Welcome to the circus,

5/3/1 will absolutely make you significantly stronger, it will also take some time. If you've never really weight trained prior to this you are going to experience significant newbie gains, which is awesome. Assuming form is on point and there are no significant physical issues holding you back you can probably add 10% every 4 weeks on 5/3/1 for the first little while. Being on TRT will help, cutting wont, so it may be a wash. Try to figure out the best way to eat about 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight daily, in whatever way meets your diet goals.

The BBB is a great addition, I've forgotten what the variant #2 is, but I've done the version where you set your weight to a percentage of your 1RM and just do 10x5; I've also done the reverse pyramid with the first 2 sets of 10 being in the 70-75% category. Both suck tremendously and if you don't think they are hard... I'm not sure what to tell you but you're more man than I

I've gotten to where I like adding a bit more accessory work to what 5/3/1 offers, stuff like box squats, chains squats, pause squats after my main working set.

I have been lifting weights for years and always done pretty much a home-made bodybuilding-ish bro split. I hadn't done any squatting or deadlifting in years because of lower back / sciatica problems. I did a lot of leg press, extensions, GHD, etc to make up for my perceived inability to squat and deadlift.

What I was actually doing was being a giant pussy, and I eventually decided to nut up and start squatting and deadlifting again. I hired a coach to help me with hip mobility and squat and deadlift form. He helped me a ton and my back / leg pain is gone. I am squatting and deadlifting again, totally pain free now. I still video myself or get my wife to video me on squats and deads to make sure my form stays good, squatting to good depth etc.

All that to say, my squat and deadlift were (embarrassingly) way behind my bench press. And I really never focused too much on flat bench, I did a lot of incline barbell and flat dumbbell.

I started doing 5/3/1 15 weeks ago. Finding this thread had a lot to do with me deciding to get NOV.

When I started these were my calculated 1 rep maxes based on "weight * reps * 0.0333 + weight" as prescribed in the book:

OHP: 180
Bench: 308
Squat: 238
Deadlift: 267

(yeah, backwards as all hell)

Last week (my 15th week on 5/3/1) they were:

OHP: 216
Bench: 351
Squat: 355
Deadlift: 395

So my total, no counting OHP, has gone from 813lbs to 1101bs. And my squat and deadlift are finally bigger than my bench, which has increased significantly as well

I've been charting everything and while the gains have slowed some, the trend is still up.

I'm also eating 3,500 calories with at least 200g protein per day along with creatine.

I would say it's an effective program. I'm going to keep going with it until I really plateau hard, and then I may just reset it and start again. My goal was to get to 1200lbs within a year but I will smash through that in a couple more months I think. New goal is to get to 1400 by next September.

ETA: I have bumped the weight more than the prescribed 10lbs per 4 week cycle a few times because I was ending up with AMRAPS on squats with like 15 reps. I've also only taken 1 deload week, so the cycles have all been 3 weeks.

On OHP, squat, and bench I have done the 5x10 for extra sets.

I've thrown in some extra accessories that I just enjoy doing like dips, barbell curls, dumbbell flys, because I like them and I still like getting a sick pump.

That's kind of the point.  You don't destroy yourself every session.

Do you think AMRAP sets at 85,90 and 95% of your training max (90% of estimated 1rm) aren't hard?

You can follow those with joker sets too, where you add 5-10% more weight and and go again.

The program was designed to be run with different templates each time almost indefinitely, so you slowly accumulate more strength without burning out.

Since you put it that way....

I was looking at mainly the fact that there was only really 1 hard set per body part each workout. I now see the version with joker sets, don't think I will try that yet. It's appealing that there are so many varieties.

I think with the BBB template you don't do the joker or fsl sets, you jump right into your 5x10 work.

Those are hard too, but a different kind of hard, they leave you sore every week.

I did 4 cycles of BBB, but I shouldn't have as I still had faster strength gains left. I still got bigger on it with the volume work, but ultimately stalled with the strength.

I want to try it again in the future, I'm trying to get my squat back up after neglecting it with sore knees for almost a year.

I'm doing greyskull with a bacoff set after the AMRAP, I'm feeling pretty good with it.

531 works very well, but you have to apply it properly. That’s easy to do because there’s so much variability in the template.

Two things to be aware of:  

1. Make sure you completely exhaust your newbie gains by running out a novice linear progression. There’s is no point to running 531 and upping the weight on the bar only once per month when you can be increasing the weight every workout, three times per week.

2. Progress seems slow on 531 because it’s an “advanced” program template. The difference between novice, intermediate, and advanced has nothing to do with how much you lift but how often you can hit PRs. If you hit PRs every workout, you’re a novice. Once a week or every two weeks? You’re into intermediate and more complex programming? Once per month or more? Now you’re looking at periodization or cycling intensity and volume. That’s what you can get out of 531, and you can modify it a lot to suit you.

When I got done LP, I had a a very hard time sticking with intermediate programming because I’m old and the volume kicked my ass. I just could not recover and went nowhere.

531 allows me to keep the numbers going up every month while allowing me to self regulate the volume. When I feel good, I do more. When I feel like shit, I don’t. But that doesn’t apply to the main lifts. I hit those every time.

I use boring but big (ish) and run it like a modified Texas Method or 4-day heavy/light split:

Day 1: heavy squat - light DL
Day 2: heavy bench - light press
Day 3 & 4: reverse 1&2

My light day weights are 77% instead of 50% and I do 5s instead of 10s. Drop volume, but keep up the tonnage.

It works for me:

Cycle 1, week 3, April 2019:
Squat: 260x5
Bench: 275x5
Deads: 350x6
Press: 160x5

Cycle 25, week 3, Jan. 2021:
Squat: 460x2
Bench: 355x2
Deads: 525x2
Press: 205x1

It’s slow but consistent. And that’s good enough for where I am now.  If I were younger, I probably would have run out a full Texas Method or HLM, with sets across instead of a single top set, to squeeze out as much weekly progress as I could get. But I would jump right into some form of 531 as soon as I’d run that program dry.

Newbie DOMS is a mofo. I'm walking like Frankenstein

I appreciate the info. Probably what I should be doing is identify where I am and then ask where I should go from here.

Basically, as mentioned 42y/o, been lifting a bit over a year. Had some early struggles due to injuries and not knowing I had low T. Got that fixed starting back in August, and have seen some decent progress since then. I also did a bit of a "reset" around the same time to fix my form on some exercises. Example, was doing 225#x8 on squat, but fixing my form, I had to drop to 175#x8 and start working back up.

Starting in mid August, I've been doing either a 4-day Upper/Lower split, or a 6-day PPL (same weekly volume, just switched pull exercises into their own day to shorten workouts). Been using an increasing volume each week (basically following renaissance periodization's recommendations).

I've had some progression since August, not on a consistent linear basis, but pretty consistent nonetheless.

My starting #'s through today (2 PR's today, not too bad considering I'm 4 weeks into a cut).

OHP 80#x7 to 110#x8
Bench 155#x8 to 185#x9
Squat 175#x8 to 215#x10
Deadlift 230#x8 295#x6
Chinups 8reps to 14 reps.

The last few months I've been on an easy work schedule, with plenty of free time. In about ten days, that will change and my availability is going to drop. So I'm trying to figure out the right programming for a 4-day a week program that allows me to get in and out of the gym in under 1:15. Also, I don't have machines at my home gym, so I'm going to focus on barbell, dumbbell and chinups.

So with all that in mind, does 531 BBB sound like the right option?

Gitty up cowboy

I've done 531 BBB a few times and I did get stronger but it's not my favorite version. It's a solid program, you should see some size and it's absolutely worth doing.

Have you done 5x5 or 5x3 yet? Those programs usually produce the fastest gains for newish lifters. Always keep them going as long as you can.

Nice progress.

Since you are still relatively new to lifting, I would take full advantage of that along with TRT by not worrying about cutting right now. Get in a reasonable caloric surplus and grow. The more muscle you build the easier it will be to cut later.

5/3/1 will work but you may end up needing to bump more than 10# per cycle like I have, if you feed yourself enough to grow.

How tall are you?

Thanks.  

I've been working out for the last 2+ years, dropping from ~250# to 190# during that time. But only had barbells for a bit over a year. Started TRT mid August @190#, bulked from August to mid-December, gained 20#. Plan is a 6-8 week cut (on week 4, down 8-9#). After I plan on bulking for 5-6 months.

6'2"

What do you want to accomplish?

At your height and weight you have a fuck ton of room to grow in terms of size and strength. You shouldn’t be worried about cutting.

If you’re trying to get strong, restart a NLP and try to add 10 pounds to your primary lifts on every workout. When that doesn’t work anymore, cut it back to 5 pounds. When that doesn’t work anymore, switch to intermediate programming where you’re adding 5 pounds every week instead of every workout.

Run that out for a few months. When that stops working, THEN, monthly progression like 531 will make more sense. Don’t fall back to monthly progression when you can take advantage of daily and then weekly progression.

Eat like a motherfucker through the whole thing. You’ll get big and strong if you do. Worry about cutting later...like after you get your squat and deadlift into some big numbers.

about to run another Cube cycle, this time with a little magic juice.

The biggest single gains I ever had were from Cube, so Imma try it again.

Wish me luck and no injury.

Good luck man.

Injuries blo, and can set you back decades.

Goals? Want to be fit and look better at the pool (which is why I'm cutting, got a family vacation to WDW coming up). Getting a 6-pack is more important to me than 400# deadlift, but I would like to be reasonably strong.

Cut will be over in 4 more weeks at this rate. No intention of going below 190#.

I wish I was getting consistent linear progress each week, but it's not there. At least not across the board. This last meso, I added 1 rep to my bench press. That took 4 weeks. Same time period, I added 10# to my OHP.  Squat and deadlift are progressing linearly, consistent this last meso at 5#/week. Cutting could have an effect, but last meso I was still massing,and had only added 5# to my bench in 4 weeks.

That's why I'm considering 531 in the first place. That and I want something a bit more structured.

531 is not 6-pack and cutting program. It’s a strength and size program.

If you want a 6-pack, you’re better off doing a bodybuilding-style split, working with high volume in the 10-12 rep range with rep progression and isolation work, instead of adding weight to the bar on the big lifts.

But your strength will not go up.

I hurt myself last time I pulled 500, like a dumbass, so this time I solemnly swear not to be a dumbass.

I've run 2 cycles of Cube since August. That shit is awesome.

What kind of TRT are you doing? Injections, gel? If injections what dose of what ester and what frequency? What are your typical free and total test levels on TRT now? And while I'm asking what does the rest of your bloodwork look like?

Assuming your doc wants you in the upper end of normal levels with minimal or no side effects and you are feeling good, you should be making good progress with the weights. You are by no means weak but at your height and weight and current lifts you should be gaining strength consistently (which it sounds like they mostly are, but, it could be better, or you wouldn't have asked ).

I ask because I'm wondering if maybe your TRT program is not optimal.

Also what's does your diet look like?

I know people that have been put on TRT by their doctor, but their program was counterproductive dumb shit like 200mg test cyp, 1 injection per month.

150mg/week Test-C. Prescribed 1x/week. Was an improvement but only got me to around 500 total on my trough.  Don't know what my peak is. I've switched to splitting it into  2x/week, definitely feeling better. Don't know the rest, doc said everything else was "good/ideal".

Diet is good. After losing 60#, I've got a decent handle on where I need calories for cutting/Mtx/gaining. Currently about 2,500 cal/day which is equalling around 2#/week in weight loss at current activity level. About 180-190g protein. When I was massing, I was gaining a bit over 1#/week. Right now, at 200#, I'm about the same leanness as I was at 190# before starting TRT.

I should also mention that I started doing a couch-5k program at the same time I started my diet. Was a bit ambitious. I'm starting week 5 today of that. So I've expected slow or even no progress for Dec/Jan on my lifts. There are trade offs, but I want to run a spartan race this year, so building muscle isn't my only goal.

Plan is to do a deload in the gym this week, (my week starts on Thursday), transition to 531 in the gym, then finish up my cut no later than 2nd week of February before switching back to massing.

I did close to 1/2 hour of stretching and mobility work this evening, when I stood up I felt 20#s lighter and a couple inches taller.

I think I need more of this

I've been trying to stretch every other day, it's harder than lifting, but feels really good when it's done.

Worked some heavy back squats w/ wraps today, much more of a low bar back squat. Ended up hitting 455 for 5 at the top end, about blew a gasket on the 5th rep.

But still, running a 1RM calc that puts my max about where my last PR was, so I havent lost much in pure strength.  

That's badass.

I look forward to when my 1RM is close to your rep-work weight

Progress is fun like that, I caught myself wondering what 6 plates would feel like on my back the other day

In all reality I need to get back to a non-powerlifter type workout schedule, more crossfit type stuff mixed with rucks and my least favorite activity ever... running.

but its a positive move career wise, if I can hack the schoolhouse and the pipeline.

I have found that to avoid injuries, I have to work stretching and mobility as deliberately as I lift.

Casual lifting can get away with casual mobility. Intense lifting requires intense mobility.

Running is fucking awful, I really need to do some.

What’s everyone using for accessories to deadlifts? I’ve kinda stalled out at 475 for 1 and have been stalled right there for a few months now

What happens when you try to go heavier than 475? What's the "failure" point of the lift?

I like deficits and block pulls as accessories, generally heavy weight and low reps. I add some lower weight, higher rep stuff like pullups, shrugs and rows maybe.

Deficit deadlifts and heavy rows seem to help me the most.

Was about to pull the trigger on an echo bike yesterday. OOS

Hit a big milestone and PR today, got 225 on OHP (for 1).

I'm in my 3/3/3 week for OHP and got 180 for 9 on the + set, and decided to go for it. Did 200 for a single first and it went up pretty easy. Gave myself a few minutes then got the 225.

I'm 5'11", ~230lbs

Nice!

Swole!

Need to clean up my garage and start a youtube account and I'll start taking some vids. Wouldn't mind some form critique from you guys from time to time too.

And thanks y'all!

Thats phenomenal

good work

post em up!

there's also a decent Facebook page, something like "Powerlifting Motivation" or something. Some good stuff about form, and how to fix some of it, alot of bullshit too but most of the time the ones who know their shit run off the retards.

Finished a Wendler cycle end of December.  6'3, 288, 40yr old.
DL- 580
SQ- 515
B- 415
OHP- 235

Next six weeks is deadlift 3-4x a week preparing to pull 600 for the first time.  I'm pretty pumped.

Solid numbers for sure

Hitting a 600+ dead was a big rush for me too

Strong AF.

Always been pretty strong, used to powerlift when younger.  Then life, injuries, and general fat-ass-ness got in the way.  Around 2017 I just hit the point where I was tired of it, so started making reasonable goals.


2019 goals:
- get under 320 (I started the year at 348) the right way
- bench 350 raw
- Deadlift 550 (I did not hit that goal in 2019)
- train consistently at least 3x a week
- not feel like a pile of shit


My goals in 2020 were:
- get back under 300 walking around weight
- hit a 400 lb bench with only light wrist wraps (dude i'm old lol).  Did it on my 40th birthday for 2, and then did 405 same day.  Felt great.  
- actually do consistent cardio (I ended up spending the bulk of the year just working the heavy bag and wrestling with my son)
- be as consistent as possible about tracking diet (I still need work here)

Goals for 2021:
- 265 walking around weight
- Keep training for the Husafell stone (hopefully we go in 2022)
- 600 lb deadlift
- 260 lb overhead press.

I write em down, track them, put em on post it notes, have my kids make fun of me if I don't work towards them.  It's been working.  Feel good about myself most of the time.

ETA- all my numbers/ stuff raw.  Never taken a drug, a cycle, T, anything other than a creatine load now and again.  That's been a good source of pride for me.

ETA2- 5/3/1 WILL get you strong as hell.

I've posted about this in the past, but fuck man, buying pants is extremely annoying when you are lifting regularly.

As my ass and thighs grow and my waist shrinks, the only option seems to be buying a huge waist and cinching it down with a belt, otherwise I'm duck walking because they don't make pants with any ass room.

I bought some work pants that are "modern cut" last year. That means skinny jeans basically, they already looked kind of bad, now it's laughable.

Those are solid numbers, remember you're no spring chicken anymore

You need yoga pants