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Posted: 4/18/2021 9:57:57 PM EDT
So a buddy of mine called and said hey do you want to do some shooting today going to get the guys together and I'm like hell yes!

We had a wide variety of weapons. Lots of suppressors, some short-barreled rifles, some 308 rifles, a Springfield trapdoor carbine, a Sharps rifle and a 1861 reproduction Springfield musket.

So toward the end of the day one of my buddies pulled out a old Kevlar insert from an old vest that he had. He wanted to see what it would stop.

It was manufactured in January of 2004. Sorry I didn't get any pictures of the vest before we shot it.

So he hung it up on a target stand at 25 yards.

I said hey let me shoot it with my Springfield musket. So I loaded up a 500gr Minié Ball, over 60grs of 2f black powder.

This is what we recovered from it. It did stop it but it ripped it free from the target stand.







You can see the outline of the fibers when it captured the Minié Ball.

We shot it with the 58 caliber, 9mm, 45-70 out of a Trapdoor carbine and with 00 buck.

It was a fun day LOL
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:20:41 PM EDT
Please tell of the reloads for the Sharps
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:25:59 PM EDT
Did the vest stop everything?
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:26:17 PM EDT
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Please tell of the reloads for the Sharps
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405 grain bullet and I'm using smokeless powder, 25 to 30 grains of Shooters World Buffalo powder.

Both powder charges work great with the 405 grain bullet
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:27:06 PM EDT
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Did the vest stop everything?
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Shockingly it did.

I wouldn't want to be wearing it when I was hit by what we shot at it but it did stop every caliber that we shot.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 10:32:06 PM EDT
Very cool, OP.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:01:13 PM EDT
The vest may have stopped everything. But the big stuff would have caved in a chest cavity all the way to dead
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:12:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:18:00 PM EDT
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The vest may have stopped everything. But the big stuff would have caved in a chest cavity all the way to dead
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Guaranteed...no doubt
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:34:47 PM EDT
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Guaranteed...no doubt
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Quoted:
The vest may have stopped everything. But the big stuff would have caved in a chest cavity all the way to dead



Guaranteed...no doubt



That’s where steel would help.
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:38:56 PM EDT
What velocity does a Springfield musket launch a minie ball ?
Link Posted: 4/18/2021 11:57:03 PM EDT
Ow, Ow, Ow, Ow, Ow!
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 4:23:27 AM EDT
A very small percentage of officers privately purchased body armor during the Civil War to wear under their uniforms, and from what I recall, it actually did stop the bullets much of the time.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 4:50:33 AM EDT
Cool.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 5:44:55 AM EDT
It'll stop it like shown it's just anything on the back side is turned to the consistency of oatmeal and Jello.

It's a very valid reason to own large bore hand cannons and rifles.

Won't penetrate but they ain't walking it off either.

It will make the rest re-evaluate their dicissions made that day.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 5:58:17 AM EDT
Neat.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 6:02:39 AM EDT
Did you measure the diameter of the Mini round?  That looks like it's close to an inch!  Ouch!

ROCK6
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 6:17:53 AM EDT
Cool.

Assuming vest performs very differently hanging with no backer vs. with something behind it.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 6:29:51 AM EDT
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What velocity does a Springfield musket launch a minie ball ?
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1000 to 1200.

I have not yet chronoed it.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 6:30:46 AM EDT
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Quoted:
Did you measure the diameter of the Mini round?  That looks like it's close to an inch!  Ouch!

ROCK6
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@ROCK6

Good idea! I will today
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 6:31:06 AM EDT
Springfield Trapdoor rifles will fire a 405g minie ball at around 1,350 fps, with 1,638 ft/lbs or energy.  Compare that to a 1oz  (437g) 12 gauge slug at around 1,550 fps, and 2,331 ft/lbs of energy. A level IIIA vest is rated to stop a 12 gauge slug, so it isn’t surprising it stopped the 500g minie ball which would be going slower that 1,350 fps (unless it was a hot load).  

In vest penetration, it isn’t projectile size or energy but rather velocity that penetrates.  5.56 NATO - a 55g .22 caliber bullet at 3,250 fps (1290 fpe), will zip right through a IIIA vest.  Surprisingly, a 20g 17HMR round at 2,375 fps (250 fpe) will also zip right through a IIIA vest.  Around 2,100 fps seems to be the velocity at which a projectile will defeat soft body armor.  Projectile design and composition also are a factor, but not as much as velocity.  

As noted above, blunt trauma is a bitch.  A vest may stop a heavy projectile, but you are going to feel it.  If it hits the right place it could be lethal.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 10:33:56 AM EDT
@ROCK6

Measures out to 1.029...
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 11:03:14 AM EDT
Now try a Whitworth rifle.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 11:07:45 AM EDT
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@ROCK6

Measures out to 1.029...
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Thanks! That's a freaking large chunk of expanded lead!  Double ouch!

ROCK6
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 11:09:13 AM EDT
Pics of vest?
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 11:12:14 AM EDT
It would totally suck to be on the receiving end of that, with or without the vest.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 11:18:40 AM EDT
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Pics of vest?
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I'll see if the guy that brought it still has it and I'll get some pictures I didn't take any pictures of the vest unfortunately
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 11:20:51 AM EDT
Makes me want to buy some trauma pads.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 10:16:02 PM EDT
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1000 to 1200.

I have not yet chronoed it.
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IIRC, it's under 1,000 fps with the usual 65-grain charge.
Link Posted: 4/19/2021 10:36:09 PM EDT
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The vest may have stopped everything. But the big stuff would have caved in a chest cavity all the way to dead
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I can tell you I've chased many officers hit in the vest into my ambulance. Normally it was near impossible to get one in there.
Speed overcomes vests. Soft will give with the projectile. I know people here will argue that the round doesn't carry enough energy to make a difference or cause injury, and in a plate that might have some validity, but not soft armor.
I would bet those tested would make quite an impression on the wearer. Not too sure it would save them, but thy may at least have a chance.
A 9mm will leave a nasty bruise and some fractured ribs in soft armor if it hits them, along with other soft tissue injuries, so imagine the difference between that and the 45/70 or even the 500 grain minie ball.
The difference in 300 ft-lb and 2800+. Quite substantial. Like it or not and what ever you may think it does, energy moves things, drives things and breaks things.
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 8:49:32 AM EDT
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Quoted:


IIRC, it's under 1,000 fps with the usual 65-grain charge.
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1000 to 1200.

I have not yet chronoed it.


IIRC, it's under 1,000 fps with the usual 65-grain charge.


And you could be right I'm just going with what I've read. I have not officially chronoed it
Link Posted: 4/20/2021 9:11:00 AM EDT
Larger diameter projectiles are actually easier for soft body armor to stop. The greater surface area allows the energy of the round to be dissipated over more of the panel  
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