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Posted: 12/12/2020 7:51:46 PM EDT
I've only bought two brand new bikes in my life and neither one did the dealer add much other than a doc fee.
Recently looking and it seem the new thing is over a grand in bullshit add on fees. Is this common or am I just shopping at the wrong dealers? Here's the quote I got for a new Tenere 700. $9999 for the bike $425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling + tax and title |
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Its so they can publish a lower price.... yet not lose their profit margin.
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I just bought 2 dirt bikes and was only charged $30 doc fee, title and tax. I got a apples to apples quote from another dealer and they were $700 more per bike with bullshit fees. Find another dealer.
eta... work the bottom line price, if they discount the bike by the amount of the fees you can end up paying what you want. |
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They tried adding all that crap to me at Al Lamb's Honda in Dallas almost 20 years ago. I walked out.
In contrast there was a Kawasaki dealer in Irving that had cash OTD prices labeled on each bike in the shop. I bought there. |
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The auto industry has been doing this for decades. Look at an invoice for a luxo like a M-B, BMW, or Cadidliac. There are items on there they can’t explain. Like “dealer handling”, and other vague descriptions and charges. So it seems the motorcycle dealers are learning.
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@farscrape Sounds like we must ride some of the same roads. Have dealt with those dealers and others in the metromess.
OP, most dealers now seem to hold form on the freight, but many will pull the other fees. If you're buying a popular model this year, they may not. In our AO, bike dealers are having record years because people took the government handout money and out of down on motorcycles. |
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Quoted: I've only bought two brand new bikes in my life and neither one did the dealer add much other than a doc fee. Recently looking and it seem the new thing is over a grand in bullshit add on fees. Is this common or am I just shopping at the wrong dealers? Here's the quote I got for a new Tenere 700. $9999 for the bike $425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling + tax and title View Quote The dealer I worked for was doing that back in 2004 and they were doing that long before I got there. |
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Motorcycle dealers have added in freight and set-up since long before I bought my first new motorcycle (1983 Kawasaki GpZ1100).
I had to save up a few more months and work an extra odd job to pay for the "extras" I didn't know about. These days most manufacturers include the price of freight on the actual price tag, in their advertising literature or on their website so it should not be a surprise. BMW: MSRP excludes destination & handling fee of $495, tax, title, license and registration. Kawasaki: Destination Charge $410 -Dealer sets the actual destination charge, your price may vary. KTM: MSRP plus $ 450 Freight. That's from the manufacturer, your dealer has to pay that, so it's passed on to you the consumer. Most dealerships will tell you they have to charge you set-up, set-up has to be done and then card/computer has to be signed off in order to get the dealership off the liability hook. If I am buying a new current year bike I expect to pay full MSRP, Freight, Set-up, Tax, License and Documentation fees. If I can talk the dealer down on the price or get them to drop the freight or set-up I think I am doing well. If it's the end of the year I use the "flooring fees" to negotiate a better price. If you can wait most manufacturers have "end of the year" or "clearance" sales. |
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425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling View Quote This is called the cost of doing business. You tell the finance guy he can take all those off or you will just go somewhere else. My recent car purchase the dealer tried a $1300 "inspection and oil change" fee and then a $2500 "tint and wheel locks" fee. I laughed and said nope, don't want it. Finance guy tried to say its non-negotiable and comes with all the cars. I asked for a copy of the invoices for the "inspection and oil change" let alone the cost of wheel locks and tint. After getting alittle pissed off at him for running my credit and taking that hit, and THEN trying to spring bullshit charges, I said im canceling the deal. Needless to say the salesman freaked out (probably the easiest sale of his life) and the sales manager dropped all the bs. |
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Vehicles are just one of those things that you have to just work with the end price and go from there. I don’t care what they call it I just find out what the final number is.
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Its been common for decades, I negotiate the out the door price. I don't give AF if they charge me $5000 set up fee as long as the final price is what I want.
Tax and title fees can vary by state, in MO we pay none of that at the dealer, its all robbed from us at the DMV. Thats something to keep on mind when making a fair comparison. |
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Been like that forever.
But whatever....... Nice bike, that new Tenere. Now post some pics, OP! |
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Buddy sells bikes. Said he has been throwing $1k setup on top of msrp and people don’t bitch. One guy told him dealer in the Seattle area was at $2k markup.
Pre pandemic they always waived the fee. |
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Quoted: Been like that forever. But whatever....... Nice bike, that new Tenere. Now post some pics, OP! View Quote Found the paperwork. There was two additional fees other than taxes. $89 title fee $150 for a horn and mirror and they took care of paperwork so I could plate it (for those that don't know the XCW's aren't sold as street legal). |
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in 1998/1999 I looked at the new Yamaha R6 at two different dealers in Illinois and bought at one. MSRP on the bike was $7999 and I paid $8600 out the door. Both were charging about the same.
That bike was stolen and I wound buying another in NC. I wound up paying the same but I think I had to tell the dealer I wouldn't pay anymore than I paid the first time. Around Camp LeJeune, there was a dealer that had the market cornered, and they routinely over charged young dumb Marines. I know one kid that paid about $10K for a $6K MSRP Katana. In addition to the exorbitant fees they already charged, they told him they had to charge him another $2K because he didn't have any credit and they were taking a bigger risk financing him. When I used to look at new bikes, the dealers always had fees. I would even look at dealers a couple hundred miles away and they would have them. What I found years ago was that the best time to get a new motorcycle is up north as the riding season is ending. Barring new/popular models which are usually sold out anyway, I have seen dealers slash prices a good bit to not be stuck with inventory. I recall R1s were usually about $10K at the time, I would see dealers in the Chicago area advertising them for $8600 or so come winter time. |
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Tell the dealer that if they "handle" it, the bike is used and you want a substantial price reduction.
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Adding the fees for motorcycles has been common practice for a long time, at least here in Missouri. I know the dealers have been adding the fees since at least the mid 80's when I bought my first brand new motorcycle.
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Probably no fees depending on the location and how competitive the dealers are.
Did you buy the bikes from the same dealer? Same county/state? |
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Put a deposit down today with the only dealer that didn't have any extra fees (other than a $75 doc fee) and was a bit less than MSRP on the bike where all the others were at MSRP plus a bunch of fees.
Saved myself over $1k vs buying elsewhere. Hoping for March delivery. |
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Quoted: Put a deposit down today with the only dealer that didn't have any extra fees (other than a $75 doc fee) and was a bit less than MSRP on the bike where all the others were at MSRP plus a bunch of fees. Saved myself over $1k vs buying elsewhere. Hoping for March delivery. View Quote Good shopping, congrats! |
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Quoted: Put a deposit down today with the only dealer that didn't have any extra fees (other than a $75 doc fee) and was a bit less than MSRP on the bike where all the others were at MSRP plus a bunch of fees. Saved myself over $1k vs buying elsewhere. Hoping for March delivery. View Quote |
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There is reason they are actually stealerships.
Will never pay another dealer FEE. If we agree on a price that's it. 10k doesn't mean 11K, no adding BS for whatever reason. Same with car dealers. Last dealer that tried that crap on me I quickly picked up the cash on the table. Stood up and started walking out. Well guess who didn't have to pay any fee's. People need to start standing up to this BS. The more of you morons that simple just go along, the worse it gets. Same goes with advertising a low price then adding fee's. It's false advertising and WE need to confront the dirty deed. Do you really trust a business that pulls this crap. |
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"new motorcycle..... when did the dealers start adding all the fees?"
When they found out that most people are dumb and they are willing to pay it. |
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Quoted: "new motorcycle..... when did the dealers start adding all the fees?" When they found out that most people are dumb and they are willing to pay it. View Quote Last spring I started contacting dealers because I wanted a bike. I had an eye on the Harley Street Rod and the Yamaha Bolt. The experience was bad enough that I lost the desire to buy a bike at all, and have determined that I will never buy a Harley. |
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Quoted: Last spring I started contacting dealers because I wanted a bike. I had an eye on the Harley Street Rod and the Yamaha Bolt. The experience was bad enough that I lost the desire to buy a bike at all, and have determined that I will never buy a Harley. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: "new motorcycle..... when did the dealers start adding all the fees?" When they found out that most people are dumb and they are willing to pay it. Last spring I started contacting dealers because I wanted a bike. I had an eye on the Harley Street Rod and the Yamaha Bolt. The experience was bad enough that I lost the desire to buy a bike at all, and have determined that I will never buy a Harley. It can be weird for sure. Sales thot at an HD dealership told me they dont tell her how much the bikes cost, just what the monthly payment are |
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Quoted: I've only bought two brand new bikes in my life and neither one did the dealer add much other than a doc fee. Recently looking and it seem the new thing is over a grand in bullshit add on fees. Is this common or am I just shopping at the wrong dealers? Here's the quote I got for a new Tenere 700. $9999 for the bike $425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling + tax and title View Quote That's why I never buy new.......you get raped. |
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Quoted: That's why I never buy new.......you get raped. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I've only bought two brand new bikes in my life and neither one did the dealer add much other than a doc fee. Recently looking and it seem the new thing is over a grand in bullshit add on fees. Is this common or am I just shopping at the wrong dealers? Here's the quote I got for a new Tenere 700. $9999 for the bike $425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling + tax and title That's why I never buy new.......you get raped. Not always the case, I've bought 3 new bikes all at great prices. Two were cheaper than comparable used bikes. You do have to shop around though. My son was wanting a Duke 390, we found them from $3500 OTD to $5499 + rape charges. All dealers were within an hour drive. |
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Quoted: It can be weird for sure. Sales thot at an HD dealership told me they dont tell her how much the bikes cost, just what the monthly payment are View Quote Plenty of car dealerships do that too. Know your customer. Harley had crazy loan terms 20 years ago. Think you could do 84 months. |
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Quoted: That's why I never buy new.......you get raped. View Quote The last new bike I bought was the last year of that model and was the last one I could find for sale, 2015 KTM 200 XC-W, now they command a premium on the used market. The Tenere 700 will come to: $9,799 (MSRP is $9,999) + $75 doc fee and sales tax Now I gotta try and get rid of this stupid Harley I bought on a whim last summer to make some room in the garage. Anybody want a 2002 Heritage Softail for kinda cheap? |
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Quoted: I normally don't. This is a new model to the USA this year and they are all but impossible to find. I did see one used one locally for sale, it sold in a couple of hours for more than MSRP. The last new bike I bought was the last year of that model and was the last one I could find for sale, 2015 KTM 200 XC-W, now they command a premium on the used market. The Tenere 700 will come to: $9,799 (MSRP is $9,999) + $75 doc fee and sales tax Now I gotta try and get rid of this stupid Harley I bought on a whim last summer to make some room in the garage. Anybody want a 2002 Heritage Softail for kinda cheap? View Quote $350!! |
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Quoted: Quoted: I normally don't. This is a new model to the USA this year and they are all but impossible to find. I did see one used one locally for sale, it sold in a couple of hours for more than MSRP. The last new bike I bought was the last year of that model and was the last one I could find for sale, 2015 KTM 200 XC-W, now they command a premium on the used market. The Tenere 700 will come to: $9,799 (MSRP is $9,999) + $75 doc fee and sales tax Now I gotta try and get rid of this stupid Harley I bought on a whim last summer to make some room in the garage. Anybody want a 2002 Heritage Softail for kinda cheap? $350!! |
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Quoted: I've only bought two brand new bikes in my life and neither one did the dealer add much other than a doc fee. Recently looking and it seem the new thing is over a grand in bullshit add on fees. Is this common or am I just shopping at the wrong dealers? Here's the quote I got for a new Tenere 700. $9999 for the bike $425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling + tax and title View Quote They've always been there. They're just a lot more "in your face" now than ever before. I think dealers are being busted to net or lower pricing because of internet shopping and this is their attempt to recover some form of profit. As a 22 year veteran of the car business I can tell you that if you are in the finance manager's office and object to the fees, even to the point of walking out on the deal they'll cave and agree to your terms. You can do this while in the negotiation phase. Just keep saying "no" until you get to your # inclusive of all their fees. They'll do it more often than not just to save the deal. |
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They started when they realized people are stupid and pay the price. We all need to stop with this BS and refuse to pay. My bet in a couple months of no sales things will change. Until then your just making things worse for yourself. So stop the bitchen you have nobody to blame but yourself.
Personally I refuse to step foot in a stealership. Unless I need a part that isn't available elsewhere. Even their parts are jacked up. |
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Bought a brand new 21 Husqvarna TX300i for under MSRP with zero setup fees or anything in WV. You just gotta know where to go. And no, this was not a special deal. They do this on everything they sell.
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Dealers get paid a fixed amount to setup or PDI a vehicle, and install factory accessories. On freight the manufacturer charges the same freight as if the dealership was right down the street from the plant, or completely cross country.
Freight fees have always been added on a vehicle price, but dealerships have learned you can add set up fees, paper work fees, then all the detail dept. add ons that are real high profit. What you also never see is give back money that dealerships get for moving a certain product or amount. I was looking at a 20 foot bump pull trailer, was paying cash. One dealer wanted $300 set up fee to bolt on four wheels, and $400 paper work fee to register it and the trailer was $2700 plus tax and license. Told him to get fucked went to another dealer, got a higher quality trailer for $2800 complete out the door. |
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The answer to that is this: They've been adding fees continually.
The solution: "No, I'm not paying those bullshit fees. Give me a price, plus the required sales tax. If you don't want to eat your "fees", then I can buy this bike somewhere else". Its a common thing. Air BnB for example. You find a $100 a night place to rent, but after a booking fee, a cleaning fee, a reservation fee, and a bend you over the sofa and drill you fee, its suddenly $212 a night. The answer?: Go somewhere else |
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The "fees" are not exclusive to just new bikes...even used bikes at some stealerships...I recently upgraded my pit bike from a Ruckus to the Grom....the local stealership (DFW Honda) wanted to even screw me good on a used one! So, below is a list of offers and OTD pricing on new and used Groms. They are peculiar little creatures and, like the Ruckus, tend to hold their values pretty good. So, guess which one I went with? And notice the used 2015 pricing OTD vs the used 2020 pricing OTD!! I asked the DFW Honda sales critter if he was actually series about all those fees "Yes, very much" LOL!! I told him "good luck with that!" He kept calling for the next few days LOL
Progressive Powersports of Arlington 2020 Grom – Orange MSRP$3,399.00 Destination+ $650.00 Prep/Assembly+ $795.00 Progressive Powersports of Arlington Savings- $169.95 Progressive Powersports of Arlington Unit Price$4,674.05 Bend over OTD price: $4,799.05 DFW Honda 2020 Grom – Orange MSRP $3,399 - listed price Destination $380 Prep $440 Doc Fee $150 + tax and other fees (I didn’t get this in writing) Bend Over Pricing OTD: $4,600 DFW Honda Used 2015 Grom - Black (bone stock, all OEM) $2,799 - listed price <——sounds great, RIGHT???? $235 recondition fee VIT fee $150 Doc Fee $150 + tax and other fees (I didn’t get this in writing) Bend over OTD price: $3,800 <----for a USED 2015 bike??? Denton Cycle Center 2020 Grom – Orange MSRP $3,399 (they had fees but they were MUCH lower) Out the Door $4,167.44 Denton Cycle Center 2020 Grom – Green – USED w/ mods (handlebar & exhaust, 238 miles) Listed price $3,299 VIT fee $6.28 Doc Fee $125 Vehicle Inspection $18.95 License $86.25 Tax $206.19 Out the Door $3,741.67 <——notice that this price is LESS than the 2015 Grom!! Yep, went with the used 2020 Green Gromlin, love it!! Fun little bike! |
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Quoted: The "fees" are not exclusive to just new bikes...even used bikes at some stealerships...I recently upgraded my pit bike from a Ruckus to the Grom....the local stealership (DFW Honda) wanted to even screw me good on a used one! So, below is a list of offers and OTD pricing on new and used Groms. They are peculiar little creatures and, like the Ruckus, tend to hold their values pretty good. So, guess which one I went with? And notice the used 2015 pricing OTD vs the used 2020 pricing OTD!! I asked the DFW Honda sales critter if he was actually series about all those fees "Yes, very much" LOL!! I told him "good luck with that!" He kept calling for the next few days LOL Progressive Powersports of Arlington 2020 Grom – Orange MSRP$3,399.00 Destination+ $650.00 Prep/Assembly+ $795.00 Progressive Powersports of Arlington Savings- $169.95 Progressive Powersports of Arlington Unit Price$4,674.05 Bend over OTD price: $4,799.05 DFW Honda 2020 Grom – Orange MSRP $3,399 - listed price Destination $380 Prep $440 Doc Fee $150 + tax and other fees (I didn’t get this in writing) Bend Over Pricing OTD: $4,600 DFW Honda Used 2015 Grom - Black (bone stock, all OEM) $2,799 - listed price <——sounds great, RIGHT???? $235 recondition fee VIT fee $150 Doc Fee $150 + tax and other fees (I didn’t get this in writing) Bend over OTD price: $3,800 <----for a USED 2015 bike??? Denton Cycle Center 2020 Grom – Orange MSRP $3,399 (they had fees but they were MUCH lower) Out the Door $4,167.44 Denton Cycle Center 2020 Grom – Green – USED w/ mods (handlebar & exhaust, 238 miles) Listed price $3,299 VIT fee $6.28 Doc Fee $125 Vehicle Inspection $18.95 License $86.25 Tax $206.19 Out the Door $3,741.67 <——notice that this price is LESS than the 2015 Grom!! Yep, went with the used 2020 Green Gromlin, love it!! Fun little bike! View Quote JFC almost 5 grand for a grom? Do they actually sell at that price? I bought my 2017 z125 new for $2500 + $200 BS fees. |
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Quoted: JFC almost 5 grand for a grom? Do they actually sell at that price? I bought my 2017 z125 new for $2500 + $200 BS fees. View Quote I guess if folks are too lazy to do the research and drive just a bit farther...the DFW Honda guy would *not* negotiate at all...he's was a very smug prick...he started getting angry with me, it was actually kind of funny, yet said...being in sales I just started toying with him... |
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Quoted: I guess if folks are too lazy to do the research and drive just a bit farther...the DFW Honda guy would *not* negotiate at all...he's was a very smug prick...he started getting angry with me, it was actually kind of funny, yet said...being in sales I just started toying with him... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: JFC almost 5 grand for a grom? Do they actually sell at that price? I bought my 2017 z125 new for $2500 + $200 BS fees. I guess if folks are too lazy to do the research and drive just a bit farther...the DFW Honda guy would *not* negotiate at all...he's was a very smug prick...he started getting angry with me, it was actually kind of funny, yet said...being in sales I just started toying with him... It's been a weird year in the power sports business, but I think they've been hitting the bottle to hard |
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Quoted: I've only bought two brand new bikes in my life and neither one did the dealer add much other than a doc fee. Recently looking and it seem the new thing is over a grand in bullshit add on fees. Is this common or am I just shopping at the wrong dealers? Here's the quote I got for a new Tenere 700. $9999 for the bike $425 freight $300 setup $349 dealer handling + tax and title View Quote I paid MSRP +~500$ in B.S. They're fantastic bikes! Attached File |
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Quoted: I paid MSRP +~500$ in B.S. They're fantastic bikes! https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/486333/tenere2_jpg-1756402.JPG View Quote Talked to the dealer two days ago and it might be here next month. |
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