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Posted: 8/1/2017 11:00:32 AM EDT
[#1]
There's racists in every organization.
Here in PA, black men are welcome... however, you don't see many. We do recognize PH though. |
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Posted: 8/1/2017 12:56:40 PM EDT
[#2]
From what I gathered by reading different coments and what I've heard mouth to ear a few years ago, PHA is not recognized, some who see racism in everything won't accept that fact and therefore, our lodges are racist because of it. I have never personally heard anyone state they wouldn't sit with a black man in a lodge. I have heard many state that a Mason is a Mason, but lodge is not discussed with PHA. I seriously think Liberalism is trying to, if not already has, infect F&AM like it does everything else. "They" have to tear down everything. They start by accusing people of being: racist, sexist, islamophobic anti-gay, you name it.
Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong. |
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Posted: 8/6/2017 9:52:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Here in TX our grand lodges recognize each other. but you have to have permission to visit a PHA lodge.
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Posted: 8/24/2017 10:37:53 AM EDT
[#4]
The only states that dont recognize PHA are all in the deep south, go figure.
http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm |
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Posted: 9/1/2017 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only states that dont recognize PHA are all in the deep south, go figure. http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm |
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Posted: 9/1/2017 11:15:41 AM EDT
[#6]
In Wisconsin we have recognition for visitation. Prince Hall has so many Military Lodges we get a lot of kids that are Masons, but can't transfer. PH won't release them and we require that they go through the degrees again. Stupid.
I was a Grand Council officer, PMIGM, and a Grand Chapter officer, now Grand King. When I was MIGM I tried to get the same recognition with PH RAM. I can't do more because of Grand Lodge's recognition. I met with heavy resistance. Not from PH, but my guys. PHGM and PHGHP were on board. It was very discouraging. Next year I'm GHP and I going to fix it one way or another. |
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Posted: 9/1/2017 4:58:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In Wisconsin we have recognition for visitation. Prince Hall has so many Military Lodges we get a lot of kids that are Masons, but can't transfer. PH won't release them and we require that they go through the degrees again. Stupid. |
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Posted: 9/1/2017 5:18:30 PM EDT
[#8]
No problems in OH
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Posted: 9/2/2017 4:09:15 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only states that dont recognize PHA are all in the deep south, go figure. http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm |
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Posted: 9/24/2017 5:22:06 PM EDT
[#10]
I saw in Virginia the PH and Blue lodge both meet in the Washington Masonic memorial
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Posted: 9/26/2017 8:31:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I saw in Virginia the PH and Blue lodge both meet in the Washington Masonic memorial |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 3:39:44 PM EDT
[#12]
been out of lodge for awhile but i did a masonic research paper on this several years ago.
there are many black masons that are members of regular lodges. there are also a few lodges that will go out of their way to keep them out. same for PH lodges here and whites. several years ago some members of the alabama grand lodge made an effort to reach out to PH grand lodge to seek reconciliation and attempt recognition. As the PH lodge was the younger "lodge" protocol dictated they must request it, it could not just be offered. PH essentially gave the Alabama GL the finger and stated they didn't want nor need recognition from us. that was their right and choice. there is a LOT more to that story but that is the basics. |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 3:43:02 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only states that dont recognize PHA are all in the deep south, go figure. http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm |
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Posted: 10/13/2017 11:44:23 PM EDT
[#14]
Montana was the first State Grand Jurisdiction to recognize Prince Hall Masons but prior to that no Grand Jurisdiction would allow any person of color in (based on the qualification that it takes to become and Entered Apprentice "A man being free born"). Now all Grand Jurisdictions have no such restriction and all make it against the Code and Constitution to do so. The 9 Grand Jurisdictions that do not recognize Prince Hall view them as clandestine lodges now that anyone is welcome into there ranks.
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Posted: 10/27/2017 6:12:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In a joint meeting or separate? |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 12:01:24 PM EDT
[#16]
I've only met one PHA Mason and he lived next to a house we were remodeling for a friend. I noticed his ring and asked him about it.
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Posted: 11/6/2017 7:11:34 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
I just divested myself from what I thought was a decent FB( I know) page on Alabama Freemasonry. There's been this big hoopla over whether someone would sit in the same lodge with a black man and how not having PHA in a Blue Lodge is racist and non-Masonic and on and on. Without giving up too much, WTF is going on? Is this going on everywhere? My lodge is beyond my you-know-what since I moved to Mississippi so I'm not privy to what is talked about there but there seems to be a big divide between those who want the two practically merged and those who feel it is fine the way it is. I hate fixing things that aren't broke that people then break to 'make better'. Is the current way broken? I've never understood this and is part of the reason I'm not more active. I thought all masons met on the level and race, creed, religion etc...didn't matter. If it DOES matter, then the institution means nothing. I might as well just join another organization. Never understood why freemasonry sabotages itself like that. 
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Posted: 11/6/2017 11:44:49 AM EDT
[#18]
I've never sat with or even known a PH Mason.
But, my lodge has several minority members. A few Black dudes, couple Mexicans and one Asian guy, who is a member of this forum and displays the S+C. Nobody bats an eye. They are all good men. |
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Posted: 11/6/2017 3:25:23 PM EDT
[#19]
old racists in dying lodges, grasping at what little power they can muster.
if you can barely keep your lights on, open lodge, etc.. you have no business telling other lodges ANYTHING. change is coming. just from sheer numbers of new brethren below the age of 40 and brethren above 60, unless they get a huge wave of new brethren to keep their lodge open, they'll either have to combine with other lodges or close their doors. you can vote out only so long before mortality wins. I've never personally understood it, because since my 1st lesson, I was taught all men are equal. |
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Posted: 11/16/2017 11:01:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
old racists in dying lodges, grasping at what little power they can muster. if you can barely keep your lights on, open lodge, etc.. you have no business telling other lodges ANYTHING. change is coming. just from sheer numbers of new brethren below the age of 40 and brethren above 60, unless they get a huge wave of new brethren to keep their lodge open, they'll either have to combine with other lodges or close their doors. you can vote out only so long before mortality wins. I've never personally understood it, because since my 1st lesson, I was taught all men are equal. My lodge is mainly over 65 I am in my 50's and practically a kid in the lodge. There are 3 lodges in the county with my lodge 1 is 150 years old and barely has enough attendance to open for a meeting. The other 2 probably have at least 20-30 at every meeting. The few members of the old lodge do not want to consolidate. |
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Posted: 11/16/2017 9:40:45 PM EDT
[#21]
Our small rural lodge has two black members, one just left the east last year. No PHA anywhere near us.
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Posted: 11/27/2017 4:46:42 PM EDT
[#22]
I don't know how true it is, but I was told the PHA weren't recognized by the GL in GA because they segregated themselves a long time ago and gave up thier charter. I also heard Gate city lodge #2
In ATL, raised the first black man to MM in a GA blue lodge about 7 or so years ago. It stirred up quite a stink as I recall and I haven't heard anything about it since. Ok I just googled it, apparently he was raised twice and blackballed both times. He was raised a third time in 2013 and allowed in. |
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Posted: 11/27/2017 5:44:24 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know how true it is, but I was told the PHA weren't recognized by the GL in GA because they segregated themselves a long time ago and gave up thier charter. I also heard Gate city lodge #2 In ATL, raised the first black man to MM in a GA blue lodge about 7 or so years ago. It stirred up quite a stink as I recall and I haven't heard anything about it since. Ok I just googled it, apparently he was raised twice and blackballed both times. He was raised a third time in 2013 and allowed in. |
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Posted: 11/27/2017 6:42:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know how true it is, but I was told the PHA weren't recognized by the GL in GA because they segregated themselves a long time ago and gave up thier charter. I also heard Gate city lodge #2 In ATL, raised the first black man to MM in a GA blue lodge about 7 or so years ago. It stirred up quite a stink as I recall and I haven't heard anything about it since. Ok I just googled it, apparently he was raised twice and blackballed both times. He was raised a third time in 2013 and allowed in. |
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Posted: 11/28/2017 3:10:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know how true it is, but I was told the PHA weren't recognized by the GL in GA because they segregated themselves a long time ago and gave up thier charter. I also heard Gate city lodge #2 In ATL, raised the first black man to MM in a GA blue lodge about 7 or so years ago. It stirred up quite a stink as I recall and I haven't heard anything about it since. Ok I just googled it, apparently he was raised twice and blackballed both times. He was raised a third time in 2013 and allowed in. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 10:11:25 AM EDT
[#26]
All I know is PH Masons just about always throw signs to me going down the interstate here in TN when they see my Masonic license plate. I have friends in Florida that are PH. My impression of the ones in TN is they are very proud, and very much involved.
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Posted: 4/5/2018 8:28:35 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All I know is PH Masons just about always throw signs to me going down the interstate here in TN when they see my Masonic license plate. I have friends in Florida that are PH. My impression of the ones in TN is they are very proud, and very much involved. Ive never been thrown any signs by anyone. |
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Posted: 4/5/2018 9:29:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What kind of signs. Ive never been thrown any signs by anyone. |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 4:52:35 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
i have had prince hall give me the MM sign in store before and then come up and say hello while i was wearing a masonic shirt. it happens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What kind of signs. Ive never been thrown any signs by anyone. |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 8:02:25 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So it's a PH thing? |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 8:58:51 AM EDT
[#31]
My lodge is dying and it's all because of one old dude that refuses to let anyone in. It took me 6 years to get admitted and the only reason I was finally voted in was because he was out of town on the night my vote came up. He is unbelievably racist and is in general a pain in the ass. He has said on multiple occasions he will never sit in lodge with a (*^&(*&#. Pisses me off every time he says it. He's run damn near everyone away. The last meeting I was the only person in lodge not in a chair.
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Posted: 4/6/2018 9:18:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My lodge is dying and it's all because of one old dude that refuses to let anyone in. It took me 6 years to get admitted and the only reason I was finally voted in was because he was out of town on the night my vote came up. He is unbelievably racist and is in general a pain in the ass. He has said on multiple occasions he will never sit in lodge with a (*^&(*&#. Pisses me off every time he says it. He's run damn near everyone away. The last meeting I was the only person in lodge not in a chair. Last i heard they barely had enough people to open lodge on meeting nights and were asking visitors to routinely stand in for 2 of the top officer roles during meetings. It's sad. As one of the older guys that was a good man once told me. The only way to fix this lodge is with a few good masonic funerals. lol it took me a long to time to realize that this was not masonry. This was not how it acts or what it teaches. This was a group of men that joined, ran through the degrees and learned nothing along the way. This is why i am VERY big on taking time during the learning the degree work and teaching men before allowing them to progress. One of the main reasons for the work as done to allow men to grow and take the next degree when they are ready. some may be ready in a week, others years. lack of education and proper vetting give us these fools. We should not be a good ol boys club. |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 9:49:18 AM EDT
[#33]
PA requires 3 BB's or a phone call to the DD and it better be good.
Still see one BB a year. Mostly cuz they are an asshole. |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 10:27:35 AM EDT
[#34]
alabama requires one. can be for any reason and it's considered unmasonic to discuss it or the reason. any brother can toss it for any reason.
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Posted: 4/6/2018 10:48:03 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
alabama requires one. can be for any reason and it's considered unmasonic to discuss it or the reason. any brother can toss it for any reason. If it was 1 nobody would get in either. Somebody tosses one every vote. Same old guy that is the only one that comes to every meeting and when he's on vacation, no BB's in the box. Hmmmm. PA changed it about 10 years ago, so one crusty old dude can't control the lodge. |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 11:18:43 AM EDT
[#36]
We use black cubes, in case anyone is colorblind. It only takes one to not be clear. If the ballot is not clear, the Master immediately calls for a new ballot in case a mistake may have been made. If it is again not clear, whoever made the objection has 48 hours to tell the Master why. He then forwards the objection, in writing, to the Grand Master for a decision. If the objector does not come forward within 48 hours, the ballot is declared clear.
In the case of the old fart that won't sit in a lodge with a "#$%^&*", the Master's gavel is more than ceremonial. If anyone had ever said that in lodge when I was Master, I'd have thrown his ass out! One night, I had a visitor from one of the states that doesn't recognize PHA. At dinner before lodge, he made a comment to me about my SD. I pitched his ass out right in the middle of dinner. I don't play that shit! Of course I also set the DDGM down one night too. Now that was a good time! |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 12:46:12 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the "old crew" is the reason i stepped away from lodge the year i was supposed to be WM. they made our lives hell for 3 years bucking everything we tried to do to grow and improve the lodge. even to the point of grand standing about the grass cutting schedule when none of them ever did it due to age. i knew i could not lead the lodge so long as they were there and i had no intention of being miserable and fighting with them every meeting so i stood down. I bought a life membership to stay current but have not been back to lodge since. I went to lodge to help better myself and community, not be miserable fighting with old fools. Last i heard they barely had enough people to open lodge on meeting nights and were asking visitors to routinely stand in for 2 of the top officer roles during meetings. It's sad. As one of the older guys that was a good man once told me. The only way to fix this lodge is with a few good masonic funerals. lol it took me a long to time to realize that this was not masonry. This was not how it acts or what it teaches. This was a group of men that joined, ran through the degrees and learned nothing along the way. This is why i am VERY big on taking time during the learning the degree work and teaching men before allowing them to progress. One of the main reasons for the work as done to allow men to grow and take the next degree when they are ready. some may be ready in a week, others years. lack of education and proper vetting give us these fools. We should not be a good ol boys club. |
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Posted: 4/6/2018 1:00:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
alabama requires one. can be for any reason and it's considered unmasonic to discuss it or the reason. any brother can toss it for any reason. |
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Posted: 4/19/2018 2:59:59 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
alabama requires one. can be for any reason and it's considered unmasonic to discuss it or the reason. any brother can toss it for any reason. Ga. requires 1 . My lodge had a petitioner get a BB. The butthurt and discussions were unmasonic and epic. The lodge held a special meeting and got the guy who got the BB into the lodge. He was raised and has never attended a meeting since then. |
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Posted: 8/6/2018 12:24:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only states that dont recognize PHA are all in the deep south, go figure. http://bessel.org/masrec/phachart.htm |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 4:09:44 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We use black cubes, in case anyone is colorblind. It only takes one to not be clear. If the ballot is not clear, the Master immediately calls for a new ballot in case a mistake may have been made. If it is again not clear, whoever made the objection has 48 hours to tell the Master why. He then forwards the objection, in writing, to the Grand Master for a decision. If the objector does not come forward within 48 hours, the ballot is declared clear. In the case of the old fart that won't sit in a lodge with a "#$%^&*", the Master's gavel is more than ceremonial. If anyone had ever said that in lodge when I was Master, I'd have thrown his ass out! One night, I had a visitor from one of the states that doesn't recognize PHA. At dinner before lodge, he made a comment to me about my SD. I pitched his ass out right in the middle of dinner. I don't play that shit! Of course I also set the DDGM down one night too. Now that was a good time! |
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Posted: 11/15/2018 7:19:29 PM EDT
[#42]
GL of MA reconciled and recognized PH >10 years ago.
I recall sitting with some PH members once but they've never been back. We have some very fine black gentlemen who are members of my Blue Lodge, men I am proud to call Brother! When I worked for DEC, there was a very nice gentlemen who worked in the lab next door to mine. He told me that he was raised in a Military PH Lodge years earlier. I was extremely embarrassed to hear of the divide and racism from him but back then (early 1980s) there was nothing either of us could do. |
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