter of nothing but the "facts" and they will send me a pre-paid slip to return the gun and they will inspect it and replace by gun for me at no cost.

I want to publicly thank everyone here, and everyone at FNH for their time and effort that was put into this. A lot has happened in the past few days and this has blown way out of proportion.

If anyone got from my original post that I was putting the blame on FN, my intentions were not such. Tommy even acknowledged that he did not feel that from my original post.

They are investigating and doing their own testing to see if an OOB fire is possible given all the variables of the situation.

I will try and update everyone as things happen.

Again, thank you all,
-Jake

I am glad to see that FNH is a standup company.

Where is my SCAR-L?

Max

Assuming they follow through this time, it is as good of an ending that you could expect.

Sounds like someone got a shush order going.

So much for ethics...

The Video

According to this web page the max case length is 1.123 and there is no load data for a 55 grain projectile.

Looks to be a user error but then again I could be wrong.

See my sig line... the 2nd one

Quoted: I am glad to see that FNH is a standup company. Where is my SCAR-L? Max

What is stand up about it? Some whiner reloaded brass with a bullet weight the gun was never designed to shoot, then blew it up. FN wouldn't replace his gun because it wasn't their fault so he went crying on every gun board on the net, and ultimately FN gave him a new gun when they shouldn't have, just to get him out of their hair. Basically FN and all their customers bought this guy a new gun. God forbid if this guy ever orders hot coffee at McDonalds.

I say stupidity should hurt!

D'oh did I just say that

Quoted: Quoted: I am glad to see that FNH is a standup company. Where is my SCAR-L? Max What is stand up about it? Some whiner reloaded brass with a bullet weight the gun was never designed to shoot, then blew it up. FN wouldn't replace his gun because it wasn't their fault so he went crying on every gun board on the net, and ultimately FN gave him a new gun when they shouldn't have, just to get him out of their hair. Basically FN and all their customers bought this guy a new gun. God forbid if this guy ever orders hot coffee at McDonalds.

I agree the reloader was stupid.

However, FNH gave him a break.  That is customer service.  Also the hot coffee in McDonald's has the temperature lowered and a warning label saying "HOT".  I used to work there.

The world is full of stupid people, there is nothing laws, rules, warnings, signs etc... will ever prevent stupidity.

I own several FN products and only use factory rounds.  I do not reload because I really don't know what I am doing.  The OP was down right stupid not to see if the pistol was designed to shoot that type of round.

Again the reloader was stupid.  FNH has my money.  I have used their products in Iraq and they work.

Max

What a bonehead.  Create your own mystery load then whine about it blowing up your gun.

I've loaded a few million rounds on various progressives, commercially, and always stay within the published guidelines.  The Ramshot loading guide even gives a very specific warning.

Special Notes:
1) This is an extremely sensitive caliber, please adhere closely to indicated loads and COL guidelines.
2) Allways begin loading at the MINIMUM "START" load and increase with 0.1grain increments
3) We strongly recommend using only FLATBASE bullets (especially in the Handgun)
4) When SP primers are to be used, a slightly lower performance can be expected
5) Add 10% to the above published velocities for the 10" barrel of the FN P90 PDW weapon
6) Excessive muzzle blast and flash is normal with this caliber

Stupid does hurt.  He showed the pictures.  

FN, do everybody a favor and do not reward stupidity.

You know maybe FN is trying to do the world a favor? Maybe next time this bone head will kill himself and we can read about it in the Darwin awards... We DO NOT need these genes to go on...!!!

They probably should have just said "sorry you voided your warrenty" and ignored him.

He was using the best of technology as well, a Lee hand press.  Use a $20 press to save money on a $1,000 firearm.  

Another example of penny wise, pound foolish.

Quoted: He was using the best of technology as well, a Lee hand press.  Use a $20 press to save money on a $1,000 firearm.   Another example of penny wise, pound foolish.

OK, I'll bite. What the fuck is wrong with a Lee hand press that could somehow cause this problem? Just because he did some stupid shit doesn't mean that everything he owns is just as stupid.

I'm not a Lee lover, but this is the dumbest fucking argument I've seen in a while.

Yeah, I can't fault him on the Lee hand press.

I can fault him for:

-Getting his load data from a ouiga board.

-Not having any way to check cartridge headspace.
(Maybe I missed it, did he have anything but calipers)

-Having too long of brass.

-Having too heavy a bullet of a not recommended shape.


OP should stick to Ruger revolvers if he wants to play fast and loose with his reloading practices.

+1 not to be a dick but you spoke of reloads, should've just played the " I duno it went boom in my hand and I have an Ow ey"

Kinda like running VP race gas through a stock Z06. It can be done but if you blow the motor and tell them it was ran on race gas, then the manufacture shrugs their shoulders (Meh) and tell you something to get rid of you. If its not in the manual then its not going to be covered by the manufacture. I know it sucks, but its their way out of situations like this.

Quoted: Quoted: He was using the best of technology as well, a Lee hand press.  Use a $20 press to save money on a $1,000 firearm.   Another example of penny wise, pound foolish. OK, I'll bite. What the fuck is wrong with a Lee hand press that could somehow cause this problem? Just because he did some stupid shit doesn't mean that everything he owns is just as stupid. I'm not a Lee lover, but this is the dumbest fucking argument I've seen in a while.

I'll grant you that the Lee hand press has probably loaded more .30-06, .270 and .30-30 rounds than any one single press, but fuckstick (that's you VG), here you have an asshole who is whining about his own mistakes using equipment that loads easy to load ammo well, but EVERY piece of data out there says it is a finicky round to hand load, even the factory folks say so.  The shoulder movement on the round itself is an issue that would baffle many an experienced reloader on just how to measure it correctly.  He states an incorrect COL (then an excuse once it is pointed out), but never talks about setting the shoulder back.  (Of course now, he will say he did.)

Do you think that any experienced reloader would try to form stock family brass into a wildcat using a hand press?  Can happen, but he spent $100 on his reloading set, max, inclusing dies.    

Do you think this guy has ANY reasonable experience loading rounds of different types, diagnosing issues, and so on?  Okay, so maybe he has loaded what, 1,000 rounds?  He gets his load data from some guy who sells reman ammo on the internet.  He doesn't do his own work-up on the ammo.  Instead of starting at a reasonable starting point her starts at Kaboom levels based on heresay.  He didn't own the data, just the stupidity to use it from an unproven source.  To compound the issue, he uses equipment that may or may not have the ability to move the shoulder back where it needs to be.  Any Lee "O" press could do it, but I have my doubts about the hand press.

Give me an hour on my 1050, or any other progressive machines on my benches and I'll have loaded more high quality ammo that this guy has in his lifetime.

<Removed. Posting personal attacks in the tech forums is a good way to get your account locked.  NorCal_LEO>

Yeah right.  Then again, maybe he spent the night at a Holiday Inn.

Ameso, you have a totally valid point that the hand press might not be able to set back the shoulder.

It might be better for all involved to tone down the personal attacks and just concentrate on debating issues.

Just a thought.

I'll be kinder and gentler now, as long as folks stop defending this guy's actions as sane and reasonable.  No offense meant.

Quoted: To compound the issue, he uses equipment that may or may not have the ability to move the shoulder back where it needs to be.  Any Lee "O" press could do it, but I have my doubts about the hand press.

On FNForum, it was brought up that even if he did get the shoulder correct, he was firing twice fired brass that had been stressed excessively at the shoulder from the expansion, resize, expansion, resize, and the final firing.  The 5.7 pistol doesn't support the case shoulder- rather the chamber is designed to allow the shoulder to expand or "puff" forward around the case neck to relieve pressures and aid in the proper timing of the firing cycle.

Likely the brass was so brittle from being overworked, it blew the shoulder off, which caused a chain reaction that led to the head split and subsequent KB.

AMESO, keep it clean.  Personal attacks in the tech forums are totally uncalled for and a clear violation of the CoC.

So somebody states that I bring up the "dumbest fucking argument ever" and refute it, and that is a personal attack?  I just replied with similar language and intent used.  He's a big boy, and doesn't need someone else to pat him on the back.

Notice how I responded civily to you?  No foul language and no insult to me = no foul language and no insult from me.  Meet force with force.

So back to the subject at hand, this whiner posts this all over the internet in an attempt to extort a new gun from FN......  

Quoted: So somebody states that I bring up the "dumbest fucking argument ever" and refute it, and that is a personal attack?  I just replied with similar language and intent used.  He's a big boy, and doesn't need someone else to pat him on the back.

There's a difference between what you posted and what he posted.

I'm not going to split hairs with you over this, but I will say you need to learn the difference if you plan to stay on this forum for long.

I'm sure you would see it differently if you were the person someone used foul language towards and was insulted.  Fair enough.  Let's get back to the subject at hand.

Quoted: I'll grant you that the Lee hand press has probably loaded more .30-06, .270 and .30-30 rounds than any one single press, but fuckstick (that's you VG), here you have an asshole who is whining about his own mistakes using equipment that loads easy to load ammo well, but EVERY piece of data out there says it is a finicky round to hand load, even the factory folks say so.  The shoulder movement on the round itself is an issue that would baffle many an experienced reloader on just how to measure it correctly.  He states an incorrect COL (then an excuse once it is pointed out), but never talks about setting the shoulder back.  (Of course now, he will say he did.) Do you think that any experienced reloader would try to form stock family brass into a wildcat using a hand press?  Can happen, but he spent $100 on his reloading set, max, inclusing dies.     Do you think this guy has ANY reasonable experience loading rounds of different types, diagnosing issues, and so on?  Okay, so maybe he has loaded what, 1,000 rounds?  He gets his load data from some guy who sells reman ammo on the internet.  He doesn't do his own work-up on the ammo.  Instead of starting at a reasonable starting point her starts at Kaboom levels based on heresay.  He didn't own the data, just the stupidity to use it from an unproven source.  To compound the issue, he uses equipment that may or may not have the ability to move the shoulder back where it needs to be.  Any Lee "O" press could do it, but I have my doubts about the hand press. Give me an hour on my 1050, or any other progressive machines on my benches and I'll have loaded more high quality ammo that this guy has in his lifetime. <Removed. Posting personal attacks in the tech forums is a good way to get your account locked.  NorCal_LEO> Yeah right.  Then again, maybe he spent the night at a Holiday Inn.

I see. It's the "Blue" pride that drives you to insult me. You could have just stuck to making a real argument, but instead, you decide that I'm an idiot because you made a statement that you really can't back up. Interesting.

If you actually had the powers of observation that most humans and pseudo-humans are capable of, you'd note that I'm not defending this guy. What he did was stupid. What've you done is nearly as stupid. I just wish your stupidity hurt as much as his.

See, he can stick up for himself.  Welcome back!

I reload.  I fully accept up front that if I get a kaboom that it's a 99% chance that I screwed up.  Therefore I am diligent in my efforts.

On out-of-battery condition could be caused by an inadequately sized case or a bullet seated incorrectly.  If the firearm then drops the firing pin, what's the true cause of the outcome?  The incorrectly loaded ammunition.  The firearm COULD have had a failsafe against such neglegence, but it isn't a requirement of the design.

It would be NICE if manufacturers forgave stupidity at their, and their consumer's, expense.  But I certainly don't EXPECT it.

Sure, join Hillary and the gang, file an uwarranted law suit against a firearm manufacturer.  Drain them of money, put them out of business.  Yeah, that'll teach them.  Stupid pays.

C97

OP got way more than he deserved.

I don't believe you because I did the same test on my 5-7 pistol and couldn't dent a primer. I measured 1/16" slide offset, or approximately 0.06" with my calipers and my pistol did not touch the primer after several attempts.

The guy just posted a video of a 5-7 firing out of battery and measured it with calipers and you don't believe it because you can't replicate it? I'm going to start playing the lottery because if they can win so can I.

Seriously, why would someone put a video of their own weapon failing a test if it was not true? No one likes to have weapons that can be dangerous to the user but I'm glad some people inform others when they do.

I'm not speculating as to whether or not the gun fired out of battery or if the reloads were fucked up, especially as I know NOTHING about reloading, but if someone puts up a video of their own 5-7 firing out of battery I'm gonna believe it.