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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:25:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Ok we'll use 350 rounds as a base for dirty. I'll assume that prior to reaching dirty that the pistols functioned properly YES? Please articulate to me why reasonable person would claim that any pistol design capable of 350 rounds of sustained use without cleaning would be deemed unreliable? Even in COMBAT conditions pistols don't go 350 rounds without cleaning! |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:26:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Had a Springfield GI model. Would stovepipe and eject rounds right back in my face. Plus the sights completely sucked.
Though newer commercial models have improved the problems with the horrible sights of the original, and incorporated other improvements like increasing the size of the ejection port, the anemic magazine capacity still turns me off. They are a part of history, and certainly are a handsome gun, but I'm glad they're not a major part of the US military anymore. They were a good gun up through WW2, but have been surpassed by more modern designs long ago. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:27:58 PM EDT
[#3]
As was pointed out by a previous poster, most 1911 owners like to personalise their pistols. With different trigger legnth options, mainspring housing options, grip options, etc......one can "custom fit" their 1911 to their hand. My Colt Series 70 "repro" is almost boring to shoot! It feeds everything I stuff into it! My current carry load are Speer 200gr. Gold Dots (they mushroom like a MoFo). And there are 1911's out there that can feed empty cases!!! The 1911 may not be your "thing". You can prefer to carry a Glock, Sig or whatever........that's your personal preferance. However, just like all .40 Glocks don't KB, killing innnocent women, children, nuns, puppies, etc, rest assured that the vast majority of "quality" 1911's out there will feed anything you feed it. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:28:41 PM EDT
[#4]
funny, my glock does, my hipower does. and my loose as a goose Llama 1911 that I had years ago would as well. hell even my commie CZ52 has gone into the 500+ range in one day without cleaning without so much as a problem. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:29:23 PM EDT
[#5]
350 rounds is a good afternoon at the range. Any decent pistol, 1911s included, should be able to do 350 without a hiccup. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:30:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Ever see a Marine Corp MEUSOC 1911? They're soldering on as we speak in both Afghanistan and Iraq. MEUSOC]www.hqmc.usmc.mil/factfile.nsf/0/d6a3fc7de02523fe8525627c006c5814?OpenDocument |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 12:31:45 PM EDT
[#7]
Please articulate to me why reasonable person would claim that any pistol design capable of 350 rounds of sustained use without cleaning would be deemed unreliable? |
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Posted: 4/9/2006 4:08:42 AM EDT
[#8]
It's not bullshit, that's why one can find countless articles exist on tuning the 1911. Virtually none exist for more modern guns, target or combat designed. The articles wouldn't be there if there was no need for them. And the excuse that many manufacturers produced them carelessly doesn't fly with me. When I read many top of the line Kimber owners posting here about nightmares getting them running, though they paid twice as much as the would have for a Glock, and still 1.5 times as much as they would have for an expensive, but no tuning needed Sig. I'll reiterate that it's not a pile, but just like a Garand, it did well in it's time, and deserves respect from the past, but current owners are holding a design that's become outdated in many ways, most notably in reliable high capacity in the same caliber. I give it the same respect one gives a great revolver. |
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Posted: 4/11/2006 4:21:38 AM EDT
[#9]
I believe he calls it the Concept IV now..... The only regret I have is the checkering on the front strap. Conventional wisdom at the time was that it was needed to help you keep control of the weapon under recoil. Conventional wisdom was wrong, as I discovered the first time I took it to a training class. The checkering did not help me control the weapon under recoil, but 4,000 rounds of shooting in a week DID manage to remove skin and render my hands almost useless for a couple of weeks. That's when I learned one of the most necessary things to take on any training......Medical tape. If I had it to do over again, I would get what he calls the Concept II, an all blued weapon with no checkering. |
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Posted: 4/11/2006 4:13:15 AM EDT
[#10]
Most Marines would probably love to get their hands on the 1911 that the MEUSOC guys have..... |
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Posted: 4/11/2006 4:18:16 AM EDT
[#11]
Nice Baer, JW. What model is it? |
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Posted: 4/11/2006 8:11:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Serrations are a good frontstrap texture that is easy on the hand.
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Posted: 4/12/2006 3:04:11 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:03:40 AM EDT
[#14]
So, then should I get a Glock 22 over a 1911 for my next pistol?
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:04:42 AM EDT
[#15]
yes, or a glock 21 if you feel the urge for .45acp(and if you can wrap your hand around the grip, it's pretty fat)
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:08:52 AM EDT
[#16]
My Glock Armorer friend seems to always have work................nothing lasts forever.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:08:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Yes. It's just as accurate as a 1911, doesn't need "Tuned" to operate with any type of ammo and even holding 15 rounds is still lighter than a 1911. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:15:45 AM EDT
[#18]
I have a Kimber that has issues for over a year now.
Its been back to kimber 5 times, had a new replacement gun. Getting rid of it and buying a springfield. If this springfield has ANY issues, I'm done with 1911's. I wanted so bad for it to work out and I just keep getting screwed. Simple fact: day in day out factory made guns in current assembly line fashion and the 1911's design just don't mix. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:19:34 AM EDT
[#19]
My Springfield GI just keeps on running, ball or hollowpoint.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:25:27 AM EDT
[#20]
One guy will have a 1911 that he says sucks and another will have one with 40,000 rounds with no problems. I wont say it's a crapshoot but any mechanical device has the potential for trouble. I was shooting with my best friend and my two 1911's (one Colt officers model and a full size SA) were flawless and his Glock 45 jammes a couple of times.I don't like polymer pistols or the fat high cap grips ( I have an HK iwant to sell) so it will always be a 1911 for me.I also get a little tired of all the questions about 1911 reliability. The guys with great ones don't have anything to complain about and the guys who get a bum one complain about it and every one chimes in as if the design is shit and your lucky when you get a good one.
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:25:31 AM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:29:22 AM EDT
[#22]
You tell me: Glock:  1911:  Seriously the 1911 is battle proven it was a frontline weapon from 1911-1986?, and is still a favoret of special forces, there is no substitute, just get a surplus millitary 1911A1, and not one of the junky Comercial ones.... |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:34:09 AM EDT
[#23]
Yeah, but battle proven with FMJ ammo, not modern HP rounds |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:34:51 AM EDT
[#24]
Where do I get a Mil-surp one? |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:35:49 AM EDT
[#25]
have you even looked at the price of a milsurp one these days? and by the way any gun will blow up if you put bad ammo in it, even the 1911 |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:38:36 AM EDT
[#26]
My Colts all run like the Energizer bunny. my kimber is so tight it jams of powder fouling after 400 or so rounds. My para-ord 14-45 only feeds ball reliably and chokes on hollowpoints.
 If you get a bad one, it may be a bad one. try again. the design works like a charm. A frequent ammo customer really like the Thunder Ranch gun from Les Baer. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:39:32 AM EDT
[#27]
The new Colts come with the BBL throated [dimpled] for hollowpoint use. It works VERY well. Very good design. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:42:00 AM EDT
[#28]
+1 Those SA GI's are something else. They haven't been around that long, but I think it is possible that they are the most reliable 1911's on the market. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 10:43:27 AM EDT
[#29]
probably because they are built the way a combat handgun should be, loose. super tight handbuilt guns are great for target but they suck ass for reliability |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:25:23 PM EDT
[#30]
The notion that a 1911 needs "tuning" to function properly is complete crap, IMO. A properly built USGI 1911A1 does not need any tuning, or adjustments, or anything of the sort to function reliably.
Don't blame the DESIGN for the faults of subsequent builders who decided to dick with the basic concept later on. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:28:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Exactly! Who wouldn't rather have a weapon with a high tolerance to debris getting into the weapon and still function reliably vs a low tolerance. I know where you're coming from. I own a bunch of 1911's (including 2 Wilsons) and have been shooting them and other pistols for 25 years. I can assure you that the pistol I choose to defend the life of myself and my family is one of my Sigs. The 1911's are great at the range, and are works of art, but I just don't trust them 100%. They tend to run great for a while, and then all of a sudden, they'll start having strange functioning issues (even when clean). They are simply too finicky for me.  |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:30:43 PM EDT
[#32]
Amen, brother! |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:40:59 PM EDT
[#33]
500 round BREAK IN without cleaning or malfunction doing controlled pairs at 10 yards.
  Yeah I'd say that's unreliable. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:43:07 PM EDT
[#34]
so much for not needing to be 350+ capable huh? 
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:49:45 PM EDT
[#35]
That's a Warrior, not hand fitted super tight like my PRO. 
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Posted: 4/8/2006 2:57:52 PM EDT
[#36]
If the Marines and FBI didn't exist in that form in the 1940's, why are they still using the technology from that time?
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Posted: 4/8/2006 3:10:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Springfield Armory. One WW2 GI, One Milspec [SS] and one Champion. [Those are the one's I had problems with.] All the rest are USGI or Colt. I have had very, very, little go wrong with them. Usually when something did go wrong, it was me dinking around with this or that, or trying add ons out. One of my USGIs did [1941 Colt] have an extractor claw break, but the thing was also probably original as the BBL was original also along with all the other small bits. Matching serial numbers on the frame and under the FP stop on the slide. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 7:25:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Lets look at how many manufacturers of Glocks there are. ONE as in 1 as in there is only ONE manufacturer of them. Now, lets look at 1911s and 1911A1s, Colt, RIA, Rem Rand, AMT, Ithica, Springfield, Auto Ordnance, US&S, Springfield Armory, Sig, S&W, Llama [close variation], Taurus, Singer, Remington Arms, Rock River Wilson, Baer, and others. That does not include the custom builders and such. Some are built to a certain standard and others are, well, lacking to say the least.
I'll be the first to say Glocks are pretty damn reliable but part of that reliability is because the chamber is not supported as well as a 1911. There is a reason that when they went to the .40 they had problems and still do to this day with case blowout. The design sacrificed some measure of safety for reliability. I think it was a fair tradeoff and brass is pretty good today but if there is a weak case there are enough pics out there that shows what can happen on occasion. As far as reliability of the 1911 design. If I can have a 38 special 1911 that feeds full wadcutter revolver ammo reliably that is as original as it was on day one, the design can feed anything out there. It all depends on how well it was built and put together. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:12:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Reading comprehension is so low on this board of late.  "sigh"
If you can't take 20 minutes to clean your carry gun after shooting it you got no business bitching if it don't work when you need it. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:16:02 PM EDT
[#40]
I do. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:17:43 PM EDT
[#41]
The 1911 that I own that functions flawlessly day in and day out is a lightly modified Series 70 Colt. I put on a beaver tail, novaks and polished the feed ramp. It will function with everything I feed it; FMJ, hollow points etc. I had a Kimber Tactical that never failed; however, I only put 2oo rounds through it before I sold it. The other dinosaur I have that has never failed is my Browning Hi-Power. A note on the Hi-Power, as you probably know, it has seen more service by more armies than any other side arm I can think of. I like many of the modern handgun designs. I carry a Walther P99 compact during the summers. I pass on Glock, but like Sigs, Steyrs, and HK. Mr. Browning painted many masterpieces. Have fun |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:18:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Again you confuse ISSUES with the ability to customize, tune and maintain the 1911. Issues with your Sig send it back, issues with your Glock send it back .................... issues with your 1911 send it back OR fix it yourself with parts from ABCDEFGHIJK manufacturer and here's how. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:20:42 PM EDT
[#43]
this shows your lack of experience with SIGs and Glocks. on a 1911, an extractor needs to be "tuned" by an artist, on a glock or sig, it is a spring that takes a minute to swap out or if you manage to wear it out it is a drop in piece. trigger jobs on a glock take 10 minutes and cant be ruined by merely dropping the slide on an empty chamber. the beauty of modern pistols is that 99% of the time fitting is not required. 1911s have to be hand tuned/fitted for a good fit |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:24:50 PM EDT
[#44]
And I believe you. My point is simply this. WW III isn't happening tomorrow. The Zombies aren't comming. The End of the world hasn't happened and it is unreasonable to discount a piece of equipment based on arbitrary and unrealistic values. If you like Glocks carry a Glock If you like Sigs carry a Sig Don't however make false claims about the 1911. Those of use who know better carry one. Glock and 1911 owners run neck and neck in the popularity poles because they are both good weapons. The 1911 just has SOUL, is an AMERICAN design and has served this Country and its Sons & Daughters well for 95 years. If you can't understand that I can't help you. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:28:35 PM EDT
[#45]
but it is still not as reliable as newer designs. I am not debating that it is a cool pistol and has a rich history, it's just outdated. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:29:58 PM EDT
[#46]
I've been shooting 1911s for 30 years. Never had one tuned. It seems you have a problem with 1911s. Who cares. Currently the Marine Spec Ops carry 1911s. I guess they aren't as smart as you. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:32:41 PM EDT
[#47]
You're right, the 1911 is a piece of American history; hence I own one. However, the low capacity of it, the weight and the constant tuning needed to maintain it in fighting condition has forced me to realize that it's design has been surpassed by multiple firearms, including, but not limited to: Glock, Sig, even the XD. The 1911's time has passed. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:35:46 PM EDT
[#48]
I dont have a problem with 1911s I have a problem with people who constanty spout off that they are the only handgun worth owning. and the Marines are carrying them with hardball ammo, with armorers that are able to tune and repair them at a moments notice. my question is: was the glock 21 ever even considered for them? how about the SIG 220? |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#49]
It shows my understanding that the AVERAGE handgun owner is not going to try and fix his Sig or Glock. Neither do many of them build AR's, do thier own tune ups or rebuild engines.
See above
 ........ trigger job on a glock......... you mean replacing LINKAGE? To lighten the dartgun feel?
You are partialy correct here. The 1911 was designed in a time when every part was machined to demanding tolerances and pride in craftmanship was high. Today we have the expertise in CNC machinery to produce 1911's with drop in parts simplicity but production cost would near that of the semi Customs and would not sell. |
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Posted: 4/8/2006 1:38:45 PM EDT
[#50]
Tell it to the Marines and the FBI hostage rescue. |
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