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Posted: 2/21/2021 8:30:18 AM EST
I recently bought a new Toyota Tundra.  I overheard a fellow say, "Why is there a doc fee on a used truck?"  

I knew exactly what he meant.  He would have probably asked the same question if he were buying a new F150.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:32:53 AM EST
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:34:45 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:36:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit
View Quote



Legit or not, people are dumb.  Doc fee or dock fee?
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:38:40 AM EST
In Texas they set a maximum Document Fee of $150.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:44:20 AM EST
The only number that really matters is the final price out the door.  You shop around until you find the best one.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:47:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit
View Quote



Wrong.

Doc Fees are legit, they vary from state to state. Some states have a minimum and a maximum.  They are the fee's associated with title processing and paperwork. Mine are 100.00. Most dealers charge 150-250. Sadly some dealers use it as a profit center and charge upwards of $500.00.  Dealers don't just go down to the DMV and wait in line like a normal person. They have a separate person that handles their titling. Sometimes there are a dozen or more titles. The customers at the DMV would not be happy waiting for a dozen titles or more to get processed.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:48:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 8:49:10 AM EST by FS7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By oxford411:
The only number that really matters is the final price out the door.  You shop around until you find the best one.
View Quote


This. I don't understand why people get upset over certain fees. Whether you're paying cash or financing you have a final dollar amount. If that meets my requirements I don't care one bit how the dealer breaks it down.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:49:14 AM EST
That is why I always ask for the total amount, before buying.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:50:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 2:37:30 PM EST by Tweek218]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit
View Quote


There was a really good video posted a while ago on here. From a former salesman. Do you or anyone else remember which one that was by any chance?

ETA: Found it.

Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:51:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By trails-end:
I recently bought a new Toyota Tundra.  I overheard a fellow say, "Why is there a doc fee on a used truck?"  

I knew exactly what he meant.  He would have probably asked the same question if he were buying a new F150.
View Quote


Medical school is expensive.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 8:51:28 AM EST
The best deals I have gotten came from internet sales guys and vehicles that high volume dealerships got in on a trade prior to sales prep. A broken cup holder and a dented plastic front bumper cover got me $1000 under KBB. Fixed it with a heat gun and $30 replacement cup holder on Amazon. Got my wife a car for almost $2k under KBB because they were going to have to do a repaint on the trunk.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:00:38 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 9:41:57 AM EST by SteelonSteel]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Dock fee? What is it, a boaterhome?
View Quote



well beaten.......


because you parked it at the marina.


Simply walk from a deal if you feel your bill is getting padded and tell them why.  

I walked over financing, I have stellar credit and negotiated a really decent price with the agreement that for the cut price they do the financing.  I wnt so far to put a $500 deposit down to lock the truck as I lost a truck deal as it got sold during my haggle.  

They informed me of the great news via email or text that they got me a great percentage rate at nearly 4%.   My response was of course mocking them with that.   They tried to push that line and came down a smidge after the weekend.  I told them where they needed to be to match the credit union.  They said they couldn’t do it.   Sorry, no dice then, refund the $500 deposit.

Of course they came back just under where I told them was the minimum I would do in just a few day.......after ignoring a few plaintive emails to still deal.

If they want to deal, they will deal.  My deal was two states away and that place had trucks actually on the lot and were talking.  I had few trucks at local places that were dealing.   Closest one has “fixed” everybody gets our best deal price.  That didn’t work for me.   I got a better equiped truck for less in a better color elsewhere.

Only thing I really didn’t want to go for was the out of state inspection.  Our state has our own inspections.   I paid it anyhow writing it off as  the delivery fee in my mind.  Two guys and a chase vehicle from about 85 miles away to drop it off at my house.  Good nuff.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:00:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JDennis:



Wrong.

Doc Fees are legit, they vary from state to state. Some states have a minimum and a maximum.  They are the fee's associated with title processing and paperwork. Mine are 100.00. Most dealers charge 150-250. Sadly some dealers use it as a profit center and charge upwards of $500.00.  Dealers don't just go down to the DMV and wait in line like a normal person. They have a separate person that handles their titling. Sometimes there are a dozen or more titles. The customers at the DMV would not be happy waiting for a dozen titles or more to get processed.
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Originally Posted By JDennis:
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit



Wrong.

Doc Fees are legit, they vary from state to state. Some states have a minimum and a maximum.  They are the fee's associated with title processing and paperwork. Mine are 100.00. Most dealers charge 150-250. Sadly some dealers use it as a profit center and charge upwards of $500.00.  Dealers don't just go down to the DMV and wait in line like a normal person. They have a separate person that handles their titling. Sometimes there are a dozen or more titles. The customers at the DMV would not be happy waiting for a dozen titles or more to get processed.

I've had two different dealers charge $800+. Wife said no more arguing and to pay it. Fuckers.

Kharn
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:02:49 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 9:08:49 AM EST by trails-end]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Waldo:

Dock fee? What is it, a boaterhome?
View Quote



You get it.  The rest?    

Fuckers don't even read, or can't spell, or think the same as the guy I overheard.  

"Why am I paying dock fees on a vehicle that's made in America?"
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:03:10 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By AKengineer:
The best deals I have gotten came from internet sales guys and vehicles that high volume dealerships got in on a trade prior to sales prep. A broken cup holder and a dented plastic front bumper cover got me $1000 under KBB. Fixed it with a heat gun and $30 replacement cup holder on Amazon. Got my wife a car for almost $2k under KBB because they were going to have to do a repaint on the trunk.
View Quote



Got to love the scratch and dent sale, were just gonna scratch and dent it ourselves so why not get money off for it
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:16:56 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JDennis:



Wrong.

Doc Fees are legit, they vary from state to state. Some states have a minimum and a maximum.  They are the fee's associated with title processing and paperwork. Mine are 100.00. Most dealers charge 150-250. Sadly some dealers use it as a profit center and charge upwards of $500.00.  Dealers don't just go down to the DMV and wait in line like a normal person. They have a separate person that handles their titling. Sometimes there are a dozen or more titles. The customers at the DMV would not be happy waiting for a dozen titles or more to get processed.
View Quote


No they are just an extra fee they add on to increase their profits. I’m not doubting that they have to have a special person to go do all the paperwork but so what that is just a cost of them doing business. What’s next a fuel fee for all the gas they have to put in the cars for test drives? A parking lot fee because they have to have a place to park the cars? An electric fee fecause they have to have lights in their office? The doc fee is a bullshit thing they add on to the agreed upon price. If you ever go shopping for an ATV or UTV them fuckers tell you a price on a machine and then they want to add doc fee, delivery fee, and setup fee. Yes all that shit costs money to do but just add it to the price you tell me don’t make me think it costs one amount and then add bullshit to it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:26:31 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By oxford411:
The only number that really matters is the final price out the door.  You shop around until you find the best one.
View Quote


I don't care if the vehicle is 40K and the BS fees are 0 or the other way around.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:28:21 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 9:31:40 AM EST by JDennis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Doodlebug:


No they are just an extra fee they add on to increase their profits. I’m not doubting that they have to have a special person to go do all the paperwork but so what that is just a cost of them doing business. What’s next a fuel fee for all the gas they have to put in the cars for test drives? A parking lot fee because they have to have a place to park the cars? An electric fee fecause they have to have lights in their office? The doc fee is a bullshit thing they add on to the agreed upon price. If you ever go shopping for an ATV or UTV them fuckers tell you a price on a machine and then they want to add doc fee, delivery fee, and setup fee. Yes all that shit costs money to do but just add it to the price you tell me don’t make me think it costs one amount and then add bullshit to it.
View Quote



Actually every vehicle is charged a gas charge.  When the vehicle file gets fuel, the cost of that fuel goes on to the cost of the vehicle.   Even the full tank you get on new vehicles is charged to the vehicle.

You really think a business will eat a expense associated to the product being sold???? Only things not charged to the vehicle is overhead like lights, gas, water, rent.

ETA, they are not a extra fee added on for profit, BUT like I said, they are often inflated to add some profit.

Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:29:17 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rsell316:



Got to love the scratch and dent sale, were just gonna scratch and dent it ourselves so why not get money off for it
View Quote

I almost got an absolute bargain on a 4Runner Sport but the internet sales guy was like "I don't feel comfortable selling this one it's going straight to wholesale auction". No body rot or anything that wasn't fixable for someone planning on replacing most of the suspension and heavily modifying the interior anyway.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:32:45 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By terryj:
In Texas they set a maximum Document Fee of $150.
View Quote

Which means the MINIMUM document fee is $150...
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:33:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JDennis:



Wrong.

Doc Fees are legit, they vary from state to state. Some states have a minimum and a maximum.  They are the fee's associated with title processing and paperwork. Mine are 100.00. Most dealers charge 150-250. Sadly some dealers use it as a profit center and charge upwards of $500.00.  Dealers don't just go down to the DMV and wait in line like a normal person. They have a separate person that handles their titling. Sometimes there are a dozen or more titles. The customers at the DMV would not be happy waiting for a dozen titles or more to get processed.
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Originally Posted By JDennis:
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit



Wrong.

Doc Fees are legit, they vary from state to state. Some states have a minimum and a maximum.  They are the fee's associated with title processing and paperwork. Mine are 100.00. Most dealers charge 150-250. Sadly some dealers use it as a profit center and charge upwards of $500.00.  Dealers don't just go down to the DMV and wait in line like a normal person. They have a separate person that handles their titling. Sometimes there are a dozen or more titles. The customers at the DMV would not be happy waiting for a dozen titles or more to get processed.



Horseshit. It's another incoming line item for the dealer's pocket. Nothing more.

You don't pay a "stock boy fee" or a "bookkeeper fee" at the grocery store. You're passing on a cost of doing business because you know once people have gotten that far in the deal they'll swallow it.

It's like the jagoffs that have a "rehoming fee" on Craigslist for their dog. It's not a rehoming fee. It's the price. You're selling your dog. If calling it something different makes you feel less guilty about that, you're not intelligent.

That said, most dealerships have doc fees for used cars and most won't budge on it. All the YouTube channels say to get the dealer to drop the doc fee. I've sold cars two different places, and those places had a total of 7 dealerships under their management, and they wouldn't give an inch on the doc fee. They MIGHT (I've seen it once or twice) take that amount off the price of the car, but if they do it's money you could have gotten off just by negotiating.

It's just one of the reasons people believe car dealers are lying scum. Which in my opinion (having worked at one two different times) is always at least somewhat true. Even the "good ones" have a layer of the corruption, lying, and theft baked into their psyche if they've survived long enough to reach management or even be a successful salesmen. Scum.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:43:29 AM EST
In the past I’ve just gone to a different state where doc fees are not charged.  I saw it where one dealership in a town started charging it and then the next Thing you know they all started charging it.  So I drove 2 hours away to get my last 2 vehicles.  Lower price to begin with and no doc fee.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:45:07 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 9:46:05 AM EST by JDennis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mucknuggle:



Horseshit. It's another incoming line item for the dealer's pocket. Nothing more.

You don't pay a "stock boy fee" or a "bookkeeper fee" at the grocery store. You're passing on a cost of doing business because you know once people have gotten that far in the deal they'll swallow it.

It's like the jagoffs that have a "rehoming fee" on Craigslist for their dog. It's not a rehoming fee. It's the price. You're selling your dog. If calling it something different makes you feel less guilty about that, you're not intelligent.

That said, most dealerships have doc fees for used cars and most won't budge on it. All the YouTube channels say to get the dealer to drop the doc fee. I've sold cars two different places, and those places had a total of 7 dealerships under their management, and they wouldn't give an inch on the doc fee. They MIGHT (I've seen it once or twice) take that amount off the price of the car, but if they do it's money you could have gotten off just by negotiating.

It's just one of the reasons people believe car dealers are lying scum. Which in my opinion (having worked at one two different times) is always at least somewhat true. Even the "good ones" have a layer of the corruption, lying, and theft baked into their psyche if they've survived long enough to reach management or even be a successful salesmen. Scum.
View Quote


You are way wrong, but that's fine. Feel free to look up all my posts regarding car buying.  I have nothing to hide and nothing to lie about. Been in the business for 21 years.  I have done everything from Mechanic, to Sevice Manger, to Sales, to Finance Manager, to General Manager and most recently now a Owning Partner.  People make the car business way more complicated than it is.  Obviously you don't own a business or know how one works. And on top of it, most places wouldn't try to sell you a vehicle with a attitude like that. That's why customers with your attitude get blown off, ignored, they won't negotiate or even just tell you no. Dealers will save the effort for customers that actually will benefit they're business (not necessarily monetarily).  Chances are if you have your attitude, your not going to recommend people to come to my dealership no matter what, you are not going to spend money for service, you are not going to mention me.  In fact, no matter what your ALWAYS going to have a chip on your shoulder, no matter what or how far I try to make you happy.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:46:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 9:47:12 AM EST by armoredsaint]
my BMW dealer tried that shit with me and iirc it was $425

and this is a dock op

Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:51:17 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 9:51:41 AM EST by trails-end]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
my BMW dealer tried that shit with me and iirc it was $425

and this is a dock op
http://www.vwdocks.com/_managedFiles/photoGallery/large/1497453953.jpg
View Quote



Did you read anything in the initial post?

This is comical, and sad.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:54:08 AM EST
I always negotiate on my price out the door. They can do whatever they feel like inside that price, don’t care if they say $10k doc fee. Fuck em
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:57:02 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By trails-end:



Did you read anything in the initial post?

This is comical, and sad.
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Originally Posted By trails-end:
Originally Posted By armoredsaint:
my BMW dealer tried that shit with me and iirc it was $425

and this is a dock op
http://www.vwdocks.com/_managedFiles/photoGallery/large/1497453953.jpg



Did you read anything in the initial post?

This is comical, and sad.

Link Posted: 2/21/2021 9:59:39 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dirtyboy:
That is why I always ask for the total amount, before buying.
View Quote
This^
Set an out the door cost and stick to it.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:00:21 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FS7:


This. I don't understand why people get upset over certain fees. Whether you're paying cash or financing you have a final dollar amount. If that meets my requirements I don't care one bit how the dealer breaks it down.
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Originally Posted By FS7:
Originally Posted By oxford411:
The only number that really matters is the final price out the door.  You shop around until you find the best one.


This. I don't understand why people get upset over certain fees. Whether you're paying cash or financing you have a final dollar amount. If that meets my requirements I don't care one bit how the dealer breaks it down.

These!

/Thread
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:02:06 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By oxford411:
The only number that really matters is the final price out the door.  You shop around until you find the best one.
View Quote

This
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:02:54 AM EST
Do you feel like a lollipop?
😯
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:04:29 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pale_pony:
youtube has tons of videos on closing the deal in the finance office, the only legitimate fees are Tax, Tag, and License

the rest are bullshit
View Quote



You are correct Sir .


gd
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:13:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JDennis:


You are way wrong, but that's fine. Feel free to look up all my posts regarding car buying.  I have nothing to hide and nothing to lie about. Been in the business for 21 years.  I have done everything from Mechanic, to Sevice Manger, to Sales, to Finance Manager, to General Manager and most recently now a Owning Partner.  People make the car business way more complicated than it is.  Obviously you don't own a business or know how one works. And on top of it, most places wouldn't try to sell you a vehicle with a attitude like that. That's why customers with your attitude get blown off, ignored, they won't negotiate or even just tell you no. Dealers will save the effort for customers that actually will benefit they're business (not necessarily monetarily).  Chances are if you have your attitude, your not going to recommend people to come to my dealership no matter what, you are not going to spend money for service, you are not going to mention me.  In fact, no matter what your ALWAYS going to have a chip on your shoulder, no matter what or how far I try to make you happy.
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You’re missing his point, and I agree with him. Doc fees are bullshit.

No one is arguing that it doesn’t cost a dealer money to process documents. But the fact is, that’s one of many overhead costs and a part of selling car. So why treat it like a separate line item with a separate fee? You don’t charge a separate fee for the dealerships light bill. You don’t tack on a fee for gas in the car, even though it may be figured into the price. A car dealership is one of the only businesses that tries to charge an extra fee just for processing a sale.

You don’t go to buy a tv and then get hit with a “cashier fee” and a “warehouse storage fee” on top of the tv price. Those overhead costs are built into the tv price.

A vehicle is no different. Using a doc fee as a separate line item is just a manipulative way to price the car as low as possible on the window and then adding it back when the customer is hooked.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:13:48 AM EST
We have a doc fee and are up front about it. We have no hidden bullshit costs, no surprises. We are a family owned dealership and we have a good amount of employees. There is a lot of stuff behind the scenes many do not know what happens. I, for one, did not realize until I started last Sept. PROFIT is not a bad word. We are fair, transparent and we do not pressure (and are in the top 15 of all of North American dealerships for customer satisfaction.)

A doc fee is part of our numbers and is non negotiable for us. Sure we profit on a doc fee, but how would a business stay operational if it did not make any money?
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:15:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:19:30 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By graysonp:



You’re missing his point, and I agree with him. Doc fees are bullshit.

No one is arguing that it doesn’t cost a dealer money to process documents. But the fact is, that’s one of many overhead costs and a part of selling car. So why treat it like a separate line item with a separate fee? You don’t charge a separate fee for the dealerships light bill. You don’t tack on a fee for gas in the car, even though it may be figured into the price. A car dealership is one of the only businesses that tries to charge an extra fee just for processing a sale.

You don’t go to buy a tv and then get hit with a “cashier fee” and a “warehouse storage fee” on top of the tv price. Those overhead costs are built into the tv price.

A vehicle is no different. Using a doc fee as a separate line item is just a manipulative way to price the car as low as possible on the window and then adding it back when the customer is hooked.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By graysonp:
Originally Posted By JDennis:


You are way wrong, but that's fine. Feel free to look up all my posts regarding car buying.  I have nothing to hide and nothing to lie about. Been in the business for 21 years.  I have done everything from Mechanic, to Sevice Manger, to Sales, to Finance Manager, to General Manager and most recently now a Owning Partner.  People make the car business way more complicated than it is.  Obviously you don't own a business or know how one works. And on top of it, most places wouldn't try to sell you a vehicle with a attitude like that. That's why customers with your attitude get blown off, ignored, they won't negotiate or even just tell you no. Dealers will save the effort for customers that actually will benefit they're business (not necessarily monetarily).  Chances are if you have your attitude, your not going to recommend people to come to my dealership no matter what, you are not going to spend money for service, you are not going to mention me.  In fact, no matter what your ALWAYS going to have a chip on your shoulder, no matter what or how far I try to make you happy.



You’re missing his point, and I agree with him. Doc fees are bullshit.

No one is arguing that it doesn’t cost a dealer money to process documents. But the fact is, that’s one of many overhead costs and a part of selling car. So why treat it like a separate line item with a separate fee? You don’t charge a separate fee for the dealerships light bill. You don’t tack on a fee for gas in the car, even though it may be figured into the price. A car dealership is one of the only businesses that tries to charge an extra fee just for processing a sale.

You don’t go to buy a tv and then get hit with a “cashier fee” and a “warehouse storage fee” on top of the tv price. Those overhead costs are built into the tv price.

A vehicle is no different. Using a doc fee as a separate line item is just a manipulative way to price the car as low as possible on the window and then adding it back when the customer is hooked.

Probably has to do with internet sales from small time used car lots. They advertise the lowest price for a car then add $4k in fees on top once you are in the door. Now the whole industry has followed this to get people in the door. One of the techs I work with went to a small used car lot after seeing the car online for $7k. He walked out after the fees on the car made it $11k before tax and title. And he works at a dealer so he knows a doc fee is going to be added. They added clean up fees and some other bullshit to the price. It works for those shitty used car lots because not all people get up and walk away.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:19:52 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FS7:


This. I don't understand why people get upset over certain fees. Whether you're paying cash or financing you have a final dollar amount. If that meets my requirements I don't care one bit how the dealer breaks it down.
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Originally Posted By FS7:
Originally Posted By oxford411:
The only number that really matters is the final price out the door.  You shop around until you find the best one.


This. I don't understand why people get upset over certain fees. Whether you're paying cash or financing you have a final dollar amount. If that meets my requirements I don't care one bit how the dealer breaks it down.
Yep.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:20:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 10:21:01 AM EST by JDennis]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By graysonp:



You’re missing his point, and I agree with him. Doc fees are bullshit.

No one is arguing that it doesn’t cost a dealer money to process documents. But the fact is, that’s one of many overhead costs and a part of selling car. So why treat it like a separate line item with a separate fee? You don’t charge a separate fee for the dealerships light bill. You don’t tack on a fee for gas in the car, even though it may be figured into the price. A car dealership is one of the only businesses that tries to charge an extra fee just for processing a sale.

You don’t go to buy a tv and then get hit with a “cashier fee” and a “warehouse storage fee” on top of the tv price. Those overhead costs are built into the tv price.

A vehicle is no different. Using a doc fee as a separate line item is just a manipulative way to price the car as low as possible on the window and then adding it back when the customer is hooked.
View Quote



I understand your point, but doc fees are required. Dealers have to charge them and everyone has to pay them.  Even if someone says they didn't, they HAD to pay it, it will show on the paperwork. They just take it off the price. It has to be broke down and show on the purchase agreement, otherwise the dealer can get in a world of shit.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:20:23 AM EST
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Originally Posted By JDennis:


You are way wrong, but that's fine. Feel free to look up all my posts regarding car buying.  I have nothing to hide and nothing to lie about. Been in the business for 21 years.  I have done everything from Mechanic, to Sevice Manger, to Sales, to Finance Manager, to General Manager and most recently now a Owning Partner.  People make the car business way more complicated than it is.  Obviously you don't own a business or know how one works. And on top of it, most places wouldn't try to sell you a vehicle with a attitude like that. That's why customers with your attitude get blown off, ignored, they won't negotiate or even just tell you no. Dealers will save the effort for customers that actually will benefit they're business (not necessarily monetarily).  Chances are if you have your attitude, your not going to recommend people to come to my dealership no matter what, you are not going to spend money for service, you are not going to mention me.  In fact, no matter what your ALWAYS going to have a chip on your shoulder, no matter what or how far I try to make you happy.
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Originally Posted By JDennis:
Originally Posted By mucknuggle:



Horseshit. It's another incoming line item for the dealer's pocket. Nothing more.

You don't pay a "stock boy fee" or a "bookkeeper fee" at the grocery store. You're passing on a cost of doing business because you know once people have gotten that far in the deal they'll swallow it.

It's like the jagoffs that have a "rehoming fee" on Craigslist for their dog. It's not a rehoming fee. It's the price. You're selling your dog. If calling it something different makes you feel less guilty about that, you're not intelligent.

That said, most dealerships have doc fees for used cars and most won't budge on it. All the YouTube channels say to get the dealer to drop the doc fee. I've sold cars two different places, and those places had a total of 7 dealerships under their management, and they wouldn't give an inch on the doc fee. They MIGHT (I've seen it once or twice) take that amount off the price of the car, but if they do it's money you could have gotten off just by negotiating.

It's just one of the reasons people believe car dealers are lying scum. Which in my opinion (having worked at one two different times) is always at least somewhat true. Even the "good ones" have a layer of the corruption, lying, and theft baked into their psyche if they've survived long enough to reach management or even be a successful salesmen. Scum.


You are way wrong, but that's fine. Feel free to look up all my posts regarding car buying.  I have nothing to hide and nothing to lie about. Been in the business for 21 years.  I have done everything from Mechanic, to Sevice Manger, to Sales, to Finance Manager, to General Manager and most recently now a Owning Partner.  People make the car business way more complicated than it is.  Obviously you don't own a business or know how one works. And on top of it, most places wouldn't try to sell you a vehicle with a attitude like that. That's why customers with your attitude get blown off, ignored, they won't negotiate or even just tell you no. Dealers will save the effort for customers that actually will benefit they're business (not necessarily monetarily).  Chances are if you have your attitude, your not going to recommend people to come to my dealership no matter what, you are not going to spend money for service, you are not going to mention me.  In fact, no matter what your ALWAYS going to have a chip on your shoulder, no matter what or how far I try to make you happy.



You're wrong about me being wrong. See how that works? You're a dealer. Your lips are moving. Nuff said.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:20:47 AM EST
[Last Edit: 2/21/2021 10:23:24 AM EST by chupacabras]
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Originally Posted By FS7:


This. I don't understand why people get upset over certain fees. Whether you're paying cash or financing you have a final dollar amount. If that meets my requirements I don't care one bit how the dealer breaks it down.
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Yeah I just work to a number and I don’t care how they allocate them after that.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:21:18 AM EST
I always enjoy it when people tell me that they don't pay doc fees.

Listen, you're paying a doc fee. You might've had an adjustment for your sales price to compensate for it, but you paid a doc fee.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:23:16 AM EST
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Originally Posted By trails-end:



Did you read anything in the initial post?

This is comical, and sad.
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Don't you think your original post if fucking dildos if nobody understands what the fuck you are trying to get across. We are all just a bunch of idiots who think you can't spell doc correctly.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:27:29 AM EST
I negotiated the price on a used car and then they hit me with the stupid "window etching" scam during the paperwork.

I told them "You didn't run out and do the etching since we agreed on a price did you?". They said no of course not.
I said correct, the price we agreed on was for how it sits right now. It already had the stupid etching when we agreed
on the price. You can't start bumping up the price for features on the car that were already there when we agreed on the
price. They finally dropped the $250 etching fee (that cost them $20 anyway).

I also tried to get them to drop the doc fee, got in a heated debate with the manager over that. And I almost killed the
deal over it, but it was actually a good deal on the car. Lost that fight.

Turned out to be a great car but I still call them crooks every time I get another sales call from them.

Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:31:12 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mucknuggle:



You're wrong about me being wrong. See how that works? You're a dealer. Your lips are moving. Nuff said.
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Dang, if we are throwing out cliche`s, don't forget the All buyers are liars.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:33:13 AM EST
Last car i bought, when the salesman came back with his "best offer" i told him to get me out the door for that price after taxes tags and fees. He got it done after a bit. I guess what im saying is theres less fees when its cutting into their commission
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:36:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Cross-Threaded:

I negotiated the price on a used car and then they hit me with the stupid "window etching" scam during the paperwork.

I told them "You didn't run out and do the etching since we agreed on a price did you?". They said no of course not.
I said correct, the price we agreed on was for how it sits right now. It already had the stupid etching when we agreed
on the price. You can't start bumping up the price for features on the car that were already there when we agreed on the
price. They finally dropped the $250 etching fee (that cost them $20 anyway).

I also tried to get them to drop the doc fee, got in a heated debate with the manager over that. And I almost killed the
deal over it, but it was actually a good deal on the car. Lost that fight.

Turned out to be a great car but I still call them crooks every time I get another sales call from them.

View Quote



The last time I got a used a truck, we agreed on an out the door prices. After all taxes and fees. Then, they added a $600 alarm I didn’t ask for and said they install it on all trucks and I have to pay it. I told them to remove the alarm or the cost. They said no and I was in the moment of opening my door to leave when they agreed not to charge for an alarm I didn’t ask for
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:40:28 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JDennis:


You are way wrong, but that's fine. Feel free to look up all my posts regarding car buying.  I have nothing to hide and nothing to lie about. Been in the business for 21 years.  I have done everything from Mechanic, to Sevice Manger, to Sales, to Finance Manager, to General Manager and most recently now a Owning Partner.  People make the car business way more complicated than it is.  Obviously you don't own a business or know how one works. And on top of it, most places wouldn't try to sell you a vehicle with a attitude like that. That's why customers with your attitude get blown off, ignored, they won't negotiate or even just tell you no. Dealers will save the effort for customers that actually will benefit they're business (not necessarily monetarily).  Chances are if you have your attitude, your not going to recommend people to come to my dealership no matter what, you are not going to spend money for service, you are not going to mention me.  In fact, no matter what your ALWAYS going to have a chip on your shoulder, no matter what or how far I try to make you happy.
View Quote


The entire business model you are in is...well...fucked up!

And antiquated!

The sooner new business models like Carvana get more and more market share the more better’er.

Besides, your business has its own marketing/advertising department.  It’s not my job to advertise for you.



Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:40:34 AM EST
I'll talk to my boss, they install that true coat at the factory you know.
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:44:34 AM EST
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Originally Posted By WeimaranerDad:


The entire business model you are in is...well...fucked up!

And antiquated!

The sooner new business models like Carvana get more and more market share the more better’er.

Besides, your business has its own marketing/advertising department.  It’s not my job to advertise for you.



View Quote


Dealerships are the worst. I can’t wait until more services like you mentioned, force them into actually being honest
Link Posted: 2/21/2021 10:44:34 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By smcclain:
This^
Set an out the door cost and stick to it.
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Maybe I am just a little different, but I don’t look at OTD cost/price.

I figure in my down payment + (monthly payment X 60 months) = total overall price.

Then compare that to the sticker price.


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