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Posted: 11/24/2022 12:37:07 AM EST
I remember a while back there was a member on here that was experimenting with pressing nickel rod chunks into hollow points.

I never found out if it worked or not, and I got thinking about it the other day.

Any of you remember this? Sounds like something I would do, but sadly it's not me this time.
brownells
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 12:41:53 AM EST
[#1]
I thought it was YOU who came up with this stuff…
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 12:44:12 AM EST
[#2]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
I thought it was YOU who came up with this stuff…
View Quote


If was an offshoot of a thread on home made AP. I was in on that part of it. Then the member took the ball and ran with it.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 12:44:21 AM EST
[#3]
I think those solid copper bullets from Fort Scott kinda did away with the need. 9mm will go right through soft body armor and pistol rated stuff.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 12:51:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: TheJudgeHolden] [#4]
But why though?

Steel rod is easier to come by than nickel..
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 12:53:15 AM EST
[#5]
I've tossed this idea around, but I can never make the economics work.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 1:01:40 AM EST
[#6]
was the projectile inserted info a sabot?  atlas arms dagney dagger?
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 1:02:44 AM EST
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheJudgeHolden:
But why though?

Steel rod is easier to come by than nickel..
View Quote


Steel is on the no no list for pistol bullets but nickel isn't.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 1:03:09 AM EST
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TheJudgeHolden:
But why though?

Steel rod is easier to come by than nickel..
View Quote


It would fall under a protected class of component, and illegal under the definition of manufacturing ap ammo.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 7:09:40 AM EST
[#9]
Last I remember, his penetration tests were successful.

Can’t remember anything about accuracy.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 7:36:55 AM EST
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:


If was an offshoot of a thread on home made AP. I was in on that part of it. Then the member took the ball and ran with it.
View Quote

It would have been awhile back but did you do something on a .22 rim fire case from a penny or something. I don't really remember the specifics and it might not even match my description but do know it was impressive.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 7:47:54 AM EST
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By torstin:

It would have been awhile back but did you do something on a .22 rim fire case from a penny or something. I don't really remember the specifics and it might not even match my description but do know it was impressive.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By torstin:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:


If was an offshoot of a thread on home made AP. I was in on that part of it. Then the member took the ball and ran with it.

It would have been awhile back but did you do something on a .22 rim fire case from a penny or something. I don't really remember the specifics and it might not even match my description but do know it was impressive.


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 9:53:55 AM EST
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
View Quote

this thread?
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 9:56:44 AM EST
[Last Edit: rod727] [#13]
Rub them in arsenic…
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 9:58:11 AM EST
[#14]
I haven't bothered with nickel in JHP but I've had a great time with sabots. I made a poor 1895 Nagant revolver holepunch a IIIa vest.

It's the main reason I'm so interested in .30SC as well. Semi auto legal AP carry gun? Yes please.

Link Posted: 11/24/2022 9:58:46 AM EST
[#15]
It worked based on his tests. I'm waiting for the dagny dagger cause no one started offerings nickle penetrator rounds.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 2:46:48 PM EST
[#16]
This sounds cool. Tagged.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 2:52:31 PM EST
[#17]
My first guess was Salad Fingers guy but then OP is Salad Fingers guy.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 2:53:26 PM EST
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fuksoutof87:


Steel is on the no no list for pistol bullets but nickel isn't.
View Quote

Just curious as to why that is. I thought that it was more of intended purpose and use instead of specific materials. As in designed to penetrate armor.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 2:58:51 PM EST
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By molson3530:

Just curious as to why that is. I thought that it was more of intended purpose and use instead of specific materials. As in designed to penetrate armor.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By molson3530:
Originally Posted By fuksoutof87:


Steel is on the no no list for pistol bullets but nickel isn't.

Just curious as to why that is. I thought that it was more of intended purpose and use instead of specific materials. As in designed to penetrate armor.


Congress wrote it that way.

18 USC § 921(a)(17)

The term “armor piercing ammunition” means— (i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 3:00:06 PM EST
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By molson3530:

Just curious as to why that is. I thought that it was more of intended purpose and use instead of specific materials. As in designed to penetrate armor.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By molson3530:
Originally Posted By fuksoutof87:


Steel is on the no no list for pistol bullets but nickel isn't.

Just curious as to why that is. I thought that it was more of intended purpose and use instead of specific materials. As in designed to penetrate armor.


No it specifically mentions materials, fortunately because laws are made by retards, because if they just used something like "can penetrate a level II or higher vest" it would fuck over all kinds of pistol rounds and the entire concept of ar15s as pistols.

18 USC 921(a)(17):
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 3:04:42 PM EST
[#21]
I remember the thread well, basically every round he tested with the concept, including .380, was able to go through his test vests (soft vests, IIIA? can't remember the rating) except for .40 for some reason.
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 3:09:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: molson3530] [#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SageEBR:


No it specifically mentions materials, fortunately because laws are made by retards, because if they just used something like "can penetrate a level II or higher vest" it would fuck over all kinds of pistol rounds and the entire concept of ar15s as pistols.

18 USC 921(a)(17):
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
View Quote

Thanks. Learn something new every day. Disappointed that I can't have depleted uranium handgun rounds
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 3:11:49 PM EST
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
View Quote

Called swaging. Most likely predates your birth. The bullet casting guys have been doing it for years. 9mm casing can be made into 40 projectiles in a single pass with the right die
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 3:26:50 PM EST
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:
Originally Posted By torstin:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:


If was an offshoot of a thread on home made AP. I was in on that part of it. Then the member took the ball and ran with it.

It would have been awhile back but did you do something on a .22 rim fire case from a penny or something. I don't really remember the specifics and it might not even match my description but do know it was impressive.


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.


That product is how Hornady started
Link Posted: 11/24/2022 3:29:51 PM EST
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By steve2071:
My first guess was Salad Fingers guy but then OP is Salad Fingers guy.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By steve2071:
My first guess was Salad Fingers guy but then OP is Salad Fingers guy.

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
I thought it was YOU who came up with this stuff…

Link Posted: 11/25/2022 11:57:59 AM EST
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JHS:


That product is how Hornady started
View Quote


Speer as well..
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 11:59:41 AM EST
[#27]
Well looks like I make up a punch to HP it and hold the 1/8 dia rod in place.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 12:05:02 PM EST
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tobysi:
This sounds cool. Tagged.
View Quote

Link Posted: 11/25/2022 12:09:28 PM EST
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Third_Rail:
I haven't bothered with nickel in JHP but I've had a great time with sabots. I made a poor 1895 Nagant revolver holepunch a IIIa vest.

It's the main reason I'm so interested in .30SC as well. Semi auto legal AP carry gun? Yes please.

https://i.imgur.com/gWu9Pkj.jpg?1
View Quote


Remington Accelerators
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 12:31:47 PM EST
[#30]
Was that they guy that swore by the tactical wheelbarrow.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 12:35:28 PM EST
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:
Originally Posted By torstin:
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:


If was an offshoot of a thread on home made AP. I was in on that part of it. Then the member took the ball and ran with it.

It would have been awhile back but did you do something on a .22 rim fire case from a penny or something. I don't really remember the specifics and it might not even match my description but do know it was impressive.


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.

Corbin makes and sells the tools necessary to do that at home.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 5:59:56 PM EST
[#32]
Someone here on arfcom filled 45 acp rounds with lead then ?swagged? them for use in a 45-70.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:06:48 PM EST
[#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NotIssued:

this thread?
View Quote


I was looking for this thread the other day, thanks for putting up a link.

All the pictures are gone though...
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:10:55 PM EST
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Fat_McNasty:
Well looks like I make up a punch to HP it and hold the 1/8 dia rod in place.
View Quote
I wonder how much difference a solid copper round with nickle penetrator would make. I a lead round is already lighter due to the nickle rod, but the added velocity with copper could be interesting. Might be able to do pure PE lvl 3 plates
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:17:10 PM EST
[#35]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By molson3530:

Thanks. Learn something new every day. Disappointed that I can't have depleted uranium handgun rounds
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By molson3530:
Originally Posted By SageEBR:


No it specifically mentions materials, fortunately because laws are made by retards, because if they just used something like "can penetrate a level II or higher vest" it would fuck over all kinds of pistol rounds and the entire concept of ar15s as pistols.

18 USC 921(a)(17):
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

Thanks. Learn something new every day. Disappointed that I can't have depleted uranium handgun rounds


7.62x51mm DU has made it on to the market after research into it ended.

You could technically have it if you are willing to write a big enough check.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:22:22 PM EST
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SageEBR:


No it specifically mentions materials, fortunately because laws are made by retards, because if they just used something like "can penetrate a level II or higher vest" it would fuck over all kinds of pistol rounds and the entire concept of ar15s as pistols.

18 USC 921(a)(17):
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.
View Quote


There goes my idea of cutting down and reloading 9mm/.40/.45 carbide drill bits.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:25:49 PM EST
[#37]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By PWA_Commando:


I was looking for this thread the other day, thanks for putting up a link.

All the pictures are gone though...
View Quote



https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/Bullet-Swaging-Master-thread-/42-394509/
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:29:22 PM EST
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Third_Rail:Congress wrote it that way.

18 USC § 921(a)(17)
View Quote
I thought it was just illegal to "manufacture" it, meaning you're producing and selling it for commercial means to the peasants.  Making for yourself was acceptable.  But I've been wrong before.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 6:38:03 PM EST
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LoginName:


There goes my idea of cutting down and reloading 9mm/.40/.45 carbide drill bits.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LoginName:
Originally Posted By SageEBR:


No it specifically mentions materials, fortunately because laws are made by retards, because if they just used something like "can penetrate a level II or higher vest" it would fuck over all kinds of pistol rounds and the entire concept of ar15s as pistols.

18 USC 921(a)(17):
(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


There goes my idea of cutting down and reloading 9mm/.40/.45 carbide drill bits.

Or TIG electrodes.

They'd be banned too since they're made of Tungsten.
Link Posted: 11/25/2022 7:05:35 PM EST
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HappyCamel:
I wonder how much difference a solid copper round with nickle penetrator would make. I a lead round is already lighter due to the nickle rod, but the added velocity with copper could be interesting. Might be able to do pure PE lvl 3 plates
View Quote


the lead will still be in the bullet. Im thinking jacket, swaged HP then the nickel rod pressed into the HP.
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 9:04:57 AM EST
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By txgp17:
I thought it was just illegal to "manufacture" it, meaning you're producing and selling it for commercial means to the peasants.  Making for yourself was acceptable.  But I've been wrong before.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By txgp17:
Originally Posted By Third_Rail:Congress wrote it that way.

18 USC § 921(a)(17)
I thought it was just illegal to "manufacture" it, meaning you're producing and selling it for commercial means to the peasants.  Making for yourself was acceptable.  But I've been wrong before.


Nope. Manufacturing any ammunition that meets the AP definition - even if it's not for sale - is illegal without a type 10 FFL.
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 9:10:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: arowneragain] [#42]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
View Quote


I’m pretty sure that’s how Speer and Hornady bullets were started.

Edit: already covered. Oops.
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 9:11:39 AM EST
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Third_Rail:
I haven't bothered with nickel in JHP but I've had a great time with sabots. I made a poor 1895 Nagant revolver holepunch a IIIa vest.

It's the main reason I'm so interested in .30SC as well. Semi auto legal AP carry gun? Yes please.

https://i.imgur.com/gWu9Pkj.jpg?1
View Quote



With the popularity of 3D printing, I am surprised there isn't more happening with sabots
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 9:15:41 AM EST
[#44]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TX_M1:



With the popularity of 3D printing, I am surprised there isn't more happening with sabots
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TX_M1:
Originally Posted By Third_Rail:
I haven't bothered with nickel in JHP but I've had a great time with sabots. I made a poor 1895 Nagant revolver holepunch a IIIa vest.

It's the main reason I'm so interested in .30SC as well. Semi auto legal AP carry gun? Yes please.

https://i.imgur.com/gWu9Pkj.jpg?1



With the popularity of 3D printing, I am surprised there isn't more happening with sabots


I'd have to look up the invoice but these were injection molded and a couple of cents each. I have a huge quantity to mess with in 30 cal.

I haven't tried filament printing sabots for anything high velocity - just for 40mm pushers and other very low velocity things. I wonder how well various filament types would do at high velocity.
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 9:19:12 AM EST
[#45]
Academic firearm threads are why I pay for this website

I’d buy some rounds.  I have no fallacies if needing them; rather, if I can support garage ammosmithing with my dollars I will
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 6:32:22 PM EST
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By arowneragain:


I’m pretty sure that’s how Speer and Hornady bullets were started.

Edit: already covered. Oops.
View Quote

Wait, what? Can someone explain this to me?
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 6:47:00 PM EST
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tobysi:

Wait, what? Can someone explain this to me?
View Quote


during the 2nd world war. copper was in short supply. to make jackeded bullets, Speer designed a swage to build .224 dia bullets out of 22 brass.

RCBS also perused this as well.. Rock Chuck Bullet Swage..

Link Posted: 11/26/2022 6:50:04 PM EST
[#48]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HAUK3:


I recall spent 22 casings being formed into jackets for rifle projectiles.
I can’t recall the outcome.
View Quote


There used to be a whole website that sold the swaging equiptment to do that.

Corbin
http://www.corbins.com/kit-224.htm
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 6:54:32 PM EST
[#49]
I'd be surprised if that didn't affect the accuracy.  But I want to stick zippo flints in 22 LR hollow points...
Link Posted: 11/26/2022 7:40:18 PM EST
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Third_Rail:
I haven't bothered with nickel in JHP but I've had a great time with sabots. I made a poor 1895 Nagant revolver holepunch a IIIa vest.

It's the main reason I'm so interested in .30SC as well. Semi auto legal AP carry gun? Yes please.

https://i.imgur.com/gWu9Pkj.jpg?1
View Quote


I have a SW 642 in 38 spl. Apparently it has a twist of 18.5:1. So I wonder if a sabot could be 3D printed to hold a super light .223 bullet like a 40-45 grain and what sort of velocity it would push.
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