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Posted: 2/2/2023 3:42:59 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Zelensky is now demanding that we nuke Russia, and then ask Russia to not send nukes in response....
And still people here think it is our responsibility to get involved in this nonsense. It's not our fight. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 3:50:27 PM EDT
[#2]
Is he calling for preemptive strikes to remove Russia's nuclear capability? Is that one of those deep fakes?
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:07:52 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Name a single time isolationism has worked The Sentinelese living on North Sentinal Island  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:14:13 PM EDT
[#4]
The Military Industrial complex needs a war or they do not get paid or get to make new toys to kill and blow shit up. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:15:22 PM EDT
[#5]
So Brazil invited the Iranian navy to come visit them and no one gives a shit. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:17:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is he calling for preemptive strikes to remove Russia's nuclear capability? Is that one of those deep fakes? It's not a deep fake; it's just a case of an ambiguous translation being presented with misleading context in order to deceive the viewer about what he's saying. He calls for preemptive 'strikes' of the same sort that he called for before the invasion in order to prevent the use of nuclear weapons. Did he call for us to nuke Russia prior to the invasion? No, he called for sanctions. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:26:30 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Sentinelese living on North Sentinal Island /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/6578B03F-C6AB-44D2-9829-8851B7318BE5-478.gif Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Name a single time isolationism has worked The Sentinelese living on North Sentinal Island /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/6578B03F-C6AB-44D2-9829-8851B7318BE5-478.gif What an excellent endorsement for isolationism! |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:28:40 PM EDT
[#8]
Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it.
I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:37:16 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's not our fight, shouldn't be our proxy war. This path just leads us to boots on the ground. We aren't the world police nor are we the worlds military. I bet if you look it up, the U.S. is supplying Ukraine more than any other country. I don't care if its older supplies. It's never going to be enough and our "leadership" will never put their foot down. But lets blindly follow the asshole leader of Ukraine who plays the piano with his dick. I agree, it's not our fight. I would not support US boots on the ground in Ukraine. We are not shedding US blood in Ukraine. We are only sending equipment and supplies while Ukraine does the heavy lifting. Supplying a smaller democracy with a VERY small amount of direct military aid to help them fend of a totalitarian aggressor, which happens to be our second largest adversary....that's a great deal for us. I think your geopolitical view is extremely short-sighted. The US cannot afford to be isolationists. We are not Switzerland. We benefit way too much from being at the center of the world order and there is a price that goes along with our position. A weakened and isolated Russia is a very good thing for us and it serves our best interest to continue sending more aid until Russia is bled white and their demographics are cratering. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:39:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 4:45:20 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? We are sending plenty of money too in various financial schemes. As of 4 months ago it was 15 billion out of 48 billion ( at the time). That is over 30%. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 5:53:12 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin is literally embroiled in an invasion of mainland Europe... JFC... Putin has also stated he wants to take Poland back, leaked plans of invading Moldova, via Transnistria, and on and on. I wonder if this is how bad the isolationists were in 1939. 'NO HELP! WE CANT BE SEEN AS HELPING GERMANY AND RUSSIAS ENEMY!' Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Get both. It's like spending $10 today to save $100 tomorrow. That's the beauty of proxy wars. I don't believe that. Russia hasn't been a threat to us since the end of the Cold War. I would even argue that they weren't a credible threat during the Cold War. The guy is delusional... Putin does NOT want to use Ukraine to like invade mainland Europe LOL... do not engage with the guy in debate... these type of guys are useless... Not sure who you are referencing? But I've never said they would invade mainland Europe. That's not even something I consider plausible. Putin is literally embroiled in an invasion of mainland Europe... JFC... Putin has also stated he wants to take Poland back, leaked plans of invading Moldova, via Transnistria, and on and on. I wonder if this is how bad the isolationists were in 1939. 'NO HELP! WE CANT BE SEEN AS HELPING GERMANY AND RUSSIAS ENEMY!' Except if you read the thread I’m not an “isolationist”. I’ve been arguing just the opposite in this thread. But that hugely important fact aside, you’re parsing words. Seems obvious given the context I wouldn’t be referencing the post Soviet states. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:13:46 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So Brazil invited the Iranian navy to come visit them and no one gives a shit.  Attached FileNo discussion about anything critical of UKR or any other information about another country is allowed on ARFCOM.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:19:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A weakened and isolated Russia is a very good thing for us and it serves our best interest to continue sending more aid until Russia is bled white and their demographics are cratering. Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" will be a functional extension of China? Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" likely still maintain nuclear weapons and other offensive capability? I'd argue that a Russian victory is a terrible and a catastrophic Russian defeat little better for US interests. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:38:51 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure who you are referencing? But I’ve never said they would invade mainland Europe. That’s not even something I consider plausible. Where is Ukraine located? |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:45:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin is not going to fucking invade Poland, Poland would fuck his shit up. What is dumb is fighting the Russians by proxy in Ukraine and pushing the world toward nuclear war to "prevent" a theoretical Russian invasion of NATO countries that will NEVER happen in a million years. This doesn't make any sense. So if Russia loses in Ukraine, its Nuclear War. But if Russia loses in Poland... that's okay? Last January was only a year ago and the entire News and "Expert" opinions where Russia would never invade Ukraine, it was a bluff to get some concessions. Then it was "Ukraine will not last a week".. and yet here we are. Also, for the argument of "If Trump was here". Trump would fucking what? Why would Puntin not invade if Trump was here? Cause... he's afraid Trump would do something? Biden is limp wristing it and your howling. Would you be cheering if Trump sent A10's in rolling thunder or something? |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:54:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prime example of Russian disinformation. How can you call yourself a Conservative if you support anything the left supports? Replace Soros with FJB. Same tactic applies. Fact is, Conservatives don’t have to be against everything that Liberals are for. We can find common ground. Helping a neighboring democracy stand up to the Soviet Union is a great place to find common ground. The Soviet Union has been gone since 1991 ?? |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:58:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Soviet Union has been gone since 1991 In name only. Russia just rebranded. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:58:50 PM EDT
[#19]
The Ukrainian soldiers are fighting for the same reasons the Confederate soldiers were fighting- because they are being invaded. I’m surprised so-called conservatives can’t appreciate this. Then again, Lincoln was a Republican.
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Posted: 2/2/2023 6:59:57 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are sending plenty of money too in various financial schemes. As of 4 months ago it was 15 billion out of 48 billion ( at the time). That is over 30%. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? We are sending plenty of money too in various financial schemes. As of 4 months ago it was 15 billion out of 48 billion ( at the time). That is over 30%. I anxiously await a source citation. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:00:38 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is Ukraine located? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not sure who you are referencing? But I’ve never said they would invade mainland Europe. That’s not even something I consider plausible. Where is Ukraine located? I forgot how explicitly everything must be worded on here. My bad. Never assume someone will read for context 
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:02:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Soviet Union has been gone since 1991 ?? They have not figured that out. I always laugh when the pro Ukraine camp paints Ukraine as this super democratic and freedom loving country while ignoring the fact that they are in the top 10 of the most corrupt nations on Earth. They can seemingly only finger paint with black and white. This is not a Hollywood movie like Red Dawn. The military industrial complex, neo-cons/neo-liberals and western globalist trash want the money and power. Both sides want a puppet state and neither give a shit about you or me. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:03:03 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" will be a functional extension of China? Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" likely still maintain nuclear weapons and other offensive capability? I'd argue that a Russian victory is a terrible and a catastrophic Russian defeat little better for US interests. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A weakened and isolated Russia is a very good thing for us and it serves our best interest to continue sending more aid until Russia is bled white and their demographics are cratering. Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" will be a functional extension of China? Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" likely still maintain nuclear weapons and other offensive capability? I'd argue that a Russian victory is a terrible and a catastrophic Russian defeat little better for US interests. The nukes didn’t fly after the collapse of the Soviet Empire. It’s a path that we may have to navigate again. Russia being a weakened Chinese vassal state with tensions and animosity sounds better than being a meaningful strategic partner. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:04:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Soviet Union has been gone since 1991 ?? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Prime example of Russian disinformation. How can you call yourself a Conservative if you support anything the left supports? Replace Soros with FJB. Same tactic applies. Fact is, Conservatives don’t have to be against everything that Liberals are for. We can find common ground. Helping a neighboring democracy stand up to the Soviet Union is a great place to find common ground. The Soviet Union has been gone since 1991 ?? Have you seen Russian state TV lately? The USSR is alive and well in the hearts of Russians. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:04:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Maybe we should as a nation just preemptively nuke Russia and Ukraine at the same time! Then we won't have to argue about it anymore!
 Problem solved! Both corrupt commie shitlords dead!  |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:10:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine became a key power base for the Deep State. One of the more serious cases of Ukraine acting as a proxy for the Deep State was in regards to the Deep State biolabs placed in Ukraine. These were first set up by a pact promoted by Senators Lugar and Obama in 2005. Ukraine Bioweapons Labs These US funded Ukraine biolabs were of an extremely sensitive nature. It was the exposure of this Deep State initiative by Trump that greatly concerned Biden, Obama's point man for Ukraine. Directly after Trump's election, Biden called Poroshenko. Biden Covering Biolab Deep State Funding The PrivatBank that Biden was calling on Poroshenko to close was used as a main conduit for the Biden Crime Family for Ukraine ventures money laundering and was a conduit for funding of the biolabs. PrivatBank was owned by oligarch Kolomoyskyi Almost simultaneous with the recent raid on Biden's residence in Rehoboth Delaware, Kolomoyskyi was raided in Ukraine. The Deep State sees the imminent fall of the Biden Crime Family and wants to thoroughly sanitize and whitewash all of Biden's records. As well, the Deep State wants to cover their tracks in Ukraine as the Russians are intent on exposing all aspects of the Ukraine biolabs. Finally, there remains a potential bombshell which the Deep State is terrified of being revealed in the upcoming Washington Purge Trials, the links between the Ukraine biolabs and C19 gain of function research. And this will be ignored.. muh testing obsolete weapons . That we are having to replace. Orcs ! |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:12:50 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We have sent them so many 155mm arty rounds that it's going to take 5-8 years to catch up, ONCE we quit sending them!!!! We are decapitating our own logistics tail. This..... |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:13:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" will be a functional extension of China? Will a "weakened and isolated Russia" likely still maintain nuclear weapons and other offensive capability? I'd argue that a Russian victory is a terrible and a catastrophic Russian defeat little better for US interests. Stop with all the rational thinking. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:14:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are 1000's of people, some innocent, being murdered in Mexico... you want to do a proxy there too? I would like to see the cartels declared to be terrorist organizations and militarization of the border. Mexico's corruption makes the old 10% for the big guy Russian oil corruption look like a lemonade stand. If Mexico was even 90% as good as Ukraine they should get whatever they need. Also, seeing as China is dumping fentanyl in the US via Mexican cartels I'd say those assholes deserve a come to Jesus moment via 2000lb JDAM |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:23:31 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And this will be ignored.. muh testing obsolete weapons . That we are having to replace. Orcs ! |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:28:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Ukraine bros…..If it kills just 1 orc.
While further bankrupting this nation. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 7:33:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're a riot. Still sticking to the "It's just $100 billion, man. It's cheap!" narrative, while ignoring the very core of what I posted. Once again, because I'm supposedly the one who's dense and can't math, it's not about the cost of the weapons. It's about the reconstruction costs of Ukraine. Even if the conflict ended right now at this moment, it's going to cost us a trillion dollars. At least. If you believe in the conflict, just be honest about the costs. It's simple and I can accept a good argument as long as it's in good faith. Odd too that you insist on portraying me as angry. I wish things were different, and I'll take a small amount of time of my day to sit here and bicker on the internet, but I'm not angry. Life's too short to be angry at things I can't control. If you genuinely can't get your head around it, don't worry. You're not alone. I'm sure we agree on most everything else. We are here, after all. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:13:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would like to see the cartels declared to be terrorist organizations and militarization of the border. Mexico's corruption makes the old 10% for the big guy Russian oil corruption look like a lemonade stand. If Mexico was even 90% as good as Ukraine they should get whatever they need. Also, seeing as China is dumping fentanyl in the US via Mexican cartels I'd say those assholes deserve a come to Jesus moment via 2000lb JDAM Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: There are 1000's of people, some innocent, being murdered in Mexico... you want to do a proxy there too? I would like to see the cartels declared to be terrorist organizations and militarization of the border. Mexico's corruption makes the old 10% for the big guy Russian oil corruption look like a lemonade stand. If Mexico was even 90% as good as Ukraine they should get whatever they need. Also, seeing as China is dumping fentanyl in the US via Mexican cartels I'd say those assholes deserve a come to Jesus moment via 2000lb JDAM Militarization of the border sounds great to me. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:41:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its about the war not reconstruction as so many including you have stated. Reconstruction will be an issue with or without US involvement. Without meaning China owns that country and we're back to square one. Hopefully the US finds a way to sufficiently involved to keep Chinese influence to a minimum without handing over a trillion dollars (loans to Ukr and preferential treatment of US contractors would be worth while) but seeing as the war isnt over and it really has no bearing on the argument about support for helping Ukraines war effort we'll go back to that. That 100 billion isnt even half cash; its everything from old weapon systems being given to UKR to recon flights. Perhaps you should be honest about it and not try to move the goal posts. Move the goal posts by being realistic about how the post-war scenario will almost certainly play out? So by your estimation we will need to be extra generous to keep the Chinese from moving in and "taking our lucrative reconstruction deals away"? Let's outbid them on the contracts and build it all out of gold! The Ukrainians are sure to be very grateful. The war will pay for itself in a few months!  Let China rebuild Ukraine then. Pushing this conflict was always a stupid move for us. Now we've successfully driven Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, and who knows who else into an alliance. The Saudis are already playing us against one another. We'll be lucky to still have the dollar be the reserve currency by the end of this. The sad part is that so many patriotic, generous, and kind-hearted Americans were taken in by this scam. It's like a placebo conflict for the remnants of what made our country what it is. Blindly supporting Ukraine is a very attractive "next best thing" because we are helpless to correct the horrors occurring here at home. We're desperate to "do something" and "make a difference", and Russia as an existential threat enjoys an undeniable nostalgic prominence in the psyche of our nation. Proxy support of this war is a way to elicit grand emotions of victory, justice, and revenge among the many who are devastated that they're politically impotent to save the United States from the enemies actively destroying it from within. It's a damn tragedy. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:47:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Failed starting premise. Conservatives don’t oppose it. Have to give them credit. They keep trying with the narrative building don’t they … lmao. There is a concerted effort to turn this into a domestic political dogfight by certain political operatives. Same as it ever was. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:53:43 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have not figured that out. I always laugh when the pro Ukraine camp paints Ukraine as this super democratic and freedom loving country while ignoring the fact that they are in the top 10 of the most corrupt nations on Earth. They can seemingly only finger paint with black and white. This is not a Hollywood movie like Red Dawn. The military industrial complex, neo-cons/neo-liberals and western globalist trash want the money and power. Both sides want a puppet state and neither give a shit about you or me.
    There's been a lot of this. But you'd have to be actually looking for real news to know this. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:54:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? Well said, it’s striking how little research people do into how military aid works in these scenarios. While there is money used in some of them, this is for the most part, not one of those. The majority of the dollar amount being floated by the media is not currency but hardware. Most of this hardware has an expiration date as well. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:58:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They have not figured that out. I always laugh when the pro Ukraine camp paints Ukraine as this super democratic and freedom loving country while ignoring the fact that they are in the top 10 of the most corrupt nations on Earth. They can seemingly only finger paint with black and white. This is not a Hollywood movie like Red Dawn. The military industrial complex, neo-cons/neo-liberals and western globalist trash want the money and power. Both sides want a puppet state and neither give a shit about you or me. They aren’t even close to the most corrupt. Certainly can be better, but hyperbole makes you look a fool  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 8:58:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well said, it’s striking how little research people do into how military aid works in these scenarios. While there is money used in some of them, this is not one of those. The dollar amount being floated by the media is not currency but hardware. Most of this hardware has an expiration date as well. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? Well said, it’s striking how little research people do into how military aid works in these scenarios. While there is money used in some of them, this is not one of those. The dollar amount being floated by the media is not currency but hardware. Most of this hardware has an expiration date as well. The issue is the munitions being transferred, specifically the PGMs and Arty ammo most of it suppose to be in our magazines for the next 30 years. Now we either go without them or buy them at 2x-3x the post inflation price |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:03:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue is the munitions being transferred, specifically the PGMs and Arty ammo most of it suppose to be in our magazines for the next 30 years. Now we either go without them or buy them at 2x-3x the post inflation price |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:04:45 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: America should not be involved. Let the commies fight the commies. And we worry about fixing our own shit. You are not wrong. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:05:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Taiwan use 155s? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The issue is the munitions being transferred, specifically the PGMs and Arty ammo most of it suppose to be in our magazines for the next 30 years. Now we either go without them or buy them at 2x-3x the post inflation price Yes |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:09:04 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRBGlHQWQAEw90M?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRBGlHRXEAA3ri8?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRBHff8WYAABfDR?format=jpg&name=large https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQSm_KGXwAQUNrs?format=jpg&name=large There's been a lot of this. But you'd have to be actually looking for real news to know this. Talk about a clown world comment mate. Are you seriously using that to justify your opinion that Russia = Soviet Union? For example: I guess the Russian Army/DPR is trying to be like the pre-Communist Tsarist Imperial Army at the same time too huh?     The US army must be a bunch of confederate lovers too with their US military bases named after confederate generals and numerous sightings of confederate flags in US wars. Thank Goodness our wonderful democratics are renaming those bases and removing history.   It definitely could not be used as a sense of pride/patriotism of the military accomplishments of the past. Neo-Cons always looking for windmills. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:10:55 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue is the munitions being transferred, specifically the PGMs and Arty ammo most of it suppose to be in our magazines for the next 30 years. Now we either go without them or buy them at 2x-3x the post inflation price Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? Well said, it’s striking how little research people do into how military aid works in these scenarios. While there is money used in some of them, this is not one of those. The dollar amount being floated by the media is not currency but hardware. Most of this hardware has an expiration date as well. The issue is the munitions being transferred, specifically the PGMs and Arty ammo most of it suppose to be in our magazines for the next 30 years. Now we either go without them or buy them at 2x-3x the post inflation price Very little of what is being supplied is in the envelope of our advanced weaponry, and literally none of it is our most advanced. 30 years from now it will be obsolete. Not to mention that every item being supplied was developed for the purpose of fighting the very foe it is now being used on. I am conservative, I am also a Trump voter x2. I understand this. I also have some extra time on the topic since prior to 2012. Well before it was politicized, and I have the training to separate that anyways. I get the concerns, I want oversight. But this is not a left versus right wing topic. And it really shouldn’t be portrayed as such. Anyone steering it that way is playing you. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:13:21 PM EDT
[#45]
I don’t oppose the war in Ukraine, that’s a simplistic view.
I oppose mindless spending with no oversight and no articulated strategy. What exactly are we trying to accomplish? How will we know when we’ve set the desired conditions? What do we get for our billions in aid? How are we going to limit our involvement? What’s the risk to our own military readiness? The brilliant minds at the Pentagon don’t have the strongest track record, so “trust me, we got this” isn’t confidence inspiring. I’d like to hear what the plan is, if there is one. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:16:17 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Very little of what is being supplied is in the envelope of our advanced weaponry, and literally none of it is our most advanced. 30 years from now it will be obsolete. Not to mention that every item being supplied was developed for the purpose of fighting the very foe it is now being used on. I am conservative, I am also a Trump voter x2. I understand this. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone opposed to money laundering opposes it. I work with a Ukranian company. The guys fighting are asking people for donations of money so they can buy drones from best buy and personal cars to transport soldiers from the fighting. 100% money laundering scheme. How do you money launder military equipment? You realize that we are not sending them pallets of cash, right? Where are all of those arms shipments being diverted? Well said, it’s striking how little research people do into how military aid works in these scenarios. While there is money used in some of them, this is not one of those. The dollar amount being floated by the media is not currency but hardware. Most of this hardware has an expiration date as well. The issue is the munitions being transferred, specifically the PGMs and Arty ammo most of it suppose to be in our magazines for the next 30 years. Now we either go without them or buy them at 2x-3x the post inflation price Very little of what is being supplied is in the envelope of our advanced weaponry, and literally none of it is our most advanced. 30 years from now it will be obsolete. Not to mention that every item being supplied was developed for the purpose of fighting the very foe it is now being used on. I am conservative, I am also a Trump voter x2. I understand this. I use to own some of those weapons requirements on my last tour at the Pentagon, that is patently false GMLRS, Excal and JAVs were suppose to be the inventory for decades, the HARMs and Stingers are suppose to be replaced in the future, but are still be there for another decade. The 155s are "wooden rounds" they last 50 years and we transferred M795 which started production in 2007, and we never filled the magazines because of the cost. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:18:44 PM EDT
[#47]
It would be nice if we could just all agree, that ALL governments are just a bunch of shitbags, doing shitbag things to everyone.
I don't care about Ukraine. I don't care about Muh Russia. I am tired of spending money fighting forever wars, in which the elite's send the plebes to die. it's all money laundering, has been for almost every war ever.
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:21:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes If Taiwan is counting on us to supply 155s, hopefully arrangements are being made. Isn't SK coming online as a big supplier of 155 |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:23:51 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can see the concern in a China conflict about a shortage of A2A, A2S, and air defense munitions from what the US would use. If we actually got to the point we were short 155s in an engagement with China, I'd be asking wtf happened to get us into an arty dual with China. If Taiwan is counting on us to supply 155s, hopefully arrangements are being made. Isn't SK coming online as a big supplier of 155 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes If Taiwan is counting on us to supply 155s, hopefully arrangements are being made. Isn't SK coming online as a big supplier of 155 You assuming a fight that never goes to land, on many of the islands of the SCS or we don’t have attack to seize/destroy facilities outside the 1st-2nd Island Chain. |
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Posted: 2/2/2023 9:25:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are 1000's of people, some innocent, being murdered in Mexico... you want to do a proxy there too? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I oppose it because Democrats, their foreign policy advisors and their hedge fund masters got Ukraine into it. I'd like to see relief for the Ukrainians but I'm not willing to let our shitheels off the hook or let them deflect from the simple fact they caused this going back to the 90's. All Ukraine is to the Western elite and politicians is one big money washing operation... Are you trying to say that they deserve to be slaughtered because of a RUSSIAN PUPPET govt almost a decade ago? There are 1000's of people, some innocent, being murdered in Mexico... you want to do a proxy there too? The Ukrainians stopped the Russian VDV outside Kiev, admittedly with western intelligence, but they did it themselves. That's a wholly different business than the random genocide/asshole shit that happens in South America/Africa/whatever. Putin can end this any day he wants. He probably could even keep Crimea if he walked away from the rest of it voluntarily. I still suspect that if Biden came out as anti-trans/gay, there's 10% of the male population that would suck a dick just to spite him. |
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