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Posted: 6/4/2022 8:23:03 PM EDT
[#1]
Lack of fuel.
 
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:11:51 PM EDT
[#2]
Even the experts have a hard time with this question:
https://www.avweb.com/flight-safety/accidents-ntsb/why-engines-quit-failures-are-avoidable/ IMHO the damn things are so miraculously reliable at this point in their evolution that it's pretty much a crapshoot. When something goes it could be anything. However, at this point in my life my favorite villain is the exhaust valve. Just dodged one of those bullets myself during the annual. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:24:45 PM EDT
[#3]
Not buying a Rotec radial is a step in the right direction.
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:35:39 PM EDT
[#4]
Bad fuel or hitting something through pilot error or bad luck.
It’s not often appreciated by private pilots, but the lack of engines isn’t your biggest problem. It’s the lack of redundancy in the other systems, including the human. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 9:59:09 PM EDT
[#5]
Flat engines are pretty solid.
Round engines? Blown cylinders, thrown rods, broken crankshaft, bad mags, bad cam, broken valves, supercharger/seals, broken prop, things of that regularly. Sometimes something weird happens. |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 10:06:50 PM EDT
[#6]
 Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 6/4/2022 10:19:15 PM EDT
[#7]
Carb ice happens a lot.
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Posted: 6/4/2022 10:24:05 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carb ice happens a lot. And on the 3rd day, God said “Let there be carb heat.” |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 10:24:30 AM EDT
[#9]
Magneto issues cause a few. I had one that was caused by 1 mag falling apart internally and causing the other one to go nuts (words from my A&P/IA partner on the plane).
Solid state mags alleviate that, but even they ain't infallible. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 1:40:43 PM EDT
[#10]
By the book to include all ADs, SB, SL, SI, all of the SIDs, POH and following the engine and accessories books the same?
Not counting unforeseen things like lightning strikes and such or operator error? With regular use (I don't know if there is a definition of regular use or not) I'm thinking a couple few hours use a week at least being regular use. It's hard for me to think of a single thing to cause an engine failure on a new 172 once outside of the break in. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 2:52:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And on the 3rd day, God said “Let there be carb heat.” Continentals, yes. Lycoming, not so much. The answer is that if maintenance is impeccable, the engine is highly unlikely to quit. That means -annual or more frequent borescope inspection of the cylinders and especially the valves -50 hour or more frequent oil changes with -close inspection filter pleats and -analysis -annual compression checks I upload my engine monitor data to Mike Busch's website. He claims his AI routine can give warning of exhaust valve failure. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 3:28:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Pilots running lean of peak.
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Posted: 6/5/2022 4:34:49 PM EDT
[#13]
I’m not entirely sure about which make/ model has the highest rate of mechanical failure but the Piper Arrow is just about off my list of airframes to get into ever again. I’ve seen, read and heard through the grapevine just too much to make me want to tempt fate
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Posted: 6/5/2022 6:13:05 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pilots running lean of peak. Bullshit myth. No problem running LoP. You need to watch all of Mike Busch's videos. They are slow (watch at 1.5x speed), but they are really great: https://resources.savvyaviation.com/ |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 6:19:37 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bullshit myth. No problem running LoP. You need to watch all of Mike Busch's videos. They are slow (watch at 1.5x speed), but they are really great: https://resources.savvyaviation.com/ Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Pilots running lean of peak. Bullshit myth. No problem running LoP. You need to watch all of Mike Busch's videos. They are slow (watch at 1.5x speed), but they are really great: https://resources.savvyaviation.com/ Where does an OEM recommend running lean of peak? I knew this would stir some feelings
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Posted: 6/5/2022 6:22:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where does an OEM recommend running lean of peak? I knew this would stir some feelings Doesn’t running lean cause overheating issues? Evap. cooling of the fuel is a component of an engine’s cooling system. Especially an air-cooled engine’s. |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 6:24:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doesn’t running lean cause overheating issues? Evap. cooling of the fuel is a component of an engine’s cooling system. Especially an air-cooled engine’s. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where does an OEM recommend running lean of peak? I knew this would stir some feelings Doesn’t running lean cause overheating issues? Evap. cooling of the fuel is a component of an engine’s cooling system. Especially an air-cooled engine’s.  Attached FileHere we go! |
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Posted: 6/5/2022 9:08:31 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryIt's why I included POH and that pilot error don't count
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Posted: 6/6/2022 12:28:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where does an OEM recommend running lean of peak? I knew this would stir some feelings Doesn’t running lean cause overheating issues? Evap. cooling of the fuel is a component of an engine’s cooling system. Especially an air-cooled engine’s. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/laugh-29.gif Here we go! So, how many hours do you have so far, running lean of peak? |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 6:51:19 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryTake you trolls back to GD where they belong 
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Posted: 6/6/2022 7:52:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, how many hours do you have so far, running lean of peak? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Where does an OEM recommend running lean of peak? I knew this would stir some feelings Doesn’t running lean cause overheating issues? Evap. cooling of the fuel is a component of an engine’s cooling system. Especially an air-cooled engine’s. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/laugh-29.gif Here we go! So, how many hours do you have so far, running lean of peak? None. I just laugh because people seem to get very passionate about it. It’s not recommended by any approved published material that I’ve seen. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 7:54:25 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None. I just laugh because people seem to get very passionate about it. It’s not recommended by any approved published material that I’ve seen. What is the incentive to run LoP? |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 8:43:35 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What is the incentive to run LoP? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: None. I just laugh because people seem to get very passionate about it. It’s not recommended by any approved published material that I’ve seen. What is the incentive to run LoP? Fuel economy. |
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Posted: 6/6/2022 8:48:59 PM EDT
[#24]
I’m amazed that for a million dollars you don’t get fuel
Injection and FADEC in every one. |
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Posted: 6/8/2022 8:49:20 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m not entirely sure about which make/ model has the highest rate of mechanical failure but the Piper Arrow is just about off my list of airframes to get into ever again. I’ve seen, read and heard through the grapevine just too much to make me want to tempt fate I see your Arrow and raise you an Apache. |
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Posted: 6/8/2022 8:52:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see your Arrow and raise you an Apache. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m not entirely sure about which make/ model has the highest rate of mechanical failure but the Piper Arrow is just about off my list of airframes to get into ever again. I’ve seen, read and heard through the grapevine just too much to make me want to tempt fate I see your Arrow and raise you an Apache. I would guess it’s from being common time builders/trainers. Although apaches do seem to becoming a little more rare in the skys. So ugly -shoot I was thinking Aztec, not Apache |
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Posted: 6/8/2022 10:15:58 PM EDT
[#27]
I had a close friend of mine go in a couple years ago because the kid at the FBO filled his plane with Jet A rather than 110LL
https://www.tampabay.com/news/hillsborough/2021/08/25/wrong-fuel-blamed-in-tampa-surgeons-plane-crash-ntsb-report-confirms/ |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 7:37:01 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pilots running lean of peak. This will increase heat and piston damage over time. lean makes more power and better economy |
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Posted: 6/9/2022 10:37:04 AM EDT
[#29]
Lean of peak is not a problem. It's misunderstood by many.
Peak, this means Peak EGT. Peak EGT is where the problems arise. And it's only an issue at high power settings. Peak EGT at low power settings isn't harmful, and neither is lean of peak. Lean of peak literally means that it's running cooler than at peak. Same with rich of peak.  This article does a good job of explaining it: https://www.mcfarlaneaviation.com/media/documents/alcor-egt-nutshell-06-14-2010.pdf The only thing i've heard being an issue is if your fuel metering has too much variance between cylinders, like what you could expect with a carbureted engine. If you have 3 cylinders running at lean of peak, but the 4th cylinder is drawing just a touch more fuel than the others, then that 4th cylinder could be running at peak EGT, and at high power settings that could become a problem. But if you can monitor all of your CHT's then you can run lean of peak at cruise if you want to and you know what you're looking at with your engine instrumentation. Flight schools just teach everyone to run rich of peak because it's a little more fool-proof. There's a wide range that's safe when running rich of peak, and lean of peak can be safe but the mixture needs to be set just right. When running lean of peak the window between running too hot (too rich), and the engine sputtering and losing lots of power due to being too lean, is very narrow. |
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Posted: 6/10/2022 12:30:34 AM EDT
[#30]
FPNI
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Posted: 6/11/2022 8:15:03 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FPNI We had a 172 end up short of the runway a couple of weeks ago. Luckily the pilot walked away. It was a rental plane from a different local airport. He called an emergency for "No oil pressure" and dead sticked it in. Ripped the nose gear off and bent the fuck out of everything firewall fwd. I walked out and looked at the plane the next day... There was a GIANT hole on the side of the case with a rod poking out. The best part??? There wasn't a drop of oil to be found anywhere. No giant messes. Nothing in the crankcase. Nothing on the belly. The aircraft had been serviced just 14 hours prior. My opinion ??? None of the fuckers that flew those 14 hours ever checked the oil. Over that amount of time it just slowly used what was in the crankcase... The even better part ??? The owner of said rental had just massively increased his hull coverage but the increase hadn't taken effect yet... |
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Posted: 6/11/2022 9:17:04 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m amazed that for a million dollars you don’t get fuel Injection and FADEC in every one. This is the truth. It's 2022 for pete's sake. FADEC = Farewell All Dumb Engine Controls. Jet-A FADEC is wonderful to fly, can protect the powerplant. |
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Posted: 6/13/2022 8:47:03 PM EDT
[#33]
What are the specific mechanics behind burnt exhaust valves and how can they lead to a shutdown?
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Posted: 6/13/2022 10:37:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are the specific mechanics behind burnt exhaust valves and how can they lead to a shutdown? Usually due to a failure of the valve rotator. There is a brilliant video on this that just came out: https://www.eaa.org/Videos/Webinars/Engines-and-Firewall-Forward/6307195667112 EAA members only right now, but Mike's videos normally wind up on his Savvy Aviator YouTube channel about a month or so after their original air date. His sticky valve webinar is on the YT channel and that's a very good one, too. |
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Posted: 6/14/2022 1:10:52 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We had a 172 end up short of the runway a couple of weeks ago. Luckily the pilot walked away. It was a rental plane from a different local airport. He called an emergency for "No oil pressure" and dead sticked it in. Ripped the nose gear off and bent the fuck out of everything firewall fwd. I walked out and looked at the plane the next day... There was a GIANT hole on the side of the case with a rod poking out. The best part??? There wasn't a drop of oil to be found anywhere. No giant messes. Nothing in the crankcase. Nothing on the belly. The aircraft had been serviced just 14 hours prior. My opinion ??? None of the fuckers that flew those 14 hours ever checked the oil. Over that amount of time it just slowly used what was in the crankcase... The even better part ??? The owner of said rental had just massively increased his hull coverage but the increase hadn't taken effect yet... I would always religiously sump my tanks, look in them and check my oil. For one of my planes, it required a screwdriver to open the panel to get to the dipstick. I'd landed, gotten gas, and decided I didn't want to take the time to get the screwdriver and then burn my fingers on the dipstick. I go to take off and wasn't making full RPM and MP, glance down, see low oil pressure, abort the takeoff. Taxi back. Sure enough. 6qts had blown out of the engine (I still had two remaining). The first leg had been at high power settings and way up in the flight levels for a piston engine, so the turbo was working hard. Literally one of very few times that I didn't check my oil. I also discovered that the engine monitor didn't warn of low oil pressure below 10psi even though the green was much higher, so reconfigured to add an alert. Fortunately, the engine checked out fine and, with the replacement of the turbocharger, all seemed to be well. Complacency kills. My grandfather, a ww2 fighter pilot who flew most of the US fighters of the war and was invited to be a test pilot afterward, spent the last half of his life scarred up like Tom Cruise in Vanilla Sky because he didn't check his fuel one morning, even though he'd checked it the night before. Someone flew the plane or stole fuel. A close friend with over 10,000 hours of GA, who taught all of us acro and owned an L39 perished in an Aerostar that had been fueled with Jet-A instead of 100LL. Check your oil. Check your fuel levels and sump your fuel. Box your controls when you taxi. With ADS-B, weather related accidents are far more rare.  "UNLESS YOU FLY WITH SAFETY" WWII PILOT TRAINING FILM PLANE CRASHES 57184 |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 1:58:30 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is the truth. It's 2022 for pete's sake. FADEC = Farewell All Dumb Engine Controls. Jet-A FADEC is wonderful to fly, can protect the powerplant. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I’m amazed that for a million dollars you don’t get fuel Injection and FADEC in every one. This is the truth. It's 2022 for pete's sake. FADEC = Farewell All Dumb Engine Controls. Jet-A FADEC is wonderful to fly, can protect the powerplant. Just started seeing new Lycoming TIO-540 engines with factory installed electronic ignition in the last year or two. One electronic ignition unit, and one standard magneto. From what was explained to me, if you want to replace the remaining magneto with a second electronic ignition unit, you will have to install a dual buss electrical system in the airframe, along with an emergency battery, which will require either an STC or a Field Approval for the airframe modification to the electrical system (just doing the single electronic ignition doesn't require any extra paperwork, since the factory added it to their documents for the engine as an approved part). Electronic fuel injection seems to still be close to mythical status. |
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Posted: 7/25/2022 9:24:51 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Usually due to a failure of the valve rotator. There is a brilliant video on this that just came out: https://www.eaa.org/Videos/Webinars/Engines-and-Firewall-Forward/6307195667112 EAA members only right now, but Mike's videos normally wind up on his Savvy Aviator YouTube channel about a month or so after their original air date. His sticky valve webinar is on the YT channel and that's a very good one, too. The burned valves video is now on Youtube:  Failure to Rotate - Burned Valves Here's the sticky valves video:  Why Valves Stick The mag videos are great, too. Between mag's and valves that covers a lot of sick and broken engines. |
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