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Posted: 1/13/2021 3:07:29 PM EST
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/01/13/usmc-suppressor-roll-out/




TFB has long followed the progress of the US Marine Corps effort to field suppressors across the board. At the end of December 2020, the Corps finally announced that they had begun the process of fielding thousands of rifle caliber suppressors to Marines for use with the M27, M38, M4 and M4A1 rifles and carbines.

Major Mike Brisker, weapons product manager in Marine Corps Systems Command (MCSC)’s Program Manager for Infantry Weapons, said “We’ve never fielded suppressors at this scale, this fielding is a big moment for the Marine Corps.”

The USMC’s interest in suppressing every Marine’s weapon began in 2015-16, with a series of experimentations at a 2016 “Sea Dragon” event and ramped up in 2017-18 with extensive testing including entire battalions being issued with suppressors. In 2018 the USMC announced that it would begin issuing the M27 as its combat rifle in place of the M4/M4A1 carbine.




An initial request for information was launched in August 2017 seeking an off-the-shelf suppressor, a number were tested and in July 2020 it was announced that Knight’s Armament Company’s NT4 had been selected. KAC were awarded a $25,652,000 contract in October 2020 for an undisclosed number of suppressors. We do know, however, the USMC plans to procure 25,853, 5.56mm Small Arms Suppressors for issue to the Corps’ close combat forces.

The USMC described the new ‘small arms suppressors’ as being “designed to reduce a weapon’s noise, flash and recoil. They are also time-efficient, as attachment and detachment only takes a few seconds. The mass fielding of the suppressors, and their myriad benefits, represents a monumental moment for the Marine Corps.”




“The positive feedback from that experiment [in 2016] was the primary driving force behind procuring suppressors,” said Brisker. “We’ve had a few limited user experiments with various units since that time, and all of those events generated positive reviews of the capability.”

In 2020 Program Manager for Infantry Weapons procured about 6,700 suppressors through the Defense Logistics Agency’s Tailored Logistic Program and has acquired a further 7,000 the first delivery order upon the contract award to KAC.

CWO4 David Tomlinson, MCSC’s infantry weapons officer, emphasized the importance of suppressors in exchanging information during battle, explaining that “the most important thing the suppressor does is allow for better inter-squad, inter-platoon communication. It allows the operators to communicate laterally up and down the line during a fire fight.”




Tomlinson notes that “As I travel and brief units, this capability has generated the most interest—from lance corporals to colonels,. There has been an overwhelming excitement to receiving the suppressors, which we anticipate will serve as an effective capability for the warfighter.”

The Corps’ goal is to field approximately 30,000 suppressors by fiscal year 2023. The US Army, while not yet fielding suppressors to its close combat forces, has also embraced the suppressor and required that its Next Generation Squad Weapons will be equipped with suppressors as standard.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:09:16 PM EST
About fucking time.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:10:28 PM EST
This is truly historical.

The USMC adopting something that will make Marines LESS loud.  Unprecedented.

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:10:52 PM EST
NT4 is old tech isn't it?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:11:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By FALKommando:
About fucking time.
View Quote


Say again?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:12:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Knightzone:
NT4 is old tech isn't it?
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Yes, but they're built likes tanks and already have a pedigree of use.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:12:32 PM EST
Does this mean the ATF is caught up on the paperwork backlog?  
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:14:32 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 3:16:51 PM EST by Dc204]
I just feel bad for that poor fucker humping that AT-4.  The look on his face tells me he is thoroughly satisfied with his life choices.  “ join the Corps they said, it’ll be fun they said“  

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:15:58 PM EST
So "in common usage" soon
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:16:57 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Bogie:
So "in common usage" soon
View Quote


The M16A4 was always "coming soon".
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:17:21 PM EST
Maybe the tinnitus won't be as severe among vets in the future.

Maybe eventually we can leverage that towards suppressor deregulation some day.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:17:28 PM EST
Long live the corn cob
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:19:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Dc204:
I just feel bad for that poor fucker humping that AT-4.  The look on his face tells me he is thoroughly satisfied with his life choices.  “ join the Corps they said, it’ll be fun they said“  

View Quote

AT4 AND the 203. They probably gave him half a dozen batteries for the radios too.

I bet that as soon as they reach 100% fielding of the suppressor, they will adopt the the 6.8MM round...
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:20:43 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Hatari:
Does this mean the ATF is caught up on the paperwork backlog?  
View Quote



no


9 more months


Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:23:09 PM EST
that will save millions of ear drums...and prevent hearing loss...
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:23:40 PM EST
I always heard how cumbersome and unworkable 20 inch barrel guns for for vehicles and house to house.  Now we're fielding something even longer.

What's the idea, do they take it off whenever they do house to house?  That seems like the best time to have it.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:24:41 PM EST
That dude is about the rip the sight off his AT4
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:27:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:29:20 PM EST
Yeah, my hearing is fucked from shooting indoors no hearing pro. But frags and IEDs fucked it way worse.

I guess I don't totally understand why. The gun gets hotter faster, and you'll still be wearing ear pro and still be deaf.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:29:56 PM EST
Lets hope we get some smuggled in anal cavities
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:30:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SkilletsUSMC:
Yeah, my hearing is fucked from shooting indoors no hearing pro. But frags and IEDs fucked it way worse.

I guess I don't totally understand why. The gun gets hotter faster, and you'll still be wearing ear pro and still be deaf.
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Do silencers help with cohesion of the unit?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:33:42 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 3:54:04 PM EST by Alien]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz:
I always heard how cumbersome and unworkable 20 inch barrel guns for for vehicles and house to house.  Now we're fielding something even longer.

What's the idea, do they take it off whenever they do house to house?  That seems like the best time to have it.
View Quote
Didn't the Marines switch to the 16.5" barreled M27 as their standard issue rifle though? I realize that with the suppressor, the M27 is longer than an equivalent rifle with a 20" barrel though. I think the ability to better focus in combat as well mitigating the disability that results from unsuppressed gunfire is more of a benefit than having a slightly shorter barrel, but I'm no expert.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:34:52 PM EST
Does anyone know why they mount the laser on the side instead of the top? I have seen that quite a bit in photos.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:36:20 PM EST
The MEU I deployed with in 19 had them for their M27’s. I shot them every chance I could and they are pretty sweet shooters for an issued weapon.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:36:50 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Alien:
Didn't the Marines switch to the 16.5" barreled M27 as their standard issue rifle though? I realize that with the suppressor, the M27 is longer than an equivalent rifle with a 20" barrel though. I think the ability to better focus in combat as well as the disability that results from unsuppressed gunfire is more of a benefit than having a slightly shorter barrel, but I'm no expert.
View Quote


I'm genuinely curious.  16.5 + this suppressor seems like at least 24 inches long.   10 inches longer than a standard M4.  I wouldn't want to be in a house to house situation with that.  I think I'd rather just have electronic ear muffs.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:37:52 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By blackghost:
Maybe the tinnitus won't be as severe among vets in the future.

Maybe eventually we can leverage that towards suppressor deregulation some day.
View Quote



Hearing Protection Act Reintroduced In 117th Congress

WASHINGTON, D.C. – On January 4th, the first day of the 117th Congress, Rep. Jeff Duncan (R-SC-03) introduced H.R. 95. Known as the Hearing Protection Act (HPA), the primary focus of the bill is to remove suppressors from the National Firearms Act (NFA), making it easier for law-abiding hunters and sportsmen to protect their hearing while at the range or in the field. Rep. Duncan’s legislation also includes several technical amendments that would further clean up existing statute regarding suppressors.



I got a good feeling this time...
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:39:30 PM EST
They will find a way to make them pregnant.....just because.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:40:17 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By GMZ:
The MEU I deployed with in 19 had them for their M27’s. I shot them every chance I could and they are pretty sweet shooters for an issued weapon.
View Quote

Is M27 like an AR-RPK?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:40:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:

AT4 AND the 203. They probably gave him half a dozen batteries for the radios too.

I bet that as soon as they reach 100% fielding of the suppressor, they will adopt the the 6.8MM round...
View Quote


And if you zoom in and look you can actually see the string of snot connecting the roof of his mouth to his tongue. That’s a sign of some serious job satisfaction right there!
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:40:53 PM EST
In for surplus NT4's
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:40:59 PM EST
Does each suppressor comes with a box off crayons?  
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:41:23 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mhpoole:
Does anyone know why they mount the laser on the side instead of the top? I have seen that quite a bit in photos.
View Quote

Because the M203 sights are on top.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:41:43 PM EST
Coming to a Craigsllist near you.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:43:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kbi:



no


9 more months


View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By kbi:
Originally Posted By Hatari:
Does this mean the ATF is caught up on the paperwork backlog?  



no


9 more months




That’s why the article states they hope to have them fielded by 2023
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:44:42 PM EST
Good for them.  Might slightly decrease VA hearing loss claims.  In DoD money, that's chump change anyway, I'd rather spend it there than on suicide helmets like the chicoms.

I assume their going to have to deal with crayons being melted on them, and occasionally extracting one that someone "slipped and fell on in the shower" though.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:48:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By slugcatcher:
Coming to a Craigsllist near you.
View Quote


First thing I thought...  CID/NCIS (or whatever it is in the USMC) is going to be busy as these things are "lost" in the field.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:48:44 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By home_alone1:


That’s why the article states they hope to have them fielded by 2023
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By home_alone1:
Originally Posted By kbi:
Originally Posted By Hatari:
Does this mean the ATF is caught up on the paperwork backlog?  



no


9 more months




That’s why the article states they hope to have them fielded by 2023


@home_alone1

Hatari was hoping his stamp was around the corner



the 30k the marines are getting just got put on the top of the pile

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:49:04 PM EST
I had an KAC's NT4 suppressor issued to me in 2008-2009 in Afghanistan.  

Not that great of performance, but simple, bomb proof and better than the alternative.

Congrats to KAC!
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:49:45 PM EST
Yet no one looked at the broader scope:
“We can’t have weapons of war used by the civilian populace”.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:50:10 PM EST
But will they add suppressors to 240s and M2s?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:50:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 3:51:05 PM EST by daemon734]
I use one on both a 10.5 and a 14.5" gun at work. They are great for reducing signature at night. I usually take it off during the day and throw it on when I'm out after dark.  If I think I'm going to be doing any amount of sustained fire I usually don't use it either, since not only is noise generally not an issue then, but sustained fire causes a lot of mirage in my scope.

You don't always have to use them, they are literally just another tool to use in your toolbox.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:50:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By blackghost:
Maybe the tinnitus won't be as severe among vets in the future.

Maybe eventually we can leverage that towards suppressor deregulation some day.
View Quote

Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:51:18 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KaBar3:

Because the M203 sights are on top.
View Quote


My unit issued the grenade launching red dot sight mounted on the left side.

They insisted on having the PEQs on the right side anyway. When you repositioned it to the top to not have 6" wide rifle it would eventually magically reappear on the right side.

When I checked, the peq manual suggested top mounting, but I think there's some marine document telling us otherwise.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:53:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mhpoole:
Does anyone know why they mount the laser on the side instead of the top? I have seen that quite a bit in photos.
View Quote
Notice the guys who got them mounted on the side have M203s attached? They are putting the laser on the side so they can attach the M203 leaf sight on the top.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:54:17 PM EST
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 3:58:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz:


I'm genuinely curious.  16.5 + this suppressor seems like at least 24 inches long.   10 inches longer than a standard M4.  I wouldn't want to be in a house to house situation with that.  I think I'd rather just have electronic ear muffs.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Tallahasseezz:
Originally Posted By Alien:
Didn't the Marines switch to the 16.5" barreled M27 as their standard issue rifle though? I realize that with the suppressor, the M27 is longer than an equivalent rifle with a 20" barrel though. I think the ability to better focus in combat as well as the disability that results from unsuppressed gunfire is more of a benefit than having a slightly shorter barrel, but I'm no expert.


I'm genuinely curious.  16.5 + this suppressor seems like at least 24 inches long.   10 inches longer than a standard M4.  I wouldn't want to be in a house to house situation with that.  I think I'd rather just have electronic ear muffs.
I think that boils down to risk vs reward. You can always take it off if it's an issue. The Marines aren't CQB specialists like DevGru, Delta, etc. I realize they cleared a lot of houses throughout the recent conflicts, but that isn't the primary role they have. I would have opted for a shorter can myself but I'm not in charge of procurement for the Marines.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:03:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 4:04:04 PM EST by patchouli]
What muzzle devices and do they have to be checked for concentricity (and crush washers eliminated)?


Also, weapons cleaning is going to take way longer now.

Lol
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:05:16 PM EST
Will this require different - subsonic - ammo? Adjustable gas blocks?
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:19:37 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CarlosC:
Will this require different - subsonic - ammo? Adjustable gas blocks?
View Quote

Subsonic 5.56 is the definition of a bad joke.

You don't *have* to use subsonic ammo to get benefits from a suppressor. You just need it to maximize them.
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:24:07 PM EST
Say what?  Too late for me...
Link Posted: 1/13/2021 4:27:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/13/2021 4:27:58 PM EST by chmodx]
I thought DIs yelling in the Marines is what gave hearing damage.
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