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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:51:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So much concentrated derp in this post. "We liked ISIS when they were going to depose Assad"? ISIS never took any significant actions against Assad; they were too busy fighting the Syrians we actually backed against Assad. "Trump had our military beat back isis in Iraq to push them west back into Syria, where we want them to continue fighting the Syrian government"? Yeah, no. US backed forces pushed back ISIS in Syria and Iraq at the same time. 'Shia militias were our allies and the most effective force against ISIS'? Just wrong. While SMGs were fighting the same people we were, no one thought they were our allies. Well, I’m not claiming to be an expert. But I do recall clearly articles about Isis fighters being treated for wounds and then released to keep fighting by our “biggest ally”. That would tell me that we supported their actions, no matter what the rhetoric was. We pushed Isis back in Syria as well, not just Iraq. That’s true, if I remember correctly. We pushed them back towards the Syrian government’s forces and Damascus. There was a lot of positive press for the White Helmets, who were allied with Al Qaeda. Even the chemical attacks supposedly carried out by Assad were not in the end the clear cut case of genocide the western press told us it was. Bunch of OPCW people on the ground there turned into whistleblowers and said the investigation was a sham. That the chemical weapons were planted on the ground. Which would mean that the Sunni headchoppers did it themselves, most likely. “The Syrians we actually backed against Assad”? Who were they, exactly? The “moderate rebels”? The ones that were clearly linked to isis? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:55:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I’m not claiming to be an expert. But I do recall clearly articles about Isis fighters being treated for wounds and then released to keep fighting by our “biggest ally”. That would tell me that we supported their actions, no matter what the rhetoric was. We pushed Isis back in Syria as well, not just Iraq. That’s true, if I remember correctly. We pushed them back towards the Syrian government’s forces and Damascus. There was a lot of positive press for the White Helmets, who were allied with Al Qaeda. Even the chemical attacks supposedly carried out by Assad were not in the end the clear cut case of genocide the western press told us it was. Bunch of OPCW people on the ground there turned into whistleblowers and said the investigation was a sham. That the chemical weapons were planted on the ground. Which would mean that the Sunni headchoppers did it themselves, most likely. “The Syrians we actually backed against Assad”? Who were they, exactly? The “moderate rebels”? The ones that were clearly linked to isis? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So much concentrated derp in this post. "We liked ISIS when they were going to depose Assad"? ISIS never took any significant actions against Assad; they were too busy fighting the Syrians we actually backed against Assad. "Trump had our military beat back isis in Iraq to push them west back into Syria, where we want them to continue fighting the Syrian government"? Yeah, no. US backed forces pushed back ISIS in Syria and Iraq at the same time. 'Shia militias were our allies and the most effective force against ISIS'? Just wrong. While SMGs were fighting the same people we were, no one thought they were our allies. Well, I’m not claiming to be an expert. But I do recall clearly articles about Isis fighters being treated for wounds and then released to keep fighting by our “biggest ally”. That would tell me that we supported their actions, no matter what the rhetoric was. We pushed Isis back in Syria as well, not just Iraq. That’s true, if I remember correctly. We pushed them back towards the Syrian government’s forces and Damascus. There was a lot of positive press for the White Helmets, who were allied with Al Qaeda. Even the chemical attacks supposedly carried out by Assad were not in the end the clear cut case of genocide the western press told us it was. Bunch of OPCW people on the ground there turned into whistleblowers and said the investigation was a sham. That the chemical weapons were planted on the ground. Which would mean that the Sunni headchoppers did it themselves, most likely. “The Syrians we actually backed against Assad”? Who were they, exactly? The “moderate rebels”? The ones that were clearly linked to isis? Understand the timeframe you're referencing. White Helmets and Isis were allied to the USA because of Obama and the State Department. They were never the "good guys" and "we" never supported their actions. Syria was an Op that didn't pan out the same as Egypt and Libya. It turned into a quagmire that the DNC and their allies had no problem converting and exploiting as a power/cash generating asset on the backs of American taxpayers. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 12:59:04 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I’m not claiming to be an expert. But I do recall clearly articles about Isis fighters being treated for wounds and then released to keep fighting by our “biggest ally”. That would tell me that we supported their actions, no matter what the rhetoric was. We pushed Isis back in Syria as well, not just Iraq. That’s true, if I remember correctly. We pushed them back towards the Syrian government’s forces and Damascus. There was a lot of positive press for the White Helmets, who were allied with Al Qaeda. Even the chemical attacks supposedly carried out by Assad were not in the end the clear cut case of genocide the western press told us it was. Bunch of OPCW people on the ground there turned into whistleblowers and said the investigation was a sham. That the chemical weapons were planted on the ground. Which would mean that the Sunni headchoppers did it themselves, most likely. “The Syrians we actually backed against Assad”? Who were they, exactly? The “moderate rebels”? The ones that were clearly linked to isis? I'd sure hope you're not claiming to be an expert if you think that ISIS and Israel ever shared a border. US forces drove ISIS in Syria southeast, towards the border with Iraq. Have you considered the possibility that you have no idea what you're talking about? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 1:01:05 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Understand the timeframe you're referencing. White Helmets and Isis were allied to the USA because of Obama and the State Department. They were never the "good guys" and "we" never supported their actions. Syria was an Op that didn't pan out the same as Egypt and Libya. It turned into a quagmire that the DNC and their allies had no problem converting and exploiting as a power/cash generating asset on the backs of American taxpayers. No argument that they weren’t really our friends. I guess I should have been clearer and called them something like “groups we temporarily shared political goals with” or something. I know for a fact that lots of positive media spin was aimed at lionizing the White Helmets. I took part in some of it. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 1:05:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd sure hope you're not claiming to be an expert if you think that ISIS and Israel ever shared a border. US forces drove ISIS in Syria southeast, towards the border with Iraq. Have you considered the possibility that you have no idea what you're talking about? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-reportedly-providing-direct-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1.5485794 That’s just a couple links from the first page of a simple search. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 2:02:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Remind the people of the war against EastAsia! Schedule the "2 minutes of Hate". Film of Goldstein this evening?
Who knew that 50% of high school classmates would regard "1984" as a training manual? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 2:37:00 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-giving-secret-aid-syrian-rebels-bashar-al-assad-golah-heights-hezbollah-fursan-al-joulan-a7797151.html https://m.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Israel-treating-al-Qaida-fighters-wounded-in-Syria-civil-war-393862 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-reportedly-providing-direct-aid-to-syrian-rebels-1.5485794 That’s just a couple links from the first page of a simple search. Do you think that all Syrian rebels are ISIS? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:02:00 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, I’m not claiming to be an expert. But I do recall clearly articles about Isis fighters being treated for wounds and then released to keep fighting by our “biggest ally”. That would tell me that we supported their actions, no matter what the rhetoric was. We pushed Isis back in Syria as well, not just Iraq. That’s true, if I remember correctly. We pushed them back towards the Syrian government’s forces and Damascus. There was a lot of positive press for the White Helmets, who were allied with Al Qaeda. Even the chemical attacks supposedly carried out by Assad were not in the end the clear cut case of genocide the western press told us it was. Bunch of OPCW people on the ground there turned into whistleblowers and said the investigation was a sham. That the chemical weapons were planted on the ground. Which would mean that the Sunni headchoppers did it themselves, most likely. “The Syrians we actually backed against Assad”? Who were they, exactly? The “moderate rebels”? The ones that were clearly linked to isis? There were no moderate rebels, a mix of foreign fighters and Al Nusra Al Qaeda militias that occasionally switched sides to ISIS. White Helmets were mostly Al Nusra backed by the Netherlands, Brits and Soros funded groups Avaaz and Purpose. Our State Department even kicked out one of their leaders attending a White Helmets gala here in the states for having “connections to extremist groups” lol... |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:04:02 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you think that all Syrian rebels are ISIS? Nah. Some are directly or indirectly Al Qaeda too. But they do seem to share a love of killing non-fundamentalists and Americans, like they did for years when the US fought them in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other places. That whole 9/11 thing where "some people did something" kinda soured me from wanting to differentiate the radical islamists too much. Do you feel differently about radical fundamentalists? Like Ilhan Omar does? Guess I'm ignorant for just putting Isis and Al Qaeda in the same pile as far as enemies goes. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:18:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah. Some are directly or indirectly Al Qaeda too. But they do seem to share a love of killing non-fundamentalists and Americans, like they did for years when the US fought them in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other places. That whole 9/11 thing where "some people did something" kinda soured me from wanting to differentiate the radical islamists too much. Do you feel differently about radical fundamentalists? Like Ilhan Omar does? Guess I'm ignorant for just putting Isis and Al Qaeda in the same pile as far as enemies goes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Nah. Some are directly or indirectly Al Qaeda too. But they do seem to share a love of killing non-fundamentalists and Americans, like they did for years when the US fought them in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other places. That whole 9/11 thing where "some people did something" kinda soured me from wanting to differentiate the radical islamists too much. Do you feel differently about radical fundamentalists? Like Ilhan Omar does? Guess I'm ignorant for just putting Isis and Al Qaeda in the same pile as far as enemies goes. Lol. "I ain't got no time for learnin about them different groups, and if you do you're probably an Ilhan Omar fan". If you think being ignorant is a virtue, then keep on keeping on I guess. Quoted: There were no moderate rebels, a mix of foreign fighters and Al Nusra Al Qaeda militias that occasionally switched sides to ISIS. White Helmets were mostly Al Nusra backed by the Netherlands, Brits and Soros funded groups Avaaz and Purpose. Our State Department even kicked out one of their leaders attending a White Helmets gala here in the states for having “connections to extremist groups” lol... Where do the SDF and TFSA fall in your expert analysis? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:21:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. "I ain't got no time for learnin about them different groups, and if you do you're probably an Ilhan Omar fan". If you think being ignorant is a virtue, then keep on keeping on I guess. Where do the SDF and TFSA fall in your expert analysis? Please, do educate us. What is the proper way to look at this situation? Just sniping away with substance-free replies doesn't add much. Tell us why overthrowing Assad and replacing him with Sunni headchoppers is a good idea. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:23:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do the SDF and TFSA fall in your expert analysis? Yeah, no shit. Anyone who thinks he can summarize the Syrian insurgency in less than 2 pages, 8 point font single spaced is laughable ill informed. Sadly, anyone in DC eyes glaze over past 140 characters. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:24:21 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please, do educate us. What is the proper way to look at this situation? Just sniping away with substance-free replies doesn't add much. Tell us why overthrowing Assad and replacing him with Sunni headchoppers is a good idea. Ask Assad. He was the one who invited these Sunnis into Iraq, supported them, then jailed them, then released them to fight. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:29:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please, do educate us. What is the proper way to look at this situation? Just sniping away with substance-free replies doesn't add much. Tell us why overthrowing Assad and replacing him with Sunni headchoppers is a good idea. And while we’re at talking all strategy and whatnot, why was normalizing WMD use a good strategy? Now, I know you didn’t support Obama’s Syrian policy, which frankly made no sense outside of Ben Rhodes’ head. That said, we should have crushed the Syrian government for its WMD use as a warning to others. We should and did crush IS where we could. That was mostly us, with the Russians impotently bombing empty and not so empty towns. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:32:09 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, no shit. Anyone who thinks he can summarize the Syrian insurgency in less than 2 pages, 8 point font single spaced is laughable ill informed. Sadly, anyone in DC eyes glaze over past 140 characters. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where do the SDF and TFSA fall in your expert analysis? Yeah, no shit. Anyone who thinks he can summarize the Syrian insurgency in less than 2 pages, 8 point font single spaced is laughable ill informed. Sadly, anyone in DC eyes glaze over past 140 characters.  |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:34:00 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please, do educate us. What is the proper way to look at this situation? Just sniping away with substance-free replies doesn't add much. Tell us why overthrowing Assad and replacing him with Sunni headchoppers is a good idea. Sweet straw man bro. Do you want me to explain the actual history of the Syrian Civil War to you so you can sound a little less ignorant, or are you asking where we should go from here? The first would take quite a bit of time; time which would probably be wasted given your disdain for nuance. As for the second, I don't know that there is a right way to proceed; the shit show Obama left behind has only bad options. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:36:11 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ask Assad. He was the one who invited these Sunnis into Iraq, supported them, then jailed them, then released them to fight. Apparently diversity isn't their strength in Syria.  I'm no Assad apologist, but the dude did seem to tolerate a plurality of ethnicities and religions in a way that others (cough, cough Saudi Arabia) does not. I'm sure there's authentic atrocities that have been committed by the Syrian government at some point. But is that any different from the other regimes, some of which we still support? My point isn't to defend the indefensible, but to instead suggest that our blood and treasure would be better left unspent in the ME and saved for a potential war with China. China's laughing at us as we get bogged down in endless conflicts in the region. They profit from our loss, just as they have from Covid. Do you have a link where I can read up on how Assad invited the Sunni radicals into Syria? I'm genuinely curious. Did they arrive as refugees or were they already a large ethnic group there, as is the case with Iraq and its Sunni minority? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:43:42 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sweet straw man bro. Do you want me to explain the actual history of the Syrian Civil War to you so you can sound a little less ignorant, or are you asking where we should go from here? The first would take quite a bit of time; time which would probably be wasted given your disdain for nuance. As for the second, I don't know that there is a right way to proceed; the shit show Obama left behind has only bad options. You could have just written "no". Woulda been faster. My disdain for nuance? Like the super-important difference between Al Qaeda and Isis as it relates to the US leaving Syria? Nice. I agree that the Obama Admin caused this, btw. The refugee crisis in Europe too. Hillary and Obama were the primary culprits, as far as I'm concerned. Trump tried to get us out, and the minute he mentioned the word "withdrawal" in regard to Syria he was attacked non-stop by the "peace-loving" left and the Rino crowd. The media told us it would be a gift to Iran, and that getting out of Syria would betray the Kurds. If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:51:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could have just written "no". Woulda been faster. My disdain for nuance? Like the super-important difference between Al Qaeda and Isis as it relates to the US leaving Syria? Nice. I agree that the Obama Admin caused this, btw. The refugee crisis in Europe too. Hillary and Obama were the primary culprits, as far as I'm concerned. Trump tried to get us out, and the minute he mentioned the word "withdrawal" in regard to Syria he was attacked non-stop by the "peace-loving" left and the Rino crowd. The media told us it would be a gift to Iran, and that getting out of Syria would betray the Kurds. If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it? Why do you think we are bombing Iran backed rebels in Syria? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:54:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could have just written "no". Woulda been faster. My disdain for nuance? Like the super-important difference between Al Qaeda and Isis as it relates to the US leaving Syria? Nice. I agree that the Obama Admin caused this, btw. The refugee crisis in Europe too. Hillary and Obama were the primary culprits, as far as I'm concerned. Trump tried to get us out, and the minute he mentioned the word "withdrawal" in regard to Syria he was attacked non-stop by the "peace-loving" left and the Rino crowd. The media told us it would be a gift to Iran, and that getting out of Syria would betray the Kurds. If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it? The difference between Al Qaeda and ISIS is pretty important if you want to actually understand the war in Syria. If you don't care to understand it because you think we should leave regardless, so be it. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:56:08 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And while we’re at talking all strategy and whatnot, why was normalizing WMD use a good strategy? Now, I know you didn’t support Obama’s Syrian policy, which frankly made no sense outside of Ben Rhodes’ head. That said, we should have crushed the Syrian government for its WMD use as a warning to others. We should and did crush IS where we could. That was mostly us, with the Russians impotently bombing empty and not so empty towns. Ok, I absolutely see where you're coming from. I would agree too, if it was pretty clear that Assad's forces were responsible for the chlorine gas attacks. But as I mentioned before, (four at this point) OPCW whistleblowers who took part in the investigation said that the attacks didn't come from the air. They said the devices were planted on the ground and staged. That would mean that Assad's forces were to have snuck into the Sunni rebel areas undetected, planted the devices, and exfil'd without anyone noticing what they were doing. Is that a very probable scenario? I guess it's possible, but unlikely as far as I can tell. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:58:07 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You could have just written "no". Woulda been faster. My disdain for nuance? Like the super-important difference between Al Qaeda and Isis as it relates to the US leaving Syria? Nice. I agree that the Obama Admin caused this, btw. The refugee crisis in Europe too. Hillary and Obama were the primary culprits, as far as I'm concerned. Trump tried to get us out, and the minute he mentioned the word "withdrawal" in regard to Syria he was attacked non-stop by the "peace-loving" left and the Rino crowd. The media told us it would be a gift to Iran, and that getting out of Syria would betray the Kurds. If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sweet straw man bro. Do you want me to explain the actual history of the Syrian Civil War to you so you can sound a little less ignorant, or are you asking where we should go from here? The first would take quite a bit of time; time which would probably be wasted given your disdain for nuance. As for the second, I don't know that there is a right way to proceed; the shit show Obama left behind has only bad options. You could have just written "no". Woulda been faster. My disdain for nuance? Like the super-important difference between Al Qaeda and Isis as it relates to the US leaving Syria? Nice. I agree that the Obama Admin caused this, btw. The refugee crisis in Europe too. Hillary and Obama were the primary culprits, as far as I'm concerned. Trump tried to get us out, and the minute he mentioned the word "withdrawal" in regard to Syria he was attacked non-stop by the "peace-loving" left and the Rino crowd. The media told us it would be a gift to Iran, and that getting out of Syria would betray the Kurds. If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it? "If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it?" "Because... it's too complicated for me to explain."  It's so complicated that it's obvious no one is gonna be a big, clear winner. It's also obvious that none of the players can resist involvement. So the best play is to minimize your own involvement while drawing in as many resources of your dance partners as you can. Wear them down until something fundamental changes the underlying dynamic and makes a victory or withdrawal more desirable. Which is basically what Trump did; a low level on-going presence to make Spetznas' task more difficult, prevent sizeable collaborations against us from gaining momentum, and the infrequent airstrike on more prominent targets as they appear. But not enough to actually conflagrate the conflict. Low simmer. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 3:58:52 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The difference between Al Qaeda and ISIS is pretty important if you want to actually understand the war in Syria. If you don't care to understand it because you think we should leave regardless, so be it. Was Iran "testing" Biden (well testing his puppet masters) when bombing Iraqi sites recently? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:00:43 PM EDT
[#24]
Probably been said already, but this was likely the reason they wanted FJB to give up his ability to use nukes.
He's a drooling pile of feces. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:04:16 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it?" "Because... it's too complicated for me to explain." It's so complicated that it's obvious no one is gonna be a big, clear winner. It's also obvious that none of the players can resist involvement. So the best play is to minimize your own involvement while drawing in as many resources of your dance partners as you can. Wear them down until something fundamental changes the underlying dynamic and makes a victory or withdrawal more desirable. Which is basically what Trump did; a low level on-going presence to make Spetznas' task more difficult, prevent sizeable collaborations against us from gaining momentum, and the infrequent airstrike on more prominent targets as they appear. But not enough to actually conflagrate the conflict. Low simmer. I also never hear the "experts" comment on whether dumbass Biden's policy of making us FAR more dependent on foreign oil is going to result in more unrest in the ME? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:05:47 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you think we are bombing Iran backed rebels in Syria? You mean Iraqi Shia militias that have the support of the majority of Iraqis and whose goal it is to remove the Sunni fundamentalists from their country? Again, I don't really know. If I was to guess though I'd say that there are folks with sway in Washington that don't want the Sunni radicals destroyed completely, but do want them constrained to areas where they're useful. That when the Shia militias (that may or may not be working with the Syrian government) get too close to destroying the ability of the Sunni headchoppers to conduct their operations, which are focused on overthrowing Assad, then the western interests get nervous and push back on them. Assad may be a bad guy, but why the focus on replacing him with a far worse and more hateful group of crazies? That just a guess. I wish I had accurate information on this, but I've not seen it. It sucks that it's difficult to talk about this stuff here. I am not Mr. Certain about all of this. I just can't help but have a different read of it that the MSM keeps telling us. Sort of similar to our last election, their assessment of Trump, their assessment of us gun owners, etc. Why would the MSM be trustworthy on Syria, but nothing else? It just doesn't make sense to me. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:06:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Any Syrian retaliation against American troops is fully deserved and i won't lose a second of sleep over it |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:07:40 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol. "I ain't got no time for learnin about them different groups, and if you do you're probably an Ilhan Omar fan". If you think being ignorant is a virtue, then keep on keeping on I guess. Where do the SDF and TFSA fall in your expert analysis? A handful of Kurds and foreign fighters (mercs) many who fought in Libya and other places now under Turkish command and control. They aren’t moderates...in fact there are reports by the SDF of former ISIS (Daesh) fighters well established within the ranks of TFSA. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:11:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You mean Iraqi Shia militias that have the support of the majority of Iraqis and whose goal it is to remove the Sunni fundamentalists from their country? Again, I don't really know. If I was to guess though I'd say that there are folks with sway in Washington that don't want the Sunni radicals destroyed completely, but do want them constrained to areas where they're useful. That when the Shia militias (that may or may not be working with the Syrian government) get too close to destroying the ability of the Sunni headchoppers to conduct their operations, which are focused on overthrowing Assad, then the western interests get nervous and push back on them. Assad may be a bad guy, but why the focus on replacing him with a far worse and more hateful group of crazies? That just a guess. I wish I had accurate information on this, but I've not seen it. It sucks that it's difficult to talk about this stuff here. I am not Mr. Certain about all of this. I just can't help but have a different read of it that the MSM keeps telling us. Sort of similar to our last election, their assessment of Trump, their assessment of us gun owners, etc. Why would the MSM be trustworthy on Syria, but nothing else? It just doesn't make sense to me. The Biden administration stated those Iraqi militias were backed by Iran, are they lying? You seem to believe that the targets of this bombing were the good guys? Until we know for sure who these people they bombed were, answering my question is difficult.........and for me, therein lies the rub. I never know what to believe. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:20:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Biden administration stated those Iraqi militias were backed by Iran, are they lying? You seem to believe that the targets of this bombing were the good guys? Until we know for sure who these people they bombed were, answering my question is difficult.........and for me, therein lies the rub. I never know what to believe. The Iraqi government is basically an Iranian puppet government. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:20:29 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I absolutely see where you're coming from. I would agree too, if it was pretty clear that Assad's forces were responsible for the chlorine gas attacks. But as I mentioned before, (four at this point) OPCW whistleblowers who took part in the investigation said that the attacks didn't come from the air. They said the devices were planted on the ground and staged. That would mean that Assad's forces were to have snuck into the Sunni rebel areas undetected, planted the devices, and exfil'd without anyone noticing what they were doing. Is that a very probable scenario? I guess it's possible, but unlikely as far as I can tell. "Didn't come from the air." I'd love to know how they determined that. Of course, even that standard has shifted over time. So, the Assad government first denies ANY chemical weapons possession, then ADMITS and surrenders at least a portion of its stockpile for destruction, and we're now supposed to take word of Assad that it was all a staged event? Color me unconvinced. I mean, I don't know if even legally such an act would be a prima facie war crime. Sure, some Euroleftie will say it is, but really, is it? The Syrian government has frankly deftly used the tools its got, be they jihadis they had on cold storage from killing Americans in Iraq, to Chem weapons, to just lucking into as helpless an opponent as the Obama Adminstration. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:22:13 PM EDT
[#32]
1. I'm not convinced we need to be in Syria
2. But since we are, I have no problem with retaliation against attacks on our troops 3. The true hilarity is the hypocrisy from the left over this.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:23:05 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Biden administration stated those Iraqi militias were backed by Iran, are they lying? You seem to believe that the targets of this bombing were the good guys? Until we know for sure who these people they bombed were, answering my question is difficult.........and for me, therein lies the rub. I never know what to believe. I'm definitely NOT saying that. Moktada Al-Sadr comes to mind. I have no love for Shia militia members, or any of these folks. What I do like is truth. I love our country. And I want my government to be straight with us in regard to how our tax dollars are spent, and how young people are utilized in the military and what the goals are. I see China as a real threat. I fail to see an equal threat coming from Russia, Iran, or Syria at this time. That's why this bothers me so much. In my opinion, we should be cutting off China from any US dollars, intellectual property, intelligence gathering ability, and dealing with the sharp but necessary pain that will cause. I am fucking PISSED about Covid, and am disgusted that China seems to be getting away with what they've done to us. If anything, they've been emboldened and enriched by what's transpired. Back to your question. These militias probably ARE backed by the Iranians. They're all Shia, after all. That's why Iraq is now under far more Iranian influence than before we overthrew Saddam. But I wonder if the Iranian goal of ridding the region of radical Sunni fundamentalists isn't also in our interest. I feel that it is. Does that mean I support the government of Iran in any way, shape, or form. Hell no, I do not. I will say I've met a lot of Persians in my life, and they have all been hard working, familiy-oriented, grateful to be in the US, and intelligent. The government in Iran likely doesn't reflect the feelings of the majority of Iranians. We could say the same about Biden. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:24:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Iraqi government is basically an Iranian puppet government. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The Biden administration stated those Iraqi militias were backed by Iran, are they lying? You seem to believe that the targets of this bombing were the good guys? Until we know for sure who these people they bombed were, answering my question is difficult.........and for me, therein lies the rub. I never know what to believe. The Iraqi government is basically an Iranian puppet government. I have heard people say that and others vehemently disagreeing. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:27:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Didn't come from the air." I'd love to know how they determined that. Of course, even that standard has shifted over time. So, the Assad government first denies ANY chemical weapons possession, then ADMITS and surrenders at least a portion of its stockpile for destruction, and we're now supposed to take word of Assad that it was all a staged event? Color me unconvinced. I mean, I don't know if even legally such an act would be a prima facie war crime. Sure, some Euroleftie will say it is, but really, is it? The Syrian government has frankly deftly used the tools its got, be they jihadis they had on cold storage from killing Americans in Iraq, to Chem weapons, to just lucking into as helpless an opponent as the Obama Adminstration. I understand. My opinion is partially on the findings in this document. I'd be interested in your opinion on it. https://wikileaks.org/opcw-douma/document/20190227-Engineering-assessment-of-two-cylinders-observed-at-the-Douma-incident/20190227-Engineering-assessment-of-two-cylinders-observed-at-the-Douma-incident.pdf |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:30:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Interesting how suddenly so many in GD started sounding like the anti-war progressive types. When Obama was being weak, or Trump was being strong, a different tone was often sounded. I wonder how many are just going mindlessly with the flow. wrong. most of us just woke up to the fact the MIC is a big problem and doesnt not have the best interest of the common man in mind. try the red pill next time. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:31:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm definitely NOT saying that. Moktada Al-Sadr comes to mind. I have no love for Shia militia members, or any of these folks. What I do like is truth. I love our country. And I want my government to be straight with us in regard to how our tax dollars are spent, and how young people are utilized in the military and what the goals are. I see China as a real threat. I fail to see an equal threat coming from Russia, Iran, or Syria at this time. That's why this bothers me so much. In my opinion, we should be cutting off China from any US dollars, intellectual property, intelligence gathering ability, and dealing with the sharp but necessary pain that will cause. I am fucking PISSED about Covid, and am disgusted that China seems to be getting away with what they've done to us. If anything, they've been emboldened and enriched by what's transpired. Back to your question. These militias probably ARE backed by the Iranians. They're all Shia, after all. That's why Iraq is now under far more Iranian influence than before we overthrew Saddam. But I wonder if the Iranian goal of ridding the region of radical Sunni fundamentalists isn't also in our interest. I feel that it is. Does that mean I support the government of Iran in any way, shape, or form. Hell no, I do not. I will say I've met a lot of Persians in my life, and they have all been hard working, familiy-oriented, grateful to be in the US, and intelligent. The government in Iran likely doesn't reflect the feelings of the majority of Iranians. We could say the same about Biden. Fair enough......to put it bluntly I have no idea if the bolded part is correct or if it even matters in the end because there ALWAYS seems to be a new extremist group that rises out of the ashes of any previous extremist group that went "extinct" in the Middle East. One falls by the wayside and immediately another one ALWAYS crops up it to replace it it seems to me. It is a quagmire that I have ended up believing is best left to them to sort out and for us to use military force only when absolutely necessary. Now that dumbass Biden will make us more energy dependent on foreign oil that "absolutely necessary" use of military force is now more likely and maybe that is what the democrats and RINO's wanted all along. And one of the reasons they hated Trump. Yes, I believe the democrats and RINO's are that selfish and insane. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:34:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, no shit. Anyone who thinks he can summarize the Syrian insurgency in less than 2 pages, 8 point font single spaced is laughable ill informed. Sadly, anyone in DC eyes glaze over past 140 characters. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:34:46 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1. I'm not convinced we need to be in Syria 2. But since we are, I have no problem with retaliation against attacks on our troops arfcom commandos get red in the face talking about how if the UN troops are brought on domestic soil for civil unrest they're going to use the blue helmets as target practice USA attacks a nation halfway across the world that poses zero threat to American citizens and said foreign nation retaliates "How dare those evil terrorists attack hostile foreign forces" some of you guys might want to reevaluate your brain function |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:38:57 PM EDT
[#40]
It's not really being pro-war. It's just pro-instability designed to justify mass immigration into Europe.
The elite in Western society believe that the massive population decline is best remedied by mass immigration from high birth rate nations. The elites want to continue or even grow the size of the labor force to prevent an increase in labor costs. The elites want a large population of consumers to purchase the goods and services their companies provide. Syria gives them the perfect justification to allow mass immigration and brand anyone in opposition to it as either heartless or a racist. So, the elites will continue funding and lobbying politicians throughout the West to continue the never ending instability in Syria. That is why there are no clear objectives and no clear path to victory whatsoever presented. It's just chaos now and chaos forever or as long as the elite deem necessary to bolster the population of Western nations with immigrants. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:40:13 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: arfcom commandos get red in the face talking about how if the UN troops are brought on domestic soil for civil unrest they're going to use the blue helmets as target practice USA attacks a nation halfway across the world that poses zero threat to American citizens and said foreign nation retaliates "How dare those evil terrorists attack hostile foreign forces" some of you guys might want to reevaluate your brain function Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 1. I'm not convinced we need to be in Syria 2. But since we are, I have no problem with retaliation against attacks on our troops arfcom commandos get red in the face talking about how if the UN troops are brought on domestic soil for civil unrest they're going to use the blue helmets as target practice USA attacks a nation halfway across the world that poses zero threat to American citizens and said foreign nation retaliates "How dare those evil terrorists attack hostile foreign forces" some of you guys might want to reevaluate your brain function See my point #1. I'm still not going to lose any sleep over smoking some jihadists... I don't really blame them for being pissed at us either, but we also can't just roll over and let them attack our guys. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:46:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't really blame them for being pissed at us either, but we also can't just roll over and let them attack our guys. 1.) go places we shouldn't be and piss the people off who live there 2.) "oh no we attacked them but now they're being mean and our boys who are unjustly in someone elses country are getting attacked i guess we have no choice but to keep escalating" American foreign policy 101 |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:49:10 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it?" "Because... it's too complicated for me to explain." It's so complicated that it's obvious no one is gonna be a big, clear winner. It's also obvious that none of the players can resist involvement. So the best play is to minimize your own involvement while drawing in as many resources of your dance partners as you can. Wear them down until something fundamental changes the underlying dynamic and makes a victory or withdrawal more desirable. Which is basically what Trump did; a low level on-going presence to make Spetznas' task more difficult, prevent sizeable collaborations against us from gaining momentum, and the infrequent airstrike on more prominent targets as they appear. But not enough to actually conflagrate the conflict. Low simmer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sweet straw man bro. Do you want me to explain the actual history of the Syrian Civil War to you so you can sound a little less ignorant, or are you asking where we should go from here? The first would take quite a bit of time; time which would probably be wasted given your disdain for nuance. As for the second, I don't know that there is a right way to proceed; the shit show Obama left behind has only bad options. You could have just written "no". Woulda been faster. My disdain for nuance? Like the super-important difference between Al Qaeda and Isis as it relates to the US leaving Syria? Nice. I agree that the Obama Admin caused this, btw. The refugee crisis in Europe too. Hillary and Obama were the primary culprits, as far as I'm concerned. Trump tried to get us out, and the minute he mentioned the word "withdrawal" in regard to Syria he was attacked non-stop by the "peace-loving" left and the Rino crowd. The media told us it would be a gift to Iran, and that getting out of Syria would betray the Kurds. If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it? "If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it?" "Because... it's too complicated for me to explain." It's so complicated that it's obvious no one is gonna be a big, clear winner. It's also obvious that none of the players can resist involvement. So the best play is to minimize your own involvement while drawing in as many resources of your dance partners as you can. Wear them down until something fundamental changes the underlying dynamic and makes a victory or withdrawal more desirable. Which is basically what Trump did; a low level on-going presence to make Spetznas' task more difficult, prevent sizeable collaborations against us from gaining momentum, and the infrequent airstrike on more prominent targets as they appear. But not enough to actually conflagrate the conflict. Low simmer. Good post Again, and again, and again "If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it?" |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:52:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I absolutely see where you're coming from. I would agree too, if it was pretty clear that Assad's forces were responsible for the chlorine gas attacks. But as I mentioned before, (four at this point) OPCW whistleblowers who took part in the investigation said that the attacks didn't come from the air. They said the devices were planted on the ground and staged. That would mean that Assad's forces were to have snuck into the Sunni rebel areas undetected, planted the devices, and exfil'd without anyone noticing what they were doing. Is that a very probable scenario? I guess it's possible, but unlikely as far as I can tell. Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, I absolutely see where you're coming from. I would agree too, if it was pretty clear that Assad's forces were responsible for the chlorine gas attacks. But as I mentioned before, (four at this point) OPCW whistleblowers who took part in the investigation said that the attacks didn't come from the air. They said the devices were planted on the ground and staged. That would mean that Assad's forces were to have snuck into the Sunni rebel areas undetected, planted the devices, and exfil'd without anyone noticing what they were doing. Is that a very probable scenario? I guess it's possible, but unlikely as far as I can tell. Ian Henderson assumed that the cylinders were dropped from more than 500m in the air for essentially no reason. His report, which was not solicited by the OPCW, is therefore a joke. Even if it wasn't a joke, it would say nothing about the many other chemical attacks done by Assad's forces. Quoted: "If this is worth the US pouring billions of dollars and young people's lives into, why is it that folks have such a hard time explaining why it's worth it?" "Because... it's too complicated for me to explain." Sweet straw man bro. Quoted: You mean Iraqi Shia militias that have the support of the majority of Iraqis and whose goal it is to remove the Sunni fundamentalists from their country? Again, I don't really know. If I was to guess though I'd say that there are folks with sway in Washington that don't want the Sunni radicals destroyed completely, but do want them constrained to areas where they're useful. That when the Shia militias (that may or may not be working with the Syrian government) get too close to destroying the ability of the Sunni headchoppers to conduct their operations, which are focused on overthrowing Assad, then the western interests get nervous and push back on them. Assad may be a bad guy, but why the focus on replacing him with a far worse and more hateful group of crazies? That just a guess. I wish I had accurate information on this, but I've not seen it. It sucks that it's difficult to talk about this stuff here. I am not Mr. Certain about all of this. I just can't help but have a different read of it that the MSM keeps telling us. Sort of similar to our last election, their assessment of Trump, their assessment of us gun owners, etc. Why would the MSM be trustworthy on Syria, but nothing else? It just doesn't make sense to me. Saying that SMGs have the support of the majority of Iraqis is about as accurate as your version of events in Syria. You know that Shia are only about 60% of Iraqis, right? And that not all of them support SMGs? Quoted: A handful of Kurds and foreign fighters (mercs) many who fought in Libya and other places now under Turkish command and control. They aren’t moderates...in fact there are reports by the SDF of former ISIS (Daesh) fighters well established within the ranks of TFSA. How can you possibly square the fact that the TFSA contains a good number of jihadists with your earlier statement? Quoted: Was Iran "testing" Biden (well testing his puppet masters) when bombing Iraqi sites recently? That is the obvious conclusion. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 4:54:52 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well just yesterday Russia was bombing Obamas crew, so yeah. The military industrial complex isn't going to stand for another 4 years of de-escalation Huh? What part don't you understand specifically? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 5:06:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm definitely NOT saying that. Moktada Al-Sadr comes to mind. I have no love for Shia militia members, or any of these folks. What I do like is truth. I love our country. And I want my government to be straight with us in regard to how our tax dollars are spent, and how young people are utilized in the military and what the goals are. I see China as a real threat. I fail to see an equal threat coming from Russia, Iran, or Syria at this time. That's why this bothers me so much. In my opinion, we should be cutting off China from any US dollars, intellectual property, intelligence gathering ability, and dealing with the sharp but necessary pain that will cause. I am fucking PISSED about Covid, and am disgusted that China seems to be getting away with what they've done to us. If anything, they've been emboldened and enriched by what's transpired. Back to your question. These militias probably ARE backed by the Iranians. They're all Shia, after all. That's why Iraq is now under far more Iranian influence than before we overthrew Saddam. But I wonder if the Iranian goal of ridding the region of radical Sunni fundamentalists isn't also in our interest. I feel that it is. Does that mean I support the government of Iran in any way, shape, or form. Hell no, I do not. I will say I've met a lot of Persians in my life, and they have all been hard working, familiy-oriented, grateful to be in the US, and intelligent. The government in Iran likely doesn't reflect the feelings of the majority of Iranians. We could say the same about Biden. Then it should piss you off that the Sunni Salafists that the Democrats love so much are also heavily politically supported by China... |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 5:13:15 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How can you possibly square the fact that the TFSA contains a good number of jihadists with your earlier statement? That we don’t need to be there. If the Turks want to proxy jihadists, their business, we don’t need to participate. I personally think the Turks under Erdogan are jihadists. Erdogan himself, however, just wants the land grab. Why do you think I use the term “allies” in those quotations? |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 5:17:15 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got no problems with taking out Iranians. I'm also convinced that 99% of folks in GD have no idea what a neocon is. Thread title is a case in point. 
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Posted: 2/26/2021 5:26:18 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ian Henderson assumed that the cylinders were dropped from more than 500m in the air for essentially no reason. His report, which was not solicited by the OPCW, is therefore a joke. Even if it wasn't a joke, it would say nothing about the many other chemical attacks done by Assad's forces. Hmmm. Only it wasn't just Henderson, was it? https://thegrayzone.com/2020/12/07/opcw-executives-whistleblower-syria-leaks/ Funny, isn't it. The same people perpetuating the "Russia! Russia! Russia!" hoax upon the world are the EXACT same people who want you to believe that Assad gassed his own people and that our intervention in Syria is a critical component of our foreign policy. The Lincoln Project had invading Syria as one of it's most important goals. Remember those lying pedophile fucks? Yeah, they agree with you 100% about Syria. They are also the ones who took a ton of left wing money to defeat Trump, who I guess stupidly wanted us out of Syria. I know, I'm super dumb. Your thus-far unsubstantiated arguments in favor of a never-ending war are just too complex for me. I guess I'll just have to trust you that you're right. Because that works out so well for us historically, and stuff. |
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Posted: 2/26/2021 5:31:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 1.) go places we shouldn't be and piss the people off who live there 2.) "oh no we attacked them but now they're being mean and our boys who are unjustly in someone elses country are getting attacked i guess we have no choice but to keep escalating" American foreign policy 101 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I don't really blame them for being pissed at us either, but we also can't just roll over and let them attack our guys. 1.) go places we shouldn't be and piss the people off who live there 2.) "oh no we attacked them but now they're being mean and our boys who are unjustly in someone elses country are getting attacked i guess we have no choice but to keep escalating" American foreign policy 101 So we seem to be on the same page that we should probably bring those guys in Syria home. Since Biden won't allow that to happen, we need to defend them. I'm not sure why you're after me about this, I'm sure you don't think those guys should be there undefended. |
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