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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:06:35 PM EDT
[#1]
If he isn't in cuffs he's still a threat and I'm not going to fuck around restraining him before I render aid.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:09:24 PM EDT
[#2]
Well, it doesn't have to be put on that tight.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:12:22 PM EDT
[#3]
I’d have no inclination to assist.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:12:47 PM EDT
[#4]
No. I'm too busy stripping and making sure my gun is fully disassembled before LEO arrives and shoots me too.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:13:58 PM EDT
[#5]
The emergency medical treatment of someone who just committed a violent act on me or mine is none of my concern.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:14:04 PM EDT
[#6]
Not a chance.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:14:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Chest compressions. Lots and lots of chest compressions.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:14:53 PM EDT
[#8]
Toss it to him. You provide him with first aid. That might help get down from murder to man slaughter (if it is not a 100% clean case)
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:16:07 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
In before in before poll. Exact situation doesn't matter. You shot/stabbed/other someone trying to attack/rob you/someone else. He is 100% out of the fight, the area is clear, no other attackers (or if there are they dead), no worries of further attack, but he is not dead yet. You have an IFAK, and no one else is injured. Let's say it'd be your $40 chest seals, $40 of hemostatic gauze, $10 NPA and $35 TQ - you shot this guy real good, because of course GD are all masters - but he's not yet dead. LEO/EMS is en route, but you don't know if he'll survive until then or not. 50/50 crapshoot. Do you expend your IFAK on a felon that just attacked you or someone else, or do you wait and see what happens? |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:16:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Your IFAK is for you, when you need it. Aid bags are for others. If one is not available, you can use belts as TQ's, and plastic wrappings with tape as chest seals. Don't use your IFAK for others unless it is genuinely your only option to save a life.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:18:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The emergency medical treatment of someone who just committed a violent act on me or mine is none of my concern. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:20:45 PM EDT
[#12]
Yes
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:21:48 PM EDT
[#13]
The best self defense stories have only one side.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:22:06 PM EDT
[#14]
No. You attack me and/or mine, you get what you asked for... Laws of Nature.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:24:56 PM EDT
[#15]
Nope. My response to an attack will in all likelihood make such attempted aid completely useless.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:26:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Scene safety.
It would have to be an extraordinary circumstance. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:27:52 PM EDT
[#17]
If I had reason to believe that he was no longer capable of being a threat and that there were no other threats present, I would. It would go a long way towards my defense should that become a concern.
However, the criteria for me to determine that no other threat from him of anyone else would be extremely difficult to meet. ETA: No I wouldn't. I keep my EMT bag in my truck outside. I'm not leaving my family unattended to get it. I am not touching a person that just attacked and who is leaking fluids without my BSI. I'm not getting Herpebolaids from some thug. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:27:59 PM EDT
[#18]
If he wanted an IFAK, he should have brought his own.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:28:37 PM EDT
[#19]
Absolutely I would. It might be the piece of evidence that keeps my ass out of jail.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:28:55 PM EDT
[#20]
Open myself up to even more civil litigation?
Fuck no. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:29:09 PM EDT
[#21]
It is in my nature to render such aid.
I was strongly advised at both Gunsite and Frontsight to do no such thing. I guess, if it ever happens, I will follow that advice, and not render such aid. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:29:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Since I have no idea what IFAK is I would say the odds are plenty damn slim for me.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:30:36 PM EDT
[#23]
I would only provide aid if I had someone to cover me. On my own, no way. 911 dispatcher will send help.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:30:37 PM EDT
[#24]
What's an "IFAK"??? Why would a normal person have some/it/one???
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:32:15 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's an "IFAK"??? Why would a normal person have some/it/one??? |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:33:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's an "IFAK"??? Why would a normal person have some/it/one??? The real question is why a normal person WOULDN'T have one. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:33:38 PM EDT
[#27]
I would use my IFAK and hit him with it until he stops moving
 it saves lives
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:34:58 PM EDT
[#28]
If he/she is 100% out of the fight, he/she is dead.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:35:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Without hesitation. Yes.
Don't need any reason other than he is a human being. If you save him after what he did to you - imagine the example you would set to him and to others. It could turn him around. But would do it even it I didn't think it would. I absolutely believe in the right to defend myself. I also believe in mercy for the helpless. YMMV 
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:35:19 PM EDT
[#30]
I'm not a medical professional. It's up to him/her to stay woke.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:36:23 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
In before in before poll. Exact situation doesn't matter. You shot/stabbed/other someone trying to attack/rob you/someone else. He is 100% out of the fight, the area is clear, no other attackers (or if there are they dead), no worries of further attack, but he is not dead yet. You have an IFAK, and no one else is injured. Let's say it'd be your $40 chest seals, $40 of hemostatic gauze, $10 NPA and $35 TQ - you shot this guy real good, because of course GD are all masters - but he's not yet dead. LEO/EMS is en route, but you don't know if he'll survive until then or not. 50/50 crapshoot. Do you expend your IFAK on a felon that just attacked you or someone else, or do you wait and see what happens? I just let EMT/Fire handle the rescue work. I don't want to disturb the crime scene. 
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:37:24 PM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:37:25 PM EDT
[#33]
I do not have the IFAK at this time.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:37:58 PM EDT
[#34]
It's a situation most have never been in. I don't know what I'd do.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:39:51 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted:
you shot this guy real good, because of course GD are all masters - but he's not yet dead. I'll let the dispatcher know I'm holding the subject at gunpoint until the police arrive. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:41:05 PM EDT
[#36]
Emt’s arw bound to render aid when needed... so it’s a gray area. I agree with the above of following the first step on every test we ever took:
BSI and is the scene safe? No bsi, no confirmed scene safety, no aid rendered. That and I’d prefer to just beat the fuck out of a guy, steal his shit so he knows what it feels like, and go back home. I might be trained for all kinds of stuff, but I’m no saint. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:42:20 PM EDT
[#37]
I do not carry an IFAK, nor do I carry PPE for all the blood borne pathogens they may have
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:42:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Without hesitation. Yes. Don't need any reason other than he is a human being. If you save him after what he did to you - imagine the example you would set to him and to others. It could turn him around. But would do it even it I didn't think it would. I absolutely believe in the right to defend myself. I also believe in mercy for the helpless. YMMV If he isn’t in cuffs I’m not touching him. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:45:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Do you want Hep c because that’s how you get Hep c
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:45:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Sounds like how you get a yuuuuge civil suit
Now you “owe” the scumbag, or his disgusting family, money because you shot him, plus more because you medical aid wasn’t somehow good enough. Or knowing my luck he has just enough strength to swing a blade into my side, or he spits his aids infested blood into my face to spite me Nope nope nope. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:46:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Cops, who have been called out to a home invasion / shooting / whatever, arrive on scene with one person bent over and fucking with a bloody body. Sounds like a high potential for a misunderstanding of the situation and getting yourself ventilated.
I do not plan to be fucking with a bloody body when the cops arrive. Mr. Shithead can just wait for the professionals to show up. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:47:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was strongly advised at both Gunsite and Frontsight to do no such thing. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:48:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If he wanted an IFAK, he should have brought his own. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:48:36 PM EDT
[#44]
With all this cuff talk, how many here keep some type of cuff (tuff ties for example) on their body when carrying or in their ifak?
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:49:29 PM EDT
[#45]
And get sued by him for improper first aid? Pass. No duty, no care.
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:50:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Open myself up to even more civil litigation? Fuck no. And besides, do you really want to be on or nearly on top of the wounded person when the police show up guns drawn??? |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:50:42 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Without hesitation. Yes. Don't need any reason other than he is a human being. If you save him after what he did to you - imagine the example you would set to him and to others. It could turn him around. But would do it even it I didn't think it would. I absolutely believe in the right to defend myself. I also believe in mercy for the helpless. YMMV I wouldn't touch him. Who knows what weird blood-borne diseases he has? |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:50:49 PM EDT
[#48]
I'm not a "trained medical professional".
"I'm sorry I didn't render first aid counselor, I was afraid I would do further damage to the piece of shit criminal." |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:51:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like how you get a yuuuuge civil suit Now you “owe” the scumbag, or his disgusting family, money because you shot him, plus more because you medical aid wasn’t somehow good enough. Or knowing my luck he has just enough strength to swing a blade into my side, or he spits his aids infested blood into my face to spite me Nope nope nope. Even in an attack situation, Good Samaritan Laws are in effect. If you are operating within your scope of practice (the level to which you are trained) and you are not being compensated financially for rendering the aid (not on duty as a job for medical care at that moment,) you are protected from liability. In most states, GSLs are pretty iron-clad. No where in any GSL that I've ever read has an exclusion for it the first responder was the victim of the person being treated. |
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Posted: 12/15/2018 3:52:09 PM EDT
[#50]
No. You don't actually know that the situation is safe, for one. If you want a realistic and valuable answer, you can't artificially create "well, it's a scenario where the riskiest aspect isn't there."
Furthermore, who knows how he'll react when you approach even if he doesn't have any friends hanging around. I don't know what kind of diseases he's carrying (people who commit crimes are also people who engage in other risky behavior), and handling potentially infected people, even with gloves on, is outside my lane. IFAKs/aid bags are for myself and for people I know. |
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