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Posted: 1/28/2021 12:56:59 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: 16 years old, I hear water rushing in the basement and water all over the floor. The catch pan underneath was puncured on the side opposite of the floor drain by one of the feet from the water heater and water leaked out there vs. down the tube and into drain. Ugh. 75 gallon, propane, I believe its a "power vent" style as it has a fan box on top that runs and pumps out PVC exhust pipe. So, replace with another tank heater or tankless? Its my wife and 3 girls so this discussion doesn't have a lot of time behind it. Second question, install myself (esp tank) or call plumber? Have you run out of hot water before? If yes. Tankless is in your future. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 12:57:19 AM EDT
[#2]
Former plumber here. Tank. For many reasons.
No need to upgrade your gas line, yearly maintenance, no hot water sandwich (look it up), less delay in getting hot water to your faucet because there's no startup delay, etc. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:00:33 AM EDT
[#3]
Mine is 20 years old and going strong....waiting for this to happen to me some day...
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:01:34 AM EDT
[#4]
If you’re reasonably handy, a one-for-one swap is pretty quick and straight forward.
I’m in the middle of a tankless retrofit right now. There is little to be gained by going tankless in most retrofit cases. I am primarily going tankless to free up room in my garage. I also have the luxury of time and the capability to do the job myself. If I were in your position, installing a new tank heater of the same design would be a no-brainer. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:06:26 AM EDT
[#5]
You going to want a condensing tankless unit to use you PVC vent. Rinnai RU180iP would be a good place to start looking. I installed one of these last year and it's a nice unit.
https://www.amazon.com/Rinnai-RU180IP-Water-heaters/dp/B07CVPJ4RR/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8 |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:07:01 AM EDT
[#6]
I had a place with a nat gas tankless, and other than having the damn thing on the far end of the house, meaning it took a while to get hot water to the other end, it was flawless.
Mine replaced a electric tank, and the tank was more centrally located. Being this was Florida, they set the tankless on the exterior near the gas meter. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:09:51 AM EDT
[#7]
You're a member. Use your member powers to look up recent old threads on the same exact question. This and which wash-machine, and which refrig to buy are the usuals.If the search for members is as bad for you as it is for none-members then let me know. I'm about to become a member and will expect Goat Boy to contact me if I need restitution for such discomforts.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:11:49 AM EDT
[#8]
Tankless without question.
After 15 years of tankless with a wife and daughter, I'd never go back. period. It was more costly up front; but I'd never go back to the days of running out of hot water and paying to heat water you're not using. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:11:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Hybrid
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:30:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Replace with the same
if the the heater is in a finished area or an area you don't want to be flooded add a pan and flood stop |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:31:22 AM EDT
[#11]
Heat pump hot water. Way better than LP...
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:33:48 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former plumber here. Tank. For many reasons. No need to upgrade your gas line, yearly maintenance, no hot water sandwich (look it up), less delay in getting hot water to your faucet because there's no startup delay, etc. I didn’t upgrade my gas line, don’t yearly maintain it, and don’t have hot water sandwiches. I get instant hot water (like 4 seconds) and it never runs out of hot water. Absolutely love it, and have for the 5 years I’ve had it. I also have a tankless at our vacation home that’s 10-12 years old and works flawlessly, minus the instant hot water takes about 10 seconds if not used for a few hours. ETA - both are propane. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:44:08 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't upgrade my gas line, don't yearly maintain it, and don't have hot water sandwiches. I get instant hot water (like 4 seconds) and it never runs out of hot water. Absolutely love it, and have for the 5 years I've had it. I also have a tankless at our vacation home that's 10-12 years old and works flawlessly, minus the instant hot water takes about 10 seconds if not used for a few hours. ETA - both are propane. You didn't have to upgrade your gas line because you have propane. Your vacation home has lasted 10 to 12 years but how often is it being used? Tank vs tankless upfront cost What was your break even point? |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 1:53:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former plumber here. Tank. For many reasons. No need to upgrade your gas line, yearly maintenance, no hot water sandwich (look it up), less delay in getting hot water to your faucet because there's no startup delay, etc. Startup delay is REAL!!!! |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 2:00:08 AM EDT
[#15]
They've probably gotten better or it was just a fluke, but I really hated the tankless at my previous workplace 15 years ago. Worked great when you hadn't used it in a little while, then if you shut the water off and turned it back on within a few minutes, the fucker wouldn't re-light. Highly annoying.
It's extremely rare that we ever run out of hot water at my house. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 2:07:42 AM EDT
[#16]
I wouldn’t do tankless north of the mason dixon line. Groundwater temps are not favorable half the year.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 2:13:56 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind. You didn't have to upgrade your gas line because you have propane. Your vacation home has lasted 10 to 12 years but how often is it being used? Tank vs tankless upfront cost What was your break even point? Vacation home isn’t used very often (20 times a year), but the tankless units (2 of them) are used more I’d guess. It has heated floors (tile/water) that we keep at 60 degrees all year. We only have 1 unit at my main home and the main home is twice the size (guessing heated floors need more tankless/propane). Upfront cost, maybe $1000 more? I don’t know. But NEVER running out of hot water, was worth about $10,000 more than what I paid Family of 4 with a teenage daughter. Also, our master shower has multiple heads in it. It’s nice to use a few of them at once with your wife with zero worry of cold water coming 
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:09:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Gas Tankless all the way. More efficient, runs only when you need the hot water, never runs out in your bath or shower. Easy to plumb in if you are not afraid to either sweat copper or go with threaded brass with the near fittings to meet building codes.
I swapped both my old NG boiler AND my NG water heater for one tankless which both heats my house and provides domestic hot water. Saved a lot of gas, freed-up a nice room now my laundry room, simplified my plumbing. And a tankless unit is easy to replace by the home-owner (if just a smidgeon competent) if it breaks. I've been tankless going on 11 years. 
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:19:10 AM EDT
[#19]
I love our Takagi tankless water heater.. My dad and I installed the plumbing for it ourselves and it has been problem free for probably close to 15 years with absolutely zero maintenance. While we were at it we plumbed a loop in for radiant heat in the mudroom which was cold as hell in the winter. I suppose I should flush it with vinegar though but I never plumbed in the appropriate valve, etc., maybe someday. I highly recommend them, never runs out of water and only takes about 8-10 seconds or so longer to get hot water at the faucets over the old water heater.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:26:11 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: So, replace with another tank heater or tankless? Its my wife and 3 girls You answered your own question. 4 women? Tankless. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:27:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Tankless and water softener.
Just spend the money and enjoy. Probably 5k installed. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 3:57:40 AM EDT
[#22]
7 of us in the house. Went tankless with water softener 3 years ago. $2500 installed for all. Just do it, you'll never regret it.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 4:06:52 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 7 of us in the house. Went tankless with water softener 3 years ago. $2500 installed for all. Just do it, you'll never regret it. This. But installed myself. Never went back. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 5:21:10 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn’t do tankless north of the mason dixon line. Groundwater temps are not favorable half the year. Well, you’re wrong, so......... PS: Alaska is slightly north of M-D. Tankless convert. Didn’t want it. Won’t go back to a tank now. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 6:35:32 AM EDT
[#25]
I went with a tank, but my household consists of me and my brother. We can do short showers (though I take two a day on work days), and we start work hours apart from each other.
It works great. It even acts as a dehumidifier, which for the winter kind of sucks, but in the summer it helped keep my basement awesome. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:04:14 AM EDT
[#26]
I'm a plumbing contractor and install both. In any new construction home I work on I always install a tankless. When replacing a water heater most home owners opt for a direct replacement of there water heater due to the extra expense of installing a tankless. With a tankless you'll have to upgrade your gas line for the larger btu's that a tankless uses. As mentioned there is also the delay in getting hot water and the cold water sandwich. Thosr issues can be reduced if you install a unit with an integral circulator and buffer tank. In the long run you'll save money with a tankless, especially with propane. But a direct replacement of your current water heater will be faster and less expensive.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:08:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Mine is 20 years old and going strong....waiting for this to happen to me some day... |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:10:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former plumber here. Tank. For many reasons. No need to upgrade your gas line, yearly maintenance, no hot water sandwich (look it up), less delay in getting hot water to your faucet because there's no startup delay, etc. Replace it now. Don't wait. It's going to be less expensive now than when you have to find a plumber on the weekend. And you won't have to spend any time or money cleaning up a mess from a leak. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:17:42 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Mine is 20 years old and going strong....waiting for this to happen to me some day... If it looks like it’s not going to last, replace it in the summer on your time frame so that it will be a less expensive repair. You can likely get one on sale. Way better than getting the only model the plumber has in stock in an emergency. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:18:39 AM EDT
[#30]
Tankless is overrated. But if so, get a Navien or Rinnai
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:26:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Tank water heater less than $500 and gtg for another 15-20 years
Honestly if your family of 4 can't get by with 40 or 50 gallons of hot water? You are doing something wrong. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 10:12:57 AM EDT
[#32]
I replaced mine last year with another tank version because l could easily do it myself and it was cheaper.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 10:26:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Really appreciate all of the inputs (well, except for one, but I'm a big boy) and it confirms a lot of WHAT I HAVE ALREADY READ on ARFCOM, but adds my particular situation/circumstances to the topic. I did a lot of searching last night for a direct replacement and all of the local big box stores have very limited choices or back ordered. But my outreach to the plumber who installed our plumbing when we build the house 16 years ago, then went out on his own and did some other work for us years ago....called and I'm going with that trusted relationship vs. hit or miss on someone new. He is going to check tank vs. tankless...but is aware of the limited choices in stock due to our config (propane, power vent, 75 gal). He has had very good experiences with tankless in our situation...hard water, water softener and I'm leaning that way...but I think its going to come down to what's available. I also like the the idea of tankless because I should be able to relocate it and free up some space in a high traffic area where the current tank heater is.
Thanks again, I'll update as things progress so others can benefit. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 6:51:47 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote for SENSEI RU199iP Super High Efficiency Plus condensing tankless water heater from Rinnai, $4,200 installed. Recirculate pump model $400 more. Is that worth it? Does the app/wi-fi/smarthome capability add value?
DYI option off the table as limited to no supply available locally and the tribe is not going to remain under control until early to mid Feb with no hot water. I suggested some John Wayne movies toughen up, but no deal. Woman. I need to make a go/no-go decision by tonight at 9 pm ET for an afternoon install tomorrow. Cold water only kinda sucks, esp when its 25F outside. Thoughts? @madcap3k @ScooterInVegas @BlackTaco @Bnknj @armoredsaint |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 6:54:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Tankless of you can afford it. $5-6k vs $600 for a new tank.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:02:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quote for SENSEI RU199iP Super High Efficiency Plus condensing tankless water heater from Rinnai, $4,200 installed. Recirculate pump model $400 more. Is that worth it? Does the app/wi-fi/smarthome capability add value? That is right around the quotes I got for the same unit. If you have a long run from the heater to shower, the recirc feature is worth it. WiFi value? I rather not have that feature, but that’s me. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:07:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Tank, easy maintenance
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:10:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former plumber here. Tank. For many reasons. No need to upgrade your gas line, yearly maintenance, no hot water sandwich (look it up), less delay in getting hot water to your faucet because there's no startup delay, etc. This. Tankless is a waste of money that make liberals feel good. I did serious research on this and tankless is a rip-off. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:38:41 PM EDT
[#39]
I considered a Tankless, didn't feel it was worth it and required maintenance.
Go get a Bradford White Defender |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:42:35 PM EDT
[#40]
Went with tankless and it works great. Yearly maintenance is generally only 15 minutes active, and an hour or so inactive. Hook up hoses and pump in bucket to bypass valves, add descaler, plug in pump. Reverse the process when it's descaled. Also clean the air intake for debris.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:46:11 PM EDT
[#41]
Having a tank gives you some SHTF water if ever needed.
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Posted: 1/28/2021 7:56:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Former plumber here. Tank. For many reasons. No need to upgrade your gas line, yearly maintenance, no hot water sandwich (look it up), less delay in getting hot water to your faucet because there's no startup delay, etc. Plus it's a source of potable water in the case of a natural disaster that cuts off your regular water supply. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 8:12:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Keep in mind. You didn't have to upgrade your gas line because you have propane. Your vacation home has lasted 10 to 12 years but how often is it being used? Tank vs tankless upfront cost What was your break even point? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I didn't upgrade my gas line, don't yearly maintain it, and don't have hot water sandwiches. I get instant hot water (like 4 seconds) and it never runs out of hot water. Absolutely love it, and have for the 5 years I've had it. I also have a tankless at our vacation home that's 10-12 years old and works flawlessly, minus the instant hot water takes about 10 seconds if not used for a few hours. ETA - both are propane. You didn't have to upgrade your gas line because you have propane. Your vacation home has lasted 10 to 12 years but how often is it being used? Tank vs tankless upfront cost What was your break even point? I didn't upgrade my gas line (natural gas) I don't get the sandwich I have done zero maintenance Still going strong after 13 years This is in a primary residence with four people, one being a teenage daughter. My only complaint is yes, it does take longer for the hot water to get to the faucet than it did with the tank it replaced. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 8:15:17 PM EDT
[#44]
If you're a DIY guy and have a little time, I'd switch to tankless. I imagine you could get one from online within a couple days.
On my 11 gpm tankless I had to install both intake and exhaust vents, 3" pvc. Adding another vent pipe will probably be the hardest part of the job. My gas line required 3/4" with about a 70' run to the tank. Yours might be as simple as adding an extension to what you already have with some flexible line. Anchor the unit to the wall and reroute the plumbing with PEX. That can be fairly simple even if adding a softener. Buy the tankless water heater valve kit. I'd be surprised if you can find anybody that could get a unit like that installed on short notice. If time is your main priority then your simplest solution will be a direct replacement. |
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Posted: 1/28/2021 8:17:03 PM EDT
[#45]
In Ohio?
I assume like WI the water comes out of the ground at somewhere around 36 degrees most the winter, and the mains freeze during real cold spells. If that's the case, you need to heat the water about 100 degrees or more at your flow rate. You might be looking at TWO tankless heaters in daisy chain to get that. Look up what the delta degrees per flow is before thinking of this. I have NEVER seen a tankless heater in WI except in work related "back shop sink" type situations. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 10:22:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In Ohio? I assume like WI the water comes out of the ground at somewhere around 36 degrees most the winter, and the mains freeze during real cold spells. If that's the case, you need to heat the water about 100 degrees or more at your flow rate. You might be looking at TWO tankless heaters in daisy chain to get that. Look up what the delta degrees per flow is before thinking of this. I have NEVER seen a tankless heater in WI except in work related "back shop sink" type situations. ETA: For others in the future, I at first almost totally dismissed the recirculate option out of hand, but after talking to plumber and then doing my own research about how it works, it makes total sense. Add in the app (and link to your home automation system for ease of use) and either scheduled and/or self initiated recirculate events should really minimize the delay. Happened to have some friends over last night for a kids birthday party and they commented on their experience, in a house of similar size, and they were adamant about spending the extra $400 for recirculation pump (and wi-fi option included too) when I explained it and asked for their experiences. Finally, I also found out that this model is eligible for a $300 federal tax credit due to its very high efficiency (~97%). Plus $100 rebate = $400 which I'm sure is no coincidence. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 10:37:39 AM EDT
[#47]
If you get a quote for each, that might give you an easy answer.
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Posted: 1/29/2021 12:43:45 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you get a quote for each, that might give you an easy answer. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 12:56:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Tank.
More cost effective. Little yearly maintenance. No added electronics, igniter, venting, etc. If you go thankless put in the extra valves and fittings to descale every year with an external pump and hose. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 1:45:21 PM EDT
[#50]
What is the difference between the condense and not condense unit and which is better
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