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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:12:14 PM EDT
I've drank the cool aid and built out a Rattler 300BO SBR that's set up for HD. Shoots great, really happy with how it handles, etc. But this week I broke out my SBS 870 and shot a couple shells of 00 buck at the range. Holy hell, I forgot what an absolute mountain of hate a shotgun can throw out each time you pull the trigger!
Yes I know about spread and penetration. Yes I know it's fewer rounds on board. Yes it's longer, heavier, and will have lower capacity. But for a "fuck you and anyone else that comes through that door" kind of gun is there anything better? Not shopping for an M4 as we speak 
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:16:35 PM EDT
[#1]
mEaT FrOm bOnE
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:16:47 PM EDT
[#2]
So you think a 300 BLK Black Tip won't stop them?
You can easily fire off 3 rounds of 300 BLK with more precise placement for every shot of 00 from a shotgun. And be shorter and more maneuverable. So not sure why your 300 BLK doesn't fit the bill. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:17:36 PM EDT
[#3]
 Attached FileKSG25 has a lot of hate in a short package (picture shamelessly stolen from the arfcom archives) |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:17:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Forget it, I'm pretty sure shotguns aren't lethal anymore. I read that here.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:18:23 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you think a 300 BLK Black Tip won't stop them? You can easily fire off 3 rounds of 300 BLK with more precise placement for every shot of 00 from a shotgun. And be shorter and more maneuverable. So not sure why your 300 BLK doesn't fit the bill. How the hell does one rack a 300 blk?!? |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:20:15 PM EDT
[#6]
WWJMD?
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:20:20 PM EDT
[#7]
Good call OP, you never know when birds will invade your home.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:21:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Beretta 1301T or dont even bother.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:24:30 PM EDT
[#9]
M4 is a highly recommended purchase, such a sweet gun
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:25:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Fucking Flannel Daddy strikes again!
ETA: You’ve been sucked into watching his Beretta auto-loaders vids, haven’t you? |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:26:03 PM EDT
[#11]
I’m before the “more and more criminals wear body armor” crowd.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:29:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Get both?
Anyone who thinks a 1301 or Benelli M4 is useless in home defense is kidding themselves. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:29:24 PM EDT
[#13]
I have both ready. I'll grab whichever one I'm in the mood for when someone breaks in.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:29:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you think a 300 BLK Black Tip won't stop them? You can easily fire off 3 rounds of 300 BLK with more precise placement for every shot of 00 from a shotgun. And be shorter and more maneuverable. So not sure why your 300 BLK doesn't fit the bill. @-Obsessed- not saying it won't work, and there's 29 of them in my rattler right now. I know we love rifle stuff here but shotguns throwing buck or slugs certainly do have a certain "go fuck yourself" panache not seen elsewhere. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:29:57 PM EDT
[#15]
These threads are always
 ETA- I have an AR sitting next to me; the only shotgun not in the safe is a single shot H&R in the closet. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:31:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fucking Flannel Daddy strikes again! ETA: You’ve been sucked into watching his Beretta auto-loaders vids, haven’t you? @SIASL no haven't watched his series on shotguns recently. I grew up shooting skeet/trap and hunting in PA. We basically used 870s for everything. I didn't get into rifles till I moved into a different state and still don't shoot shotguns much. Even sold my FN SLP 3gun shotgun a few years back due to lack of use. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:32:52 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forget it, I'm pretty sure shotguns aren't lethal anymore. I read that here. Shotguns can have outstanding terminal performance with the right loads. That performance doesn’t occur in a vacuum. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:34:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @SIASL no haven't watched his series on shotguns recently. I grew up shooting skeet/trap and hunting in PA. We basically used 870s for everything. I didn't get into rifles till I moved into a different state and still don't shoot shotguns much. Even sold my FN SLP 3gun shotgun a few years back due to lack of use. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Fucking Flannel Daddy strikes again! ETA: You’ve been sucked into watching his Beretta auto-loaders vids, haven’t you? @SIASL no haven't watched his series on shotguns recently. I grew up shooting skeet/trap and hunting in PA. We basically used 870s for everything. I didn't get into rifles till I moved into a different state and still don't shoot shotguns much. Even sold my FN SLP 3gun shotgun a few years back due to lack of use. Ah…my mistake. Timing is conspicuous is all. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:34:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who thinks a 1301 or Benelli M4 is useless in home defense is kidding themselves. Go ahead and use a shotgun for HD if you want. For that matter, CCW a revolver, if that's your cup of tea. You'll probably be fine. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:39:26 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've never heard anyone suggest that - simply that, all things considered, a rifle is probably a better choice. Go ahead and use a shotgun for HD if you want. For that matter, CCW a revolver, if that's your cup of tea. You'll probably be fine. You must not have seen the “shotguns are only fir birds” crew yet. I have both available and both will work just fine. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:41:24 PM EDT
[#21]
I know a guy who can repeatedly put slugs on a 10” gong @50 yds. Another who can hit Deer vital zone repeatedly at 125 yards and under but they’re useless on anything but sparrows and starlings.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:42:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Mossberg 500, Federal LE 00buck, fore end with built in 1000 lumen light.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:43:33 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know a guy who can repeatedly put slugs on a 10” gong @50 yds. Another who can hit Deer vital zone repeatedly at 125 yards and under but they’re useless on anything but sparrows and starlings. So can I as this isn’t difficult. It’s easier to do with a rifle. It’s a hell of a lot easier if you’re moving, under stress, engaging multiple targets or have to incorporate a reload. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:45:05 PM EDT
[#24]
18" smooth bore with OO buck only has about 7" spread at the longest shot in my house.
I have many more options with more capacity, and more proficient for me. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:52:34 PM EDT
[#25]
I used to keep an M4 in a hornady shotgun wall safe above the bedroom closet entrance. It made a perfect setup. Type in 4 digit code and the lid flips up and when you pull out the gun it automatically chambered a round. Then I realized I really don't ever want to shoot a 12 gauge in the house so I moved on to a suppressed P226.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:53:32 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These threads are always ETA- I have an AR sitting next to me; the only shotgun not in the safe is a single shot H&R in the closet. Both lungs and the heart hit resulting in DRT. One shot fired; 9 pellet 00 buck. Shotguns are awesome. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 1:56:07 PM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:00:18 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Both lungs and the heart hit resulting in DRT. One shot fired; 9 pellet 00 buck. Shotguns are awesome. If you hit someone with a .69 caliber muzzle loader square in the chest I’m sure it will also produce impressive results. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:00:36 PM EDT
[#29]
8-9 projectiles per trigger pull is nothing to sneeze at.
Especially with 8 rounds in reserve. True while you will lack the range of a Rifle. But for defensive distances it's still fine. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:05:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you think a 300 BLK Black Tip won't stop them? You can easily fire off 3 rounds of 300 BLK with more precise placement for every shot of 00 from a shotgun. And be shorter and more maneuverable. So not sure why your 300 BLK doesn't fit the bill. You are supposed to encourage the OP to buy an M4 or 1301T. Not tell him he’s wrong. What’s wrong with you Bro? |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:07:07 PM EDT
[#31]
If I had the money a Benelli m1014 without question. That being said, if you weren't issued one and have a nostalgic place in your heart for one then a Beretta will save you a few hundred bucks.
If you're just getting by then a Mossberg.  Attached FileLoaded with 9 pellet full power flight control buckshot |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:07:26 PM EDT
[#32]
I read somewhere, I think it was an FBI paper, that the average home intrusion shooting engagement distance was about 15 feet. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
Anyways, at 15 feet you don't even need sights on a rifle or hand gun(or shot gun for that matter). In the time it takes someone to put 3 bullets into someone at 15 feet with sights or no sights, a shotgunner with 00 buck could have 27 buck shots in the same general area. (9x3=27) Lets say you have an AR in any bullet , you pick it doesn't matter the round, and you do 3 rounds in 2 seconds. Now do 12 gauge 00 buckshot. # rounds in 2 seconds is 27 lead buck shots. 3 vs 27 the shotgun clearly wins. Going to be close to the same group size as the AR being the distance is 15 feet. Point of interest: Id bet the actual weight of the projectiles minus the brass is in favor of shotgun if you compare a semi auto shotgun to an AR seeing which one has more projectile mass in general terms. 00buck weight : 58 grains each. 9 buck shots per round. 5 round mag. 9x5=45. 58x45= 2610 grains. 5.56 weight 62 grains. 62x30 is 1860 grains. Buck wins. now lets do ftlb of energy. 12ga 00 buck= 3312ftlbe 3312x5=16560ftlbe 5.56 1323ftlbe 1323x30=39690ftlbe 5.56 CLEARLY wins. I suck at math so if I am wrong please correct me. Maybe throw an insult in too if you are annoyed by my reply. But it's just something to think about. They both have advantages and disadvantages. Use what works for YOU is the bottom line. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:08:33 PM EDT
[#33]
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:08:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you hit someone with a .69 caliber muzzle loader square in the chest I’m sure it will also produce impressive results. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Both lungs and the heart hit resulting in DRT. One shot fired; 9 pellet 00 buck. Shotguns are awesome. If you hit someone with a .69 caliber muzzle loader square in the chest I’m sure it will also produce impressive results. If it wasn't for flight control buckshot I wouldn't own buckshot. It does work great up close but patterns open so fast I really don't like shooting it past 15-20 yards |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:13:40 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Get both? Anyone who thinks a 1301 or Benelli M4 is useless in home defense is kidding themselves. They certainly aren't useless or lacking in lethality but there is better options today. There is a reason most cops use carbines instead of shotguns. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:16:48 PM EDT
[#36]
Shotguns are awesome, devistating weapons at close range against unarmored enemies. I just have too much trigger time on AR pattern rifles to pickup anything else in a high stress situation.
If only a shotgun was an option I’d choose a 870P or an older 870 with metal internals for a pump or a Beretta 1301 or A300 Patrol for a semi auto. Most people choosing to use shotguns for home defense aren’t training with them for tactical applications. That’s the real issue. Manipulating shotguns is a unique and separate skill set. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:24:25 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Forget it, I'm pretty sure shotguns aren't lethal anymore. I read that here. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:24:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: I've drank the cool aid and built out a Rattler 300BO SBR that's set up for HD. Shoots great, really happy with how it handles, etc. But this week I broke out my SBS 870 and shot a couple shells of 00 buck at the range. Holy hell, I forgot what an absolute mountain of hate a shotgun can throw out each time you pull the trigger! Yes I know about spread and penetration. Yes I know it's fewer rounds on board. Yes it's longer, heavier, and will have lower capacity. But for a "fuck you and anyone else that comes through that door" kind of gun is there anything better? Not shopping for an M4 as we speak Remington 870 with a Vangcomp barrel will print into a pie plate at 25 yds. biggest mistake I've made in the last 15 yrs was getting rid of that shotgun |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:27:20 PM EDT
[#39]
A shotgun is a great way to get to your rifle.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:29:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Shotguns weakest link is reload time
Weakest link for any long gun is the whole "needs two hands" thing, and for some is the oal Perfect defense gun is situational/location affected too |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:30:14 PM EDT
[#41]
I'll go against the arfcom grain and agree that few weapons are more potent than buckshot at across the room distances. Many inside the house problems can be solved with 6-10 shells worth of buckshot on tap. The benelli M4 is obviously the gold standard of combat shotguns, but for a grand less you can't go wrong with a Beretta 1301T either.
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:35:06 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shotguns are awesome, devistating weapons at close range against unarmored enemies. I just have too much trigger time on AR pattern rifles to pickup anything else in a high stress situation. The beauty of shotguns for people of my generation - say anyone born between maybe 1940 and 1990 - we grew up shooting 870s like extensions of our arms. Yesterday we had a minor farm emergency - intruder varmint in the yard/pasture - and when my wife came screaming into the house, I was up, the 870 was loaded, business was handled, and I never consciously had to think about the gun. It was in my hands, proper load was selected, varmint dead. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:37:35 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted: Not shopping for an M4 as we speak The juice is worth the squeeze. 
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:39:41 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m before the “more and more criminals wear body armor” crowd. Body armor won’t matter if your hit CM with a load of 00, you will be laid out on the ground like getting hit by a bus. If your aim is off a little due to stress, won’t matter. https://youtu.be/4DSOyBl2vo0 |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:42:32 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mossberg 500, Federal LE 00buck, fore end with built in 1000 lumen light. Remington 1100 Tactical, 8 rounds of Federal FliteControl 00B, a shake awake Holosun green dot & a really really bright light (I forgot what kind) |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:42:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Body armor won’t matter if your hit CM with a load of 00, you will be laid out on the ground like getting hit by a bus. If your aim is off a little due to stress, won’t matter. https://youtu.be/4DSOyBl2vo0 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m before the “more and more criminals wear body armor” crowd. Body armor won’t matter if your hit CM with a load of 00, you will be laid out on the ground like getting hit by a bus. If your aim is off a little due to stress, won’t matter. https://youtu.be/4DSOyBl2vo0 That's not how it works. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:45:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good call OP, you never know when birds will invade your home. The bird argument is the absolute most retarded thing I’ve ever read in GD. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:52:12 PM EDT
[#48]
The biggest issue with home defense by far is time on target to stop the threat. That's due to the fact that if you are deploying a weapon it's likely a two way range, and you are firing said weapon to dispatch the threat as timely as is humanly possible.
Like it or not, most shotguns, if you do your part, will result in a near immediate stop of an assailant. Which matters because you are defending a soft target, which is most houses, and where the people you care about most probably are. Stop the threat. Right now. Pistols don't always do that. Rifles either. But for rifles and shotguns, ammo choices matter. 77 gr tmk. 12 gauge full power 00 buck. Pistols are weak sauce on any two way range. They take too long, and/or too many rounds to have effect on target. Shotguns for home defense start around 200 dollars. They dont need to be zeroed. They do need to be patterned. You don't need a dot, or buis, or special stuff to make them work. Safety, slide, and bang switch. Job done. |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 2:55:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The bird argument is the absolute most retarded thing I’ve ever read in GD. That’s a hell of a claim! |
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Posted: 6/3/2023 3:12:42 PM EDT
[#50]
Beretta 1301 or A300 patrol for the win.
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